By Alison O'Brien
Rock Center
It happens in a lot of new relationships. Every day, you learn something new about each other. It happened with David and Kristen Finch.
“David was quirky,” Kristen said. “Always just very sweet and funny, [and] kind of nerdy, but in a cute nerdy way.”
“Very sexy nerd,” David interjected and, smiling, Kristen agreed.
The two met while attending high school in their small Illinois town and after years as friends, David and Kristen began dating. To Kristen, he was “super boyfriend” – a go with the flow guy who was the life of any social gathering.
“He was entertaining the whole room,” said Kristen, age 35. “And it got people laughing.”
But, when they married in 2003, the laughter stopped. Kristen was confused.
“I thought, what happened?” she said. “You know, it was almost like night and day after we got married.”
Once they were living together, David’s actions, once quirky to Kristen now seemed strange. They began to put a strain on their marriage. David, then in his twenties, was obsessed with daily rituals. He would take an hour to make his breakfast. He’d meticulously wash and cut grapes, make his oatmeal and tea. When it came to his eggs, he would line up the carton making it parallel to the countertop and carefully scramble his eggs to make sure the consistency was the same from one day to the next.
David, who was working as an engineer, had an outfit for each season. In the winter, he’d wear a sweatshirt with Eastern printed on it and track pants. In the summer, he’d wear a t-shirt and shorts that became so worn, they developed holes. Every day, he had to wear the same clothes because if he didn’t, David said he “would silently freak out.”
NBC News
David Finch staring at rooftops, one of the rituals that helps calm him.
“Tension would mount and I couldn't say anything. Pretty soon I'd start snapping at people,” he explained in an interview with Kate Snow airing Thursday, Sept. 27 at 10pm/9c on NBC's Rock Center with Brian Williams.
The rituals would continue until bedtime. Every night, David would stare out the window at his neighbors’ rooftops. He found the symmetry calming.
“I have a physiological response,” he said. “My shoulders relax. My head calms down and it's kind of nice.”
But it wasn’t so nice for Kristen. While she took care of the house and their two children, daughter Emily and son Parker, David was fixated on himself. When things didn’t go exactly as planned, he’d obsess endlessly. It happened one Thanksgiving when there was garlic in the mashed potatoes. According to David, garlic didn’t belong in the mashed potatoes at Thanksgiving dinner.
“I would sit there and I would complain about it,” David recounted. “And I'd bring it up constantly to Kristen. And then she would get on my case, because she would be very confused. She thinks I look like a baby and I think this is completely unfair, but I don't know how else to react. And so that would set me off.”
In recalling the incident, Kristen said, “I’m thinking how am I going to do this the rest of my life?”
Things were spiraling out of control until March 13, 2008. Kristen, a speech therapist who works with autistic children, was doing research for a client when she came across an online quiz. It was a test of Asperger’s Syndrome, an autism spectrum disorder characterized by repetitive tendencies, obsessive interest in several narrow subjects, difficulty reading the emotions of others and social difficulties. When she started reading the questions, Kristen says, she realized her husband had Asperger’s.
“All of a sudden, the light bulb went off,” she said.
David Finch on Asperger's Diagnosis at 31: It was a 'moment of self-recognition'
She had David take the quiz, but didn’t tell him why or what it was about. The questions ranged from “Do you find it vitally important to remain undisturbed when you’re focusing on your special interests?” to “Do you feel tortured by certain clothes?” The longer the quiz went on, the more personally revealing the questions – and his answers – were.
At the end, the computer tallied his score - 155 out of 200 possible points – and determined it is likely he had Asperger’s. He cried.
“I cried because it was this moment of self-recognition I had never had before,” he said.
A doctor confirmed his diagnosis and, at age 31, David finally had a reason for his behaviors, and an idea of what may be causing his marriage to suffer. In the same way he obsessed over his neighbor’s rooftops, he was now obsessed with fixing himself and his marriage to Kristen. He decided on his own that he needed to modify his behavior.
“I wanted to change,” he said. “I wanted to learn how to manage these behaviors. To give myself a better life, to get our marriage back on track and to earn back Kristen's friendship; to be a better dad and to have a more fulfilling life.”
But David didn’t keep that news to himself. Instead, he decided to go public with his story, writing a memoir which became a New York Times best-seller called “The Journal of Best Practices.”
It’s not a self-help book, but a book about his journey of self-discovery and his efforts to save his marriage to Kristen. It grew from notes he wrote reminding himself to break out of his head and be more responsive to those around him, be a present husband and father, and pay attention to the needs of other people. He even wrote reminders about simple needs such as not to change the radio station when Kristen is singing along, and as important as taking initiative and being a dad.
“I’ve made being a better husband, the husband that I want to be, my special interest,” the 35-year-old David said. “And it’s paying off.”
He’s seeing results in many areas of his life. One note, “parties are supposed to be fun,” reminds David to be good, worthy company at a party. While that may seem like a no-brainer to most, it is a difficult task for David as people with Asperger’s often have a difficult time in social situations. Before his diagnosis, the way David would cope in a group was to mimic the behavior of people who he thought did a great job of fitting in. His favorite role was “the comedian.”
“In order to socialize, I found it was easiest just to get people laughing,” David Finch said. “I would do these ridiculous stunts and jokes, and people loved this.”
But getting people laughing, he found, was exhausting and not entirely fulfilling.
“I would keep that up at like manic, frenetic pace for like an hour, and then I would leave the party,” he said.
So David began studying not just the great humorists, but great communicators. One of his favorite people to study is radio shock jock, Howard Stern.
“Howard’s really an amazingly effective communicator,” he said. “What I’m taking away is his system for engaging his listener.”
By adopting his pacing and voice modulation, and taking cues from his body language, David says he has become better company.
“What I can do is I can give them a couple of minutes of that [humor], and then I can slow it down,” David Finch said. “I can get rid of the shtick and I can really engage in a nice conversation.”
David calls this behavior modification, unlearning old behaviors and learning new ones. He is adamant that he is not curing Asperger’s, nor does he believe one should. He simply says that he wanted to change and has made it a priority. Now, four years after his diagnosis, David says he’s still a work in progress, and Kristen says they met in the middle to put their marriage back on track.
“I guess that was why when we got the diagnosis that I knew that we were going to be ok, because I knew we were both willing to change to make it work,” she said.
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Now they will be trying to claim 90% of people with Aspergers and autism have families with children.
Why did you write this? It seems totally meaningless and besides the point.
You do realize Aspergers is heriditary, and in general is inherited from the Father. I would not be surprised to find out 90% or more of men with Aspergers do have children.
It IS typically hereditary, but you can get it from mom too....women are just more often to be undiagnosed, so often mom doesn't KNOW she is an aspie until her child finds out.
My (fabulous) grand daughter is an "aspie". How can it be passed down from the father if girls have it too? Obviously it's not on the Y chromosome. It seems like if it's on the X chromosome it could also come from the mother.
Asperger's Syndrome does run in families. Most likely I got it from my father, who remained undiagnosed. I was diagnosed when my daughter was diagnosed because the team saw that the apple did not fall far from the tree. My son is classically autistic. This was handed down from me. When you have a parent with autism, you have a one in four chance of having a child with autism. The numbers go up if a child is a born with autism. Women are harder to diagnose because the mods use to diagnose are skewed towards male behavior, so girls and women are missed. Female behavior is very different and women are better at "faking it" to get through. But female autistics suffer from higher rates of depression and anxiety. I was so relieved when I was finally diagnosed because it answered all my questions. I "knew" I was different but no one could tell me why. Life with autism is so difficult because autism makes it difficult to interact with the rest of the world. I tend to isolate simply because I find social interaction too difficult and I am sick of "faking it". I stick with my family and my animals because it's easier and I don't have to worry about offending people, having to think about every word I say, analyzing every move I make, etc. It's just too exhausting.
I have worked with Aspergers as an HCA and it can be exasperating and exhausting but I realized I myself have some of those symptoms. I also prefer to be alone as I feel like I have to analyze every word and I will think I am fine and then will find out I offended the whole room. I never get bored with myself and I never get lonely , although I will miss my Grandchildren terribly . I am more comfortable with children and love when they are part of my job. The worst part of Autism is when the males reach 13 they are considered a danger because of puberty , I felt that was very negitive and I never felt in danger. Some times they are very funny without meaning to be.
I have two grandsons, one autistic, one with spectrum autism. Thank heaven my daughter-in-law noticed something was just "different." These two little boys are 5 and 6 now, and have been under the care of excellent therapists for 3 years now. They converse easily with us, are brilliant kids, and obey their parents with little or no griping. I adore my "munchkins." I wouldn't have them any other way, because they have taught ME a lot. Autism in all its forms is nothing to be afraid of. Just read and learn.
