The killer storm that pummeled the East Monday and left the nation's largest city with a crippled transit system, widespread power outages and severe flooding has resurfaced the debate about how best to protect a city like New York against rising storm surges.
"Hurricane Sandy is a wake-up call to all of us in this city and on Long Island," Malcolm Bowman, professor of physical oceanography at State University of New York at Stony Brook, told NBC's Richard Engel, who surveyed the damage from a police helicopter Thursday. "That means designing and building storm surge barriers like many cities in Europe already have."
Bowman points to storm surge barrier projects in St. Petersburg, Russia, and in the Netherlands as models. In the Netherlands, a country where a considerable part of the population lives below sea level, such barriers help control flooding in some of the most densely populated areas.
"If we had such barriers in place during Hurricane Sandy there would have been no damage at all," Bowman said.
Before the storm, Mayor Michael Bloomberg's administration had said it was working to analyze natural risks and the effectiveness of various coast-protection techniques, including storm-surge barriers. But officials had noted that barriers were only one of many ideas, and they have often emphasized more modest, immediate steps the city has taken, such as installing floodgates at sewage plants and raising the ground level while redeveloping a low-lying area in Queens.
"It's a series of small interventions that cumulatively, over time, will take us to a more natural system" to deal with climate change and rising sea levels, Carter H. Strickland, the city's environmental commissioner, told The New York Times this summer.
Sandy sent a record 14-foot storm surge into New York Harbor, flooding subway tunnels and airports. It forced the closure of the stock market for two days, the first time that's happened for weather-related reasons since 1888. There's no estimate yet for the cost of the devastation in New York City, but forecasting firm IHS Global Insight put the cost of the damage along the coast at $20 billion, plus $10 billion to $30 billion in lost business.
Graeme Forsyth, an engineer for CH2M Hill in Glasgow, Scotland told The Associated Press that his firm's early-stage proposal for New York is a levee-like barrier that would stretch five miles from the Rockaway peninsula in Queens on Long Island to the Sandy Hook promontory in New Jersey. The barrier would stop a surge of 30 feet, twice the height from Sandy. Gaps would allow ships, river water and tides through, but movable gates could close off all of New York Bay from the Atlantic when necessary. The barrier would protect most of the city, with the exception of Rockaway itself. It would also shield parts of New Jersey.
An animation, produced by the Dutch company Arcadis, shows how a sea gate could protect New York Harbor when a storm surge is imminent. The gates would close and block the water from entering the harbor until the danger has passed.
"Some people may say that storm barriers are an extreme solution," Bowman told NBC News. "I just would say it's bold, it's imaginative, it's permanent in the sense that it could protect the city for another 150 years. The Europeans have done it, why can't we?"
Some scientists, however, say there needs to be a holistic approach and that barriers are only one part of the solution.
Cynthia Rosenzweig, a senior research scientist at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies at Columbia University, told NBC News that as the region rebuilds, developers must take into account rising sea levels.
"The better way is for New Yorkers to be smart from engineered solutions like tidal barriers, fixing the subways where they're vulnerable, fixing our sea walls, remaking our wetlands so that we can, across our whole region and for all our 21-and-a-half million people, protect against the next Hurricane Sandy," Rosenzweig said, adding that even the Dutch now admit they can't protect everyone with barriers.
In the wake of Sandy, Bloomberg, too, appeared skeptical.
"I don’t know that I think there’s any practical ways to build barriers in the oceans, when you have an enormous harbor like we do," he said in a press conference.
But for Bowman, the time to act is now.
"It's a question of national security. It's a question of survival. It's a question of the future population being able to live there so it's taken very, very seriously," he said.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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When I read these comments I have to wonder how some of you folks got thru school. FYI The storm gets it's energy from the heat in the ocean. Raise the temp of the ocean (get it, "warming" ?) and the storm increases its strength sometimes exponentially, sucking up this heat.
The problem with so many of you right-whackos is that you substitute juvenile ideology and the celebration of ignorance, for your deficits in basic science. Ideology Sucks. It is no wonder that you are attracted to shiny objects and loud baboons like Newt, Ryan and Romney. Dave
Not us on public forums begging for handouts and advocating raising taxes on some one else, we manage to take care of our selves,.
LOL...Last time it was the melting glaciers causing the water temp to get colder, Please make up your mind or is it just more convenient to just say what you want.
correct then why are the babboons in NEw Jersey giving construction permission on storm surge risk areas? is that not the blind leading the blind
Probably the same reason they give building permits in earthquake prone regions of California, Forestfire prone areas in almost every state,Tornado prone areas, Mud slide prone areas, Volcano prone areas, Valley flood zone prone areas, Hurricane and tropical storm prone areas of all our coastlines. Wildfire prone areas in many states, or how about burglary and theft zone areas of many of our major cities, Maybe we should not allow people to live in murder prone areas either.
Uh, it formed over warm waters further south and followed the (warm) Gulf Stream as it traveled north, David. The temperature of the ocean is variable, local, and seasonal, and has not risen to any noticeable degree worldwide.
David-2780347
Google for Glacial and Inter-Glacial periods.
