By Tom Bettag, Mary Murphy, and Ronnie Polidoro
Rock Center
Updated at 3:56 a.m. ET on Friday: For some of those who knew Lance Armstrong the best, his fall from grace amid doping allegations is no surprise at all. Betsy Andreu, a former family friend to Armstrong told NBC’s Harry Smith that Lance Armstrong is the “Bernie Madoff” of the sporting world. Andreu says Armstrong played the world and the media for years while knowingly taking performance enhancing drugs.
In an interview broadcast Thursday on NBC’s Rock Center, Smith asked Andreu why she compares Armstrong to disgraced financier Bernie Madoff. Andreu said, “Because Bernie Madoff was one of the biggest frauds in the history of the world, in the history of finance maybe? Lance is the biggest fraud in the history of sport.”
Andreu was once part of Armstrong’s inner circle. Her husband Frankie was one of Armstrong’s teammates and one of his best friends.
However, Andreu says she and Armstrong had a falling out when she refused to lie about something she heard while visiting Armstrong in the hospital at the time he was diagnosed with testicular cancer.
“The doctors come in and I suggested we leave and to give Lance his privacy. And Lance said, ‘That's okay. You can stay.’ And I turned to Frankie, because Lance was in front of us, and I said, 'I think we should leave to give him his privacy.’ And he said we could stay, ‘Everybody's friends here,’” Andreu told Smith.
Andreu says doctors asked a few banal questions and then asked if Armstrong had used any performance enhancing drugs.
“Lance, holding his I.V., nonchalantly rattled off, ‘Yes, steroids, testosterone, growth hormone, E.P.O., cortisone,’” Andreu said. “My eyes popped out of my head. Frankie saw that I was upset and he excused ourselves and we left.”
Despite her disdain towards Armstrong, Andreu still maintains some sympathy for the fallen cyclist.
“On one hand, there is some compassion, because I don't think he ever healed the child within. And it made him this diabolical person that he is today,” Andreu said.
Armstrong has repeatedly denied the use of performance enhancing drugs or what has become more commonly known as doping. NBC News has reached out to Armstrong and is waiting for a comment.
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There is no such thing as friends to most people. The only friends you have when you are really in need is your family and when money is involved you don't even have them sometimes.
Seems to me another looking for her fifteen ... friend ... RIGHT!!!
I do not know why they are even bothering to put this bitch on the air. She has made no bones about the fact that she hates Armstrong and she would say anything to hurt him. I have read the USADA report and all I see are a bunch of other people who were actually caught doping by drug tests saying that Armstrong use the stuff in exchange for much lighter sentences. Many of those testifying were given the option of a lifetime ban from cycling, or testify against Armstrong and get a short suspension. The testimony in the report is largely bought and paid for. I simply do not buy that Armstrong outsmarted all the different organizations that did drug tests on him all those years when they were catching other riders regularly. Now they are trying to say that the entire drug testing program was a joke and that most of the top riders in that era were using performance enhancing drugs and that many of them were getting past the tests. I have seen some reports that claim that as many as 80-90% of the top 25 riders in the world were using PEDs at the time Armstrong was competing. If this is the case then the drug testing program that they spent many millions of dollars on was completely worthless. The only problem with this is that if it is true then you have to ask how did they manage to catch anyone. If the tests were that easy to beat why would anyone get caught. Doesn't the mere fact that they were catching riders point to the efficacy of the test - or were the riders who got caught just so stupid that they did not learn the tricks all the other riders supposedly knew about and shared with each other. I simply do not buy that Armstrong could have been using PEDs all that time and yet managed to pass all of the approximately 300 drug tests he was given over the period.
@ JS in SD
I agree, did Armstrong have this magical mystical PED formula that beat all the tests he took, if so why didn't anyone else have it?
JS - to speak to how some could beat the tests when others did not (btw- I've felt and still do feel the same way as you on this), I was in the USN (in SD) in the 80's during the adoption of urinalysis for illegal drug testing.
I knew of many habitual users that knew all the tricks (and there are quite a few) and never came back positive. It became a situation where the habitual (and therefore more experienced at beating the testing) were able to beat the tests regularly but the casual users who didn't know these techniques would get popped all the time. You end up with habitual offenders, that are the users you really want to catch, becoming the ones most successful at never getting caught.
When I hear and read about this systematic beating of the PED testing in pro cycling I always think back to those days in the Navy...
To point out the obvious, the testing program used to detect sports cheaters has evolved over time. Clearly, the tests used in the earlier days of testing were not as sophisticated as recent testing protocols. If this woman were the only person reporting her personal knowledge of Armstrong's doping, perhaps her testimony could be discounted. The regrettable fact is that there is not a single person who was in a position to have personal knowledge of Lance's cheating who has come forward to testify in his behalf. Not one. To the contrary, every single one of those individuals has provided damning personal testimony as to his guilt. It has been explained in rigorous detail in various publications how it was possible for the sophisticated drug users to outsmart the testers and stay one step ahead of the tests. The fact that some riders got caught is simply evidence that they were not sophisticated enough or did not have access to the latest doping technologies to stay ahead of the testing. It may be convenient and comforting for some delusional individuals to subscribe to the notion that some unified conspiracy was put together by USADA and 26 some odd riders to do Lance Armstrong in. I think cooler heads not driven by unreasoning passion have come to accept the hard truth--that Armstrong was the most sophisticated practitioner of doping in a sport that was literally defined by the practice. At any rate, it doesn't matter what the unreasoning and unreasonable think; his records and accomplishments have been expunged from the official record book for all time.
So St. Armstrong can do no wrong. But the person who comes forward with this information is BITCH.
How twisted is that?
biker4life,
I'm sorry but Lance Armstrong was according to the UCI tested some 700 times over a 10 year period. During some weeks say at the Tour de France he would be tested 3 times a day for two weeks. If you're able to beat that sort of testing (habitual or not), you deserve to win (juiced or not). I believe the UCI knew Armstrong was juicing but they were so damned ecstatic with the money that had been drawn to the sport during the Armstrong years that they turned a blind eye. The UCI doesn't want to reveal the positive tests because it would show a conspiracy to commit fraud on many levels including the UCI and every other cycling governing body. This is exactly what went on in baseball for decades with PEDs. The commissioner, owners and front office management knew what was going on but tried to play off the gaudy numbers being put up by players as a result of better food, training and GNC. Read between the lines here... There is more than meets the eye!
I find the entire situation bad. It's bad for LA, bad for cycling, bad for the Livestrong foundation, bad for public morale as it essentially proves that nobody can be "fully" trusted when it comes to athletic achievement. Look at Usain Bolt. he "shattered" sprinting world records much like the female who's name I forget, almost cut half a second off the women's 100m record and was later proved to be using PE drugs but died before anything was done. Then Marion Jones. Ben Johnson the most infamous sprinter in history. So is Usain Bolt clean....absolutely clean? Who knows? Maybe he and his group have also found ways to circumvent the testing. If Lance was juicing and passed 500 tests then either the testing system is broke or technology is one step ahead. Tiger Woods came out yesterday (pre-emptively I believe) saying that golf was clean. C'mon Tiger...you used drugs to speed up your recovery and get so buffed. Nice try.
JS, turn that logic of yours around: All the other mountains of circumstantial evidence aside (including multiple documented payments to a doping doctor who Lance claims to have never even MET) and we're expected to believe all these witnesses were caught doping and Lance kept decisively winning races and was the one true shining paladin of honor in a sport full of cheaters? Give me a break.
This isn't an American courtroom where a jury finds one guilty if it is proven beyond reasonable doubt. Circumstantial evidence does count here, as does the testimony of 26 people including 11 former riders, and there's enough of all of it for Lance to swim in. He's been successful at perpetrating one of the biggest frauds in sport history, and apparently he's still got a few people hoodwinked.
