By Meghan Frank, Jamie Farnsworth, Sabrina Esposito and Jessica Hopper
Rock Center
From the time she was a little girl, Claire Russo knew she wanted to be a Marine.
“When I was 10 and when I was 18 and when I was 23, the reason never changed. They were the toughest,” said Russo in an interview with Natalie Morales broadcast Thursday on NBC’s Rock Center with Brian Williams.
The native of Washington, D.C., stuck to her dream, graduating No. 4 in her class from officer candidate school in 2003. Her father, Ken Wilkinsen, watched her commissioning with pride.
“This colonel came up,” Wilkinsen recalled. “He said, ‘If we had more of her type here... my job would be a lot easier.’”
Russo began what she thought would be a long career in the military, but her work as an intelligence officer was upended when she was sexually assaulted by a fellow Marine in November 2004.
“I love this country,” said the 32-year-old Russo. “But, you know, there’s a wound that will never heal. I gave the Marine Corps everything and it took from me something that I’m never going to get back.”
Russo is one of the thousands of members of the Armed Forces who have been sexually assaulted while serving their country. Last year, 3,192 service members across all branches of the military reported sexual assaults. Based on anonymous surveys of active-duty service members conducted in 2010, the Department of Defense says the number of incidents was closer to 19,000. Of the cases that are reported, only a fraction are prosecuted in the military justice system.
Attorney Susan Burke has filed several lawsuits against the top brass at the Department of Defense on behalf of sexual assault victims, charging they’ve been deprived of their due process.
“What all of us expect as Americans is an impartial system of justice. We don’t know the judge. We don’t know the jurors,” Burke said. “That’s not what is happening in the military. In the military, the commanders get to decide based on their own impressions of the two people coming forward who to believe. ”
Courtesy of Claire Russo
Claire Russo
Russo’s case was shut down by the Marine Corps, but since her assault happened off base, she was able to seek justice in the civilian court system. Recalling the November 2004 night she was assaulted is still upsetting to Russo. She attended the Marine Corps Ball at a San Diego, Calif., hotel with her cousin, Tom, a Navy F-18 aviator. Tom introduced her to a fellow marine, Doug Dowson. Dowson bought her a drink and said he’d take her to a room party.
Russo said that after accepting the drink from Dowson, things started “to get a little hazy.” Russo said that she felt like she’d been drugged. A drug test taken over 24 hours after the assault was inconclusive.
“The next thing I remember is being on the ground in the bathroom. He was holding me down and sodomizing me and at that point, I was just crying and begging him to stop,” said Russo through tears.
The day after the assault, she told her cousin. He reported it to his command and was ordered to take Russo to the naval hospital for a rape exam. As Russo was about to undergo the exam, her cousin received a phone call from the military criminal investigator assigned to the case, NCIS Special Agent Zach Paton.
“I told him to leave and come to me,” Paton said. Though Paton was the naval criminal investigator assigned to Russo’s case, he didn’t trust the military to handle it well. “The Naval Medical Center, they didn’t have appropriate personnel, training and material for doing rape kits," he said.
Paton took Russo to a civilian hospital for a sexual assault exam, waiting outside the hospital room as Russo was examined.
“You could hear her crying out in pain,” Paton recalled.
Since the assault had taken place off base, Paton could run a joint investigation with the local police. This proved pivotal in Russo’s pursuit of justice because although Paton would present the military with forensic evidence, testimony and photos, the Marine Corps ultimately decided not to charge Russo’s accused rapist.
“As the investigation progressed, as the command briefings and evidence and investigative reports were presented to the command of the accused, it was very apparent that they were going to take no action,” Paton said.
Paton broke the news to Russo, but neither of them was prepared to give up.
“Fortunately it was a joint investigation with the police department. So we explored that avenue of letting the D.A.’s office take a look at it,” Paton said.
The San Diego district attorney’s office wanted to prosecute, but Russo said she felt pressure from her command not to work with civilian authorities.
“They did say, you know, ‘This is a bad idea,’” Russo said. “Once this case goes to the district attorney’s office, Claire, we can’t help you. You know, we can’t protect you.”
“It felt as though there was a desire to sort of intimidate both me and the district attorney out of actually prosecuting this case,” Russo said.
Russo said the Marines also ignored her pleas for a transfer which meant that she had to endure an on base encounter with the man she knew had raped her.
“I broke down physically, emotionally and I actually like, I urinated on myself,” said Russo of one encounter with Dowson. “I was terrified.”
The district attorney obtained a search warrant for Dowson’s house. There, Paton said he and the police found hidden cameras and hundreds of hours of video of Dowson having sex with seemingly incapacitated women. Paton also discovered that just seven months prior to Russo’s assault, a female aviator had a similar incident with Dowson. She told her command but said she felt pressure not to file a formal report.
Prosecutors charged Dowson with raping Russo. He pleaded guilty to sodomy before his civilian trial began and was sentenced to three years in prison. He was released after serving 18 months.
Courtesy of Darchelle Mitchell
Darchelle Mitchell
When asked if her case is an exception within the military, Russo said, “The only thing that makes my story extraordinary is that I got justice.”
Rock Center interviewed several women who claim they were raped by fellow military members. Unlike Russo, many of them never received justice. Some didn’t report their assaults because they feared it would destroy their careers.
In Darchelle Mitchell’s case, the petty officer she says raped her was acquitted and her Navy career suffered. When Mitchell tried to re-enlist as active duty in the Navy her request was denied. She has since joined the Navy reserves.
“I knew joining the military was going to be a sacrifice. This wasn’t the intended sacrifice that I was willing to make,” she said.
Former Air Force Sgt. Laura Sellinger said that she attempted suicide after her command announced to her squadron that she had been raped while at a training exercise in South Korea.
“Everybody knew at work,” Sellinger said. “And they’re calling me all kinds of things and I’m sitting here and I just went to Iraq and through hell and now I’m dealing with this, ‘I’m a slut, I’m a whore. I deserved it,’ and all this kind of stuff. I give up. I absolutely give up. I’ve never been so hollow.”
Courtesy of Laura Sellinger
Laura Sellinger
Another veteran told Rock Center she was threatened with adultery charges from her commander after she pushed for her rapists to be prosecuted. Victims say this culture of blaming them and not punishing their rapists leads to more assaults.
Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta said the military is trying to do a better job of prosecuting these crimes.
“I think we owe all of those who’ve been impacted not just an apology, but we owe them the effort to make sure that this doesn’t happen again,” Panetta said.
Since taking over as secretary of defense in 2011, Panetta said that tackling the issue has been a top priority.
“It’s an outrage that we aren’t prosecuting the people involved here,” Panetta said.
Panetta pointed to a number of changes including moving victims away from their assailants, new special victims units and pushing reporting higher up the chain of command. Still, he admitted that for decades this has been a problem the military has been sweeping under the rug.
“We need to improve the investigations. We need to make sure we have these special victims units that do the investigations and we need to ensure that we have prosecutors who are willing to bring these cases to court and make sure that these people don’t get away,” Panetta said.
Editor’s Note: Natalie Morales’ full report aired Thursday, Sept. 27 on NBC’s Rock Center with Brian Williams.
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This is a national disgrace. Heads should roll.
See! Obama does not care about women!
If we can't protect our own daughters, mothers and sisters inside our own military this isn't a country worth defending.
As a vet, and someone, who despises Obama, this is not his fault. This has been a systemic failure, and disgrace, going back decades. I do Panetta makes the necessary changes.
I would also love to see the commanders prosecuted for dereliction of duty.
In the meantime, these cases MUST be taken out of the victim's immediate chain of command.
usunderattack get off the computer and get back to the Flush Limbaugh show......hurry or you will miss the important news he is getting out to the people!
At least Obama would make them have their rapist's baby unlike some people we know.
I am just assuming you are joking.
usunderattack, you're an idiot. Obama's secretary of defense is working to fix a "decades old problem", and somehow it's Obama's fault?
Rape is a serious matter as my first wife was raped while I was away in the military... Not a joking matter when it hits your home.... sigh
@clflan 2-1, So what if another man in the military raped another male, would you say this is a prime example why men should not be in the military?
i guess that's what happens when you allow criminals to join the military. people higher up the chain should be discharged for not taking this crimes seriously. i bet that would make these thugs think twice about raping a fellow soldier.
are we sure 'don't ask don't tell' was repealed..or just redefined.
commanders- don't ask if you're female soldiers were raped
female soldiers- don't tell anyone... it wont do you any good.
What does Obama have to do with this? This was going on a long time before Obama took office. You just sound ignorant!!!
The reason the Marine got away with 18 months in a civilian court was probably because he pled guilty in a case that the prosecution may not have been confident in. Plus we are talking CA aren't we? -- Often times victims put themselves in positions where rape is extremely hard to prove or violate the Commander's orders: It may be against orders for example to have a servicemember of the opposite sex in your room for example. -- One case I am aware of the female had sex with a fellow trainee Friday evening - Sunday morning and told the Commander she was raped by the man because she did not want to have sex with him on Sunday afternoon... how do you convict on that? --- Cases are not cut and dry. I would not want to a Commander in units with men, women and now gays; too often you have to protect people from themselves. -- With regards to Akin's comment that is being referred to: If a woman is not aroused and is raped it is less likely that she will become pregnant... that seems logical to me (I am not a doctor, but it does seem logical to me). In the "old days", rape was exactly that, it was a heinous crime. Now, rape can be a broad expanse of situations/reactions from consentual sex with a girl not as old as you thought she was- to a woman that was seen drinking a beer with you that decides the next day she shouldn't have - or possibly as I am aware of where the woman decided the next day she should not have been with the man she was with the night before...-- Sexual assault is even more ambiguous.
I'm in the military and this is one reason why I also hold a martial arts black belt. Try that sh*t with me if you like your neck broken.
The military has always been an "ol' boys club". They talk a good game about sexual assault and the ramifications on it. Sounds great on paper but in reality the woman is re-victimized by the command and the IG. This has been going on loooong looong before Obama so he's not the blame but he needs to step it up on making sure there is justice for sexual abuse victims. If you're a female in the military either take up a good martial arts course or carry a concealed weapon or both. Remember the battle buddy system. It's put in place for a reason.
BTW, women aren't the only ones who are sexually abused in the military. There are many male on male and yes, even a few female on male sexual abuse. Sounds funny until you're the victim.
underattack - who was president in 2004 when the first attack happened? You jackwagon.
@Carolyn G, I am glad that you can defend yourself under normal circumstances, however, that won't help you if you have been drugged as Ms. Russo was.
In my first post, I left out a word: "I do HOPE Panetta makes the necessary changes."
I don't know if there are more rapes per 1000 people in the military than in the civilian world, and while it would be great if we could get that number down to zero, the part that is most appalling to me is that these women are victimized again.
Carolyn,
That's good, but won't help you if you've been drugged like the Marine in the beginning of the story. Never accept a drink from someone that you didn't see poured. When I was in college, I never took a drink that I didn't pour, open or witness being mixed. I was offered drinks all the times, but I played it smart. And never leave your drink sitting or being watched by a friend.