I've never even heard of it before.
People, especially at the high functioning end of the autism spectrum often DO have children and families. While they can at times freak their mates out, both people knowing what is going on and agreeing to be more flexible helps. :) In this case, things worked because David was willing to change and adapt and did not expect Kristen to make all of the changes. But don't kid yourself: aspies marry all the time, and at least sometimes aspie or autistic children have an aspie parent, who may or may not know it. :)
My daughter's bio mother has it but was not diagnosed. My daughter has it, but she was not diagnosed until she was in third grade. Knowing she has it helps her work around it. She doesn't have Asperger's Syndrome, though. She has PDDNOS, which is similar.
I find it funny that he has to act to "fit in" which is what I have a problem doing. Why do I have to lie or act in a way that is not me just to fit in? Why can people not accept me for who I am? It is a very lonely life even if you marry and have kids since you still feel isolated from others and have to act a certain way.
Autistics and aspies CAN read human emotion quite well if that is what they are obsessing over. It is easy to get into a relationship, but hard to maintain when we start obsessing over things that are not your partner. It messes with a woman's head and many women are addicted to this feeling needing to be obsessed over constantly since they lack self confidence. Since men chase after women and will put up with more crap, women aspies get married more often then male ones do.
I come from two myself. My mother left my father when I was young (which now she regrets), but is now married to someone who kisses her butt. He cooks, cleans, shops, works a 40 hour a week job just to have a partner and to get a piece of... He is not the brightest by any stretch of the imagination and there is no way I would do or put up with what he does. If he would not do those things they would not get done since all my mother wants to do is work. She has worked over 40 hours a week since I was 5 or 6 and started going to preschool. My father just found someone a couple years ago after not being in a real relationship for a long long time and I am happy to see him doing good.
I am not blaming or judging either since no one is perfect and am thankful that I had parents that at least cared since I could have had worse. I do see how other people raise their children however and should be able to comment about it. I also had to undergo a personal journey, and am still traveling/trying to improve. Many of the problems we have in society today are due to the lack of "families". How many normal marriages end these days in this country? One person needs to stay at home to take care of the kids. I do not care who, switch off, or at least be willing to financially support the ones that do.
There's a man in the town where I live that several of us are convinced has Aspergers. He has no concept of 'other'. He filters everything through how it can benefit him. It's not so much that he can't read people, he sees no reason to.
He's now in his 60's and has left a trail of messes and disastrous relationships. Despite having a PhD, he has never kept a 'real' job. His wife supported him and their 2 kids though the duration of their marriage and until the kids were through high school.. Their son survived fairly well intact and is doing well in life. Their daughter, not so much. His wife showed evidence of the trauma for years after she broke free.
He now lives by scrounging and doing a bit of 'handy-man' stuff for people who take pity on him. Most of us don't. We see him as a wastrel and a parasite. He refused to pick up any sort of insurance after his wife left him. Yet when he had a medical crisis he demanded to be flown by helicopter to Mayo in Rochester.
Perhaps we are wrong about the Aspergers. After all, there are people in this world who are simply boors and rotters.
My brother has never been diagnosed, but he clearly fits the symptoms. as a small child, he was very hyper. As a teenager and grown up, he has always been very private (we thought he was maybe gay because he kept his love life so secretive.) We met his wife the day before they married. They have three children. He is somewhat the joke of the family, in that they joke about his odd habits, and will say things like, "If Dad starts complaining out the weather on our trip, we'll tie him up and put him in the trunk." They are just joking, but he has always been quite separate.
My oldest daughter, along with a mental illness, has these same symptoms, difficulty knowing what is a joke and what is serious, doesn't know sarcasm, doesn't ever really fit in as a child, the bullied child in school, etc.
I have thought many times that Romney is the same. He tries very hard, but does not quite fit in, or understand what he is saying wrong. His wife says he's a laugh a minute, but the time romney was glittered on stage, his wife got this scared look in her expression, like she didn't know if he was going to "go off" or not. His children aren't very respectful of him, I used to think it was probably because he was always gone at work, and Ann took care of the kids. But the oldest boy, when told his Dad may run for POTUS, said, "I hope he isn't seen as the laughing stock." So they know he's a bit off kilter, just like my brother.
As for the dog on the roof, my brother was at my parent's house, and slid the chair over, and the chair leg was sitting on the male dog/s testicles, and the dog was howling and crying, finally my Dad said, "Get your chair off of my dog!!!"
And my brother answered, "I just never thought they could stretch that far." My brother is an electronics engineer, happily married, three kids, but he just doesn't get it. I love him dearly, but he drives me crazy because after not seeing him for a year or two, he walks into my house, and sterilizes my sink, as if it was dirty. He's probably still mad at me since I haven't sent his metamucil tupperware back to him. lol
Couldn't it be true that adults who are diagnosed during adulthood are simply a product of their environment? If a child lived with an parents who had undiagnosed Asperger's, the child would have learned behaviors from that parent, which behaviors continue to be viewed as "normal" in the adult child. There are many reasons for obsessive behavior, such as parents who have demanded perfection from the child so the child continues to demand perfection from himself when he/she becomes an adult.
I'm sure there is alot about Asperger's that I don't know. Perhaps someone who is in the business of diagnosing here would have credible answers to my hypothesis set out above. Unfortunately I don't have the time to learn more about this condition that is of interest to me now.
To JKatz -
What you have described does not sound like Asperger's. It does sound like a lazy individual who feels entitled to having the rest of the world support him. The person in your community may also have some narcissistic tendencies, as you stated that everything is filtered through how it affects him. Asperger's folks, in my experience, rarely do that. While they may be able to function and interact in society, they have little rituals they follow to maintain calm, are usually bothered by loud noises, and often have trouble understanding other's emotions and being able to function normally in social situations. The person you described doesn't sound as if he cannot, just that he does not bother to do so.
Kudos to this couple for honoring their marriage vows. They bot have chosen to adapt to and/or work with the medical condition rather than throw in the towel because it is VERY hard work. Perhaps as our society becomes more aware of how undiagnosed medical and mental health conditions affect relationships, the divorce rate in our country will start trending downward. Undiagnosed depression, bi-polar, autism, and now Aspergers have affected many, many marriages, I suspect. The symptoms of all of these conditions can be very difficult to tolerate but I believe more spouses would choose to stay with their partner rather than leave once a diagnosis and treatment, etc. is started.
My son is a young adult and on the spectrum. My husband is unofficially diagnosed however when he has taken the quiz assessment scores Aspergers. 1 out of 88 are on the spectrum and and 1 out of 4 males are affected. It is a different manner of thought and processing. It is not just being from Mars it is like living on Mars but finding a balance and acceptance that the world is round for some and oval for others is what makes life more precious. I only wish that my son could find the friends male and female to share his life - please listen to this song he has recorded and written with his Uncle Joel Moss -
JKatze, The person you mentioned doesn't sound like an Aspie, he sounds just like classic NPD, which is Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The NPDs are unbelievably selfish. They are the sole center of their own universe and take the "it's all about them" to a whole new level. Their kids don't matter, except as little extensions of themselves, the wives never measure up, and their verbal abuse is legendary. They aren't just selfish or self-absorbed like the Reality Show biddies. Per most psych MDs, the true NPDs cannot change because their disorder is so deeply entrenched in some trauma they will not allow to be unearthed. They are destructive to any living thing around them, and even the ones who first appear charming because of their drive and self-confidence will wear out their welcome, and their friends, fairly quickly. Aspies are not remotely like these NPD monsters who do indeed wind up living out their final years alone, having exhausted all around them.
My sister I am convinced has NPD. She is not smart but she is conniving what I call predator mentality. This may sound harsh but it is the absolute truth about a NPD. We are ALL only prey to them. A means to their ends. My sister will use anyone up, toss them aside without a second though to the destruction and havoc she leaves behind moving on to the next victim. I mean anyone both our parents, me, our brother no one is exempt. I have witnessed her give Academy Award worthy performances to get what she wanted. She can turn it on and off like flipping the light switch making anyone not aware believe what ever is necessary.She once told me she had been unhappy her whole life. At first I thought how sad. Then I thought no choosing to be unhappy is just that a choice. But after having to live with her as an adult taking care of our dying father I believe she was unhappy because she could not have everything her way and possess anything and everything she had the slightest whim to possess. Oh did I mention she is a life long kleptomaniac.She steals both for things she wants and things that make no sense what so ever.Again no one or nothing is immune form what she will or will not take including my father's gun collection because she thought she was not getting her share(everything) of my father's estate. She has never been able to maintain any relationship and is now in her 50's never married, presently in jail,and as far as I am concerned homeless when she gets out. That would be because I just spent the last three months trying to prevent the City from charging me as Executor to my father's will for the demolition of my parents house(purchased as her part of estate) for being condemned! In four years she and her motley crew of trash, thugs, and parolees destroyed what my parents worked a life time to acquire, the house and the contents. What was left could not be sold only the lot the house stood on had any value. Sadly to say I am done! It would not hurt my feelings one bit if I never saw or had to speak to her again.