If Armstrong won his races honestly, he would truly be a hero. In fact, he would be a hero even if he lost most of his races, but did it honestly. But, a cheater is a cheater is a cheater. I don't like the guy for it. He deserves his shame. The fact that he keeps on lying about it, just lowers him to really low depths that no human should do.
I agree, if 80-90% of the top 25 riders were doping, and Armstrong beat them for seven years, doping or not, he is still the champ. Did he have better dope, more dope, better Doctors, I doubt it, he was simply the better and stronger man, that's why all these people hate him. No matter what they did, Lance still beat them. Lance is the champ!!!
1) Betsy Andreu is not a bitch. Lance Armstrong took away her husband's ability to make a living in cycling by blackballing him...so if she hates him it is deserved.
2) ALL the competitors from that period passed tests. They had doctors on-staff with each team to help them pass them. Kloden, Hincapie, Ullrich, Basso, Hamilton, ALL OF THEM passed tests while juicing. There is nothing special about Armstrong there.
3) ARMSTRONG instituted a team-wide system like none of the other teams had ever seen. They integrated juicing in to their training.
4) ARMSTRONG has called every woman that has ever exposed his secret a bitch and a whore. He did the same with the team masseuse and Andreu. ARMSTRONG, not Andreu is the jackass here.
5) If you STILL wish to hold on to the fantasy that ARMSTRONG was the ONLY cyclist to not juice during the period where everyone juiced and everyone else was caught you are in idiot or willfully ignorant to protect a guy that needs no protection. He helped drive professional cycling over the cliff and it has taken years to recover and START to clean up the sport. He was a scourge that did more damage than good.
Uh, a little proofreading Tom Bettag, Mary Murphy, and Ronnie Polidoro? Jeez! When will you NBCNews.com reporters ever learn how to do your job correctly?
I don't know what to think about all of this. On one hand, if most (or all) of cycling's top athletes were doping, then I find it hard to believe that Armstrong didn't and yet somehow managed to beat them all. Especially after surviving the ravages of cancer. On the other hand, he has NEVER tested positive. Not once. This entire case is based off of, essentially, hearsay, and savors strongly of a witch hunt. If the USADA can allege that this whole disaster was the biggest conspiracy in the history of all sports ever, isn't it possible that, alternately, the charges could be the biggest conspiracy against an athlete, ever? It's not like Federal agencies are trustworthy. If his teammates got caught (which they did) they would certainly have a motive to bring Armstrong down, too, to pull the attention away from them. In any case, we can't completely write him off--his foundation has raised millions for cancer research. He has done a lot of good in this world, too. Until he confesses or until they can come up with a positive test, I remain skeptical.
I know one thing for sure--this woman is bat@!$%# crazy. Why would Lance Armstrong openly admit to doping in front of this woman, even if she was his friend? If he was doping, I think he'd go to great pains to keep it a secret from anyone--he's no moron, he knew the stakes were high.
I highly doubt this story and if it is true, she's much more of a fraud than Lance. If one of MY friends is lying on a hospital bed in a fight for his or her life, NOTHING they say about their personal life is going to cause me to leave (with the possible exception of if they announced they've been doing the nasty with my girlfriend or kicked a family pet). Give me some actual physical evidence and I might take you seriously, sister, but as is, I see far more reasons ($$$) for you to come forward with a tall tale than having any belief your conscience bothers you and you feel it's time to come clean.
One of the reasons I have such a problem with the actions of the dopes on the U.S. Anti Doping Agency is that they have NO ACTUAL PROOF in the form of a positive drug test. Instead, they're busy letting ACTIVE Olympic athletes off "with a warning" for a banned substance, normally associated with masking urine, while pursuing a RETIRED cyclist using the testimony of riders WHO GOT CAUGHT and BANNED. If ONE of the ELEVEN cyclists who has now come forward had made a similar accusation when Lance was still competing, they might have some credibility in my eye, but they didn't and they don't !!
Is it just me or does she look like Lance in drag?
You know, they never found the knife that OJ used to kill his ex and Ron Goldman. And the gloves didn't fit. So, under your criteria, I guess OJ really was innocent
/snark off/
Um... He had just been diagnosed with cancer. You're not exactly thinking clearly when that happens. In the spur of the moment he probably figured his friendship would guarantee their silence. And you know what? Up till now, he was right.
"I do not know why they are even bothering to put this bitch on the air."
Because for 10 years she has been saying these things, alone, and everyone called her a liar, now dozens of other people are saying she's not a liar after all. It's newsworthy
"She has made no bones about the fact that she hates Armstrong and she would say anything to hurt him."
Citation please. Otherwise, she has the right to sue you for defamation, just like Armstrong and his high powered lawyers have sued David Walsh, Emma O'Reilly, Pierre Ballester, L'Express, The Sunday Times, the UCI, SCA promotions, etc etc etc. Then again, Betsy probably won't sue you because that's probably not her style.
"I have read the USADA report and all I see are a bunch of other people who were actually caught doping by drug tests saying that Armstrong use the stuff in exchange for much lighter sentences. Many of those testifying were given the option of a lifetime ban from cycling, or testify against Armstrong and get a short suspension. The testimony in the report is largely bought and paid for."
Not all of the affidavits in the report are from riders, nor are they from currently active riders, so had no 'deal' to make. And some of these from riders, especially George Hincapie, were never caught - the only reason we know is that they admitted it to USADA.
" I simply do not buy that Armstrong outsmarted all the different organizations that did drug tests on him all those years when they were catching other riders regularly. "
They were not catching other riders regularly - for example, Hamilton, and several others were not caught for a very long time - many years after they were with Lance's team. There was no test for synthetic EPO until 2000. There has never been a test for transfusing your own blood back into yourself - we have no idea if riders are still doing it. Lance, according to several people, lied about why he tested positive for cortisone in 1999 - which he did. Nobody disputes that he tested positive for it in 1999. They only dispute the reason. Etc etc etc.
"Now they are trying to say that the entire drug testing program was a joke and that most of the top riders in that era were using performance enhancing drugs and that many of them were getting past the tests. I have seen some reports that claim that as many as 80-90% of the top 25 riders in the world were using PEDs at the time Armstrong was competing. If this is the case then the drug testing program that they spent many millions of dollars on was completely worthless. "
Ding ding ding ding ding. As Robert Millar has implied, if you just look at Hematocrit levels by themselves, where riders were maxed out at 50% for weeks on end, there is no 'natural' way to do that. The only way to maintain 50% hematocrit through a 3 week race is to dope. The UCI simply allowed them to be this way and 'looked the other way' for various reasons.
"The only problem with this is that if it is true then you have to ask how did they manage to catch anyone. If the tests were that easy to beat why would anyone get caught. Doesn't the mere fact that they were catching riders point to the efficacy of the test - or were the riders who got caught just so stupid that they did not learn the tricks all the other riders supposedly knew about"
It's not about the riders. It's about the doctors, and their coordinate with the coaches. Armstrong's team had a doctor, Ferrari, whose mentor was Conconi - this was a guy who was developing drug tests for the olympics at the same time he was giving drugs to olympians. He pioneered self-transfusions in sports. So, in fact, yes, the testing system was basically worthless - it grew out of the 'doctors world' of European sports - we used to think only East Germany did this stuff, but it turns out it was all over the place. Team Doctors were not there to ensure the health of the athletes, they were there to maximize performance through any means necessary. And some of them were so connected to the 'anti doping' that they were able to play both sides of the game.