If any unlawful act is committed on base then the military has the right to handle the situation as it sees fit. BUT local law enforcement agencies should be notified of the issue, situation and supposed perpetrator so if there are others who come forth then obviously the perp is an ongoing problem. Accountability. AND if any law has been broke by any active service personnel off base then the military has to give up any jurisdiction or be negligent. In that case the perpetrator be judged by our system of government. If the military, Defense Department, can't and or refuses to be held in account to the system in place of jurisdiction, then accountability throughout the military is negligent and not there to fight for the Freedom of its country and citizenry. If the military can't or refuses to control OUR servicemen and women. Then WE aren't fighting for Freedom and the rights of all therefor why should any other countries want us on their turf at all?
Don't you know these asinine trolls blame Obama for everything?!
9/11 was Obama's fault.
The Haiti and Japan tsunami's are Obama's fault.
JFK's assassination is Obama's fault.
The Titanic sinking is Obama's fault.
These slow minded people are the kings and queens of DaNile who can't accept the fact that the cronies they support are playing them like a puppet. They won't realize it until it's too late. At that time all I'll do is laugh at them.
Thanks, guys I appreciate the advice but I always buy I rarely visit bars anyway but if I did, I always buy my own drinks.....or hubby does. That's it. Being able to defend oneself also includes situational awareness and a good dose of street smarts.
Other things can also catch you off guard. Cell phones have really diminished people's ability to be aware of their surroundings like when you walk with your head down texting or browsing on your phone or even blasting that Ipod in your ears. If I were the bad guys those people would be easy marks.
@itainyeasy,
What?!?! I mean, WTF?!? A woman getting pregnant has nothing to do with arousal! If she's ovulated and there's an egg in her uterus, it can be fertilized by a man's sperm, regardless of whether she was 'aroused' or not. Are you really that unfamiliar with basic human biology?!?!
As far as your example goes, if the woman had sex with the guy on Friday night, but she didn't want to have sex with him on Sunday, THAT'S HER CHOICE, AND IF THE GUY FORCES HER, THAT'S CALLED RAPE! It doesn't matter what the pre-existing relationship was, one human can't force another human to have sex against their will.
Are you serious!?
Just cut off his balls and penis then throw him in jail for 10 years.
“Once this case goes to the district attorney’s office, Claire, we can’t help you. You know, we can’t protect you.”
This statement does it for me - It doesn't look like they were protecting her or helping in the first place, so why should she trust her commanders?!
I spent 20 years in the military and the one thing I know is that the way they handle things suck. I remember a case where a woman accused her commanding officer of sexual harassment. It was required that another command do the investigation. Yes, another command did and the commanding officer of that command was in an office across the hall from the officer who was being investigated - they were long time golf partners!!! So you can imagine how the investigation went. She ended up being brought up on all sorts of charges and busted down in rank.
I enjoyed the military, but sometimes, some of the people in charge of you weren't meant to be in leadership positions and even worse are the ones who aren't good people.
Carolyn G..it's good to have that black belt experience, but I would also like to add is the fact that in this case he put something in her drink to make her woozy..I have two adult daughters but when they were old enough to start dating, I taught them to never accept a drink from a stranger or a guy, whether it be a coke, water,etc.. unless you actually saw them pour it from an unopen bottle or even if he wants to buy you a drink, just say ok I'll go with you to order it;they might feel intimidated, but too bad...If you leave it to go to the restroom, don't drink it when you come back...Always keep it in your hand or keep an eye on it because there are men out there (not all men) who prey on women in these situations, and you have to look out for yourself.. I call it being street smart....
@itain'teasy - wow, you just put a whole new spin on artificial insemination! From what you're saying, a doctor is going to need to arouse the woman before he can implant the sperm! You slept in biology class, didn't you? Admit it...lol!
Totally agree with you and if it matters, I'm a man and work for the military. The CO's who tried to get her not to report/pursue the rapes should be disqualified and lose his/her command.
Willards etch a sketch---I thought that everything that ever happened in this country going back to 1776 was George Bush's fault?
"Often times victims put themselves in positions"
I stopped reading when I saw the words "put themselves".. You don't have the RIGHT to rape someone under ANY circumstance.. Drugging someone and filming the assaults should make it an open and shut case..
Even if she dressed provocatively and made advances then later wanted nothing to do with it, that DOES NOT give him any right to rape her. It also doesn't mean she asked for it or "put herself" in a position for anything..
This rapist sickness needs to be eradicated from our Military.. These men and women lay down their lives for us and we as a Country should support justice for these victims..
Yeah. Because gawd knows, rapes NEVER happened in the military under Bush's watch, right, chumpy????????
<Rolls Eyes>
What did the ladies expect from the US military? After all, they're just a bunch of horny dogs whom thinks they're entitled to some sexual favors, just because they work for the fascist NEOCON US military.
If the US military could do this to one of their own, imagine how many have gotten away for rape, torture, & murder of innocent civilians around the world? THe US military is what you call a true "communist enterprise" in disguise...no wonder the world hates America.
He pro'ly got out after 18 mos due to "good behavior" and "prison overcrowding" which give the warden, not the judge, the option of releasing a prisoner after serving at least half their sentence.
My girlfriend is training to be a marine right now so this story hits close to home.
@Laulaus,
You should never stop reading. Yes, oftentimes the victims put themselves in the position of being the victims of unprovable crimes. In every command I've been in, having an opposite gender service member in your room was against regulation. That makes it THAT much harder to prove rape when you violate regulation to bring the perpetrator into your room. No one has the right to rape anyone at any time, and the post that you didn't read didn't say that. What it did say was that the military isn't ALWAYS at fault for the crime not being prosecuted or reported. If you intentionally violate regulations then you fear the repercussions. I have seen this first hand. The one experience I had with rape in the military. She felt she couldn't report it strictly because she violated regulations to bring him into her room.
Here's one more point to make, the rapist was also a fellow officer - obviously because her commander didn't bring anything up about fraternization. Believe me, it makes a BIG difference in the military if you are an enlisted member or an officer being accused of something.
I got accused of not doing my job on a mid watch once. The day staff got in at 0730 and called me to come in at 0800. During that 30 minutes, they had to discover what made them think I wasn't doing my job, investigate it, determine I was guilty, write up my report and call me in. You can see the amount of time and effort put into trying to see if I was guilty or that it may have been something else. Luckily I had about 2 weeks to investigate everything myself and within a few hours I discovered a computer problem that caused exactly what I was being accused of. But I wanted to make it all overwhelming so broadened my research so it covered an entire month and went through over 800,000 lines of data. So, after a struggle, they were finally forced to drop everything, and that wasn't easy to come by either.
Obama had nothing to do with this. Dont try to hang this on him. This has been happening for years and no one has done anything. God forbid one of the military sexual predators get a bad rap!
I think there should be stronger back grounds done for those who join the military..especially officers and especially their sexual background behavior.
What gets me is when you got other soldiers calling the person who was raped all kinds of sluts and whores etc. Thats just stupid and ignorant!
This guy should be glad she didnt hunt his butt down and casterate him.
After all he had it coming..he deserved it... he was asking for it....sounds pretty disqusting coming from the other side doesnt it?
If she said no and he didn't take that as an answer, then it's rape regardless of what occurred previously, and should be prosecuted as such.
There is a such thing as innocence. People responding act like all of these people are telling the truth. I understand that there needs to be change, i just hope that we don't go on a witch hunt and charge and convict every male that a woman makes an accusation against.
While serving in the army, i knew of a woman who was cheating on her husband with a fellow soldier. When she went home on leave she told him the truth. He contacted the army. When she was confronted with the accusation of cheating on her husband, she claimed that she was raped. Later she admitted that that was a lie, but not after the other soldiers reputation had been ruined. He ended up getting a demotion in rank and she got discharged. She should have faced jail time. These women need to realize how serious a charge rape is and not use it anytime they see fit.
I agree with Carolyn G., part of being in the military is being aware of your surroundings. I was in the Army and in basic they even told us to be cautious in bars. We too had a battle buddy system where nobody would even speak to us unless we had a same-gendered battle buddy present. This was to protect everyone. I never finished basic but when I got home, I received a call from a third-party company wanting to know if I had been sexually assaulted during my time there. (This was in 1996, don't know how things are now).
I understand there are good and bad people in all branches of the military, but if I was still in the military, I would never socialize in a bar with people I don't know, and certainly no ROOM PARTIES with people I just met. I rarely drink, because I don't like to feel sluggish in my reactions in public.
One finaly thought: Many people who are NCOs are there in the military to get out of their lives, to get away from something. For me it was to get away from an abusive family. But my point is, there are others there that have no sense of honor or decency, and are in fact highly functioning sociopaths. I was aware of this going in. It was very apparently when I got there. There were good people, but there was a large part of the population there that were bad apples.
Seriously cowrowntrucker!!!!!!!! you are one sick mofo...It DOES NOT matter male or female agree with everything & then when you want more they say no,,,NO NO NO NO NO NO..no means no...if that means you have blue balls or go whack off in the bathroom then that is what you have to do but NOBODY has the right to rape anyone even if you thought you were "going to get some"
Doesn't it kind of go without saying that a person has to "put him/herself in a dangerous situation" if danger occurs? I mean, if you are living in a bunker that you never leave, keep the doors sealed, and so forth . . . well, you won't be putting yourself into much danger, now will you?
If a business owner chooses to drive his/her car to a bank to make a deposit of the day's receipts to a bank, and someone comes up at robs that person at gunpoint, shoots him/her, and leaves him/her for dead . . . well, that person chose to drive the car to the bank with money. That person "willingly" put him/herself into danger. Still, this is a pretty normal activity that most of us do (if we own businesses), and most of us accept that there is a certain amount of risk involved in everyday life.
The question here is why it is considered "dangerous" for a person to go to an official party and accept a drink from a person who has been introduced to her by her cousin and agree to go to an informal after-party. This is "dangerous"? I mean, yes, she wound up in danger and being harmed . . . but unless a person isn't going to socialize at all or is going to be constantly treating all men everywhere as if they are potential rapists . . . well, not a lot of dating is going to be going on even if this means that there would be fewer such incidents (maybe). Shall all women refuse to leave their homes unless someone else is driving and they are with a male family member?
Now, if a woman decides to get involved with OJ Simpson when/if he gets out of jail and gets beaten up or murdered--well, there's a certain degree to which I'm not going to sympathize much with the woman even if I would support OJ going right back to jail. Whether or not I sympathize with the woman has nothing to do with whether or not OJ is guilty--he's still guilty whether or not the woman was stupid.
So, even if we accept the idea that it is dumb to accept a drink from someone you have been properly introduced to or to agree to go to an after-party with a fellow professional to whom you have been properly introduced (though that seems like something of a stretch to me), this has no bearing on whether or not the person is guilty if that person choses to harm you.
I do understand the principle that some people do really dumb stuff that puts them in danger--but that doesn't mean that it is fine for criminals to victimize this person. If a person really believes this, then that person has a criminal mentality--because criminals typically believe that the people whom they victimize "did it to themselves." They don't take responsibility for what they've done.