WOW and geez, does this sound like my husband! He must create elaborate lies to use everything/one instead of just living in the simple truths of life. I was no peach as a kid, for sure, but he is unbelievable. Your statement, "will use anyone up, toss them aside without a second though to the destruction and havoc she leaves behind moving on to the next victim. I mean anyone both our parents, me, our brother no one is exempt. I have witnessed her give Academy Award worthy performances to get what she wanted, describes him to the fullest. While he's had his moments of clarity over the years, when he will 'breakdown' and admit exhaustion from his behaviors, he continues his verbal/emotional/mental beatings toward others. Our third child is an aspie (diagnosed at 18mo. old as being on the spectrum), the first two do not maintain any quirks/repetative natures. They just endured their father's inablity to be present in our lives despite being under the same roof. Our aspie is intelligent, quirky, and with any luck, will not mimic the behaviors of his father or me.
Love it or Leave it: You wondered whether some behaviours that manifest are actually learned behaviours from parents and, while I can't speak for other's experiences, I can speak to my own. My son has Asperger's, my daughter does not. The reason I know beyond any doubt that my son has something going on in his head is because I noticed his odd behaviour from the first week after his birth. He was not normal, didn't act normal, didn't sleep normal, didn't develop normal, didn't eat normal. Take everything you've ever read or heard about babies and what they like and are like, throw it away; nothing fit him or his behaviour. It was a horribly confusing time but it did push me to seek a specialist in the field of children's disorders and he was diagnosed at the age of 3-4, unlike most children who don't get diagnosed until they go to school and their behaviour really shines as being out of place.
My daughter was a typical baby from day one. A complete reversal of everything her brother was.
Can Asperger's behaviours be learned from others, you darn right they can be. My daughter learned them from my son, most likely because he has always drawn the majority of my sustained attention, no matter how much I tried to equal it out. So she picked his behaviours to gain attention and because in her little world, her brother's behaviours were her normal.
To recap, it's been my experience that Asperger's is not something you "pick up" later in life, you are born with it, there is no question as to your "different" nature from the cradle, it's involuntary. My daughter "picked it up" when she grew to the age of mimicry.
Much to her dismay, she never got away with being like her brother. lol More than once we had a firm discussion about that and why the same behaviours drew different responses. lol
I was diagnosed with aspergers at age 36. I am married and have two children. I'm also a military wife. My behaviors and issues are sometimes difficult for me to deal with, I can't imagine what my husband goes through, but in retrospect, I would not have it any other way. Aspergers is not an excuse, I have always had Aspergers, just not a name for my quirks, but it is a reason. Once you have attained the actualization of what your condition is, you can manage it. My son has moderate autism.
I don't care what you have to say because I don't like your screen name.
This story is the exception NOT the rule. Dig deep through the media's filter and you'll find stories that are much harder stomach.
I am a diagnosed aspie, and so is my daughter. I don't think that this story is an exception to the rule. I do think that the horror stories get a great deal of attention and printed more, while the people quietly dealing with the strengths and short comings of being on the spectrum don't generally make for riveting reading.
Amen Morgan. Just figured out what's "wrong" with me last year. I wanted to cry, and not in a good way. This condition has cost me so much over the years. Now I know it always will in some ways. I'll never be able to fix myself.
However, I'm 43. Married for 20 years to a woman who is nothing like me. 2 lovely kids. I've manage to keep a job as a pastor of the same church for 8 years. I'm really, really good at some things. I'm really, really bad at others. My condition places me at a real disadvantage in some areas of my vocation, but since I'm good at systematizing, I work to analyze the social system and "fake" what comes naturally to everyone else. Sometimes I feel like my name ought to be Lt. Commander Data, but what else can I do?
The thing that drives me craziest is that "normal" people live, from my perspective, in a world of lies. The lips say one thing ("No, I'm not upset. Everything's fine.") the nonverbal communication, which is opaque to me, says another. And then everyone acts as if I knew the whole time what the nonverbal was saying and was not responding appropriately out of contempt or lack of concern or a desire to hurt. How much simpler if someone could say, "Yes, I'm upset and here's why." Then I could do whatever needed to be done to right the situation.
I agree with Morgan and dealing. The reason a story like this seems like an exception to the rule is that most of the stories actually published are horror stories, which make for a more riveting read than the vast number of stories about those who make a decent life for themselves. I was diagnosed with Asperger's as a teenager in college, and I've made it past graduate school and into the working world. I am by far not the exception.
I've definately also experienced what dealing is saying in that last paragraph. I don't think people lie outright, just that they expect that the nonverbal stuff will be picked up on.
Dear dealing,
I think the cause is societal expectations. Society expects one to be calm, cool and collected, never make a scene...One is not allowed to be angry or upset (at work in particular.) Women aren't supposed to get mad, they should be serene and understanding... the phrase 'suck it up and move on' comes to mind.
My opinion...when someone is upset , but says they are fine, it's either the wrong place or time to discuss it, they don't feel they particularly want to discuss it with you, OR you need to pull it out of them because they didn't sufficiently mask the emotion and feel guilty about that. The really difficult part is that, since we are trained to cover our feelings, often, we really don't know exactly what is wrong or how to articulate it.
It's not really a lie....the whole world of emotion is really a mudpit...
I've always considered myself 'regular' (what's 'normal'?), however, I sometimes have trouble with this, too.
Keep up the good work, all will be OK. :)
Maybe they do, Sees Thru Gloss. Are you an Autism expert? No? Oh, well, then - shut the hell up.
I have two children with Autism. While that may not make me an expert It does ensure one thing: I know much more about the subject than you do.
NzYme, I think Mary Kaye was referring to another poster. Someone who didn't have anything of value to contribute. I think she's on our side. Best.
You also need to remember that Autism and Asperger's are NOT the same even though Asperger's is part of the Autism spectrum. Additionally, even some people with Autism can be high functioning. In my role as an educator, I have encountered both low-functioning students with Asperger's as well as high-functioning students with Autism. I believe understanding the disorder and its individual presentation is the key to helping each individual achieve their full potential, which I feel this article highlighted so well.
I find it very ironic that she's a speech therapist for autistic children yet was strained and disturbed by her husband behavior.
The situation is ironic. I like my work but I also like to leave it in the workplace.
Some Lame Name Here, I think the fact that she liked and accepted the "quirky" behaviors she saw before they were married, and that some behaviors that came about only after they had been married for some time can easily explain her inability to recognize the condition.
Also, since, as I understand, Asperger's is in the spectrum of autism, it is unrealistic to expect her to know specifics about typical behaviors for all conditions in that spectrum.
Additionally, there could be a denial factor in play here. I know someone married to a man who did nothing but watch TV after work for years and years. At some point, he was diagnosed and treated with depression, becoming a "new" man. His wife had accepted that he didn't want to do anything around the house, and would only engage in social activities if his children were involved or as a condition of his employment. After his diagnosis, she recognized the symptoms when viewing them as a whole rather than before when she accepted the behaviors as being part of him and accepting him as he was, warts & all. They are both much happier now that he engages with the family and community. There are many things we don't find out about our partners until we live with them, and if married -- the only solutions are divorce or stay put. Who divorces a man just because he doesn't have a beer occasionally with his co-workers after work but comes home immediately, likes to read rather than go to a dinner party, insists the toilet paper be put on a certain way, is incensed by his wife & children squeezing the toothpaste tube in the middle, etc., etc., etc.? These may be signs of an illness or condition, or simply the behaviors of a controlling person, or - ? -.
Rude plain RUDE.
Acknowledging, accepting,adjusting & onto a happier life for everyone. If more people would learn to recognize this then the worst battle is over.
they need to recognise the causes before anything. there are 2 known- murcury in vaacines (thermosol) (and this depends on a childs ability of rate of in which the body removes it) and malnutrition in the whomb, which usually determines the rate the childs body gets rid of it in the future.
You DO realize that the thermosol study was debunked right? The guy that lead it completely altered his results and no other study has been able to replicate his supposed "results".
Baloney. Mercury in vaccines as a cause of autism has been thoroughly debunked!