What we're experiencing now as far as "climate change" has happened before and will happen again, long before "man" walked the earth and long after the species ceases to exist.
Get over it. The human species is a minuscule speck in the time line and life of this piece of space flotsam we call "Earth". "MAN" will not "save the planet". The planet has existed quite well before mans arrival and will continue it's life after we're gone.
Obama preached cutting red tape and bypassing bureaucrats in order to handle hurricane cleanup more efficiently. This is exactly what all Romney supporters and Conservatives have been preaching forever. Get the Gubbmint out of the way. Little gubbmint equals small failure. Big gubbmint equals enormous failure everywhere you look.
I thought that was ironic too actually. Why is it that it takes a crisis for a liberal to realize that government is restrictive and prevents things from getting done correctly?
Why is it you can't differentiate between what it takes to deal with a crisis and what it takes to deal with long term community interests and planning ?
Is it a mental condition ?
See.. Thats where we differ. I believe community interests come from actual people, not government bureaucrats.
In your worldview, these must be "good" rules and regulations, so why should they overlooked in times of crisis?
A shout out to all the science guys. popular
mechanics, popular science to name a few have been addressing issues like this
for years. It kind of comes down to, do we want to advance into the 21st century
or live in the past. Oh yeah, it would cost tax dollars and help from big league
investors. America is lost in the past, at least we have our monuments.. The
1% er's may have a plan to take it with them, because there won't be anyone left to
leave it to. Saving for a rainy day is here and gone.
Uh huh we get it, you want to pass the costs on to future generations, nothing new with leftys is there?
jerry, what party is all about "cutting taxes"? I'll give you a hint, it's not the "leftys"!
When you cut taxes you leave more money in the hands of consumers thus generating economic growth and when we have economic growth it equals more tax revenue for the government.
Yeah, that's worked great over the last 12 years. Taxes are lower than ever, govt revenue is down by over $600 billion annually.
And Romney wants to lower then even further.
The concept of lowering them too much just seems to escape you guys.
Dumb.
Gov't revenue is down because of the recession and people out of work, prior to the recession gov't revenues were at all time highs.
The concept of taxing people to death seems to escape you guys, And yes I know that while federal income taxes have remained at the same rates since the Bush tax rates were first initiated State,local and a myriad of other federal taxes have risen and they keep rising, In my state our Income tax andsales tax that were enacted several decades ago were supposed to be temporary taxes to get the government out of a hole, They became permanent and they have continually increased, My property taxes are over $10,000 per year and that does not include garbage pickup as we are billed separately for that, Taxes on Gasoline keep going up, Excise taxes on utility bills keep going up, With the exception of food items everything in my state has sales tax added and even some food items are taxed. My health insurance plan that I pay for out of my own pocket is now going to be taxed because I chose to purchase a good policy that is now considered a Cadillac plan.
Do you want money poured into infrastructure or taxes cut? That's the question.
I am sorry but where exactly did that almost trillion dollars that was spent on those shovel ready jobs that were not quite so shovel ready go again, Yes the government spent it and we still do not know what they spent it on.
This administration has spent plenty on infrastructure, The problem is it never really went to infrastructure, It lined the pockets of campaign contributors.
What the state should do is get some of these small offender criminals out of theyre comfortable jail cells and away from theyre tv and newspaper reading. Get them out to these disaster areas chain them together like the old days and let them go to it with anything from cleaning up to using them to build a permanent wall to stop the flooding. They're sitting in they're jail cells as i type this living the good life with food, shelter, while good citizens dont even have a home anymore.. No i guess that would make sense...guess taxing junk food helps everything...
No sea wall for the few. Who wants to look at a wall sticking out of the ocean? Move to higher ground or do as Romney has said let it go back to the banks and let investors buy it if they want to spend the money on sand and rent it back to you. Only people with untold wealth should own things that can be destroyed. I read Romney said that some where!
How about a Wall to keep the wealthy Idiots from building on the edge of the water.
A seawall is not going to stop a hurricane and it may not protect against storm surges but what it will protect against is the damage caused by waves. What people have to realize is most of the damage from a hurricane is from wind and rain and storm surges.
Lets see, christie supports romney, romney wants to cut taxes, christie has pipe dreams of 'rebuilding" jersey beaches, burying utilities underground, maybe a huge door to open and close on the river?Just how many tax cuts will mighty mitty have to make to generate enough multi billions to give this money to his boy christie?Love how neo cons hate spending tax dollars to benefit the public, till something like this happens. I say, if the re covery money the NE needs, (and deserves, like fla, Ok, and othe r disaster states)is borrowed increasing the deficit, I vote , no recovery money. Tired of this hate taxes, and I want money BS from republicans.
both are true. both should be done.
I keep picturing in my mind Bush flying over New Orleans in a helicopter watching the Katrina disaster as hundreds of people died. Some died by the hands of sharp shooters trying to stop citizens from crossing a bridge.
THIS COUNTRY CAN NOT AFFORD ANOTHER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT.
I keep picturing in my mind President Bush calling the Democratic Governor of LA and Mayor of NO and offering Federal assistance and both those idiots arguing who is going to be in charge while the residents of their city and state were suffering. Bush offered the asssistance rigt away, Those 2 clowns did not take it until it was too late.
