Rock Center
Saddleback Church Pastor Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose Driven Life," talks to Rock Center Special Correspondent Chelsea Clinton about his views regarding love, compassion, acceptance and same-sex marriage.
In this exclusive online excerpt, Warren said that he does not favor the redefinition of marriage. "If you want to use another term, use another term," he told Clinton.
When asked how he felt about civil unions, Warren said, "Civil union might be a term they could use. Yeah, fine. I'm just opposed to redefining marriage."
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Shut up Warren! Marriage has been redefined hundred of times in human history. You are NOT the giver of rights and you dont get to define our relationships. If you're against gay marriage, then dont marry a man. It's that simple.
"Shut up"?? Really? What gives YOU the right to tell someone they can't voice their beliefs and opinions? If YOU have the right to defend gay marriage, then he has the right to take issue with that opinion without being told to shut up. If he told YOU to shut up, you'd have an effing hissy fit!
The point is, marriage is not redefined when gays and lesbians are allowed to marry. I'm a man married to a woman. My marriage is not redefined and I don't refer to it as a different term whether gays are allowed to marry or not. Pastor Warren's concern is a non-concern. His aversion to it being called marriage is nonsense. There is nothing about gays or lesbians marrying which changes his life in any way. He simply wants second-class status assigned to people with a different sexual orientation to his own. No one gets down on one knee and asks, "will you civil union me?" That's absurd. But that's what Pastor Warren wants. If someone wants to call their relationship marriage, what is that to him? Nothing. It's none of his business, so I echo Lyuba's post and ask politely that he shut up.
The point is, marriage is not redefined when gays and lesbians are allowed to marry. I'm a man married to a woman. My marriage is not redefined and I don't refer to it as a different term whether gays are allowed to marry or not. Pastor Warren's concern is a non-concern. His aversion to it being called marriage is nonsense. There is nothing about gays or lesbians marrying which changes his life in any way. He simply wants second-class status assigned to people with a different sexual orientation to his own. No one gets down on one knee and asks, "will you civil union me?" That's absurd. But that's what Pastor Warren wants. If someone wants to call their relationship marriage, what is that to him? Nothing. It's none of his business, so I echo Lyuba's post and ask politely that he shut up.
The point is, Rick Warren thinks that Christians own the word "marriage" (which Christians, Rick? The Catholic Church has different rules for that word than you likely do, for example).
Marriage predates Christianity. It predates Judaism. It exists in cultures that were never influenced by either. As a social contract it belongs to the state, and as a right it belongs to the people, and the state is bound by the constitution to administer that right to the people fairly and without religious bias or preference. In time, this truth will seem as obvious to nearly every American as the statement today that slavery is evil.
@JarrelWoods Since Marriage is defined as the official joining of a man and woman, then the act of adding anything else to it is thereby changing its definition. If the definition were already suited to your liking it would always carry the question of what kind of marriage is this? This means that there would never be an equality in marriage because it would always have to be described as a gay, lesbian, transgender, or straight marriage. That's not really equality. It's always different from the other. As far as how you ask someone to be with you? be creative! Many straight people don't even use the word marry when proposing.
@Nathan, Do Christians own the Male and Female definition of marriage? That's preposterous! It's highly arguable that through out history 99% of ALL cultures have owned, have used, and still use that definition. Does marriage predate these religions? You betcha! but it does not predate God... I understand if you don't believe in God and I respect that... and God's definition is one man with one wife. It really is that simple. I agree that this issue belongs to the state but I still say that marriage is not a right but a privilege. Therefore the constitution really can't do much. But if its legal recognition, benefits, and validity of a life long commitment then perhaps on paper all such unions (strait or gay) should be civil unions. this'll make everyone equally unhappy and leave the definition to the people rather than our governments.
Wonderfully put, Louis...I love when someone can make a point without taking one side or the other, but rather civilly and neutrally. You did a great job. :)
Great
Civil Unions or any other name constitutes second class citizenship. For there to be true equality and acceptance, all loving couples should be allowed to marry. Rights are not bestowed by votes, public opinion or religious organizations. The Constitution guarantees equal protection and marriage needs to be an equal right.
Warren has no evidential basis for what he says, and even less power of reason.
It's fascinating how often the 'redefinition of marriage' argument turns up. It's actually nothing more than a tautology. To say you aren't in favour of gay marriage because it redefines marriage is nothing more than saying you aren't in favour of gay marriage. That statement alone is no justification for anything at all. The granting of rights to those who did not have them is always about redefinition of terms. In the past we have changed the definition of 'person' to include those who were slaves. In the past we have changed the definition of 'voter' to include women. 'Marriage' has and still does mean dozens of different arrangements.