I have read cases in which I thought--"well, what did you think was going to happen?"--in a case where a person wound up being harmed. But, I never once thought that this meant that the criminal shouldn't be prosecuted. I fail to see why anyone would think that. It really boggles the imagination.
My daughter wants to sign up ,I will work hard to steer her away.
@Lusitania, are you serious? There is no better way to show your love for you country than to fight to protect what it stands for. I guess you think all women who are in the military get raped. I hope she doesn't listen to you.
You can look at the military today and see that it isn't anything but a workplace. You would expect higher standards, there are none. You would expect disciplined behavior. People see it as this "defending freedom" platform. Yes and no. Only fools put their daughters into this environment. But let's not think that society isn't to blame. Until we seek excellence, women will always get played, men will always target vulnerability.
But to place women into the sausage fest aka the military, is asking for life changing problems. It is unfortunate. But the military breeds invincibility, but without the higher calling. Therefore entitlement comes to those ment. And when they leave, men or women, entitlement remains a focal point.
Warfighters, warriors- they have sacrificed to be sure. But the military has a support mechanism 18:1 for that 1 warfighter. The military is a workplace for those seeking employment. No problem with that. But to create a low-life collective mindset, where one would expect discipline is unfortunately a reality.
I would ask for numbers in other developed nation's military. I bet the contrast exists.
enough is enough
Todd 'idiot" Akin would like to know if it was a legitimate rape.
it's not legitimate rape, she and other victims were unconscious when the sperms entered their body so they could not consciously activate the minions of sperm-fighter batallions in their uterus.
The institutional problems are what need to be corrected -- start prosecuting senior officers for not doing their duty and reduce their ranks, retire others, and throw some into the brig and this problem will disappear. Ignorant comments that are irrelevant to the matter being discussed aren't helpful, John Batner.
His comment is actually extremely relevant. Todd Akin's thinking apparently infects many in the US military who seem to think rape isn't a "real" crime...
You took the words right out of my mouth....
Thanks for stating the obvious CME
CME - yup, excellent point. Those commanders failed their troops, and they definitely don't deserve to lead if that's the way they're going to handle these situations.
I know that the "morning after" pill would not be applicable in Claire Russo's case. However, I wonder how many military women who were raped were denied access to it.
And I have no doubt that the pundits such at Rush Limbaugh have this report filed with Sandra Fluke's and her testimony of trying to get insurance to pay for medicine for ovarian cysts.
This is a prime example of why we should not allow women in the Armed Services.
Some GOP members probably would tell you it wasn't rank. They'd make you believe it was someone's private was at attention, and she was performing an inspection.
If legal justice doesn't work, the only option is street justice.
This is why we need Lorena Bobbit back in business this will end for sure...I bet cha" :):):)
What seems really shocking to me is that they found videos of this guy raping multiple women, and he only served 18 months in prison! This dude is pretty clearly a serial rapist, needs to be locked up for good!
How about prosecuting commanders for covering up criminal activity? That is ‘conduct unbecoming’ if I've ever heard it! How about having an independent police unit (on every base) investigate instead of letting commanders decide whether or not to prosecute. The problem is fixable. It only takes a decision to fix it!
So you are claiming that women should not be allowed to serve their country with pride because sadistic male animals hiding behind the uniform of a military serviceman cannot be trusted not to viciously attack the women they're serving with? They "just can't control themselves"?
How did these rapists ever make it past the psych eval to enlist in the military? Or was the service just so plain desperate for more cannon fodder that they just didn't care?
Your comment is a prime example of why we should not allow morons, RePUGs and moronic RePUGs to breathe. You should try out a remarkable device known as a "calendar". It's the 21st century, not the 19th. Women are free to do all kinds of jobs, they do not "just have to" sit at home watching soap operas, baking cookies and waiting for Daddy to come home anymore.
sad story, sorry for your loss. 18 months for forcible sodomy is not justice! 18 months tied up on all fours in a cage with other rapists, would be more appropriate. unfortunately, rape is not all they get away with. a wreckless marine killed my son and got to go home to mommy and daddy! with all due respect to those who serve honorably, as long as these animals and their coward commanders can hide under "sovereign immunity" they will never be held accountable, and, sadly, these and other crimes will go unheeded. google the "feres doctrine". they, like royalty, are protected from the petty accusations of us little people, and most never have to answer for their crimes. my son sacrificed his life for our freedoms, not to be run over and tossed in a ditch like a stray dog. good for you for making one of them pay! i call on all honorable servicemen and women to call out the pervs, the monsters, the homophobic momma's boys; the only way to beat a bully is by standing up to them! my guess is he sodomized her, because his pecker wasn't big enough to be felt anywhere else...he definitely has balls the size of peanuts. Dowson, you are a coward, and not worthy to be called a marine. Look me up, punk, I've got a score to settle with you in-bred mutants masquerading as marines. i hear a major university is looking for a few good men like you to "work" with underprivileged boys, you know, in the shower!
You are one F*&&^% hell of a guy to say that. If men in the military can't keep their dick zipped inside their pants, then they shouldn't join the military. If you have urge to let your biological feelings out in a closed confines such as military base, a bar, a ship or submarine in the high seas, etc., then go to the bathroom and do whatever you need to do. Don't insert your rotten rod into woman's body without her consent.
How difficult is that for folks to understand? Got that?
Tea Sucks, your post said it all, thank you.
Question: If the women who have enlisted in the military cannot defend themselves against rape, how do they intend to be strong in a combat situation?
clflan, your logic is flawed. Are you saying that these women asked to be raped, because they enlisted?
Stop trolling and being such a jerk. Last time I checked there was no need to be able to prevail in a fist fight when a woman is flying a fighter aircraft, or driving a tank, or supplying our troops. Your blatant sexist remark is ugly and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Again, our country isn't worth defending if this is the way we treat our women.
JmB66: "Question: If the women who have enlisted in the military cannot defend themselves against rape, how do they intend to be strong in a combat situation?"
Jm, all military recruits, including women, are issued weapons, for the purpose of combat with the enemy, so perhaps these these same weapons should be used in defense of those who are supposed to be comrades.
Ka-Blam!
This is a prime example of why we should not allow women in the Armed Services.
So CLFLAN2-1... if a female teacher or stockbroker or doctor is unfortunately raped at their place of occupation, we should no longer consider those jobs OK for females also?
As a male who spent 30 + years on active duty, I can honestly say you do not have a clue. The military is a much better place because of its' inclusiveness.
Answer: Maybe because they were drugged? You can't really fight back when you're unconscious. Also, when you are pushed to the ground and have someone on top of you, it's very hard to get them off. It's nothing like a combat situation, so don't compare it to that.
This story is disgusting and any officer that would let this happen to anyone male or female is a poor officer and a criminal. Our military does some good things but the attitude toward sexual assaults reminds me of the fundamentalist wackos we are fighting today. It's just disgusting to blame the victims of rape-disgusting.
There are so many high school boneheads in the military like you wouldn't believe it. Yes it's true, the US military are filled with obnoxious perverts and bigots alike!
How about prosecuting commanders for covering up criminal activity? That is ‘conduct unbecoming’ if I've ever heard it! How about having an independent police unit (on every base) investigate instead of letting commanders decide whether or not to prosecute. The problem is fixable. It only takes a decision to fix it!
Another sad story and another young person's life ruined. But then again, what was she expecting? The stuff their recruiters told her?
@Jim-346431: Totally agree...once the commanders are on the hook...trust me their tone would change in a big way.
It is an outrage that our military allows women to be abused, raped and treated as second class citizens. Until we as a nation allow our women to serve their country without being exploited in return, it's not a nation worth defending.
Jim - The idea of independent investigators seems to be what these "Special Victims Units" will be. The trick will be insuring that female troops' careers aren't hurt and that they do not suffer harassment from their fellow soldiers for going to one of those units. You're also absolutely right: Commanders' feet need to be held to the fire. They've preferred sweeping things under the rug in the past because they feared the potential professional repercussions of dealing with prosecuting a rape case. Now make them DEFINITELY suffer repercussions if they don't take the accusations very seriously.
Max - "What was she expecting?" Are you saying that every woman that joins the military should be signing up with the mentality of "Oh, I'm probably gonna get raped?"
Incidentally, the first victim in this article was an officer from an ROTC program...they don't usually go through recruiters in the traditional sense.
Are you kidding, Max? . There is a hell of a difference between not getting posted to the specialty that the recruiter 'promised' and having someone's dick jammed in an orifice without your willingness or consent.
Any person who has sex with a person that does not want to have sex with them is not a man and should not call himself one.
Throw the rapist in federal prison for about 20 years at hard labor; Relieve the Commander for Cause and retire him "for the good of the service" in about 20 or so cases and watch the environment change.
@ Max 108: Are you kidding me?? What was she expecting? I believe she was expecting to serve her country with honor and dignity, not being raped by fellow servicemembers.
I am not in any way condoning the rape. Perish the thought! I believe that all rapists should be castrated with a broken beer bottle and then shot. I am merely saying that most young people enter US military with notions that have very little to do with reality on the ground. I know several young men, friends of my children, who got a very rude awakening once they joined and have never been the same. Any girl entering US military should have been amply warned about the risks of rape and other types of abusive behavior that are commonplace in US military. But how can you make your recruiting quota if you actually tell these young people THE TRUTH? So the principle 'buyer beware!' applies to this young lady as well.
Others have commented that this is somehow President Obama's fault. It is not. This type of thing has been happening for as long as there have been U.S. military forces.
Yes, that's right. There are men who are the survivors of sexual abuse, sexual harassment, and rape while serving in the U.S. military.
The VA has been learning about that for at least the last 15 years – as more and more veterans come forward with mental health issues related to in-service sex crimes.
Anyone who served in the military, and who was sick or injured or sexually abused while in the military, and those issues are causing “pain or discomfort” today, can file a claim with the VA.
It is best not to file a claim on one’s own. Free help is available with “Service Organizations” such as Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, Disabled American Veterans, Vietnam Veterans of America, etc.
Each organization has a “service officer” who has training in filing claims with the VA. There is no charge for help with filing a VA claim. (However, there are private "helpers," such as attorneys, that do charge fees for their services. Stay away from them!)
Winning a VA claim can be a life changing event. It cannot change the past, but it can help make the future better. A claim rated at 100% pays $2,769 per month.
All of the female veterans mentioned in this article should file a claim with the VA. They can do that by going to the nearest "federal building," and seek the services of one of the above mentioned service organizations.
What do you expect when you pay below minimum wages.
What needs to happen is Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service and or the Selective Service as promised by Candidate Obama to end the repeated Deployments of the 1% of Citizens of the US Military as his Solution to Force the 92% that have NEVER Served to do their "Fair Share" as "US Military Service is a Civic Duty" and "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement". I was laughing at the expression on Senator McPain's Face.
The Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service and or Selective Service if implemented my be without Exemptions, Deferments, etc.. You Dodge your US Citizen Civic Duty, that US Citizenship is removed PERMANENTLY (no amnesty later). This would also include Women, current Politicians, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters, College Students, etc. (I was not kidding about No Exemptions and No Deferments). Like before what this does is bring into the US Military the broad spectrum of the US Citizens, and not only those that volunteer to possibly get killed while being paid below a minimum wage.
And do not even attempt the lame excuses and tell me things like, "too old", "physically disabled", etc. there are other positions we can put you into; that will make more available for other duties. Let us get rid of all the too expensive overpaid US Civilians and we will replace them with you (US Military Personnel, Selective Service and or Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service). "Too Old" fine we place you in the US Military Dining Facilities; "Physically Disabled" you can stare at Security Monitors all day; etc., you can all do your "US Military Service is a Civic Duty".
Then instead of the "exception" the US Military becomes a true Representation of the Population of the US. Not to marginalized these Violent Crimes within the US Military; Look at the incompetence of US Civilians, what is the Daily incidents of similar Crimes and the Prosecution Rates.
Commanders are supposed to be Ultimately Responsible, Held Accountable and Liable. However, that starts at the Top, and most of you are worse than the Islamic Jihadists in your defense of President Obama (US Military Commander In Chief) Wrong or Right to your Deaths.
How many of YOU have been Commanding Officers. Just like Great, Good, Average, Crappy US Civilian Managers there are the same as Commanding Officers (again what do you expect to attract paying way below minimum wages or below the bottom of the US Civilian Counterparts).
From the Very Beginning most US Civilians, as well as the US Military Officers FAIL. Why because the US Civilians, and the New US Military Officers have a Misperception as to what a US Military Officer even is supposed to be as dictated by the US Civilian Control Over the US Military.
I have previously attempted to tell all of you on Newsvine what this Duty of US Military Officer is as stated in writing ; with the response being STFU. So fine you figure out what the written Duties of US Military Officers are.
Pertaining to US Military Commanding Officers, what is overlooked here, is what the Experienced US Military Commanding Officers do; First, Reading thru the UCMJ; Second, seeking Legal Counsel thru the Staff Judge Advocate General (US Military Lawyers) to see if they even have a Case, as the Commanding Officer usually cannot get directly involved with the Case, resulting in a Ruling of Undue Command Influence and the possibly Guilty getting Exonerated; the Staff Judge Advocate then contacts the US Military Investigative Authorities (Law Enforcement).
These US Military Investigative Authorities then recommend to the Prosecution of the Staff Judge Advocate General if they have a Prosecuteable Case or Not based on Sufficent Physical Evidence. The Staff Judge Advocate General then informs the US Military Commanding Officer. The Commanding Officer then informs all Parties involved, informs them of their Rights including being scheduled to see the Lawyers of the Staff Judge Advocate General, this is on a written form signature required and copies provided to all involved; that includes the scheduled appointment date, time, phone number of the Staff Judge Advocate General; the Commanding Officer can delegate informing those involved to other Subordinate Officers (based on Grade) or Senior NCOs (based on Rank), this is still the Ultimate Responsibility of the Commanding Officer.
Unlike the US Civilian "No Fault" Mentality, those Cases that are lost by a Commanding Officer do directly affect that US Military Officer's Career and it does not matter of the Prosecution of the Staff Juddge Advocate General srewed up, there are no excuses; just like False Accusations do affect the Accuser(s) US Military Career.
TOUGH LUCK PRESIDENT OBAMA IS THE US MILITARY COMMANDER IN CHIEF.
What do YOU think the Result of having More Deployments and Longer Tours is, due to President Obama as Commander In Chief Ordered Reduction In Forces of 90,000 US Military Personnel has been, with the remaining US Military (that survived the RIF) also getting even LESS Logistics, Supply, Transportation, Maintenance, Food Service, Sanitation Services, etc. since a 108,000 US Civilians that provided these Services are also being thrown on Unemployment.
The Upcoming Automatic US Defense Budget Cuts of 11% according to President Obama and Secretary of Defense Leon Penetta, "A (US) Defense Budget Cut of 10% will result in a Million (US) Civilians becoming Unemployed"; and yet President Obama demanded this 11% Defense Budget Cut (and YOU don't even know why do YOU, and I do know why).
THAT IS ALL ON PRESIDENT OBAMA AS US MILITARY COMMANDER IN CHIEF.
And as far as Recorded History EVERYTIME after a War, there is a US Defense Budget Cut, the first to suffer are those of the US Military paid below minimum wages, while the almost hundred million overpaid too expensive US Civilians employed directly or indirectly by the US Military are protected by US Congress (US Jobs in their States), then the Veterans Affairs Budget Cuts, then the US Military ends up with crap that is not needed manufacturered by overpaid too expensive US Civilians also protected by US Congress (Jobs in their States), decreased US Military Veterans Benefits, etc.. President Obama repeating the SAME mistakes and expecting different RESULTS.
David-475776, YOU ARE AN IDIOT.
IT seems the NCO's and Company grade officers are no longer in charge of their units. A previous article highlighted a story where aGeneral was brought back to DC who has been raping people. A General ! Remeber the nasty filthy conditions at Walter Reed where wounded troops were patients ? Another where a Captain "asked" a troop to remove a swastika from his locker. I imagine this happened in front of other troops. Not a good example of leadership. Not sure when the military switched from tellin to "askin" but it was a huge mistake. You want your troops to be lean mean fightin machines. Able to jump from a plane or helo into fire, able to follow orders and move on a field being targeted by weapons. You want fighters to be more afraid of the NCO than the enemy until they get trained enough to trust each other and the gunners behind em covering for them. That is a special kind of person. But you have to control them. There are methods. But officers askin troops ain't the way. A strong NCO corps (picture Arlee Ermy, or Eastwood) is where you get control. The recent generation being politically correct, loaded with geeks and techies and bureaucrats on one hand and neo-nazi wannabees on the other hand and an NCO/Officer corps that knows the quickest way to end a career is to grab a troop by the collar and kick em in the rear and you have an out of control collection of uniform wearers with no pride except false pride. These guys will rape your daughter ! Seems all the squared away, smart and strong warriors with leadership ability go to special ops. These officers, even as high as Colonels and Generals refusing to deal with rape as a violent dispicable crime need to get the heck out and they can leave their pensions behind.
Romney2016 beat me to it...you really are an Idiot!
The RIF (Reduction in Force) was initiated AFTER we ended combat operation in Iraq. In fact, if you want to place blame for repeat deployments, blame your hero GW Bush. We never needed to be in Iraq. By the way, RIFs happen at the end of every major military operation. I've personally worked through 3 of them.
The cuts in Defense are part of the Sequestration. Have you ever heard of that? Probably not. The Sequestration is across the board cuts to the entire Federal Government. The Democrats were forced to agree to the Sequestration when the Tea Party Freshmen in the Congress refused to increase the Debt Limit. Want to blame someone for the Defense cuts...blame your heroes the TeaBaggers.
As to your comment about who ends up being hurt by the budget cuts to defense...you know nothing...nothing! First of all this will be an across the board cut. E-7s will be cut just like E-1s, otherwise you create a top heavy organization unable to accomplish their mission...but don't let that get in the way of your little story. Defense contracts will not be renewed and that is no doubt what you and your neo-conservative friends are really concerned about. as to the rest of your dribble...it was exactly that...dribble.
Yep. That's the military for you. Especially the Marine Corps.
Ol_Doc,
Your ignorance is ignorance; no right to believe anything can be derived from it. - Sigmund Freud
And who was US President in 2011.
FYI, if you believe that "Combat Operations" in Iraq ended you are sadly mistaken. 16,000 - 1,500 US Embassy Personnel at Iraq.
Really, you worked thru 3 of them (NOT). How about telling everyone where the US Military withdrawn from Iraq went to after going to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, and DO NOT SAY CONUS. And don't say "Classified" because it is NOT.
You know so much (NOT) what DATE did President Obama as Commander In Chief Order the RIF of 90,000 US Military Personnel and the layoffs of 108,000 US Civilians employed by the US Military.
SO FULL OF IT THAT YOUR EYES ARE BROWN. President Obama proposed in a Presidential Proposal the Sequestration, if the US Congressional Committee could not find the US Budget Cuts to pay for his previously Not Budgeted For (AGAIN YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT WAS NOT PREVIOUSLY BUDGETED FOR, REQUIRING THE CURRENT BUDGET CUTS OF PREVIOUSLY BUDGET FOR).
It is a US Congressional Record of who did what when, as also reported by the Federal Times, Army Times, Air Force Times, Marine Corps Times, Navy Times, all the US Military Publications, US Military Professional Journals, D.C. News, etc..
We needed to go into Northern Iraq to finish the job of eliminating the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada, many Islamic Jihadists that escaped to Northern Iraq via the Old Silk Road after we (NOT YOU) did this to them starting October 2001:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arxKhJIjIiY
In 2002 we (NOT YOU) did exactly that after the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada, many Islamic Jihadists that escaped us at Afghanistan became Ansar Al Islam at Northern Iraq. Before we could kill all of them with extreme prejudice they were given Fundamentalist Islamic Sanctuary by the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran; and they escaped us again, and later went back to Afghanistan.
Then our Mission was changed to accomplish President Clinton's US Law, H.R. 4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Justification Section 2 Weapons of Mass Destruction, Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein. Those of us that knew from previous experience knew that President Hussein was the counter balance to the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran protested in writing and were threatened with charges of "Insubordination", I still have a Letter of Reprimand in my Restricted Personnel File.
President Clinton's H.R. 4655 becomes US Military 2002 Operation Iraqis Freedom.
Our (NOT YOUR) first target was the Iraqis Chemical Weapons Facility at Sargat Iraq.
WRONG AGAIN, WHAT IS THE DATE TIME GROUP OF THE CURRENT DOD CRITERIA FOR THE RIF.
SO DON'T EVEN TELL ANYONE YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THOSE MATTERS YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT.
How does it go?
'The Few, the Brave, the Marines"? Bunch of macho Neanderthals who still live in the stone age.
*The Few, the Proud, the Marines. And we're not ALL that bad. Just like all liberals aren't pot smoking hippies and anti-gun nuts.
It's, "The Few, The Proud, The Marines".
"The Proud" really comes into question here. I would think a Marine wouldn't have much trouble getting a date but it appears they would prefer to take the easy way out.
What I don't understand is the 18 months time served when they found the cameras and videos in his apartment. After all that they only prosecuted for the one rape?
Exactly my question Browns Backer. How was this guy not tried as a serial rapist and thrown in prison for life??
You are an idiot, Rasputin2589057. Thanks for showing your @ss to us all. By the way, I'm sure you're aware that your name sake had the same high moral standards as the rapists in the military. Hmmmmm.
Again: You're an idiot.
The problem is not that all military personnel are rapists. The problem is that the small percentage of them who are rapists are allowed to get away with it, which means they are able to commit their crimes over and over and over again.
This happens in all branches of service not just the Marines.