My husband and I waited until our children were five before vaccinating them and our second son has Asperger's. He showed those tendencies before he was ever vaccinated.
Thimerasol is not mercury. it is the liquid that preserves the vaccine. Lots of people say they get sick from the flu shot, even tho its a dead vaccine. I have told them to get the nasal vaccine spray, because it is probably the thimerasol that is causing their flu symptoms. You can't catch the flu from a dead vaccine.
They are now looking at genetics in austism disorders. In my family there is one in almost every generation that has symptoms such as an aspergers child.
The vaccine theory was "debunked" because the government and pharma companies wanted it that way, too much money to be lost. I truly believe children get autism from vaccines....take a child that was smart, developing normally, gets the required vaccines and in less than a week a light suddenly goes out in this child and is diagnosed with autism. Coincedence? Maybe, but it sure happens a lot after vaccines that no one wants to prove wrong except one guy and then his theory is "debunked".
I have also heard that the people who debunked the vaccine were paid by the pharmaceutical companies that make the vaccine. Can't remember who said that but it was on Coast to Coast a.m. radio show with George Noory.
I work at the Joshua Center in Kansas City, MO- a non-profit organization that works with children with neurological disorders such as Asperger Syndrome, Tourette, PDD-NOS, OCD, etc. These children (and even adults) really do struggle to understand and pick up on social cues-or even how to hold a "normal" conversation without only talking about their interests. We have had TREMENDOUS success with our social skills programs- which we began over five years ago and have been able to see the huge difference in children who have used our curriculum in social skills classes (and in schools, as they are also now using our newest board games/curriculum). What it takes for these children is consistency- you can NOT just tell them to stop acting like that, for instance. You have to repeatedly teach them. It is amazing to see the children that are now in high school or even graduated that have been attending classes and are able to go forward with their lives - they have made friends, hold jobs, and while these social skills are never going to be the norm for them, they are now able to understand how to act/react to others.
I wish I would have had access to your wonderful services 25 years ago. Thank you for the work you are doing.
About the eye contact thing: I can do it with family members and close friends. Not with others. I don't know why. One circumstance causes no inward stress, the other circumstance does. The funny thing is that I have a very hard time recalling faces, even of people I've known for years. If their hair changes, or they are in a different place than I usually see them, or are with other people than I usually see them with, I'm lost. Add that with the eye contact thing and well... life is very interesting.
Brian Williams, you're an idiot. It's unfortunate that this man has Aspergers Syndrome, he's not the new Normal. This is the new liberal bull@!$%# trying to say everybody is normal, that's a lie.
To all those with truly autistic children, My best wishes and patience to you .
That having been said, I think there are a bunch of "parents" claiming there kids have asperger's /adhd/add/insert newest behavioral disease simply for the benefits.
Before you castigate me for saying what I think, please understand that I have dealt with children that have been diagnosed with all of the above, and many of the claimed symptoms disappeared with a bit of attention , and an understanding that they had rules to follow.
I have a 13 year old with Aspergers Syndrome. He was 5 before he was diagnosed with PDD-NOS, which later 'turned' into Aspergers. Though I understand the idea of Thermosal and Mercury have been "debunked", I believe there is a possibility of some sort of predisposition for some children to "react" to the vaccinations. That being said, we also have a 3 year old daughter.... (Both of our children have been vaccinated on time.) She she has no effects that anyone can see. She is a typical little girl.
Our son has extreme issues with discussing only his likes, and he still stims "flaps his wings" when he runs. There are soooo many other things that he does, but I would be on here forever if I listed them all. I know it's hard as a parent of a child with Aspergers, but I also see his struggles EVERYDAY. For someone to only find out at 31 years old, it had to be hard to hear. But I am a little more "hopeful" for what my son can accomplish.
And by the way.... He IS our comedian! :0)
Someone please tell me what PDD-NOS is. I've not heard of it before.
Also, many, many vacines were given to children before the recent "outbreak" of autism. So how can the vaccine be blamed?
My son is now 32 yr. old. At age 4 he was diagnosed as ADD and a couple years later it was ADHD. I could not figure out the HD part as he could sit and do projects or play video games for hours but did not wish to be disturbed. He had a very hard time with school and quit at 15. He did go to Job Corp and got his GED. He wants to get some college but cannot make it. He loves mechanical things. He gets a job and it lasts 2-3 days and he is termed.
Now due to the movie TEMPLE GRANDIN and research we really believe he is on the high end of the spectrum with Aspergers. We (his parents) are on SS fixed income so do not have the money to get him to the proper dr to be diagnosed. He lives at home so we put a roof over his head, food in his tummy and buy his clothing plus personal items he needs. One of the big things is he will argue with his father and me. We can prove that he is wrong about something and he will not admit he is wrong.
Yes it is hard to raise a child like this. When he was young people would tell me to put him in an intuition. I would not. He was always on the go so I had a big job to take care of him. He never slept the night through until after a year and also would not go to sleep until after midnight. Before he was 2 he would climb our 6' cyclone/chain link fence and be gone. Police would find him and bring him home. His brother 2 yr. younger is the exact opposite. He is married with a baby, has a college degree and going for more plus has a great job/career going. Problem is the brother does not understand how this works. He just thinks his brother is lazy cuz he does not have a job.
I pray that shortly we can get him officially diagnosed so he can get some help to better his life. We are in our late 60's so will not be here for him forever.
Jackie start making phone calls to the local hospitals and see if anyone can direct you to whichever place handles autism diagnosis. You may be directed to some place that specializes in diagnosis (probably a long waiting list though) and once you get a diagnosis there may be programs he would qualify for (including disability assistance).
Grandy-- hate to break it to you, autism is NOT a get rich quick scheme. I have aspergers, I have never "lived off the government," or got a payout from having aspergers. My son has autism, a kind of lower functioning case of autism, most therapy ranges from $80-200/hour. This kid is a million dollar baby, one year alone costs $250,000+. Lucky insurance covers the doctor's visits, but I have to spend over $7000 to even deduct the rest of the medical expenses-- to include vitamins, nutritional supplements (due to food intolerances and allergies), and gas getting to and from therapy. Needless to say, autism is a vacuum cleaner that sucks money out of your pocket like a trip to Disney World. And most of the people, I know who have children who are borderline do not get enough money to live off the government.
This is a wonderful article. It sounds like this man has OCD in combination with Aspergers , which do not always go hand in hand. Also, the article should have stated that Aspergers as of 2012 is no longer recognized as a diagnosis, it is now part of the autism spectrum; which i personally feel is dangerous.
Children of Aspergers tend to be unusually brilliant, speak early and clearly while making direct eye contact--this is not the case with Autism. The wonderful thing about Aspergers is that the children are usually smart enough if you tell them how their behavior is causing social problems to themselves or their peers they are smart enough to make quantifiable changes. Many people with Aspergers have the ability to break down social situations into mathmatical like components. I personally love speaking to brilliant people with Aspergers.
I would agree with all of this except for the eye contact....that can be quite painful for some aspies. :)
my son makes ridiculously long eye contact--like he is staring into your soul lol
My son has Asperger's and did NOT & at 16 still does not make eye contact. He has been thru social skills group but some things ARE painful for them. Also, making Autism one diagnosis IS beneficial as we did not qualify for ANY services or extra help. Lucky for us my son's dad had a good job and good insurance. And lastly, people with "regular" autism, meaning they are non-verbal or non-physical, are not stupid. They are stuck in their head JUST like OTHER autistic people. I explain to people that the issue would be similar to someone speaking a foreign language to you and you understand but are unable to respond in the same language. Just because their autism presents differently doesn't mean it isn't caused by the same issue. The piece of brain that connects the left and right brain is either not fully developed or is nonexistant.
My son with Aspergers can look family members in the eye, but has trouble with everyone else.
Same here-my 17 year old avoids eye contact like the plague,and then there are others,often further along on the spectrum,who will just look at you completely open,as if they are exploring your face and soul.Ohh, to find the happy medium.
My son was diagnosed with Asperger's, but as you said, this categorization was changed to the autisitic spectrum. As explained to me, this was done at least in large part because no assistance was offered to those with Asperger's. Being on the autistic spectrum, he qualifies for educational assistance. And for those ready to jump on the "all you want is a hand-out" bandwagon, the assistance is only access to special education classes.