The language of 'civil unions' is very unhelpful. Just see what Warren says: 'might be a term they could use'. The use of the word 'they' indicates prejudice, a dehumanizing separation of gay people from the rest of society. Gay people aren't 'they', they are part of 'we'.
Quit being a liar, Steve. I say liar, because you're clearly smart enough to know what you are saying is not true. The definition of "person" or "voter" has remained unchanged. It is the qualifications for applying those terms which have changed. "Marriage" may have, and still does mean dozens of different arrangements, but it has ALWAYS been a joining of a man and a woman.
We need to take back this argument. Marriage was never defined as only between a man and a woman, it's just that was the only people in our memory getting married. Gays were considered to be heterosexuals who just liked to be perverts or something, why would they want to marry the same sex?
If you were to go back over the last 150 years, and read all the wedding vows, what do you thing they would say about the modern definition of marriage? It had nothing to do with gender and everything to do with commitment and love. It had nothing to do with breeding, that's why there was never any issue with elderly couples, long past their child barring years, marrying.
Finally, even if they ban us from using the word "Married" they can't ban us from taking our vows and considering ourselves married. All they can do is confine us to second class citizenship and not give us the same rights and benefits. They would do this so they can pat themselves on the back and "see, my god must be real, I have more rights than those other people"
Rick Warren is my cousin by marriage (as his wife Kaye is my cousin). When I came out, my entire family cut me off. While they present a very pleasant picture as a family, they are simply bigots. Family is not a word they understand. Marriage is not the property of the relgious, and never has been. We must stand up to this sort of argument and never back down. They (and the rest of the religious bullies) are exactly the reason that my husband and I have moved to Europe.
Pastor Warren makes perfectly sound arguments. Homosexuals first claimed they wanted legal recognition for marriage benefits, taxes and medical decisions. Now they've changed the argument because they crave acceptance and validation. There are millions of Americans that will never accept their lifestyle, so homosexuals' need for acceptance and validation cannot be legislated. That's their mental health issue, not our country's legal issue. Civil unions seems to be a perfectly acceptable compromise.
When the rednecks were opposed to interracial marriage, the problem was not "a mental health issue" with interracial couples. It was a moral problem of the irrational rednecks discriminating against them on no defensible basis whatsoever. This issue is exactly identical. It doesn't matter whether the rednecks ever "accept" homosexuals, just as it didn't (and doesn't) matter if they ever "accept" interracial couples. There is no reason whatsoever that homosexuals or members of different races shouldn't be allowed to marry the people they love, and the rednecks who get "the creeps" about it can go to hell.
How does one compare race...to sexual orientation? Now it's becoming apples and oranges <shaking head>
I am homosexual and I am also a Christian.
My own personal take is that there is Christian marriage and a secular marriage. There are also Muslim marriages, Jewish marriages, Hindi marriages, etc. The differences are in the vows that are taken.
A Christian marriage is between one man and one woman (and does not include a person who has been divorced but there ex is still alive)
However I believe it's the responsibility of the state to allow for a marriage between two people of he same sex. Perhaps a blessing on that union in a ceremony in Church or Christian friends of the couple would be appropriate.
That's the route I would go if I found a partner.
u are definitely not a christian, genesis account of creation says ; he created them both male and female; it was Adam and Eve not Adam and steve!
"I am homosexual and I am also a Christian." No, you're not.
Who died and made you the judge of someone's spirituality?
No one Lyuba- the Bible is the authority of Christianity, and clearly supports Todd's and Zarmai's comments. Stop calling everyone judges just because you don't like their comments. That's so 5th grade on the playground.
Wow. I don't think I've ever seen Pastor Warren so thoroughly flustered. Thank you, Rock Center, for exposing his nonsensical ramblings for exactly what they are.
Flustered? I respectfully disagree. He seems to be more Frustrated that he keeps getting asked the same questions. I am actually more impressed that he got her to answer her own question. So flustered? no but frustrated at having to find another way to plainly state yet again his stance/belief on the situation? yes.
Doesn't look like Chelsea's interviewing skills have improved! I did notice the incorpoation of Hillary's patented "Pop-eye" expression when she sees the <insert emphasis> sign light up. She is truly untouched by the ravages of a personality. Way to hire the 'talent' NBC! Warren schooled her very well-welcome to he Big Time, Chel. The end product of nepotism always evident. Merit should be the rule in successful businesses.
u cant be a christain
Jesus' words on marriage are recorded in Matthew 19: 4 – 6; marriage of a man and a woman. Christians are opposed to gay marriage because they are opposed homosexual acts. Why? Many passages in both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible condemn these acts. Here is one passage from the New Testament that gives the ultimate reason: 1 Corinthians 6: 9 – 10 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
If you want the traditional marriage of the bible, then you favor polygamy.