Brokinarrow,
Yes, but if there was truly HONOR amongst the REST of the Marines who serve with a$$hole$ like Dowson, THEY would see that justice was served. Otherwise, "semper fi" is MEANINGLESS! They are leaving a wounded Marine on the battlefield otherwise!
Sadly Browns Backer, even with all that evidence, the women in question have to press charges for any prosecution to go forward. The guy's probably still doing this after his pathetically light plea bargain and sentence.
Ladies, get your Scissors ready...is time for cooking...learn from mama Lorena...trust me this will end...
birdpilot - Totally agree with you. If it happened in my unit and the dude got off so lightly, I'd make sure the platoon paid his ass a visit once he was out of jail.
"The Few, the Brave, the Cornholers"
@ Tranquil - If you're going to parody something, at least get the rest of the moto right... -_-
parody fail
You said, "I would think a marine would not have trouble getting a date but it appears they would prefer to take the easy way out??" RAPE has nothing to do with dating!
A rape is a violent assault. Does a normal date end in one being pinned to the floor and being sodomized?
Rape is Rape is Rape!
There's no such thing as forcable rape...contrary to what that senate hopeful, lunatic Todd Akin had to say.
Gangbangers in uniforms. I think the tattoos rot the brains.
Menoseeno - Now your stereotyping is beginning to offend me.
Seemingly unconsciense is not enough. They would need these women to come forward to prosecute anything.
It is truly disgusting and they are finding out that the numbers of women and men that are sexually assaulted is in the tens of thousands. Now that is just wrong. Sickening and wrong. I understand commraderie, but assault on a man or a woman, like this, is disgusting and vile and it has to stop. People in some states get thrown in jail for a year for smoking pot and this lunatic Dawson gets 18 months. Ummm...there is something very wrong with this picture.
Obviously the problem is with a minority of servicemen that have predatory sexist attitudes. However, just like the Catholic church covers the rape of children the military protects the rapists.
The problem is institutionalized sexism in the military and the only way to solve the problem is to aggressively prosecute sex offenders. I was in the Navy and believe me they could do it if the leadership had the will. Clearly, the leadership also suffers from sexist bigotry as well and must be purged to protect female citizens that choose to server their country in the military.
This is a national disgrace that it allows to continue.
Brokinarrow,, not condoning anything here, but if he is sodomizing all these women, could it be that he was once sodomized himself; therefore the platoon would only get him excited! Just for thought?
Overlord: I totally agree that prosecution and punishment is needed in all cases. Problem is, military commanders (mostly male) have a difficult time dealing with sexual issues, despite Uniform Code of Military Justice laws that apply. Their education and training leave them squeamish at best. And, this was true with the TailHook scandals in the Navy.
However, unless the SecDef and Joint Chiefs provide direct and unambiguous guidelines on sexual matters.....subordinate commanders end up walking on eggs. And, I used to see this all the time, in the Corps. A commander may be enraged, morally, by a sexual abuse case and then goes overboard trying to be objective about the final action on a court martial.
And this doesn't just apply to hetero sexual crimes, it applies to alternate lifestyle violations. In the male community, attempts often result in the male acting inappropriately towards a hetero, finding himself falling down a flight of stairs. It is harder to prosecute in the female military community.
So, without a complete revamp of directives regarding sexual crimes, local commanders are left to try to sort out how to handle it. And, I remember one incident when a base commanding general, passed a sexual assault case, to a colonel(regimental commander) who in turn passed it back in the lap of a battalion commander(lieutenant colonel) and that LtCol., was left with questions regarding prosecuting to the full extent of the UCMJ. And, I don't doubt the LtCol. felt his fitness reports would reflect pro or con depending on how he solved the legal process.
S/F, Da Gunny
"The Few, the Proud, the Gangbangers"
Read and Comprehend post #3.11.
Typical 92% of US Citizens that have NEVER Served in the US Military. See DOD Policy regarding Gang Member Related Tattoos.
The problem here is that most of you think people are actively protecting rapists. That's not the case. The system is broken and needs to be fixed. Here is what is really happening:
The commander of the perpetrator is the one who decides whether or not to try the perpetrator. If the victim is not in his unit, then he doesn't know the victim. This is a conflict of interest. He is biased regarding whether or not to press charges. A) He knows the perp, and already has a solidified belief regarding his character. B) Charging the perp affects his deployment capabilities.
If the command already has an extremely high estimation of the perpetrator, then they are much less likely to believe the victim. (This is normal human behavior... it is also why judges have to recuse themselves from cases where they know one of the parties personally.) Know one would trust a judge who already had a personal relationship with the accused. The same is true here. It's nothing sinister, just a broken system that needs to weed out human error.
Another issue that is involved is that if the commander knows the victim, then he is likely aware of portions of her sexual history. This is something that's generally not allowed in court because it unfairly biases the jury. If the victim has a history of one night stands, then he is less likely to believe her. That doesn't mean she wasn't raped. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be prosecuted. It means that normal human nature is to reach conclusions based on what you know of the accused and the victim.
The solution is to remove anyone who knows victim and accused from the investigation and prosecution process. This will make it fair. This will make it better. Unfortunately, the military isn't structured that way. It's structured to deal with as much in house as possible. It will take an order from the top to change that.
Re-ality-check, you're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
Tranquil Nihilist banned, multiple Bhut Hole also banned. Unvalidated multiple was named 'ObamaMustDie' - reported that to authorities.
Wrong from the very Start. The Commanding Officer of the suspect does NOT decide anything, that is up to the Proscution of the Staff Judge Advocate General, based on the Investigations of US Military Law Enforcement, sometimes including the FBI and other US Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies.
Absolutely the right thing to do!!! HERE HERE
David475: While you are correct I would say that is the problem. It explains why the NCO and Officer corp are no longer in charge of personnel and the units the way they were once before. IT's why there is so much rape, property crimes, non-sexual violent assault, corruption etc. For sure a Commander should be able to prosecute. This is the military not a community gathering taking suggestions from the league of women voters. The commander knows he has a criminal in his ranks he ought to file charges and the JAG should do the prosecuting on the Commander's say so. The MP's/detectives do the investigating and gathering of eveidence. OF course such a system means you have to have Commanders promoted by competent seniors who pick competent commanders. Socially engineered promotions create the need to take power, authority and responsibility away from commanders. The officer corps is not just a bunch of navigators and travel agents getting the troops to their general destination and make sure there is food. The word Commander should mean what it meant say back in 1944 when the US was kicking butt quite successfully. Keep looking for bureaucrats to show you how to get your job done and you will always be up to your chin in problems.
How sad that any woman has to endure this type of repeated assualt. First by the rapist and then by the military. Stay strong ladies, hopefully you will get the justice you deserve and see these rapists behind bars.
While I believe a woman can do most anything a man can do and a lot of things that a man cannot do, that does not mean they should. My personal belief is that women have no business in the military, and now a days there are a lot of pansies that have no business in the military. I do however believe that any man who assaults a woman in any way, shape, or form deserves to be executed. This man and any man that has been found guilty without a doubt needs to be executed. The problem we face is that normally it is her word against his, and in todays immoral world where the devient sexuals acts that in the past were though to be a crime they are now considered acceptable. I believe with our current military leaders and the President we now have because of very poor leadership the American armed forces do not have the respect it used to have. Suicide's are increasing in the military, homosexuals are encourged to flaunt their new found freedom to express their devient life and the heterosexual soldiers have no choice but to live with it and it is extremely depressing for them. America is lost to its immorality and I do not believe it can ever return. I know of several men who are leaving the military because of DADT being over turned and I know several young men who were going to enlist but have now decided not to because of this same reason. Its one thing to suspect a person is a homosexual and let things be what they are, but and it is another for that person to shout it out and to rub it in your face.
Infantile
To continue and to bring up a case in point, there was a story not to long ago about a female officer being promoted to a general, she had been in the military for 15-20 years, she came out and admited that she was a lesbian and had a lesbian partner for a very long time, she was being praised for being a great role model for women in the military, it was praise that she did not deserve as she was a liar and a cheat. Back in the day when she had enlisted it was against the law for a person to join the military and be a homosexual and the military did ask you if you were one, if she had said she was, then she would not have been allowed to join, so in effect she lied, and lived a lie for all those years. I do not believe she went all those years with no one knowing that she was a lesbian, but since she undoubly did not fluant it and did not make it a focus point she was not discharged. The fact that she was a lesbian was not made an issue. The present government that overturned the DADT rule was wrong to do that. I was brought up to love the person but to hate the sin, thats what I have tried to do. That being said I do not knowingly associate myself with homosexuals who openly fluant it and want to force theri immoral life on me or influnce my children.
Jerry, you do realize that everything you describe except the repeal of DADT was happening before Obama became president, right?
When the main concern of the military is to get more military members (in order to wage war), you will end up with a certain percentage of people who should not be in the military. Recruiters have been telling potential recruits the best and none of the worst as well as telling them that if they have a diagnosed medical problem (like mild anxiety or depression) that they should keep their mouths shut and have it diagnosed by a military doctor after they're in! This happened to a close friend of mine during Bush's presidency. Thankfully he washed out of Basic Training.
To make this clear, I'm not pinning this on Bush. For all I know, Clinton or some other president could have allowed this. My point is, it wasn't Obama that began the long, slow process of disabling our military with people who shouldn't be there.
Jerry,
Im glad people like you are quickly becoming a minority. No women in the military, kill guys that harm a woman, and somehow people living how they want is rubbing it in your face. You have serious issues to work out.
How can you even compare these things. And, your stance on women in the military is from the dark ages. I certainly hope you don't raise your children to be as bigoted and racist as yourself. It also says in the Bible, Judge Not, Lest ye be judged..."
Jerry, no one is shoving anything in your face! You disapprove and therefore wish to believe things are "shoved" in your face.
Every human being deserves to live the life they dream of, it's their God given right. For you and people of your mindset, you want to pick and choose who gets to do what. To this, I say to you, "who made you king, who made you sovereign ruler of making decisions for certain individuals?"
You have gone off the rails if you really believe homosexuals are "flaunting" in the military! Homosexuals are not the enemy, they come in peace, trust me. It's the rapists, terrorists and criminals, they're the enemy.
You are just a few short steps away from saying things like, "what was she wearing? maybe she deserved it?"
Ignore the Jerry's of the world, women have just as much legal right to defend their country in the military as any man. Besides, despite Jerry's neanderthal rants WE NEED women in the military. I have no tolerance for ignorant haters like Jerry.
Jerry-1927474,
GET OVER YOURSELF. I have been a Very Longtime Advocate of the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA), as Equal Rights means Equal Responsibilities and US Civic Duties.
I have Served with Women in Combat Environments (no matter how many US Politicians like to deny Women in Combat) ever since the US Military Training Teams attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars ("aka Peacetime US Military" for everyone except us leading Iraq Military into Combat, including our Women leading the US Ally Iraq Women's Military Companies, Battalions, Brigades into Combat). Especially, at Islamic Nations where Men are NOT allowed to associate with Women and vice versa.
And no matter what you say, thru physical conditioning of decades they can outperform most Men of the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces. And no they do not even look like the "she males" of the USSR Olympians.