Scott, this is not correct. My son has for years had an Asperger's diagnosis and has received special education since his diagnosis. This also gives you the opportunity to get disability for your child and discounted or FREE assistance with programs. HOWEVER, for those of you who have the aforementioned "all you want is a hand-out" comment, it is VERY expensive to deal with these issues. There are MANY MANY MANY hours of therapies that these kids need in order to help them function in society. My son has individual counseling, speech therapy, social skills education. We have had to pay for parental education on how to help him so ANY help that a family can get may save them financially. Just because their child doesn't have a terminal disease doesn't mean that it isn't expensive to help them.
Also, just an added bonus to this convo: keep your child on an IEP through out school (k-12) and NOT a 504. If you are able to do this, your child's IEP will follow them thru college which would provide added assistance in an overswhelming environment.
Kallie, you would be wrong. The key word is "compulsion". People with OCD do it because they can't help it and it makes their lives miserable. Autistics do it because rituals bring them comfort and it orders their world. Mess with their ritual and you will set off an autistic. But, as long as you allow an autistic their ritual, they are fine. OCDers are NOT fine with the ritual and it makes them anxious either way. Autistics live in a bubble and the rest of you are just visiting. The rituals are part of the bubble. With me, it's television. I watch the same television shows over and over and over. It drives my husband nuts but it brings me comfort, especially when I overly stressed out. I do things in certain order. Break the order and I get anxious. Some things are worse than others. I wear the same kinds of clothes because I am particular about the feel of certain materials. I cannot stand the feel of constriction. I do wear different things occasionally but, as soon as I get home, I strip them off and on come the yoga pants and t-shirt! I have a billion pairs of yoga pants and the same t-shirt in a ton of colors and I wear them constantly because I just cannot stand the feel of jeans on a regular basis or anything other than t-shirt material. And shoes.....I love cute shoes but all I wear is flip flops. Why? Because I cannot stand to actually WEAR shoes. I do wear cute shoes but, again, special occasions and short periods of time. See? It's not OCD. It's purely ritualism for the sake of keeping me sane. It keeps my anxiety levels down.
Hollywood: DUDE you do this too??? Sometimes I watch shows or movies over and over for the comfort factor. Even I do not entirely understand why I do this but sometimes when the world seems scary I guess I just want to hide in a simple pleasure that I do not not have to negotiate or figure out....WOW.
I would have to agree with you OCD was also involved. I was diagnosed an Aspberger at 46 but I never displayed that type of order. It is true an Aspberger likes things to be in order but it is not an overwhelming absolute. An Aspberger is more methodical in thinking. Some of the worlds brightest minds are Aspbergers. It affects less than 2% of the population.
#Hollywoodunderground, you are so right about OCD. I have it, and I AM miserable whether or not I give in to the impulses. At work, it takes me about 3 minutes longer to close out the registers because I cannot put the bills back in the drawer unless they are all facing the same way. It causes me great psychic pain if I am forced to not straighten them, lasting all day. I am fortunate that my OCD presents itself in fairly benign ways that I can accomodate, after living with it for over 50 years, I've become quite adept at indulging my disorder. I have found that NOT going with my impulses usually costs me more time in fighting them. Unfortunately, my symptoms become more pronouned when I'm severly stressed, thats when they interrupt my life because they prevent me from functioning normally. I have been a life long sufferer from depression and diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, never Aspbergers. Btw, my first husband died shortly after our 20 year anniversary, we have 4 grown children and I am happily remarried. Many, many people with behavioural/mental disorders lead "normal" lives.
I was born with spina bifida and hydrocephalus before doctors routinely installed shunts in order to drain the spinal fluid off the brain. I grew up feeling that I was being held prisoner in my head. I was never tested for autism but my home-bound teacher suggested to my mother, when I was in the first or second grade, that I should be tested for autism. My parents were poor and my siblings feel that my father had some mental problems; I have suspected that my mother may have had some mental problems. I have a sister who was born with one kidney and she has Bi-Polar illness.
The difference between Autism and Asperger's is the Autistic lives in a world of their own the Aspie lives in our world but in their own way.
My son has Asperger's and he is brilliant. He is now 22 and in the computer science field. He is also a great communicator and has an excellent sense of humor and loves sarcasm, which I was told he would never get. So glad they were wrong.
My grandson is only 8 years old..Is Aspergers....and IS Brilliiant...But with Social and Behavorial Prolems...Any Input either You or your son can give...to Help "Us" To Help him achieve a a 'Good and Productive Life' as he Matures, etc...would be So-o-o Welcome !!!
Thanks !!!
If you can get him some help at someplace like Joshua Center mentioned above, do so.
You've got to tell him things he "ought" to know automatically, like, "Don't pick your nose in public" or "When you say it that way, it offends people. Say it this way instead." If he's like me, he's very concrete and pattern oriented. Show him the patterns of behavior that are important to master. Don't just tell him to stop doing something, also tell him what to do instead.
Show him that there is cause and effect with people like there is with objects. Try and teach him to make the "pattern identification task" (which we aspies are good at) figuring out how to navigate the social world. The social world is a very confusing place to us. Until we understand the pattern, each interaction is almost a brand new thing with a whole new set of unknowns. It feels a little bit like walking from one minefield to another all day, every day. I'm willing to bet that a lot of his behavioral problems are borne of frustration and anxiety because of that fact. You're always playing a game that seems to have no discoverable fixed rules, and you're punished severely for losing.
Also, be very direct with him. Lots of people nuance their words in order to avoid giving offense, but we don't get nuance very well.
Always match your facial expressions with your words, and over dramatize your facial expressions somewhat. Don't do the "silent lie" thing to him that I mentioned above. Don't tell him you're fine when you're not fine. You'll just confuse him. Tell him what's wrong, or tell him that something is wrong and you don't want to talk about it right now, or that something's wrong but it's private.
Give him Emily Post's Guide to Good Manners and make him read it. My wife recommended that to me.
I think this is a wonderful story.
My husband wasn't diagnosed until he was over 40. It's a hard journey and we still haven't gotten it right.
What a beautiful way to share...thank you! You got a vote up from me!
Same here, Funkychik. My partner was just diagnosed a few weeks ago. It's comforting to know that we're not the only ones.
This article is very interesting, but it confuses me. Did he not have these symptoms in his youth, teens and early twenties? They don't mention that, and I thought that people were BORN with "Autism spectrum disorders", and didn't simply develop them at some point later in life. Maybe someone will clarify that for me.
Individuals wiht Aspergers are frequently highly functional, excellent in engineering and math. They include individuals like John Nash the Nobel Prize winner. Possibly even Albert Einstein. Their strengths over shadow their weaknesses.
My son is 35 and exhibits all of the classic signs of Asperger's. As a child, he was a real handful and could be extremely difficult - always had to have the last word, fixated on certain toys and felt he needed to have several of the same one. Everything had to be done a certain way, and school was a major challenge. He wrote all of his papers with the same lay-out; upper right hand corner, squeezed into a 2"x4" area. Talks with the doctor produced nothing as Asperger's was relatively unknown. His social life took a hit because people were put off by his behavior. He has made some successful strides in this and some other areas, but he still has a long way to go.
I am NOT a clinical psychologist however, I DO have an Aspie. Although it IS a short article it sounds more like this man has OCD. Frequently Asperger's is misdiagnosed as OCD, ADHD, ADD, Etc because it can take on some of the same characteristics. I did not read anything to suggest, other than a diagnosis that could be wrong if diagnosed by someone with little or no experience with autism, that suggests that it IS in fact autism. (Just because someone has a mental health degree does not mean that they understand ALL psychological issues. Just like there are specialists for cancer, etc, there are specialists for autism.) It sounds like he was OCD, was able to keep it under control for "his girl" and it got out of hand by his change in life. His behavior SUDDENLY changed from "being the life of the party" to having OCD tendencies. Asperger's CAN be and has been diagnosed later in life, but generally the person or family has ALWAYS known that something was "wrong".
I bet this is a case of dual diagnosis. Asperger's syndrome and OCD often overlap in the same population, although this isn't ALWAYS the case. I myself am a dual and though the OCD is kept at bay with Luvox, the sensory issues are alive and well.
I think - speaking as someone with Aspergers who had that same "ah ha" moment in my early 30s - what happens is that when you are a teen and in your early 20s, so much is changing in your life in general for you and those around you, the rigid behaviors don't get noticed as easily. In my case, I had managed to create what I look at now as a "perfectly controlled world" for myself, and I had nobody BUT myself to answer to. It seems David was probably experiencing the same thing. Once you share your life with someone else though, and the perfect control that was there is gone, then the little things all get noticed. Then we (Aspies) tend to start wondering about things - ourselves, the way people react to us, etc... Realizing a diagnosis of Aspergers can be a very important and liberating moment. There is finally an answer! Dealing with it all from that point on, well, it doesn't get any easier, but at least knowing why we have the behaviors we do, and how we can try to relax them, it's a start. What would make a world of difference however is if people were more understanding to different personality types. What has always upset me is how we (Aspies) are considered to have rigid behavioral patterns, but in the same way, how can NTs (neurotypicals, "normal people") say they do not? By not accepting the quirky and different behaviors of people with Aspergers in many cases is no different than an Aspie having to have their stuff a certain way, or having an annoying personality quirk. It goes both ways, but unfortunately NTs fail to see that, and insist that people with Aspergers conform to do things the NT way when really, most of the time, there is nothing at all actually "wrong" with doing it in an individual way. What might be a mere annoyance for an NT can cause extreme stress and even physical illness in an Aspie who has to pretend to fit in.