You should probably read more. Yes polygamy is in there, and its shown as a bad idea. In fact it states that God intended marriage to be one man and one woman and anything else then just as now is mans perversion of, or straying away from the Word.
I apologize for that opening sentence... that was a bit rude. I really do hope you read into it more. You may end up surprising yourself when you find whats really in there about that.
I don't think you were rude Louis. Unfortunately in our culture, over-reaction is the standard reaction to truth. No one wants to hear God's version when it threatens their own. Thank you for your kind and accurate reading of the Word.
I have a lesbian sister who is married...she got married before Prop 8 passed. So I have no issues with gays in general. I love her and love all my friends...regardless of sexual orientation. What I think the problem is...is that once we concede one thing, and then another, then another...our society will become so deteriorated, there is no turning back. Just my opinion....don't hate me :)
Just a few questions-
If one wants to go from point A to point B anywhere on the earth and it is important that he arrives there-Do you think it advisable that he/she use accurate navigational tools to ensure he gets there?
If he travels based on people giving directions or based on his feelings, what are the chances that he is going to arrive at point B as is the objective?
If it is important that he arrive at point B how important is it that he use true north based accurate reliable navigation tools?
If he is more concerned with his right to take a journey than reaching a fixed destination, then how important is it that he use accurate and therefore RELIABLE navigation tools?
There in lies the difference.
Point B - lasting and genuine happiness without unnecessary associated problems is what we all desire. But how many of us truly achieve this. How many times have we thought something would make us happy, but, when we got exactly what we wanted, we were not truly happy at all.
There of those of us who believe that Point B is achieved by following Biblical guidance, and that anything else will ultimately disappoint and leave a big mess to be cleaned up.
There are those of us who believe that we follow our feelings to happiness and that we can ignore the Bible and still achieve it.
We are all important and what we feel always matters. But, none of us is so important that what we feel is all that matters. We are not that important.
Are you looking for true north or are you just looking to have fun on a journey? Is it not the truth that sets a man free and not free choices? I mean, what is really free in life. Choices have consequences. And since we all live by the consequences of these important decisions should we not all have a say.
The truth is RELIABLE.... A lie is unreliable..... What is true here?
Do we really want more and more people to choose to enter this lifestyle? Then include it in the marriage definition. But,the undeniable truth is-not a single homosexual couple can conceive their own child. Which is the highest, most thrilling moment in a married couples life. And is the best ideal for a child to be raised in. One strange truth- it seems that children who are raised without knowing their biological parents, when they get older- LONG to meet their biologicals and get to know them and hear the story. They sometimes act out as a result, until it is resolved or until they truly come to terms with their inherent worth. I can't explain this, it just is. Even when the adoptive parents have done a wonderful, loving job.
Being gay is actually becoming a more than just a matter of people who say they feel they were born this way, There are lots of people crossing over and trying this lifestyle the more it is accepted. Truth-there is all kinds of confusion that is also created in say a locker room. Talk about rights. If a woman(homosexual) is turned on by seeing another woman (any woman she feels attracted to even (non homosexual), is it right that straight women now should be subjected to secret lusts, when we don't allow men in the women's locker room for that very purpose? Confusing!!! The bathrooms and locker rooms are separated so we don't have to worry about people lusting after us if we have to undress.
Homosexuality is not the only threat to traditional marriage. Sex outside of marriage has been, to date, the biggest threat to marriage. But, such couples are not called married. The law sometimes cover them through under common law marriage. They too have no right to the now coveted "marriage" title in it's purest state. People who have sex outside of marriage are excercizing their perceived rights. It used to be against the law. Well, perfect example of losing our way, look at the mess that children have to live with today. Nothing is reliable. This becomes such a societal mess that we are always being to come up with and pay for some government program to help the children, the real victims of this so called right.
No one has the right to just keep pulling out the stones of our foundation to exercise some perceived right.
We are all in this thing together. But, we really do need to ensure that any decisions we make will help us all respect each other and preserve the strength of the nation as we pass it on to future generations. We don't have the right to financially saddle our children with our debt, nor do we have the right to dismantle their family structure in any old careless way.
In fact, with the sex outside of marriage revolution in effect now, if it were not for the beautiful princess weddings everyone loves, most people probably wouldn't even bother getting married. It used to be said "good girls don't" now it's "what's wrong with you if you don't" There is a societal price to be paid for not properly protecting what marriage is intended to do for our women and children.
Homosexuality is not new. It has been around since biblical days. Sex outside of marriage has been around since biblical times. Adultery has been around since biblical days. The bible clearly warns us to not engage in any of these choices. This goes back to the point B I referenced earlier. Because people want to do something does not make it right.
Love to all!!