It is only this year, that US Congress, and the US Public finally recognized these beyond brave and dedicated Women in Combat. With many of these Combat Veteran Women of the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces (aka Special Warfare) very quietly finally receiving their many Combat Medals, Awards, Qualifications, etc. resulting in retroactive Promotions.
As, far as Homosexuals in the US Military, YOU Create them by making every other alternative Illegal under the UCMJ, that are usually not even prosecuted in the "Civilian World". If you even bothered to really Read the UCMJ, you can even be Prosecuted for Masturbation, and don't tell me you don't do that (Masturbation).
What do you believe is going to happen (is happening) when you Deploy US Military Men and Women for Months to Years. And this is only going to get worse, as President Obama as US Military Commander In Chief Ordered the Reduction In Forces (RIF) of 90,000 US Military Personnel, meaning More Deployments and Longer Tours for those that are still in the US Military.
Jerry-1927474, how about this you get your arse deployed for years of consecutive tours to live with the locals. And your Women while providing Humanitarian Assistance (like delivering a baby, or stitching up stumps (body parts cut off by Islamic Jihadists) of Afghan women) as part of our US Military Asymmetric Warfare Mission are also calmly fighting off a sh!t load of Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists shoulder to shoulder with the men of my Teams. And don't tell me I don't know or am "exaggerating", I lead from the front, not from a secure FOB, COB, Secure AFB, or secure Green Zone; as their Respect is Earned (by Actions not "empty words") not given.
Jerry-1927474 you are an idiot...My uncles ALL served in a different branch of the service & they worked side by side with females & had no problem...your thinking is what helps these jerks that rape women...give me a gun any day & i dont care if you are male or female you rape anyone you deserve life without parole...LOL who knows might just be a woman who saves your ass from the next Osama...smh...
\panetta and the rest dont want to fix this they just want it to go away holding anyone in the military accountable is just ludicrious currently there are over 600 senior officers under investigation for various crimes only 10 percent will get punished most with letters in their files= if a civilian did those crimes jail time
The problem is institutionalized and has become this way after decades, it will take a concerted effort over the course of several administrations to fix the problem. You can't just replace the entire leadership overnight...
And I have a list of 80 registered communists in the Democratic party...
Please, provide proof of your plainly ridiculous claims.
The problem isn't a desire to coverup a crime. The problem is that the person deciding whether or not a crime has been committed and needs to be prosecuted is not impartial. Require an impartial third party (IG maybe) to investigate and determine if charges are warranted, and this problem will go away.
It is impossible to expect a commander who thinks the perp deserves a medal or two to believe the victim over the perp. We are just not built that way. That's why we require an impartial judge/jury to determine the outcome of criminal cases.
Nope, go look at the US Crime Statistics US Department of Justice.
It all starts with the Commanding Officer consulting the Prosecution of the Staff Judge Advocate General, not the Inspector General.
It needs to start with the commanding officer reporting it to an impartial third party, and the investigation being taken over from there.
"impartial third party" good luck with that, just look at how representative of "impartial" all the posts here on Newsvine are.
In previous situations as soon as the Commanding Officer contacted those that conduct the Investigation, the Legal Defense have had that become "Tainted" (in admissible), resulting in Exhonorations.
You honestly believe that this "impartial third party" thing is a new invention or solution.
The methods and procedures of what the Commanding Officer must do was established by US Legal Authorities, as "Due Process of Law", "Rules of Evidence", etc. after many examples of previous Failures (including the executions of those wrongly convicted).
There was a professional sports team that conducted practices at my college and one of the players attempted to rape me. He left me with visible bruises and I only escaped being raped by outsmarting the buffoon. When I reported it, I was banned from any contact with the team. If I was enjoying dinner at a restaurant and a player entered the establishment, I was expected to leave. He received no punishment and eventually went on to be a head coach. It's the good ol' boys network, tried and true. I have nothing but sympathy for the victims. Note to all men: Make friends with your hand...quit victimizing women!
as any criminologist can tell you, rape is not about sex, it's about power. most rapists commit sex crimes because a desire in their head about their ego, not about jerking off.
The problem is that alot of rape accusations are all talk and no evidence. That being said, there are ALOT of innocent men in prison, who were convicted based solely on the complaintent's testimony. Rape prosecutions are tricky business. If there's no physical trauma, who do you believe?
I'll never forget in highschool, a friend of mine messed around with a girl at a party, while they were both drunk. The problem was that she had a boyfriend. So, when he found out, she said that my friend took advantage of her drunken state. Well, my friend was probably more intoxicated than she was. So, who was taking advantage of who? There have been men CONVICTED of rape, under those EXACT same circumstances! Their lives RUINED!
Kinda like your entire post?
note to women ... stop thinking all me are rapists.
I think it would be perfectly fine for you to name names. If you can't get justice one way, you should be able to get it another way.
Rape isn't always about power, Yus. If that were the case, why would adults rape toddlers and babies? Those children are absolutely powerless to begin with. So while some rape is about power, it can also be about sex.
Do your own research, and you'll see that what I'm saying is true. Or, shall I link a bunch of articles from obscure, local newspapers, dating back years, telling of convicted rapists being exonerated?
Seriously? A raped womans life isn't ruined? Statistics show that roughly 2% of rape claims are false while as many as 56% rapes go unreported because of the treatment women get in the legal system where they'll be the ones put on trial, not the perp. I have a friend who was raped after a dinner date, went to the police and was told, "well look how you're dressed." She didn't pursue. As far as the physical trauma, again really? How about date rape drugs? How about women so scared for their lives they don't fight back. I realize you're more concerned with the guys so I'm sure you'll be single your entire life, but let me bring you in on a little secret...rape is devestating for a woman and most never fully recover. Yet you only care about men. If she can still walk, why should she even complain huh rusty?
Take your own advise. Rape isn't about some stranger in a back alleyway picking off victims at random. The vast majority of rape victims know their rapists. The vast majority of rapists are multiple offenders with multiple victims.
Rapists are dangerous animals who need tough penalties to lock them up.
Learn what rape is and maybe you'll figure out that there's a lot of "physical trauma" and physical evidence involved. Rapists driven by their mad and vicious natures leave all KINDS of evidence to be looked at. There are a lot of convicted rapists in prison... forever is too short of a sentence.
CAF,
First, your 2% false thing is absolute bs. There are estimates ranging from below 10% to upwards of 50%. We cant just take someone's word for it. We have laws and due process in America. And yeah, Rusy's concern is for guys, because it does happen to a lot of people. How about the football player who's life was ruined because of a lier? Does he not matter in your man-hating rant? Rape sucks, but so does false accusations, and until either side is willing to see the other, we'll continue with this culture of under reporting and over reporting sexual assault.
Don't forget the psychological trauma. Those wounds remain even after the physical ones fade.
MrBurns
"There are estimates ranging from below 10% to upwards of 50%"
From where? Was it a fact based article that you read this in, or someone else's forum post somewhere? Back this up with facts.
Burns pulled that out of his ass. If you knew how terrible a women is treated when reporting a rape, you'd know that 10-50% is a total absulute lie. Back it up or shut you yapper you liar.
Gregorovich - Good idea...Mike Tice. World class jerk!
Wow... a simple search on "how many rape allegations are false" returns the information you are looking for.
Several studies have been conducted. The low end estimate was 8%. The high end estimate was 90%.
Here's a good article on the different statistics regarding false allegations of rape.
An interesting note in the article. The air force studied the 1,200 reported rapes over 4 years, and determined that approximately 45% of the rape reports were false. This was by admission of the alleged victim. (Note: the majority of them only admitted the rape report was false before taking a polygraph, or immediately after failing a polygraph test).
The long and the short is... we know it happens. We don't know exactly how often it happens. We do know that it happens frequently. From reading the different studies, my personal belief is that it's around 30% of all "reported" rapes. I do believe that a large majority of actual rapes goes unreported.
It removed my link from my post... search for this
"False Rape Allegations: An Assault On Justice"
And you'll find a good article on the different studies on false allegations of rape.
Well why in the world do you think raped women are victimized again by the police. You just need to do some research and see how many cops are charged each year as pedophiles and sexual offenders. I grew up in a small town 5 sq miles and we had 2 sexual offenders on the force. It was years of these a-holes being reported before anything was ever done. Just last year there were dozens of cops charge with child porn or pedophilla, just think they are catching a small margin. I don't want to put it all on the cops either as they tend to be come desensitized to certain things due to what many of them go through and see daily. Also remember that many cops are some of these same guys from the military.
I know exactly what a women goes through after a rape. Maybe I should say I have an idea as someone extremely close to me was raped by Fletcher A. Worrell-aka The Silver Springs Rapist. He was let go by cops even after being convicted of rape only to continue raping dozens of women for decades. Trust me this is not something they "get over"
Looking for a spot to post this: www.theforensicexaminer.com/archive/spring09/15/
has thorough explanations describing the real meaning of "unfounded" and other terms we tend to think of in the same category, such as "false rape". We all know that anyone can get statistics to mean whatever we want. Natural language explanations take away the fun of being right. :-] S/F
I was in the Army 30 years ago - the same thing was happening...bunch of horn dogs..including officers.
Yep. I was in the USAF as a 2LT back in '89 up to '93 and I have to tell you this sh1t was rampant when I was in there then. So I have every reason to believe this woman. All this kreep got for raping her was 18 months? He should have been shot!
There are a lot of men in the military that still resent women being able to serve.
It didn't help that during the early-late 90's (when I served), sexual harassment training was seemingly constant. The effort was well-intentioned, but it fostered an environment where many male soldiers felt like female soldiers were getting special treatment and "getting over" (even if they weren't...or at least not in any greater numbers than some male soldiers), which just fostered more resentment by those same folks.
Hence, the power/ego trip comes into play. The desire to "put them in their place," etc.... It's sick and wrong and from the looks of things hasn't changed much in the years since I was discharged.
I want to say that if a member of the military rapes a US citizen or citizen of an allied country, they should be accused of treason as well as rape. At least ancient military knew not to rape your own countrymen!
i served 25 years in the air force, covering the same time frame, and no rape was not "rampant" anywhere i had ever been...
That's because you flyboys consensually buttpoke each other and leave the ladies alone.
BD - Not that you knew of. Kinda easy to not know about something when it's largely being swept under the rug.
Though I suspect the Air Force might have a lower rate of such incidences than the other branches of the military, though certainly far from nonexistent. The Air Force culture is quite different from the others.
While I certainly believe these women, I too, was in the USAF for 8 years, and never saw such behavior even once. In my field, I also served with many service members from the Army, Marines, and even the Navy, and there is no question that the culture is much different, especially from the Army and Marines. To put words to it: They both have a much more "macho" culture.
Yeah, the Air Force Culture is different all right. The Army, Navy, and Marines defend our nation. The Air Force defends places like Las Vegas and Oklahoma City. Rough duty. Heck, even the Coast Guard has a better chance of seeing an enemy.