Well said Lynn Cruz!! We are all so busy being pc but no one is trying to understand and accept differences in other people. Those differences are often VERY helpful:)
I can answer this as a recently self-diagnosed 39 year old. Aspergers is a fairly new diagnosis..hit the DSM in 1993 or so. I graduated high school in 1991, so through school noone looked for this. I've also read that girls are still largely underdiagnosed. I've been criticized all my life for little things like not making eye contact and not paying attention to the tone/volume of my voice when speaking. I have occasional periods of meltdown(screaming or crying or just running away), which I realize now are related to sensory overload. I've been called "gifted", "eccentric", "hyperactive", "shy" and a personal favorite coined by my mom "highly intelligent with no common sense". Not to mention some not so nice things. Because I'm intelligent and function "ok" in society, noone evr really looked for anything "wrong" with me.
It wasn't until I became a nurse working in a facility with autistic children that I heard of the disorder. I saw an inservice about it and when they were talking about aspie behaviors just kept shaking my head and saying "but...I do that". I also dated a diagnosed aspie (10 yrs younger and a boy) and noticed how alike we are, although my coping skills are better than his. It's an amazing feeling to finally put a name to the feeling of always having been "a little different".
My son was diagnosed with Asperger's at age 16 1/2. He was a kid who was difficult at home and very temperamental, but he could hold it together at school. I thought the temper he would grow out of. As time went by, he couldn't hold it together at school anymore and started getting in trouble. It got worse through high school not better. He is intense and brilliant. If you (or worse, a teacher) say anything incorrect he cannot rest until he corrects you. It is not good enough that he knows the truth, he must make sure all students in the room do also. He has depression along with Asperger's because his Asperger qualities make him "creepy" to many girls and although he has had 2 girlfriends, he still feels like his "creepiness" will turn girls off forever. He has been hospitalized twice for suicidal ideation (once before and once after his diagnosis). He is not 18 and going to a local junior college because even though he was accepted to a UC, he is not ready to be out on his own. We live in California but he is terrified about learning to drive since he cannot control other people on the roadway. He has clothing issues. He has order issues. He also has a condition called Cyclic Vomiting Syndrome which causes days and days of vomiting for no other reason that we can discern besides nerves. He is my middle of five children and it wasn't until his diagnosis that he was able to understand that there really was something different about him that wasn't his fault. We have been able to find some medications that help him tolerate frustration (and tolerate life). These two things (diagnosis and med) have helped him to change from scary, angry brother to fun and helpful brother. But also a brother who sometimes wants to be left alone. We all learn together as a family what works and what doesn't and we are still learning.
Dear Ms. Lynn Cruz Malpass:
Admitting here to being 'self-diagnosed' with Asperger's "gift-affliction" at age 70 nearly two years past, I am not certain at this juncture what I am to make of it, what expectation to have as to what it portends for my future.
Never married, I now understand how the "gift-affliction" was instrumental in this unwanted, undesirable circumstance coming to be.
Also, multitudes of seminal negatively-impacting events in my life which left me, at different times, either singularly or in combination feeling, devastated, stupid, discombobulated, angry, confused, defeated, in surprised and shocked awe, stunned, unreal or disconnected which, in turn oft evolved into deep and prolonged major depression.
A physically and emotionally brutal childhood in conjunction with at least two preteen major head injuries, unrestrained head-to-concrete concussions and attention deficit disorder and OCD it has not been a joyful or fruitful journey into my eighth decade of life.
It was in 1976 that the title of a book, an autobiography, first occurred to me, to wit: NORTH IS WHERE THE SUN SETS.
Well, Ms. Malpass, there are tons and tomes of things I wish I could convey to you and others who might pass over these words; truly I want such to be so.
But, due to the conflation of all that I have revealed here I have no way of knowing to what degree I will be able to accomplish such a, to me, such a urgent and important project.
Indeed, some small degree of effort and progress has been made toward my goal. Such being an effort by me at FanStory.com where some completed, disjointed chapters of my effort are recorded as a work-in-progress along with a collection of a dozen or two poems of acclaim by me.
Sincerely in pursuit of truth, justice, peace, enlightenment, love and happiness,
David Tecumseh Schmidt aka MuChunGe 09251837/12
There was an article I read recently that women, who have aspergers are largely undiagnosed, because they are better at adapting to societal norms. I have aspergers, was diagnosed at 36 by a clinical psychologist. For a long time, I was just able to "act" normally. I had enough self awareness and examples to know when I should have empathy. I have a photographic memory and will write down in a notebook to ask "Jane about her grandmother," or "Lisa about her children." Sometimes I even have it on my smart phone. The biggest issue for me was always spoken communication. I can follow written and pictorial conversations, but when it comes to someone telling me what to do or talking to me, I will blank out of conversations. I think that's part of some of my ritualistic behaviors, because I do want to be successful and integral part of society, and I found the only way for me to accomplish that is to have rituals.
And they probably do. I'm a wife of a man who was dignosed with aspergers at 48 and a son diagnosed with aspergers at 6 yrs old. The unfortunate thing is they believe it's hereditary, but if caught in children there is help. Try being a little sympathetic to those who have aspergers and those that love them.
Amen to that. I hope things work out for you.
Lindag - it has for my son the therapy has helped lessen things. Hubby tries very hard and we both try to remember the other's point of view.
It's called anxiety. Sorry, you can't become Asperger's with the flick of a light. He got married, he probably had some underlying anxiety about commitment, sharing his life, etc. and it manifested in these rituals. My opinion.
Sincerely,
A clinical psychologist
Roots,
If you were a "clincal psychologist" you would never try to make a diagnosis based on a news story via the internet. Now go away.
I don't know that many qualified therapists who would make a diagnosis off an article. Having a husband who has Asperger's myself, I'm confident this is not your area of expertise.
You are no clinical psychologist as if you were you would know that many adults with high functioning autism can go undiagnosed for a long time and sometimes can die before they get diagnosed.
And all those misdiagnosed with anxiety that actually have Aspergers.
He's reactions and mannerisms certainly do not seem to reflect anxiety in the least, from what is stated in the article.
Sincerely,
Parent of a son misdiagnosed by clinical psychologists
Did you read the article?
I sincerely hope that you are NOT a clinical psychologist because you just diagnosed David based off of a five minute article into their life. Anxiety? Really? The article never said anything about this hitting him with "the flick of a light". It is possible for people to suffer disorders and diseases without ever finding out. People make up what they perceive as normal and just deal with things, never knowing that there could actually be a reason behind whatever it is they deal with or suffer with.
If they didn't live together until after marriage, it is possible that he was simply able to hide some of the more extreme behavior from Kristen, NOT to be deceptive but just to make a good impression because he cared for her. It's hard to hide anything from a spouse under your roof though.
Somewhere, there is the worst clinical psychologist in the nation, and I would say that this person has serious contention for that title. Simply being a clinical psychologist doesn't mean much--a psychologist has a PhD, not an MD (and, yeah, I've got a PhD too--no big shakes, friend). A psychologist generally specializes in one area and not another--and if one's speciality is anxiety, it would explain why one would have the "I have a hammer, so everything's a nail" syndrome.
Yes, I've been around people with what was called "Asperger's syndrome" and is now called "high functioning autism." My husband probably has this syndrome, and my daughter has a milder version.
It is quite obvious that the woman was using a variation of the Ritvo Autism Asperger Diagnostic Scale--Revised (RAADS-R). It is actually quite a useful diagnostic instrument, and you can read about it in the Journal of Autism & Developmental Disorders, August 2011, Vol. 41, Issue 8, pgs. 1076-1089.
A diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome is not the same thing as the development of Asperger's syndrome--and those with a milder version of the syndrome often were not diagnosed previously since people used to simply consider such individuals "eccentric" or "nerdy."
Someone who doesn't know the distinction between diagnosing something in an adult that has been manifesting since s/he was a child, and suddenly developing a syndrome in adulthood, would either be a serious contender for the "worst clinical psychologist in the world" or probably isn't one at all.