But not all teams could afford these doctors. Lance payed hundreds of thousands, if not millions, to Ferrari. As for the drugs, a sort of 'black market' developed - EPO for example was manufactured for hospitals to give to patients, but the 'underground' market had huge inflated prices.
" I simply do not buy that Armstrong could have been using PEDs all that time and yet managed to pass all of the approximately 300 drug tests he was given over the period."
As many have said, several other riders were not caught, or were caught years after they left Armstrong's team.
If he confessed, would you believe then?
Why would he? Only because he is one of the most arrogant people to ever walk this earth, that's why.
It blows me away that there are still people who believe his lies.
I never liked him from the first time I saw him on tv. I don't mean like him..I mean when I saw him I realized I felt something off. When people would talk about how amazing he was I would just make a face. Ick.
Oh , wow! You saw him on TV! I stood next to him for quite a while during a LiveStrong event and saw the opposite.
He lied...and bullied. Serious cyclists knew that.
The fans were deceived.
Now the fans are in denial.
He's clean. His last name magically gives him a few 100ths off his time on every race.
At this point in time, it isn't about whether he used or not. It is about the total hypocrisy of cycling world. Why in the world is USADA trying to catch Armstrong 7 years after he retired? They are charged with testing current athletes, and by their own standards Armstrong is innocent. He's retired and is no threat of winning any major races. USADA failed by their own admission. They should return all funding that they received from Congress and anyone else as they are obviously frauds.
A doctor in front of other people asks a person who is famous did you use performance enhancing drugs? Far fetched as in hospital they ask you on a form you fill out and in private only if it matters to the the drugs they are about to give you. So ms anti Lance why did she not come forward with this info right away?Also even if it was true when di he alegedly take these drugs? All of them are for one reason or another taken by prescription for different things. Cortisone for one for tennis elbow or joint stiffness.
According to whom (besides you)? What makes you a friggin authority? You weren't there, so you don't know what happened.
At the time, it was not permitted in the TdF unless you had a prescription. When Lance tested postive a doctor backdated a prescription.
No, it is about whether he was a cheat or not. He was.
Oh wow! So friggin what? Did the glow of his persona shine on you?
Okay, genius, then what do you base this on? What possible motive would these two women have?
The claim that he's been test so much as been discredited for a long time. Even Lance no long makes such an absurd claim. If you still want to believe it, then go find a factual source that supports it.
Too many naive people jumping in to defend Lance. There have been several top notch athletes who we now know were steroid users who NEVER got caught. Look at the big name baseball players. Marion Jones. Football stars. There is more than enough evidence that Lance is lying. You people are childish and naive to have no clue how serious the performance enhancing industry is and how those involved constantly work at hiding the use of substances. There's no reason this woman needs to seek fame. I don't know her and maybe she is some crazy bi..ch who decided to just make up a conversation, but I doubt it.
I can't help but laugh out loud to think that you all would believe that all these other cyclist were taking steroids but Lance wasn't and he was still winning. Fools.
Giantego, I've worked in hospitals all my life and they absolutely will discuss these matters face to face - not on a form - and if the patient okays others in the room, so be it. Stupid and naive to think otherwise.
well i'm waiting to hear what kim k. and honey boo boo...think bout it before i give my opinion...glad i get all my info. from msnbc...
I too am troubled by the fact that he never failed a drug test, yet has been labeled the biggest cheat in sports. It smacks of them saying, "If we can't get him THIS way, then we will get him THAT way!" How many people have spent the last several years of their lives doing nothing but trying to "get" Lance Armstrong? I've still yet to see the physical evidence.
While true that medical staff will discuss personal issues with others in the room, WHY would someone who was doping and trying to keep it secret blurt it out in front of someone as nanchalantly as this woman claims he did? I wouldn't. And if it made her as upset as she claims it did, WHY did she not come forward immediately instead of waiting until someone else, trying to cut a deal, claimed he was doping. I'm thinking she wanted to jump on the bandwagon.
I quite agree that since Lance was already retired, and therefore not even going to register for a local 10 k let alone the TdF, banning him for life was kind of a lame penalty. He has continued to deny it, he had no positive tests during the time when he was actually competing and (assuming he WAS guilty) the statute of limitations was up long ago. All I can say is if I was caught cheating and faced with a horrendous penalty or being given a lesser fine if I ratted someone else out, I'd probably rat. I believe they refer to it on cop shows as trying to reel in a bigger fish by making a deal with the little fish.
The point is, anyone can SAY you did something but without proof (which they don't have because someone was "paid off" to change the test results? How convenient) it's just hearsay
I very clearly spelled out why I consider her a fraud, genius (#1.27). My friends are my friends and I'll be there for them if they ever need me, and I damn sure wouldn't walk out on that friendship because of a revelation about substance abuse while in a battle for their very life, nor would I EVER tell anyone about such a revelation for monetary gain or publicity. If what she claims is true, she's a f**king loser and Lance is better off without garbage people like her in his life, even if he did cheat.
My problem with this whole deal is the absolute BULL$H*T of proclaiming Lance to be the ringleader of all the cheating that went on and the relentless pursuit of him nearly a decade after he retired by using the testimony of those who did get caught or had a falling out with Lance that likely had NOTHING to do with the doping. He likely did cheat, but I'd like to see some actual proof, not just endless accusations by folks with ulterior motives, particularly those who got caught using PED's !!
she sounds a little like a wanabe...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p02DgHeGdyI
Did Armstrong's use of drugs such as steroids and testosterone cause his testicular cancer?
Dawgpound, LOL! One of the more pathetic and stupid attempts to rationalize cheating.
You'd deserve to win if the contest was about who could cheat the best, but last I read the contest was in something called cycling. Nice try though.
Ok.. to the whole "tested over 700 times over a 10 year period bit" clearly there are a lot of ppl who still have selected comprehension... or want to comment while being horribly underinformed as to what they are talking about.... or both, and more.
The claim that "Lance passed over 700 tests" is something you people are seeing wrapped up in posters comments. You will find it no where else on the web. Its people who are innaccurately trying to recall the number Lance and his people threw out, vaguely, long ago and then quickly realized themath for such a number was wrong, making the number itself absurd.
700 tests is a forum version of an urban legend. Someone, anyone, link one single verifiable page tied directly back to Lance himself or any of his people ever throwing that particular number out. Its actually kinda hilarious. If you google it, which I have done out of curiosity trying to figure out where this urban myth started, you get many pages of that number showing up in the comments section. No where do you ever see it coming from Lance, from Lance Co, Livestrong... Certainly UCI and USADA never made any such claim. They were one of the first groups long ago to point out that to be testing that many times, if you understand the time period during which athletes are subject to testing protocols in prep or during an event, would mean Lance was being tested 2 times a day by some calculations. To see people throwing that number out in the first place shows their utter lack of any grasp whatsoever as to how professional sports testing works. Of course you can't believe he would have been able to pull it off. Of course there is no @!$%#ing evidence. Such a scenario where that many tests would have occurred in the first place is completely absurd. Find any place where any organisation has verifiable records of testing their entire sporting world that many times in 10 years. You won't. UCI didn't conduct that many tests in 10 years on the entire pro cycling population for the TDF. So pleace, PLEASE, do the already silly conversation a favor and keep your insanely ill informed lack of understanding to yourself. Its no miracle there is no evidence, because that many tests never @!$%#ing occured. GET IT? As per record, he was tested less than 80 times. And, for the record, he DID come up dirty. Some of you people don't even know the details of the story you're certain to know enough about to claim whether Lance is guilty or not. Lance was dirty for cortisone in '99. Its part of the reason they started to suspect Lance more highly in the first place, put pressure on his connection to Dr Ferrari, which is also a no brainer for how a person could pass tests consistently... Ferrari was one of hte people helping design the tests. DERP. Do you need someone to call @!$%#ing Sherlock Holmes for you ingrate retards?