The Air Force is a vital component of the armed forces of the USA, and even though I and my father served in the Army, my sister and brother-in-law have served or currently serve in the Air Force. They may rarely find themselves on the front lines (outside of the combat pilots themselves), but they're still defending the country. It's an honorable and necessary profession, and actually they spend a LOT of time deployed away from their family, even if they're not always sent to the heart of Afghanistan or Iraq when they deploy.
I refuse to blame the Air Force personnel for being smart enough to join the branch of the service that by a HUGE margin cares the most about the quality of life of the people that join them. Just because they're not by nature as "macho" as the other forces doesn't make them any less vital.
A whole lotta troops in both Iraq wars were saved a whole lotta potential pain and death by Air Force pilots in Air Force birds taking out large chunks of Saddam's forces before they ever got close enough to engage on the ground.
Thank you, Jmacq1.
Of course it is a culture different from the Army, Navy and Marines. But none of us in my group were so stupid as to believe that there wasn't any krap going on between members of the opposite genders. Perhaps I could have worded it differently the first time, and if I offended anyone I apologize -but this happens in ALL branches of the service.
@Brussells Sprout, while there is less chance, certainly, than a frontline grunt, you show that you don't have a clue. My plane was greeted by enemy fighters daily.
Nice try. The majority of the USAF and USN have TOO Much time on their hands.
The USAF Pilots are only the 1-3%, the rest are "Support" (e.g. my younger sister, USAF Officer). The USN (that I usually mock about the Taliban swimming a few hundred miles to attack them, and their "participation" medals, awards, decorations).
This is why previously it was demanded that President Obama chop the USAF and USN, April 2009. The USAF Generals the USN Admirals frantically running around attempting to justify their very existence, just like after Vietnam, just like after the First Gulf War, just like after 2002-2011 Iraq, and still occurring at Afghanistan.
And please do not tell me I don't know for the longest time I have been a Joint Services (US Army, USAF, USMC, USN, Agencies) US Military Asymmetric Warfare Officer, the 1% (Officers) of the 3% (Asymmetric Warfare aka Special Warfare) of the 1% of US Citizens of the US Military.
We start out as the 97% US Army, USAF, USMC, USN, Conventional Warfare Forces, then are selected as potential Candidates for Assessments after years of previous Service with the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces.
It is part of our job description to KNOW the capabilites, assets, weaknesses and force structure of our own US Military Conventional Warfare Forces, in case we need them (that is why we are required to have their qualifications also regardless of Branch of Service, examples: USAF STTs qualified USN Surface or Submarine Warfare; USA SF qualified USN Divers; USNSWDG qualified as USAF or USA Aviators; lots of etc..).
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not happening. There are a lot of good guys, and hopefully you were hanging around those. However, a family member of mine was in the Air Force in the 70s, and she was gang-raped. Tried to press charges--she got nowhere. Her rapists are probably still out there. She knew of at least two other fellow servicewomen who were raped as well.
Also, just because it's not "rampant" doesn't mean it isn't a problem. One rape is a problem... many rapes, hardly any justice for the victims? That's a SERIOUS ISSUE.
My wife was in the Army 12 years. We met there. She was a company commander in Germany with 150 women for 2 years. None got raped while she was there. I was at the ammo dump at Benning for 18 months and I wouldn't trust the guys in the ammo handling company. They would call off post pizza delivery to the barracks and rob the guy. Most were in the Army because a county judge made the offer : join the Army or go to jail. Felt sorry for their company commander. HE spent more time at the brig visiting his people than he spent in the office doing other work. The women civilian DOD workers at the ammo office were escorted to their cars. We had no women miitary assigned there. We had no assaults while I was there.
Russo, you were trained by the Marines to fight for your country. Surely, you could find a way to get that sick b!$%h that did this to you. The incriminating video and this woman's testimony only got him 18 months? Hmmmm
I don't understand why she couldn't sue the crap out of somebody. Filthy illegal invaders from Latin America do it all the time.
You can only sue the Federal government when it allows you to. It has granted blanket permission to sue in certain situations, but that was explicitly not granted to anyone in the military for anything that happens in the military.
Do keep up with the times. US Military filing Lawsuits against US Military Medical Facilities, etc..
In this case, USMC Russo, we are talking about the US Civilian Prosecution, not the US Military filing the Charge(s).
There is a simple solution to this problem that Secretary Panetta could impose immediately: every allegation of rape gets referred to civilian authorities for prosecution and not to the military brass. The civilian prosecutors have gotten much better over the past couple of decades in taking rape seriously and taking aggressive action.
I hate to break it to you.... but we have a few military personnel overseas. Not a lot mind you, but I heard from secret sources that we've got at least a small team somewhere in the middle east.
I think you'd have some jurisdiction problems, and you sure as hell wouldn't want Iraq courts to investigate and/or prosecute. Chances are the victim would be found guilty due to Shariah law.
If you can send the FBI out to investigate other crimes abroad why not send them out for this?I don't see a problem.
saddler1,
The FBI still hasn't been able to get to Benghazi. The military goes places others wouldn't dare.
That is the point. The CID, FBI, and many other US Law Enforcement DO investigate for the Staff Judge Advocate General.
Somebody does NOT want the FBI involved to investigate (already investigated with forensics that the US Law Enforcement only dreams they had), arrest, then the suspects are given a "Fair Trial" and put into a prison with 3 meals a day, television, clothes, etc..
Instead of killing them with extreme prejudice as verified targets. Or inciting the Public to go after them.
There is NO such thing as "Ex SEALs", "Ex USA SF", "Ex USMC MARSOC", "Ex USAF STTs", or "Ex CIA SAD/SOG"; those guilty of killing them will get their justice.
(you want to babysit a bunch of US Law Enforcement that believe in not shooting without hesitation, go right ahead).
Bells brings up a good point. The Brass is monkeying around with justice - or failing to assure justice. By maintaining an environment of danger to a segment of military members from other military members they are fostering and enabling the crimes. When it gets bad enough, outside forces (executive branch, congress, the public, supreme court) will force changes on them in a manner they are not going to like. When that happens, listen to them holler and squeal. Right now they are full of themselves and think they have the world by the throat and do what they want. It'd be better for the military if they got it under control before someone fixes it for them.
I've said it before and I'll say it again here - joining the military is like getting into a car with a driver whose BAC is .3.
And I'm a veteran.
This is sad, but not terribly surprising.
I looked into joining the military when I was in college in the 1970's. One of my teachers found out, and gave me a stern lecture about sexual assaults in the military and how the women in the service are treated. He was a former military medical officer, and he definitely talked me out of it.
No one who offers their life for their country should be treated like this. We need to stop acting more like the taliban than Americans. My heart goes out to this woman.
It's not that we act like the Taliban. It's due to a lack of impartiality. The commanding officer knows the people involved (at least the accused). There is a reason we do not allow a judge to preside over cases where he knows the individuals. That is all that is going on here.
That is NOT what is going on. What is going on is Dereliction of Duty of those Commanding Officers that did not go to the Staff Judge Advocate in the first place.
I vote with David. But would add that if we had a strong cadre of NCO's backed up by the officer corps, they would have the military under control and if and when a crime took place they would make that guy so sorry you couldn't imagine it. The word would spread and no body would think of doing such things. But as long as you reduce the NCO's and officers to a bunch of playground tattle tails whose job it is to report a suspect to a bureacrat you don't really have a military anymore. So special forces is getting all the press, special forces is getting the smart capable people, the money for operations, the weapons. The regular ranks are getting the criminals and pervs and victims, and the manager types who view reporting to someone else as the best they can do at running their units. What a picture this presents.
You sign that dotted line you are no longer a sovereign individual.
That's right her as* belongs to uncle sam!.
And that means she can be raped without her attacker being punished? What kind of (&@^@# up reality do YOU live in?
Well if that is true my friend...and her as* belongs to Uncle Sam...then yours too...so becareful...I don't think you were made for that kind of fun...do you???
Just because a female joins the Military, it does not mean that she is to subject to abuse and rape or any other kind of assault from her fellow comrade's! Anyone who thinks otherwise are mentally sick!!!
There's no such thing as a "sovereign individual"
Floyd types are the ones doing the raping. All it takes is the idiot view that women in the military are there to be abused by whoever wants to abuse them. Course if Floyd was in, and a couple of guys wanted to beat him for exercise and take his stuff he'd ahve to agree to take the beating because he lost his rights when he joined - using his non-logic. People like Floyd are why we need rules and why we need strong folks as NCO's and Officers. They have to control their Floyds- else rapes and beatings follow. And that is bad for unit capability, personnel safety, etc. etc. People like Floyd exist. But they can be controlled.
This is probably due to the Co-Ed or the Co-habatation going on in collages and the military now.. but it is better than the military I served in, when the women had their own barracks and the young pvts had to pull guard around their barracks... and be hassled by the women....
So are you saying that just because men are around women, they can't be expected to control themselves? Seriously? That sounds like Taliban thinking. This is less about sex than it is about violence and dominance. People like that will act like this in any situation, not just when they're in the military. They are going to be around women where ever they go, live, work, etc, so shouldn't we expect that they won't think it's their right to commmit a rape ever?!?
No my Dear Dan...we need Lorena Bobbitt back" so this will end...trust me it will...I will lend all the ladies there my Scissors" that will be the best medicine... Cheers!!!
I agree with you Jed.
It is ridiculous to think that these men can't be around female soldiers without feeling like they need to rape them. Who in the heck do they think they are? What are they going to do when they are out of the military working? they see a women who works in the next cubicle and decide to rape her?
The worst part is how the military handles this major problem. They are worse the then catholic church. Panaetta's solution is to relocate the female from the person who assaulted her? What kind of a stupid solution is that? Here is an idea, arrest the idiot and throw them in the brig, do the investigation and convict them. That is afterall, what would happen if a civilian raped a woman.
This is ridiculous that it happens and these morons think they can just act like lawless idiots.
@Storm
Relocation is a good thing even when the rapist is actually arrested and prosecuted. That scumbag rapist has other scumbag friends who may harass and re-victimize the victim. It is not a perfect answer, but then if this were a perfect world the rape wouldnt have happened in the first place and the commanders wouldnt need to or feel the desire to sweep this despicable act under the rug.
Oh even though I am a guy, I have served and seen the attitude that causes this issue within the command structure, and more importantly I am married to a woman who is a victim of Military sexual assault. Even though it has been well over twenty years since it happened to her, that rape still has major effects on her life even today. Commanders who ignore or sweep this kind of stuff under the rug need to be relieved of duty and lose all benefits if not be prosecuted for being accessories after the fact.
I will venture that this woman will be charged with desertion and the rape case will die in prison as will she.
The way to stop this sort of thing might be a firing squad for rapists. As it is, at least charge the officers that ignored her please with dereliction of duty and send them to prison where they belong.
I will add, I am totally disgusted with our dealings with our wounded. They are not well taken care of and those that are able to work are not getting enough help finding jobs. The Republicans blocked a vote to help veterans with getting jobs. The vote was 58 to 40 in favor but the usual crap whereby Republicans are filibustering requiring 60 votes for passage is rediculous. Whatever happened to the will of the majority?