If there's a diagnostic instrument for adults, then this is a common enough issue that someone bothered to develop a diagnostic instrument for adults (and revise it, too). Enough said.
.
It's an online article. I gave a quick summary based off of it. I certainly wouldn't diagnose anyone after 5 minutes into a session. Frankly. I diagnose because insurance companies write the rule book (but that's another story). If I knew my "diagnosis" would be taken for Gospel then I would have not given my opinion. If you reread my comment, I said he has anxiety. I didn't say he has an anxiety disorder, I said he has anxiety.
Maybe the article doesn't mention anxiety but he certainly has many symptoms of anxiety (yes, that overlap with the autistic spectrum) including: social discomfort, control issues, irritability, obsessive compulsive tendencies, cognitive distortions, among others.
As for my "flick the light" comment, it was based off his wife describing his change as "night and day."
Mr. Finch, if you are reading: My apologies if my comment offended you. I think it's great that you've done so well, I applaud your efforts and being so open about your life. If you are reading and don't mind, would love to hear your thoughts on how anxiety has played a role in your life, if at all.
However, I'd like to point out that if you think an MD is usually more qualified than a PhD when it comes to psychological/mental health, then good luck to you. Yes there are some MDs that are great, but in my experience, they aren't usually well-trained for psych issues.
lol, thank you to the clinical psych... autism, the dx of the day... I would say OCD w/ yes, anxiety, but, I only have very limited information
roots- you obviously do not work with individuals with ASD. I as the parent of 2 on the spectrum know that anxiety goes hand in hand with ASD. I see it everyday.
If you speak marsian and everyone around you speaks earthling wouldnt you be nervous all the time in public in society?
Wouldnt you develop rituals to combat that anxiety? Its often seen in children using scripting and Echolalia.
And when those dont work they stim. in children its hand flapping and other repeative behaviors. In adults it can manifest differently.
Most adults with aspergers syndrome have learned to mimic NT behavior. they have learned to "pass" as NT when in public. They let thier NT "costume" come down when they are at home in private.
ASD is never a stand alone condition. It always has co-morbid conditions with it.
If you really are a mental health "professional" you should know not to render an "professional" public opinion on the basis of a news article. especially since your opinion is in conflict with the diagnosis this patient has received. If you are a mental health professional I hope you do not work with those with ASD as you seem woefully un-educated about ASD and those on the spectrum.
can also be a meat/dairy allergy... just sayin'
Explain how an allergy can cause this.
Certain foods cause people with Asperger's a lot of digestive problems. Not sure if it's actually "allergies", but maintaining a good, healthy diet seems to be key.
Many moms of Aspies are noticing improvements in their children's symptoms by changing their kids' diets. wholenewmom.com touches on how dietary changes helps her son and mentions that the original patients
Hans Asperger studied were all celiacs. interesting?
It's great to see that he's happy with the changes. It's great to see that he has the self-awareness to recognize what he can do to improve the way he responds to stimulus. It's great if he's able to catch himself about to do something awkward and stop it before it happens. But by its very definition, most people with Aspburgers do not have the capacity to do this.
I would say this guy has some Aspburgers 'tendencies' but if he is able to improve his active listening skills, self-awareness, situational awareness, empathy and all the other key emotional intelligence traits, then he doesn't really have Aspburgers.
He is simply a nerd who was a very late bloomer in learning how to behave in social situations. As far as all the OCD stuff (the clothes, the staring out the window, the breakfast preparation), that's a separate issue. He's fixing his social awkwardness but how is he doing with the OCD?
I would consider him a nerd with OCD. And if he's able to cure his OCD and his social awkwardness, then he definitely doesn't have Aspburgers.
A lot of people think this way, but people with Asperger's can and DO learn coping skills. The problem is that once they have the ability to "pass" as nuerotypical, most choose to do so, so the population at large doesn't have the chance to see an aspie connecting or learning social skills. I hope this will someday change.
"I hope this will someday change" Go— Obama
Hope and change! I noticed your post name. Hard to get those words out of your head, huh? everything is change and hope, hope and change. The new bumper sticker is 'forward' - you should have said "someday I think this will go forward"!
dbers: I have Asperger's syndrome and am someone you would likely not pick out if I didn't tell you. The reason you think that mocking me for wanting other people, who have gained control of their lives to show pride is just something I cannot understand. Your reaction is just hateful.
My son has "high functioning autism", I'm very aware of all these symptoms and difficulties for people afflicted. I just thought it was very funny you used "hope and change" in your comment and your post name is Go_Obama! Hilarious!
A person with dyslexia can learn to read. A person with dysgraphia can learn to write. A person with dyscalculia can learn to do math.
A person with Asperger's syndrome can learn to mimic social skills, can learn by rote what behaviors to display which are appropriate in a given situation, and can improve at least the appearance of his/her social skills.
People with dyslexia have to adopt different tactics to read--sometimes they must wear rose-colored glasses (not a joke), sometimes they must isolate words on a page using some sort of shield (I use two index cards taped one above the other to isolate lines of text and keep my eyes from bouncing around). But, no, they never learn to read just like others do.
Will it make you laugh, by the way, that I teach English and I have dyslexia? I know more than a few dyslexic English teachers--we have to work at it so hard that we develop a particular love for language.
People with Asperger's are completely capable of mimicking other people--in fact, they are gifted mimics and often gifted actors. If one takes this skill and trains the person to use it in order to mimic social skills well enough to "pass," well then, that person has "passed" as having social skills.
Empathy is an innate ability, but people judge it by exterior actions. One can study those actions, systematize them, and mimic them. If one "acts" empathetic, will other people know that it is a skill acquired from hard work rather than innate? Does it matter?
A syndrome is not an identity--one can learn to compensate for the negative aspects of the syndrome while simultaneously exploiting the positive aspects (and there are many positive aspects to what some call "hyper-focus ability"--that is, "Asperger's").
Let's not confuse a syndrome with a pathology. Asperger's is not a disease--it refers to a person who has high skills in some areas and low skills in others. Or, are we going to start pathologizing people with marvelous people skills who just can't understand math and science?
Yes, people with Asperger's can acquire what look like social skills to other people who do not know them well. They can, and they should. This will help them to better interact with their families (and people with low-level, undiagnosed Asperger's often get married even though people with diagnosed autism rarely do) and to be more successful at work.
I am so tired of this "your syndrome is your destiny" junk. And, by the by, people with PTSD can function perfectly well in the world, too. So can people with depression, so can people with anxiety disorders. If people who can't do math well can function in the world, so can the rest of us.
My apologies.....I guess I get a bit sensitive cuz people are always slamming me about my screen name. :) It is kinda funny that I chose that phrase though. :)
dbers - I hope you're voting for Obama.
Since what autism support there is in this country is likely to go away under the other choice.
I think you're mistaken on a few points most people with Asperger's are painfully self-aware that their behavior is atypical, though almost always only in retrospect not on the spot they just don't understand why their behavior was atypical. In fact they almost inevitably will develop some coping mechanisms on their own accord be it withdrawal from social situations or in the case of the man in the article mimicking the behavior other people in social situations.
The stumbling block is that because people with Asperger's working from a completely different mindset from neruotypical people they don't really understand exactly how develop the best coping mechanisms as the ones they develop on their own typically are only effective within a limited context (again something the man in the article experienced)
As for the ritualistic behavior he displayed, its fairly common among people with asperger's and only superficially resembles OCD. You need to bare in mind that people with asperger's think almost exclusively in contextual and environmental terms and perpetually orienting themselves accordingly its a mentally taxing way to going about things and a source of considerable stress. Engaging in rituals is a means of controlling their environmental stimulus and reducing sources of stress by limiting their environmental stimulus to a familiar/predictable context. Disrupting their routines even slightly becomes a source of stress because it forces to them account for expected factors and re-orient their entire thought processes. Basically it derails their train of thought completely and they have to put cars backs on the rails one at a time in accordance with a new and unexpected context which is stressful and the entire reason why the established the ritual in the first place. While that sounds the same as OCD there's a huge difference: namely that while a person with asperger's and ritualistic behavior is no more responsive to social considerations than a person with OCD when it comes to their ritualistic behavior a person with asperger's is exceedingly responsive to environmental stimulus and will usually cease their ritual and will respond to that environmental stimulus immediately while person with OCD typically will not or will struggle to do so.
Drake: you hit the nail on the head; we understand that our behavior is awkward and socially wrong....we just don't understand what about it is wrong or why. I liken it when I talk to people to how it would feel to show up at a formal ball in jeans and a t-shirt and somehow not be AWARE that you had done this. Now imagine that feeling watching responses from others akin to that response all of your life and not knowing what you had done.