In the cycling world, as well as other sports, the time period each year you are subjected to testing is during about a 3 month period at MOST before, and then during an event. AT MOST. USUALLY you know to be on the lookout for testers during a less than 2 week window. So, again, do the math. How many times were they testing him per day for that "10 year period" ppl keep going on and on about? 5 times? 10 times? You see why Lance dropped his several hundred story a long, long time ago.
I don't care if ppl want to believe Lance. At this point some of you people have created so much disinformation on the web now that its hard to blame ya. You go looking for info to back up what you want to believe, you don't have enough personal experience with the world being discussed to know for yourself, and you find what you are looking for. Just, do us all a favor and stop talking.
And you call yourself a friend? A real friend would have tried to help her friend in his time of need ---- during his time of need (when you first found out about it). But now, when the whole world comes out and is stomping on his head, you want to join in and lead the pack in giving the blows.
You are the scum of the earth.
Lance, I don't know you, but I love you brother, hang in there.
I don't see what the big deal is with these revelations anymore. Aren't we used to it by now? These sports heroes we put on pedestals more often than not are FAR from perfect. Canseco blew the lid off of baseball, numerous athletes in different sports fell in the BALCO ordeal, LT is into drugs and underage prostitutes, Tiger can't keep it in his pants, and even the exalted Joe "Success With Honor, it could never happen at Penn State" Paterno fell to Earth in the worst scandal in sports history.
I don't think there's any sports scandal that could happen that would shock me at this point.
@Hungrymoose she didn't wait until now. And she didn't pursue the interviews particularly now. They went looking for her, she retold the story she's told before.
chipsalom,
By your own words, everyone can clearly see how much of a fool you are.
big effin deal. he cheated. so what. why were the courts involved? did they not have anything better to do? i notice that the only people complaining about his doping were the ones who lost or didn't get the celebrity even though they were doping themselves.
For someone to have the handle of Antistupidity, you certainly are clueless. First, the 'formula' for beating the tests was to avoid the tester, get a blood transfusion, and submit to testing with clean blood.
This was not a solo operation, the entire USPS team was required by Armstrong to participate.
Read the report, it about as clear as clear gets.
And for the people acting like this woman wasn't a true friend. Seriously, you find out someone you know and respect is cheating in the very field that had brought them notoriety and respect, the same field your husband is in and you should stick by his side through thick and thin ? Lance Armstrong is a cheater and all the millions he has, are ill-gotten, those winnings are not his and by him taking them, the rightful owner, the ones who didn't cheat, were robbed of fortune and fame.
Chances are if LA not cheated, we would not know his name.
Like the fore mentioned Bernie Madoff, it's all about MONEY. Tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars. When you have millions and millions of dollars, in our culture, our society, you can buy anything. Power, loyalty, unique drugs, access to doctors and procedures unavailable to others. The level of denial among the defenders of Armstrong sounds remarkably like that surrounding Jerry Sandusky. To Sandusky it was sex with children, to Armstrong it was money and power. Each, in his own way, a god damned criminal.
Cycling is riven with drugs, period. Armstrong wasn't the only doper or even a member of a minority of dopers. He was just the best among the dopers. Take away all of the drugs and he still may have been the best but we will never know. The sport and almost everyone competing in it at the highest levels are "frauds" if Armstrong and any of the others who have been caught over the past couple of years are frauds. Cycling isn't unique either. Lots of other sports are just as bad.
This person was no "friend" to Lance Armstrong. Everyone has their own selfish reasons to slander the guy. And finally, there is not one single test anywhere that says he doped. Not one. And he has been tested over 500 times.
Think about these things and how you would feel in this situation. We all know of people who have lied against us in our lifetimes, and more often than not, these people were believed in spite of any evidence to their claims. It didn't feel good to you, did it?
No matter what, "Lance in still the Champ!"
You can talk about, cry about it, deny it, he done it!
he already made a name for himself!!!
This woman has been telling this story for years. Google her and you'll see that this isn't the first time she's talked about this. A true friend doesn't threaten to ruin you and your husband for not going along with him and for keeping your mouth shut. Read the emails, they're out there. Lance clearly cheated, otherwise he is a superhuman cancer beating mutant who was able to cycle faster for longer than the top cyclist in the World who oh by the way were doping. Reminds me of track and field in the 80's, watch "9.79" and you'll see that everyone was doping, even gasp, Carl Lewis (yes he's not been caught, but sometimes observation and rationalization ARE proof). Anyway, the fact that Lance won all those TDF's in a dirty field, that was level, should still count.
If Armstrong was innocent of doping, he should have just submitted to arbitration and cleared his name once and for all rather than trying to sue his way out of it. I believe most people who are innocent and wish to retain the titles and accolades they rightfully earned would go the distance to show they are innocent of charges. If you are innocent, you have nothing to hide, right? It is true that some innocent people are still condemned, usually due to the concealment of exonerating evidence, however, in this case, it's unlikely that any evidence that would exonerate Armstrong has been occluded. Armstrong was not a 'victim' of a 'witch hunt' as he calls it; he truly was the Grand Master Warlock and that fact could not be hidden forever, especially as his 'coven' has given evidence against him.
Intimidation! It can be easier to let core people in on the secrest in case they see anything, than it is to keep it from those you spend the most time with.
To the following posters, I am not being antagonostic, I would just like reasonable debate to the following:
@ Canadian Paul
You say all of this evidence and emails are "out there", please post them or let us know where they can be accessed. Thank you.
@ Charle7834
Lance has cleared his name, as he has failed 0 of more than 700 tests. What more can he do? He has been pricked, probed, and rolled. If there was something illegal in his blood or urine, it would have been found. Also, what is this "submit to arbitration" stuff? He has spent years and huge amounts of money fighting this. He doesn't have to "prove" his innocence, but he has already. The witch hunters only have the word of cheaters who were busted. They are allowed to continue cycling only in exchange for testimony against Lance. No conflict of interest there, right?
To everyone else: The only "evidence" against Lance is the word of cheaters who got caught and are allowed to continue only if they agree to go along with prosecution. Also, we know they cheated and we know that Lance has never, not even one time, failed a test. My question is, how come they were not able to beat him? What is this super drug that showed up on their tests, but not his? How was he able to take drugs that allowed him to dominate the competition and not show up on any tests anywhere? Nor were any masking agents revealed in any of these tests. If anyone, anywhere can show video or audio evidence against him, or even one failed test, most of us will change our minds immediately, as we are not delusional. The same way that these people are delusional in convicting him WITHOUT EVIDENCE. Thank you to anyone who reads this post or responds. Sorry for the length.
why the Dr ask what drugs he was taking? Made it simpler to know where the cancer came from. The sh%$ will rot your nuts off Just ask lance
myspell - everyone who's ever cheated knows that the cheaters (and their doctors) are always ahead of the testers (and their doctors).
thats the way life has always been.
it's kind of hard to get popped in a test, when the testers arent testing for whatever you are taking.
isnt it? so passing 700 tests doesnt mean much.
most of baseball passed those tests too, but you see, they werent looking for the drugs baseball players were taking.
in a way, you can almost believe that the "anti-doping" agencies charged with the testing and ensuring a clean sport intentionally lag behind the advances in doping, because doped athletets make for a better sport, it turns out.
otherwise, they wouldnt all be doping would they?
Oh, except precious lance, of course...he's the only one of the whole bunch who never ever, cross his heart, ever did it?
i dont buy it...and it calls into question how his livestrong charity is actually doing...how much of that money actually goes to cancer patients or research? versus lining the pockets of the people "running livestrong"? I havent donated to them, so ultimately I dont really care...but if you have, and you doubt in your mind about armstrong now...i'd question who my donations actually went to. a cheater is always a cheater...livestrong is pretty much his only gig now you know.