Please, vote Democratic all the way so something positive can be done for them and the country.
The republicans talk about patriotism but when it comes to helping the troops. Forget it. But they do care about increasing budget for the defense contractors. We need to build a nuclear submarine so it can help in the fight against terrorists who live in tents.
The military WILL cover up for a "Golden" officer. DUIs horrible car crashes and worse. Common.
Today's USMC is a disgrace to America.
so are you.
The Trapper - If you think this problem is limited to the Marines Corps, I laugh in your general direction. Today's Marines have been through a decade of fighting, their families enduring years of deployments, watching children be born and grow up from half way around the world. Incidents like these are definitely shameful, and cast the entire organization in a horrible light.
Anyone that wants to sit there behind there computer and try to disrespect our military is a disgrace to the US. Those men and women work there butts off for you. You are a coward. Keep typing while they keep protecting!!!
Reading this article does bring to light that if our servicemen will do such horrible things to their own kinds. There is no doubt that they will do the same to the Iraqi women and afghanistan women.
Very sad story. The Corps may not have been sympathetic, but THIS Marine is. From one to the other, we are always faithful.
Apparently some of you are more faithful to some than others.
Now I understand when the Obama admin. says there is an assault on women going on. Problem for them is their actually in charge. Panetta did just as his boss does. He acted like he has nothing to do with the problem. He does! He can stop it or minimize these acts if he wanted to or was willing to do what it took. He is not! Obama is not!
Dear Mark, you forgot the rapists themselves. Are they off of the hook or do you just need to blame Obama for one more thing?
I don't want Obama to be president, any more than most people, but I think you have a low grasp on reality.
As for my most people comment, I see things this way. Myself and so many people who voted for Obama, didn't want to, but liked the other option even less. This time, I'm just going to skip the election. I'm past caring if the ship sinks. I have the option of gaining citizenship in my wife's country, if it does.
Institutional change in the military is a VERY difficult thing to pull off. While technically the President and Secretary of Defense have the power to do it, they have NO power to genuinely change the [i]culture[/i] of the military.
Case in point: Women have been in military service alongside men as part of the regular military (not separate in the WAC for example), for over 60 years, but the culture of the military is still very much a "boy's club" where women are often seen as interlopers.
That isn't to say there aren't thousands upon thousands of good and true servicemembers who treat their female members with respect: There are. But there is often a perception in the military that if you ignore a problem hard enough, it will go away. Commanders and senior enlisted are DEATHLY afraid of how a rape conviction in their unit might reflect on THEM (Yet strangely find it perfectly OK to sweep things under the rug). There's a definite stigma attached to "rocking the boat" and many of the rapists in the military are outwardly "model troopers" (which at least in the Army basically means they keep their uniforms clean, shoot straight, and score high on their PT tests), which again makes Commanders doubt the victims and/or balk at the idea of punishing someone with an "exemplary career."
Sorry, this has been going on since before 2008. I was involved in the Sexual Assault Victim Advocacy Program when I was in. I retired in 2008, so this has been an enduring problem just made much worse by the conditions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Stop being a derp and blaming everthing on this commander in chief. The real problem is, as others have said, the good ol' boy system that is rampant in the military and perhaps society consitently deeming some people or groups of people less deserving of respect than others. We need to stop re-victimizing the victims and treating everyone with respect. Oh, btw, not only WOMEN are being raped more. Just more food for thought.
RMegrl(ret),
You said it yourself: "Stop being a derp and blaming everthing on this commander in chief."
Commanders are Ultimately Responsible, Accountable and Liable.
You cannot have it both ways (you can if you are a Hypocrite): "President Obama Got Osama" as most Demoncrats love to rant (which he really did not, since someone else called the shots, during the 23 minute communications blackout at the Whitehouse); "Got the US out of Iraq" (did not US got kicked out and had to follow Repugnant Bush's Iraq Withdrawal Time Table); I can give you many many more examples with all the who, what, where, why, when, how, etc..
tamusan,
What's the matter you don't like being told to choose between two steaming piles of sh!t.
Well, you don't get to choose anyway (November-December), that is done by the Rich Elitists of the Electoral College (January). As the Founding Fathers, "The average citizen is too ignorant to determine the Highest Offices of the Land, President and Vice President". (the lame excuse that the Electoral College was established to represent smaller States, is just that a lame excuse used by the Rich Elitist Founding Fathers that refused to "Pay Their Fair Share" of the British "Tax the Rich" Stamp Act Taxes).
Jmacq1 - Institutional change in the military is a VERY difficult thing to pull off. While technically the President and Secretary of Defense have the power to do it, they have NO power to genuinely change the [i]culture[/i] of the military.
Really. LOL. (keep clicking next, there is no such thing as "Obstructionist" anything):
http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions
As a USMC Vietnam vet, I am thoroughly disgusted by the Marine Corps behavior. What happened to "Semper Fidelis"???????????
Claire, I am so sorry this happened to you. I apologize on behalf of all Marines who try to live by our Semper Fidelis motto.
I agree with you, and I disagree at the same time. I'm a retired Marine, and also can't think of any adult male relatives who have not served in the military.
I think there were always douchebags like this rapist in the military. I don't think it's fair to judge all service members, based on the actions of a few. Where I agree with you is that the military judicial system handled this very badly, and those involved should at least face reprimands.
This has been a problem with the military in many aspects of military justice. Military Commanders are NOT impartial. They have no business handing out justice when they are not impartial. It is long past time we started handing military justice off to impartial third parties.
Every article I read about what these women have to endure makes me sick.
I am a female veteran who worked with some of the most honorable people on earth. Our commands tolerated no sexual harassment. I worked in remote locations even on night shifts where we women never felt fear or intimidation from any man. People behaved themselves both on and off base. We looked out for one another.
Thirty five years later and I still keep in touch with some veteran friends. What has happened to make these evil assaults so tolerated in the military today.
That is the point, today it is even less tolerated in Today's Politically Correct US Military; with the News Media sensationalizing the situation (boring news does not sell).
Also unlike before the "Computer Age", "Internet Age" everything is reported instantaneously. Even if the information is not even 100% correct.
You can see many of the Newsvine Posts reflect the "Old US Military", "Good Old Boy Network" and not the current US Military.
That "Good Old Boy Network" used to be those US Military Academy Graduates with US Politician connections (how they got nominated to the US Military Academies in the First Place), protecting each other (including US Politicians interventions). As the US got involved in more and more Wars most of these Politically connected disillusioned US Military Academy Graduates left, and the OCS (Prior US Military Service Enlisted or NCO), ROTC (Prior US Military Service "Retreads") Commissioned US Military Officers became more prevalent.
However, due to Political Connections the US Military Academy Graduates still are in control, those of us that came "Up Thru The Ranks" refer to them as the "Frat Boys" or "Ring Knockers" Club (they cover up for each others butts) and they usually hate the "Up Thru the Ranks" US Military Officers and consider them "Tainted". And just like previous RIFs it will be the US Military Academy Graduates that remain on Active Duty, while the Experienced OCS, ROTC Commissioned Officers get RIF'ed (again).
The most significant Cause of the current problems are the numbers of Deployments and Long Tours of the 1% of US Citizens of the US Military.
I'm appalled as a veteran that the U.S. Military has been letting this ride for so long. As some one put it, I saw a lot of Neanderthals, but also some really good men. The U.S. Army needs to quit worrying about recruitment numbers and start doing the right thing. I don't care if it's military or not, this barbarism has got to stop. And as every veteran knows, that means going straight to the top of the command. Start holding top command to the fire, and things will change. If you don't believe me, ask Penn State.
The military is much like the Catholic church in that it prizes its own dignity and reputation above that of its members. I am an ex-soldier and I know this to be true.
Very true.
It doesn't help that in most cases "Rocking the Boat" is practically treason in the military if it doesn't come down from the highest levels of command. Even if the attempt to address a problem is well-intentioned, those who make a stir are labelled "troublemakers" and their career suffers accordingly.
As I mentioned above, many commanders and senior enlisted personnel are probably worried that a soldier or soldiers getting punished for rape under their command will give the impression that they couldn't control their own troops. To make matters worse, the rapists are often well-liked by their male peers and often considered "model soldiers" so prosecuting them might hurt morale and readiness to their minds. None of this excuses the inaction, of course. It's simply something that becomes more understandable.
All but the best officers tend to look out for their own careers above anything else, and they're in an environment where image counts for a whole heck of a lot,
Actually, my experience is that this is far from the truth.
What it is, is this... the commanding officer determines if charges should be filed. He/she is not impartial. He/she knows the accused. Sometimes they know them very well. These are men that the commanding officer has recommended for promotion and to receive medals. It is too much to expect them to be able to put their existing relationship aside and be impartial.
The snide, disrespectful attitude toward female vets doesn't end when they leave the military either even where it really should not be tolerated but no one wants to push issues and make the higher ups accountable...
The military is still trying to prove that women do not belong at the expense of the women who are already a part. It's a terrible, terrible thing to close their eyes to the truth in order to maintain their masculine image by degrading women with no consequences. Much love, strength and courage to the women who have come forward.
Rape victims and their attackers can be found in all walks of life. You can't hate every Civilian because you were attacked by a Civilian and the same goes in the Military.
The issue is it seems to be that they won't take seriously to prosecute. It seems to be a behavior often tolerated or swept under the rug by the individuals in command.
I was raped by an older NCO when I was an airman in tech school. I didn't bother to report it, though, because even my own roommate said, "Are you sure it was "rape"?" I figured if she could look at a crying teenager (I was 17) and say that, the command wouldn't believe me, either.
This was 28 years ago. Doesn't sound like anything has changed.
I am sorry for you, but you should have at least reported it.
AFVet-1013386
Thank you for sharing. I am so sorry that your "friend" didn't help you. No, it doesn't seem like people's attitude toward women has changed much. I think rape is connected to fear. Men who fear women hate them and abuse them. This is not true in all cases, but in many. If only people could understand that this heinous act is not erased even after 28 years.
I am sorry and know what you mean.
You did the right thing...& the wrong thing.
I served in the Army from '89-97, while in training a fellow soldier and friend was raped. This lab's NCOIC was known for this (you heard me right, he was known), so we always tried to keep at least 2-3 others with us whenever we had dealings. When she could finally get the courage, enough to just speak to him we set him up. After stripping him naked and beating the crap out of him (amazing how few identifiable bruises you leave with rocks in a sock) we left him barely conscious covered in alcohol and his own urine. Six week later, his transfer request came through. We wished him well and happiness in Greenland......FYI military never re-assigns you where you might want to go.
After 28 years you are still traumatized and they say that rape isn't a big deal. I am sorry that your friend wasn't there for you and that the military instead of being grateful for your service dishonored you.
AFVet-1013386 - Thank you so much for sharing your story. I was raped in Tech School (16 years ago) as well and no one listened. I was told to keep my mouth shut. I was the one punished. It has affected every aspect of my life since then. I am sorry you had to go through that and that NCO took something from you that you can never get back. I wish you all the best...