Bean@home -
THIS. Yes, exactly. I get it, too. "You can't have Aspergers. You're too "normal"." This from people who don't live with me, don't really see or experience the behaviors other than when I have my game face on, so they don't really know. People fail to realize that not only is AS a VERY complex neurologic syndrome, it is different for everyone. A saying I love reads "Met one person with Aspergers, met... one person with Aspergers," and it's the truth, really. The stereotypes are just that... stereotypes. We are not all "Rainman", and there are probably more people who fit the diagnosis of Aspergers who are undiagnosed than anyone would ever believe.
Go_Obama -
Your analogy to showing up at a formal in jeans and t-shirt and not knowing you're dressed wrong is PERFECT. It really does seem like that!
My paternal side of the family, father, grandfather, etc. had a lot of OCD. My Dad was on xanax for over 20years, until it started affecting his peristalsis in his intestines. My daughter has GAD, and she is on lexapro, which keeps her OCD under control. I started taking lexapro also, and my OCD which was mild is gone now, such as worrying if I turned off the coffeepot, etc. My Dad was very bad, and I emailed his doctor "Please try putting him on lexapro." so he tried three times. All three times, my Dad would begin to act very normal, then decide that it was causing diarrhea, so he would go off of it again. The end of his life would have been so very much better than it was. So out of four generations, all of us are on lexapro and all of the OCD and ADD is pretty much gone or under control. At work, as a nurse, I asked the doctor if we could change this one patient from zoloft to lexappro and he did so, just as a trial. She calmed down and lost all of her OCD tendencies. Her son told me "Thank you for giving my Mom back to me." It seems to me that OCD and high functioning aspergers go together. In OUR family, anyway.
Why the plug for lexapro? As a nurse you should know that medication effects everyone differently depending on their unique biochemistry...I'm always a little nervous about a medical professional that raves about a "magic pill"
What an encouraging and positive story! Congratulations to David and Kirsten for their commitment to change in order to make life together a growing and healthy experience for themselves and their family. Some people fight a diagnosis, but education about a condition is often the key to moving forward. Thank you for sharing this.
Asbergers has been around for awhile but that doesn't mean its been recognized enough to get the information out to people who need it. Sort of like ADHD. There are LOTS of people who have it and don't know it. My husband who's almost fifty just recently realized that he has Asbergers. He only found out because his 12 year old son was diagnosed and they started recognizing the signs. This is a difficult disorder to handle and takes someone who is very understanding and patient. Good article. I'm right there with them. Its been an adjustment living with a husband and stepson who have it and didn't know it. Its hard but worth it.
i think it is a wonderful story. people that are high functions Aspergers can just be thought to be a bit weird acting but other than that they are usually very intelligent. i know two that are married with very intelligent children
A wonderful story. Congratulations to the both of them.
I can relate. I have been told by my parents and my wife that I probably have Aspergers, but have yet to be officially diagnosed at age 31. With aspergers giving people special talents, I use mine to my advantage actually. With driving, I have a talent of memorizing a route and planning a route in very little time.
Aspergers is for real, not a made up condition or excuse. Some very intelligent and very creative people have Aspergers. I myself have always had Aspergers but it was not diagnosed until I was in my forties.
Some people on the spectrum including myself have extreme sensitivities to sensory input in addition to their problems in sending and receiving social cues. I too always wondered how parties could be considered "fun" by most people. The noises, lights, sounds, smells etc make such places excruciatingly painful for me to be around, not fun at all, not to mention not being able to relate to what most other people are interested in plus their not being in the least interested in what fascinates me.
Just a couple years ago I was finally set up with the Developmental Disabilities branch of the local health department. Their assistance has made a tremendous difference in the quality of my life, but everything is still too intense all the time and I still can't connect with other people the way most non-autistic humans can. My brain is wired differently. As with many things in life, there are advantages and disadvantages to my condition. I hope medical science someday can do something about the bad parts without taking away the good parts.
Bingo! I am an aspie too, and learning social cues was easy next to trying to negotiate the sensory muddle! It's hard when just everything on earth is too loud, isn't it? :)
When I was a teen, a freind thought I was autistic but not totally. My former brother in law pointed out to me that I never looked people in the eye, that was high school. My daughter took some psychology classes and decided I had Aspergers. That seeemed to explain why I am the way I am to her.
I don't connect with people well. I don't read people very well either. I miss all those cues others can pick up. I do get a long with my co-workers. They just think I am nuts because there are some things I have to do in certain ways. I wash dishes in a small restaurant.
I am single and have given up ever finding someone because of disconnections I have.
I have never been diagnosed with Aspergers but I am sure that is what I am. I do have a higher than average IQ except in areas relating to communications of all kinds.
I 'Totally' Agree...my 8 year old Grandson IS in This League...and we are Trying to Establish MORE Info...etc !!!
Obviously...to Help Him "Learn" and "Mature' into the Human He Was Created to "BE"...
Got a 'Pulse' ???
Then...Supposed to "BE" "HERE" ???...YES ???
My son is a very high functioning autistic and his IQ, when last measured about four years ago, was 137. Same for all the other autistic kids I know.
He needs some GD prozac.
And you need to be a nice person -- your completely rude and unnecessary comment shows you are anything but . . . . . .
Doctor, and I use that term loosely in conjunction with you, Do you know what prozac treats right? I don't see anywhere in this article that this person is diagnosed as being clinically depressed.
There is no medicine that treats autism or autism spectrum disorders.
Now maybe this was a Freudian slip and its actually you that needs the prozac ... I'd suggest you discuss that with your doctor really soon.
In fairness, prozac does work for OCD.
Prozac does nothing for Aspergers. I was put on prozac when I first started seeking help for my issues. Prozac sucks for Aspergers.
It is nice to see a story about autism that does not hyper focus on the negatives and instead keeps things balanced. For those who are on the spectrum seeing such things can be oh so depressing and it leaves society with a skewed view of things because the knowledge they gather is only partially complete.
My son was diagnosed at 33 and we are working through it. The hardest thing for him is to make meaningful relationships and keep them. Aspies are quirky but you have to learn to love them. And if you look within yourself, you may be a little quirky too.
This man's story resonates with me and I would guess with many others with Aspergers. I was diagnosed by my Father at a young age. He in fact became a psychologist to understand why he was "different". He spent his life concealing what he knew, because when he was growing up, it landed you in institutions. Niether he nor my mother ever disclosed my condition to me, but worked to ensure it would not be a liability for me either. I found out only because my daugher in law is involved in autism, and met someone with Aspergers through her work.
I consider it a gift, I am "different", and that difference comes with some advantages that I would never choose to give up.
THAT'S an awesome story!!! My son asked me one day, "Mom, if you could take away my Asperger's would you?" He caught me off guard. I had never really thought about it. It was just something we accepted. After I thought for a minute I told him, "Although I would LOVE to be able to make life a little easier for you, if I took away your Asperger's it would probably change who you are. You are funny, incredibly intelligent and a bit quirky and whose to say this isn't due to Asperger's? I LOVE who you are and I wouldn't change you for anything. Besides, life is difficult. It you didn't have this issue to contend with, it would be another one."
Thank you for sharing.
My Wife also took an unofficial test for Asperger’s. Normal scrore is about 15 for male 14 for female. Her score is 32. She isn't the life of a party by no means, doesn't have any traits of OCD. She is quiet to the point that people inquire if she speaks English. She sometimes get fustrated over socialization. You ask her a question and get no answer then you ask why she did not answer and she'll tell you she did and you didn't hear it.
Sound familar to anyone? I'm not by any means an expert on Asperger’s, but I know something is wrong with her. I choose to work with it on my terms as well as hers.
Jon, my wife goes thru the same with me. She compalins about the same things. She will ask me something and I answer. But if she doesn't hear me, I get upset and don't want to repeat it. I have OCD, and been that way for a long time. I have many qualities I wish I didn't have. I should take this test, since I never heard of it. But just so you know, if your wife is the same as me, she isn't trying to be mean. She feels no one understands. OCD makes people moody over little things, and boy do I have mood swings.
I have to run, but I look forward to hearing more about what's happening.
A good friend of mine has recently been diagnosed with Aspergers. We have been able to find find the humor in it and put that to good use. It makes things a lot easier for him, and us around him. I know that when I need something designed and built, say for my car, I can rely on him. He will make whatever I need EXACTLY the way I vision, just...don't try and help him lol. Basically, there are things that friends and family can do to make everything easier and more tolerable.