Spell check get a clue he doped, they all did, and probably still do!
@ Jessica
Thank you for the polite response, even though we disagree, I can still respect youand your position. Btw, I have not donated to his charities, for the reason that you mention. I do not know what percentage goes to the actual charity.
@choirboy
It's very simple. Show the evidence, not hearsay. For example, show some video, or audio evidence. Or show one positive test out of the hundreds of tests taken. You don't have it. It's ironic that you tell me to get a clue, when you have no clue that everyone can see your lack of intelligence by the drivel in your post.
Name one clean cyclist. There are none. Don't try to tell me anyone is clean because they passed all their testing. That just means they were lying.
LA was the best dirty cyclist of them all.
The only clean cyclist is my mother riding her cruiser.
Good point Spellchecker. I haven't looked his up yet. My wife and I do check before we donate but we now have the charities that we give to every year set up on monthly payments..............and we keep records for taxes.
Even after Armstrong wearied of the fight and quit defending himself and even after they stripped Armstrong of everything they could and condemned him as some diabolical genius for being able to avoid any positive test over the many years, they still continue with their vendetta against him.
A few questions remain:
How was it possible to avoid even one positive test over something like 12 years and hundreds of tests? Oh yeah, they claim he's some kind of genius.
Actually, the anti doping bunch concocted a highly elaborate andsomewhat implausible scenario by which Armstrong was able to defeat all thetests, this scenario itself is simply conjecture on their part with not a shredof proof.
How is it possible that the (by now) dozens of fellow competitors accusing Armstrong that have themselves admitted to using these PED's seemingly never had their performance improved like Armstrong's?
Why after doing everything possible to trash Armstrong, this anti doping bunch continues with their witch hunt?
I suspect that since they have no evidence to prove Armstrong's guilt, they must rely on trotting out as many accusers as possible hopefully avoiding the need for any actual evidence.
Finally, in order to vindicate themselves, they desperately need an admission of guilt from Armstrong himself. This is the reason for their continued persecution of Armstrong.
I have read most of these comments and you seem to be confused about blood doping. It not a steroid, he didn't submit fake blood or some one else blood.
He took his own blood ahead of the race date, ran it through a Centrifuge and removed the hemoglobin (red blood cells), the part of the blood that carries the oxygen. He storied it, and before he raced he would inject himself with his own red blood cells, thus giving his body extra capacity to carry oxygen to his cells this is what gave him the edge . No drugs just, good science, that is why he never failed a drug test, the only thing in his system after a race was his own blood. All be it to much, he is lucky he didn't have a stroke, because this kind of doping raises your blood pressure to dangerous levels, of course he was in great shape.
For the Lance Armstrong defenders: Why does the same bunch always show up claiming to read things that they clearly did NOT read (I mean you JS) and claiming that it is all a massive conspiracy to smear great people. Many of the comments are the same as they ones they made in support of Sandusky/Paterno et al.
I will comment on one thing that is the most damning: Armstrong claims to have been drug-tested over 700 times. But what he does not tell is that only about 42 of these times were anti-doping race tests by race administraters. The remaining over 650 drug tests were paid for by Armstrong in private labs and the results were never disclosed. These were the tests that Armstrong used to adjust doping levels and to screen new chemicals to make sure the official tests did not detect them. As far as I am concerned this is the most damning evidence against Armstrong.
But here is a link to the full USADA report (be sure to look at all tabs): http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/
You will find that there is more than sufficient evidence to meet the civil standard of what a "reasponable man would reasonably decide."
But you also have to remember that there is another investigation that has been going on for quite a while. The cyclers who ratted out Armstrong are finished in racing, but the other shoe has not yet dropped. The FBI is conducting its own investigation along with USPS Postal Inspectors. The allegation is that the doping constitutes taxpayer fraud by the terms of the USPS Team's contract with the USPS. This is a very serious thing that is much worse than just losing your records and endorsements. It means that most of the people who are testifying are doind so in hopes of receiving reduced sentences for being "cooperative." But, according to the FBI, no promises of leniency have been tendered. It is very likely that charges of fraud will be leveled against Armstrong and every member of past USPS racing teams. Most likely the charges will result in significant prison time for Armstrong and 2-3 others who are also denying the charges. Armstrong will be required to repay all USPS support as well.
So don't even think this is over. Armstrong could well be better known as Federal Prisoner u912369 in the near future. I hear that there are "races" in the furniture plants to see who can make the most office chairs. Maybe Armstrong can be the King of Casters.
But if you have any doubt, don't take the word of someone who claimed to read the around 3,000 pages of the report. Go read it for yourself. It is informative, well put together and very convincing. Maybe there is nothing else to do in South Dakota other than curse Indians and make up lies.
Wow! There are a ton of spandex-clad bicyclist losers on this board attacking this woman and defending the cheat, that we now know for sure, 100%, never really won any Tour de France's in his life.
It's hard to believe anyone would stick up for the guy and attack his accusers at this point, after 10-15 have already come out and said he's a lying druggie.
Now, if this is because local Bike guy had some photos of Lance up on the wall, and maybe takes some 'roids himself to win the city bike race and pretend he has talent and ability when he really doesn't...too bad loser.
Go put on your pink tights, inject yourself, and take 'er out for a ride.
Doping ruins everything it touches, but some rndom points:
Shouldn't there be a statute of limitations on this sort of thing? Going after a retired rider for something he may have done years ago is not right. Move on.
When someone gets busted for something, it's always in their interest to say "Everybody was doing it."
Someone posted earlier that NOT ONE person in a position to know has come out in his defense. Well, how could you say that someone never took PEDs? Were you with him the whole time?
Clearly cycling, and many other sports, need to clean up their act.
Survive!
Wow, there are a ton of spandex-clad bicyclist losers on this board attacking this woman and defending the cheat, that we now Know for sure, 100%, never really won any Tour de Frances in his life
First off, I've never owned a pair of spandex cycling shorts, I prefer wearing board shorts or cargo shorts and smoking cyclists on my Trek (that I owned long before I had ever heard of Lance Armstrong) with more money in their outfits than I have in both of my bikes and in some cases, the pickup that carries them.
As for this former "friend", like I've already, either you are a friend or you aren't, and an admission of substance abuse would NEVER be enough by itself to end a friendship to me, especially if that friend was fighting for his or her life.
I don't believe her story, but if it is true, she and her husband are quite simply, lo-lo-lo-LOSERS !!!
As for the cheating, while it is likely Lance did cheat, the dopes at the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency have yet to produce PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that Lance cheated, but instead are using the testimony of those they DO HAVE physical evidence cheated to proclaim him "guilty". That rates an EPIC FAIL on multiple levels with me.
Also, if Lance didn't win those seven Tour de Frances, who did? One of the guys that DID get caught cheating ?? Sorry, no sale.
What a bunch of nonsense. First of all, I doubt that you smoke anybody wearing cargo shorts and your old Trek, other than some fat guys.
As far as evidence - any physical evidence has been long gone. The needles were disposed of. But lack of physical evidence doesn't change the fact that eleven - count'em - ELEVEN teammates doped. That could not happen if the team doctor/management wasn't aware of it. And of course, it would have been impossible for Lance to be pure; he would have had to have known what was going on.
xrayspex, you haven't followed the sport, you haven't read the report and you haven't researched any of the history of this long and sordid affair. Bone up on some history, dude. And watch out - that old guy on the custom Waterford overtaking you is gonna ride right over your a$$.