Put the blame where it belongs...The Democratic mayor of New Orleans and the Democratic Governor of Louisianna are directly responsible for the deaths of thousands not hundreds
Bush diidn't offer anything right away.
There ya go trying to rewrite history. Bush didn't even know Katrina was going to be bad. Only people that watched the news for days ahead of the storm knew it was going to be bad.
Brownie was taking care of it for Bush, remember? or did you forget, Brownie was doing one hell of a job ?
The Bush administration spent weeks trying to convince us that they didn't know it was going to be bad and now you rewrite history as if they were right on the case.
You're despicable.
To the ones that say that storm barriers do not work you are ignorant, look in London the Thames barrier has been used 100 since in operation and London has not been flooded. The Netherlands do not get flooded.
If it is going to cost 50 bn to repair surely a barrier of 16 bn is worth to protect lives, however you can NOT allow construction on flood areas this is stupid.
To lose your home and power must be terrible and no government is going to help you they never do. Politicians are a waste of space and money.
The views living by the Ocean might be great, but is it worth your life and losing your home?
This is why paying for homeowners insurance is far more important than spending the money on renovating your kitchen or buying a new TV. Unfortunately, many people are finding out how much more important insurance is. I feel bad for the people who are stuck in the dark and cold without a place to live simply because they made the mistake of not purchasing insurance. Sad stories.
I can assure you 99.9% of these people have homeowners insurance.
Homeowner's insurance will not turn on the power, get you food, provide transportation and water, nor miraculously provide you a place to live if your house was destroyed.
What are you, an insurance salesman?
If they had homeowners insurance, Loss of Use coverage would pay for them immediately to stay in a hotel, and buy all the food, clothing and necessities they need until the home is rebuilt. The media keeps showing people saying that they are homeless and have no where to live. Either they don't have homeowners/renters insurance or they haven't thought to call their insurance company. BTW, I am not an insurance salesman but I have been in there shoes and I know I wasn't sitting outside in the cold and dark when I lost my house.
There's nothing more American than trying to have a marathon continue during a disaster like Sandy, only to more than likely have some Kenyan win, right?
And then using hundreds of the police for crowd control.
Well, that's why the rich live right on the beach. You have to be just to afford property taxes and hurricane/flood insurance. Good for them, not envious or jealous, but no matter who/what economic class you are in...if you're going to live in potential harm's way...good luck/ hope the view is worth it.
Plus...the ONLY way I'd ever consider living ocean front ...steel reinforced concrete pilons sunk VERY deep, at least 20 ft high...maybe 30... and your CONCRETE slab starts there. In other words...better have a thick wallet.
0bama sent helicopter assault ships.. A far smaller and different vessel than a aircraft carrier. Aircraft carriers have real hospitals on board, water and power generation capabilities. Perhaps New York and New Jersey didn't need all that?
A sea wall won't stop the wind. What the people of New Jersey and New York need to understand is that nothing they can build will completely protect them from this kind of storm. Of course, none of the boat owners thought to get their boats out of the water, and it did not appear that anyone tried to board up their houses (as is done religiously in the south for any hurricane). Everyone stocked up on what food they could get, but nobody thought to have enough fuel on hand for their generators. There also seems to be a lot of people who decided not to evacuate, as well, thinking it 'can't happen to us'. Well, it did, now shut up, dig out and get on with the rebuilding. By the way, here comes another nice storm.
Move ever thing back 10 miles from the ocean ....and no more flooding or build on the beach and you will get flooded any one ought to know a wall wont stop a storm like sandy.It might get a lot more killed thinking it would.
People eating out of dumpsters.....This is Obama's Katrina. He is doing a horrible at reacting to people's needs.
"People eating out of dumpsters..."
WHere on earth did you come up with that from?
and zombies coming out of the flooded subways ......C'mon Funkster ....lets keep it real . It has only been a few days ...
Taking the opportunity to turn any conversation into a political one.
Our infrastructure has been lacking flood security, long enough. We need to tackle it and start building better sea levies and retaining walls in the north east and down in Louisiana! Our infrastructure has been abandoned for too long!
You got your shovel ready ?
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Motha land security will find what ever caused the destruction and the TSA-holes will have to XRay everybody to make it safe.
The unfriendly skies!
So why don't we build a giant seawall along the entire coastline .....From Lubec Maine to Brownsville Texas ......Just think of the jobs that would be created. Oh that's right... it would cost a gazillion dollars. That's ok we are good at spending money we don't have ..... -_-
They want a seawall let them build it. It is not the federal government's responsibility! I am tired of paying taxes to the federal govt, for other than National Defense! Stop it, let the states take care of themselves. Big government is NOT the answer!
Or maybe I should take the personal responsibility to move out of the way of the storm. Oh, that's right, I don't have funds for that, I've spend all of my money on that wide screen television and this cell phone I lug around all day engaged in useless conversation. I have no savings account, life, health, or property insurance. I expect someone to run to my aid whenever a disaster strikes.
They don't need a sea wall, just nuke the dump and turn it into a game preserve.