Plenty of far younger riders in their "lifestyle gear" have seen the back side of my single speed Western Flyer (more than one when I was wearing jeans) so don't count on many weekend warriors taking me on on the Trek (I accept that there are folks far more into cycling than I am that will smoke me, especially if they're in their 20's. Oddly enough, they are not usually the ones in $3000 cycling outfits on $8000 bicycles.)
Making excuses for a terrible precedent in competitive substance abuse testing doesn't mean it's not still a terrible precedent. That doesn't mean the sport doesn't and didn't need cleaning up, but they absolutely need to start with the testing of CURRENT athletes, not ones who have been retired for nearly a decade that you admit they have no physical evidence to convict them of a crime with. Also, the absolute hypocrisy of letting an ACTIVE U.S. Olympic athlete compete "with a warning" for a banned substance FOUND in testing while pursuing a retired professional athlete is stunning and simply unacceptable IMO.
And as far as that last comment, anyone that thinks they're gonna "ride right over my a$$" with ANY wheeled vehicle would be wise to "bone up" on my history in two branches of military service, which included plenty of armed and unarmed self defense training and experience (I've been known to take the "Colonel" along when I ride with a couple of my fellow veterans just for stupid motherf**kers who either don't respect our right to ride or would like to make me us crime victims).
Oohh! Another big talking military guy! I'm so impressed. And to brag about your cycling explots makes you sound more like a dweeb. First, you bragged about "smoking" cyclists on your old Trek; now, its a single speed Western Flyer. I suppose next, you'll brag about beating guys on a skate board - a 2X4 with a roller skate nailed to the bottom. What a man!
There's a term for people like you: FRED. We see guys like you at all organized cycling events - line up at the front with the 100 milers, gets in the way cna causes accidents because you don't know how to ride in a group.
I am long retired from anything more than the occasional blast around town (I never had any problems in crowds, other than dealing with aggressive, "superstar" types who thought they were riding to win the Tour de France or running in the Boston Marathon instead of participating in a charity event where winning should have come second to being part of a good cause, back when I did run or cycle in organized events, which was a long, long, time ago),where I am still more than happy to show that I'm not quite finished with staying in shape (when I'm not aggravating and then recovering from some past injury), and you are obviously oblivious to the fact I can't stand most of the self-important douchebags who attach themselves to competitive running or cycling.
You also seem clueless to the fact that I am not defending Armstrong near as much as I am denouncing the ridiculous lengths the dopes at the U.S. Anti-Doping agency have gone to take down a RETIRED athlete based on PAST testing, especially the hypocrisy of letting an ACTIVE athlete slide on a banned substance in her urine based on CURRENT testing in the same year.
Bottom line is you need to get over yourself and try and comprehend what a horrible precedent is being set by "convicting" someone based on hearsay testimony from people with too obvious conflicts of interest and NO ACTUAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. You would also be wise to figure out that military veterans are NOT people you want to have a problem with in real life (as opposed to on an internet forum), lest you someday learn the hard way.
But there was physical evidence, if you bthered to research the subject. In 2004 a French lab while doing research asked the UCI for urine samples from the 1999 tour. The samples did not have names of the riders from which they came. Some samples tested positive for EPO, and a journalist got obtained the IDs/Names and matched a positive sample to Lance. This was reported but hushed up. One has to wonder if the large cash donations Lance made to the UCI had something to do wth it.
Oh, and by the way, you make yoursef appear that more mornoic making veiled threats on the internet to someone you don't know.
That first paragraph amounts to a FABLE, a CONSPIRACY THEORY, not ACTUAL, LEGALLY ACCEPTABLE, PHYSICAL EVIDENCE presented in a Court of Law. This story died because it had ZERO CREDIBILITY in 2004 or Lance Armstrong would have NEVER competed in the 2005 Tour de France.
If there was ACTUAL, PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that LEGALLY PROVED that Mr. Armstrong doped or used PED's, he would have been done long ago and I'd have never taken up dissing the dopes at the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency for the fraudulent way they've spent untold amounts of time and money and taken serious ethical liberties (if you got CAUGHT by drug testing, you have ZERO CREDIBILITY in the matter, especially the credibility to testify against someone with ZERO positive testing results) to take down a RETIRED American cycling athlete SUSPECTED of doping (but with NO ACTUAL, LEGALLY VERIFIABLE PROOF that he did) and using PED's, while having the absolute arrogance and gall to give a pass to an ACTIVE Olympian in the same year for a banned substance, typically associated with masking PED's in urine) VERIFIED by urinalysis.
As for the second, I seem to remember that old guy on the custom Weathorford overtaking you is gonna ride right over your ass as the start of my going negative. There's no veiled threat about anything, there's a promise that I am not someone who will tolerate bullying, be it on a bicycle, in public or on a keyboard.
Wow! I wonder if the use of these drugs might have contributed to his cancers. Something to ponder.
There haven't (to my knowledge) been any studies specific to the kinds of drugs he apparently took and testicular cancer. I had this particular kind of cancer five years ago and never took performance enhancing drugs.
In fact, there is very little known about possible reasons for developing testicular cancer; other than men (obviously) of scandanavian heritage between the ages of 19 and 30 are at the highest risk.
There have been many studies.
Acne, testicular atrophy, decreased sperm count, gynecomastia (enlarged breasts in.... It is medically proven that the cancer loves the taste of testosterone, which ... cysts; however, during the course of steroid use, the cysts can create tumors.
steroidabuse dot com
I know a lot of folks will say No, but there are a lot of ex-jocks right now saying that P.E.D. did cause them their current issues. I remember Lyle Alzado cursing the fact that he took that stuff and was living a very short sentence of death. Isn't it common sense? You mess with your core make-up and you are opening the door for a world of hurt.
YES! Sports Illustrated published a very interesting article a couple of years ago with the VERY POSSIBLE scenario that Lance caused his own cancer as he admitted to his doctors of using some experimental PEDs that caused cancer in lab animals! READ THE ARTICLE!!! It will make you think!!!
rgraham - apples and oranges. That proves nothing. BTW, some of the drugs mentioned in the article do increase the possibility of getting certain forms of cancer, including testicular cancer. Look it up. The fact that you got cancer but never took the drugs doesn't mean anything
Who cares? no one cares about cycling. besides I'm sure all these guys use drugs.
Having coached youth hockey for many years, USA Hockey impressed upon us coaches the harm of using performance enhancing drugs. Testicular cancer was their #1 reason NOT to use these drugs and to not let your kids use them. There is a direct link between those who use and get testicular cancer.
Now it is possible to get testicular cancer without the drugs, but then again, men do get breast cancer too. Both are rare but both happen.
Steroids, HGH, most PEDs all alter your hormone levels which comes with desirable and undesirable side effects. Cancer is, in its simplest terms, an uncontrolled growth. It doesn't take a bio-chemist to see that abuse of PEDs can cause cancer. As with anything, there are people who use it under medical supervision and those who use it unsupervised who will never have a problem. It doesn't equal automatic cancer but it more than likely increases your risk.
Is it really too hard for some people to accept that altering your hormone levels to facilitate muscle growth could also facilitate undesirable growth in the form of tumors?
That has been suggested for some time. Ever thought of doing any research?
Well, this is the first time I've heard of Betsy using the word "compassion" in this case. It's new. I don't think she was shy about saying how much she disliked him. It was my impression she hated his guts, actually. But then, the cameras are rolling.
Once the dam broke everyone rushes for the closest national enquirer to make a few bucks with their stories.
Ya, from the comments posted all over on this page, you'd think half of the people here think that this is the first time she has ever spoken up.
Right, uninformed ignorant people who think she's out to make a quick buck. Or maybe just to regain some of the money (and credibility) they've lost over the years being blackballed by Lance.
I think you'd hate Lance's guts too, if you were subjected to the same forms of intimidation that she endured.
Who can you believe these days? Romney?
Yes
Obama?
Your comment is useless to this article and only show's your bias.
It's become impossible to believe anything Romney says because he changes positions faster than a windsock in a hurricane..... Maybe it's from all the steroids he's been taking.
Definitely not Romney.
The only study I've read that linked anything to testicular cancer was people in the trade of chimney-sweeping. They had an incidence of this disease that was spiked way up from the norm.
Generally I think any growth hormone is going to accelerate and exacerbate an existing cancer or a new one. This is probably true in most cancers. A lot of men are on testosterone-replacement therapy and there hasn't been anything definite about that, with the exception of prostate cancer, but that is AFTER the incidence of the disease, not before.
No BigAl, he pays to have the working class take his roids for him.. then he sends them packing with no pension, health care, or retirement of any kind after he's gotten his bulk out of them.
Big Al: I'm for Romney myself (I don't agree with many of his policies, but I don't agree with a lot more of Obama's so I have to go with the lesser of two weevils) but I did have to laugh at that. now I have to clean coffee off my monitor... thanks :)
Lance is better off without that Ho as a friend!
Who cares if he used, I have and I like it!
You can call her a "ho" pal, but I don't hear you calling her incorrect.
She is a lying Biatch that needs whipping with Lances Bicycle chain!
I hope this is a lesson to any of her current friends to abandon her before she throws them under the bus for 2 cents!
Why are you calling her a gardening tool?
HO not HOE
Lance has no friends....and deservedly so. Every friend that saw him juice was turned into an enemy and he made their lives miserable. Lance deserves no friends.
with no friends he'll have to get on the vine an gripe...bout other people who actually have a life...like the rest of us sometimes do...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p02DgHeGdyI
@Craig Lance, is that you behind that screen there! Thats where you've been! Hacking your own comments! lol jk
You sir, are EXTREMELY intelligent! I mean, who doesn't love a good steroid?
Those who defend liars and cheaters probably harbor the same character flaws.
It has always been an axiom that it isn't your enemies that you have to watch closely----it is your friends!!!------and as for a secret, "if more than one person knows, then it isn't a secret anymore!!!"
Boy people sure do turn on their "friends" don't they, After hearing the list of steroids he took I said "so what". Armstrong is still the greatest cyclist in history.... period.
Armstrong is no longer the greatest cyclist and never was. He's a fraud.
Wre the cyclist he beat taking PEDs? So with the playing field leveled, he still beat them. yes?
but does he have to pay back endorsement money to his sponsors? Madoff had to pay back.
The word is, yes. There are several legal actions pending to take back TdF winnings and bonuses paid to him. Lance is about to lose millions.
Gee, I wonder what these regulatory committees are going to do when genetically enhanced athletes begin to appear? Claim that they are "frauds" too?
Of course! They will be frauds, unless they will have 'legalized' genetically-enhanced athletes.
Boy, I guess the higher the pedastal, the more it hurts when you fall. Very few atheletes have been as revered and idolized as Lance Armstrong. He was an icon for excellence in his chosen sport, and for drug-free success.
Now...
Well, lets just say I don't think he'll be drawing any endorsements from any organization in the near future.
Funny thing is, I really wanted to believe he had achieved all of his victories legitimately. I think many other people felt the same. That is probably why it took so long for the truth to surface, and why so many people are turning their back on him now.
I totally agree. I really wanted him to be the great guy that was portrayed in the media for so many years.
My question is this: how do these guys pass the drug tests? My sport is tennis and I know the regulations are really strict. You have to be available to be tested every single day of the year and the testers show up at random.
"What is the whereabouts program?
The whereabouts program requires players to notify the ITF of their whereabouts during a one-hour window of each day of the year. During that one-hour window, the player must be available for testing at a specific location (i.e., the player’s hotel, a restaurant, a photo shoot, etc.). The whereabouts program applies to all players, men and women, who finished inside the Top 50 during the previous year, as well as the Top 10 doubles players and the Top 5 wheelchair and quad players.
In 2009, the ITF conducted 2,126 tests (total for both men and women at all levels, including Challenger events); 154 of those were out-of-competition tests. Roger Federer was tested 17 times in 2009: 12 urine tests, four blood tests, and one test for EPO (one of those tests was out of competition, the rest were at tournaments)."
All that for a sport with virtually no problems with players using performance enhancing drugs. In cycling, it is my understanding that drug use is rampant, so how do they test the athletes and how are they able to pass the tests?
If you read the whole story, it becomes clear that the testers were in collusion with the riders, or were so wishy-washy that the could easily be manipulated. There's the time when the testers showed up at Armstrong's hotel, and he questioned their authority and refused the test for several hours, disappearing into his bathroom in the interim. You'll never convince me that the european cycling community, including the testing organization, didn't know exactly what was going on. But because it was so widespread, they had no incentive to crack down on the top riders until public pressure forced them to.
I'm not the person to answer this question. My guess, is that there are always new, and harder to detect drugs out there, that Lance Armstrong was always careful in what he used and when, and that the testers in his sport were overly deferential.
What caught him finally, I think were two things, blood & urine samples saved from years back, which in up to date tests, clearly show what he was using, and the crumbling of the wall of silence surrounding his drug use.
Oh well, sic transit gloria mundi, I guess, or just as appropriately, tough sh!t Lance.
@Smeefy interestingly enough, many of those ways of conducting business came into effect as a direct result of the trouble people like Lance and others have proven to be over the years.
I would hope most ppl do realize that most of those programs didn't exist until fairly recently.... or i can see an entirely new direction of excuse making coming.
@Dman even moreso than any of those factors, his ego is what finally did him in. To be such an @!$%# across the board to everyone, from Sheryl Crow to former teammates to just regular friends... most end up splitting ways with him. Go figure.
Smeefy- from other articles I have read where his teammates spoke about how they got around the testing process, they said that they would not answer the door when the testers came and they had a system of alerting each other when testers came around so they could disappear, especially if they had just used PED's, and reappear for testing later after they had done whatever it was to mask the presence of PED's in their urine.
I know that for narcotics there are pills or a liquid you can take that will mask the presence of cocaine and marijuana, (you can buy it cheaply in most head shops) but it only works within a short time-frame. You take the pills or liquid, drink a specific amount of water and then you have about a three hour window to give a specimen that will be negative for these narcotics. I suspect these athletes did something similar.
I see more apologists for Armstrong here. Face it, fellas, your "hero" was a fraud.
His was an example of a badly managed fraud----most of us are frauds but are smart enough to 'get away with it.'-------don't trust anyone!!!
What is sad is that he probably could have won legitimately, but he had to cheat. That means he gave himself an unfair advantage over every rider there who had also practiced until they dropped, spent money to get there and had high hopes. They did this on their own strength and their own endurance while he coasted high on performance enhancing drugs, so he basically thumbed his nose in all of their faces, and treated his fans like they were idiots. Think of all of the young people growing up and wanting to be just like him? He let them down and that is the worst sin.
@Carol - I don't know if he could have won legitimately. There were so many stories of him "coming from behind" or "coming out of nowhere" at the last minute that surprised so many riders in the lead to see this sudden burst of speed whiz by them. I think that must have been the drugs.
But then again if it's true that almost 90% of all pro cyclists were doping at the time, then wouldn't the playing field be even? Maybe he doped more than the others did? It's just like baseball in the 80's and 90's. I saw these scrawny players turn into musclemen almost overnight.... a LOT of them!
As more evidence piles up, how are the record keepers and the sports statisticians going to make any sense of personal statistics and wins? If you strip one person of a title and give it to the person who came in 2nd place and you find out THAT person was doping too, and so on and so on, you might as well just shut down the sport. It's a really complicated mess.
Carol, all the riders were doping. He would have finished last if he wasn't doping like every one else.
Kinda heartbreaking. But typical.
How do you know a cyclist dopes? They win.
No, No, too liberal. How do you know a cyclist dopes? They cycle!!
These dopes tend to run in cycles.
Fraud or not. User or not. He won a lot of TDF races and is an incredible athleate. He out performed a lot of other users during every Tour. Drugs cant do it all for you.
Maybe drugs can't do it all for you, but they can vastly increase your chance of winning and of outperforming a lot of others. I can NEVER be know if he would have done as well if he AND THE OTHERS were not doping.
Then why is it he as never failed a drug test? Ever hear of sarcasm?
But he has tested positive for drugs before.
Truth hurts when one falls so far. Would be nice to finally clean this sport up. For those who have used and 'like it' go back and research what has happened to many of the athletes from what used to be East Germany..they mostly used....not too many who have escaped cancer or worse! Enjoy your drugs, there is no place for you in sports!
I don't believe that Romney is being honest when he says he never used any performance-enhancing drugs. Nobody could be that dumb without some help.
Take your meds and relax dc.....Romney is here to stay.
dc-910658-
"I don't believe that Romney is being honest when he says he never used any performance-enhancing drugs. Nobody could be that dumb without some help."
------------------
RE-READ your OWN statement again...
Did you do it? Good, I rest my case!
@DC ...
If rolling up a 100 million dollar fortune is dumb, I'll take some of those drugs.
I used to work for a senior officer in the Air Force who admonished me that he, 'judged a person's weakness by the number of 'friends' he had'
Sadly, very sadly......in late life I've found that that sorry excuse of a human was pretty much spot on!
People get confused between 'friends' and 'aquaintances'-------"there lies the rub!"
As for the 'officer'---did you ever know how many 'friends' he had??
I was in the Air Force. There are a lot of idiot officers in there who feel like they have to make their 'mark' by coming up with some pithy axiom. Most of them are stupid if you really think about them.
Sad.
Sometimes a Martini or two gives me a clearer image of my problems----Question; am I using a performance enhancing drug???
Yes, but a legal one.
Besides, your martini doesn't really enhance your 'performance'; it just makes you think your performance in 'enhanced'. :)
Depends on what the definition of performance is. My ex's "performance" was greatly enhanced by alcohol as was my tolerance for it.
He used performance enhancing drugs, he knew it was illegal in his sport - - he is finished there. As should ALL whom use these substances in sports. The same should apply to professional ethics in business; companies that short-cut materials processing methods or defy regulatory standards protecting their workers and the general public should be held civilly and/or crimminally liable.
what women will say to have her face on TV... nice....
Yus: what A WOMAN will say...but thanks for trying to generalize. maybe you need to heal the child within too. LOL
What a ridiculous, sexist statement!
His team-mates (all males) have verified that Lance and the team took drugs. What name do you have for them?
I wonder if Harry Smith will mention that the doctor who was in the room during this conversation denied everything the Andreau's have said for years.
That is true, but it might be the doctor's belief that patient doctor privilege justifies him lying and trumps a civil suit. Especially due to all the work Lance does for cancer treatment.
Except that the doctor could refuse to say anything at all. Your statement using the privilege argument is specious at best, as is the follow up.
Thank you left wing, that was exactly the intent. I apologize for being too subtle in my sarcasm. It's most likely due to a hefty pay off and/or livestrong promises.
If you truly think Lance Armstrong didn't take performance enhancing drugs, I live in Brooklyn and we have a bridge for sale, would you like to buy it? Now, that said, let's be realistic, Lance Armstrong took performance enhancing drugs but so was everyone else in biking so I still think he was the best bicyclist of his era because he was beating others on PED's. However, a friend points out to me that not all doping programs are the same, Lance had a particularly sophisticated one, perhaps more sophisticated than any other therefore giving him an unfair advantage even though all were doing some kind of doping. Again, if you believe Lance Armstrong did not use PED's, I have a bridge for sale, please buy it.
Let's get all the guys together, now that they're "clean" and have them in a little bike race. Even-steven I bet the outcome is the same. Lance proved that the playing field leveled he was the best, most feared, and furious rider. You don't get into that sport and torture yourself because you're just regularly competitive.
This guy isn't all monster. Name any historically competetive person and you'll see they had disliked personality traits. A lot of people disliked Ali, MJ, Babe Ruth, Reggie Jackson, Lance, Tiger, etc. They were the ultimate.
Yeah, but if this guy cheated to this degree and with this level of boldness and audacity, don't you think that's much more serious than an annoying "personality trait"?
Winning isn't everything. Gimme a "loser" any day over Lance.
Looking at the sport of cycling, which I was a knowledgeable fan of for some time, I'd say it is (or was) a big part of the sport. Instead of audacity or boldness, part of me thinks it was more calculation and self preservation.
The advances in science that Lance helped make with the equipment of the sport are not too much different than the advances in doping strategies. That being said, he revolutionized (with expert help, of course) how performance would be enhanced. He took it from the level football jocks used (e.g., injecting clean urine via catheters) to a level of precision. Was it cheating, according to the rules, yes it was. However, was it everywhere in the sport, yes, everywhere. So much to the point that even scrub riders did it - to a degree.
I agree with the points that Gladwell made about doping being an accepted part of the definition of what it means to be a cyclist.
Right now, there are guys combing over the info about Lance, calling him, etc., to figure out how they can get to the performance level he was.
Don't think this isn't all smoke and mirrors. In a few years Lance will still be making money from Nike, holding an office a Livestrong, etc. We're all feeding into it now due to the dramatic stir.
All of the men I mentioned previously did amazing things for their respective sports and no matter what they did there were plenty of people behind the seens saying "So-and-so, you have to take this one on the chin for US. This doesn't effect our actual relationship."
If you think otherwise it's just proof positive you've not accomplished anything to a high degree.
Face it, Lance thought he was above it all. His arrogance lead to his demise. The guy doped like everyone else and finally got caught like everyone else. He was the greatest doping cyclist that ever raced!
If taking a bunch of roids makes them go faster, let them take it. Its cycling, who cares. This woman is a low-life. If she said that before the world had already found out, then what she said would have been taken seriously. Now she just wants a book deal. Pig.
Romney and Lance should date.
You and Caligula would make a nice couple.
Dont you just love political injections into other topics..... go read another page...
Crazy how 8 years after his last race all these people are coming forward to crucify him. Just because you're telling the "truth" now doesn't make it any better if you covered up his secrets in the past... Now you just look like a vindictive attention-seeking back stabber. Whether or not he cheated, Lance has done a lot for cancer research and slamming his name and dragging it through the mud is negatively affecting LiveStrong which is a shame.
Assuming that LiveStrong is being 'negatively affected' (which I doubt because every sponsor who dropped Lance says they will continue to support LiveStrong), isn't that HIS fault for cheating in the first place?
LiveStrong has always been just another way for Lance to get his ego stroked.
after giving himself cancer by doing too much testosterone. Wow
Shame on these "friends" and "folks" for backstabbing! If they knew for so long then they are as equally guilty! All this mean talk about Lance is called "bullying" in my book. Leave the guy alone.....
Austix you sound like that crybaby who wailed about leaving Brittney (Spears) alone! Lance made his bed know he's lying in it.
choirboy... your singing to the wrong choir.... shed no tears over Brittney.... nor Lance... enough is enough.
P.S. I think you meant "now" instead of "know"
Lance's charity has raised millions for cancer awareness and assisting patients with cancer. It does nothing for cancer research.