By Mary Kozelka
Rock Center
In a nondescript industrial park in Salt Lake City, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints maintains a vast 500,000 sq. ft. warehouse with enough goods to rival your local Costco. From wheelchairs and toilet paper to sugar and bread, The Utah Bishops’ Central Storehouse is stocked.
Despite the prevalence of Mormon business success stories in the media -- most notably Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney -- one quarter of all U.S. Mormon households earn $30,000 a year or less according to Pew Research Center.
The storehouse, along with 110 similar facilities spread across the country, is part of the Mormon effort to help those in need, Mormon and non-Mormon alike.
“We'll help anyone at any time as long as we're able to do so and have those resources available to do so,” said Rick Foster, director of the church’s welfare operations, adding that there is no pressure to convert, but you do have to meet with your local congregation’s bishop, who will allow access to the store provided there is a need for assistance. The supplies are also available to help victims of natural disasters anywhere in the world.
While other religious and secular charities provide similar assistance to the world’s needy, the Mormon effort stands out in its organized self-sufficiency.
The storehouse and other facets of the Mormon welfare system, such as thrift stores, are primarily funded by Mormons who fast one Sunday every month for two consecutive meals, and then donate the money they would have spent on food to the church.
While medical supplies and other provisions are purchased by the church for the warehouse, almost all the food is sourced and produced by the Mormon community for charity. Fruit is harvested from Mormon orchards, vegetables are brought in from local Mormon farms, and even turkey and beef products found in the frozen section of the storehouse are brought in from Mormon ranches.
Not far from the Bishops’ Central Storehouse, in a place called Welfare Square, NBC’s Harry Smith watched Mormon volunteers bake bread, make cheese and bottle honey. These products are then packaged and most of them are donated to charity.
Thanks to these efforts, the storehouses hold enough supplies to support the church’s welfare efforts for an entire year.
Food and other supplies are transferred from the 110 regional storehouses to 142 grocery store-like setups across the country and around the world. No cash is accepted at these stores, but volunteer work is expected in return when those who received help are able to function independently again. The needy bring only their bishop-approved list and start shopping. Each store is staffed by volunteers.
“Some people come and it could be the worst day of their life.
They're really down. They've lost their job, their children are hungry. If they come and don't say one word, that's OK. As long as we didn't make them feel bad about coming for assistance,” said Sue Moore, who volunteers at Bishop Storehouse in Welfare Square in Salt Lake City.
Moore’s husband, Bob, reminisced about a homeless woman who came in search of food to feed her young children. The 6-year-old daughter looked at the food in disbelief and asked her mother: “Is this food for us?” He said such heartbreaking memories reinforce his belief in the cause.
“Life isn’t about getting something for nothing,” Bob Moore said.
Kirk Green, leader of a suburban Mormon congregation near Salt Lake City, agrees: “It's a commitment and a belief to follow Christ in the way that he lived his life. And one of the biggest ways he lived his life was taking care of the poor, those who are less fortunate, those who didn't have all the breaks in life.”
Editor's Note: Rock Center's in-depth look at the Mormon faith, 'Mormon in America,' airs Thursday, Aug. 23 at 10pm/9c on NBC's Rock Center with Brian Williams.
Leave a Comment:
If America had any real idea about the extremeness of the Mormon fairy tale, Willard Romney would be the laughing stock of the country right now.
Oh btw, there is a MOReMONey prophecy about world domination when a Mormon becomes President...just saying. Its all make believe anyway, but they believe it.
"Preparation," including storage of food for emergencies (famines do happen in the world) has been a part of the Mormon teaching since the beginning.
You may think it "extremist," unless things do get bad, either as a result of droughts or another catastrophe that causes a food shortage. There are some things the government cannot help with. Better to be prepared, I think, than to riot in the streets demanding the government to "do something," or to steal from those who may have had the foresight to prepare.
You have seen the videos of starvation due to natural and other disasters in other countries, haven't you?
And, by the way, I am not a Mormon.
Yup, We the corporations?, you've got it nailed. We need to watch out for those extremist Mormons volunteering their time and money to help others. It's so crazy to build up a supply of food and other goods to prepare for a disaster that hasn't even happened yet; much better to depend on the government.
I'm much more comfortable relying on atheists like you to feed and clothe the needy. I'm especially impressed by all of the large, efficient relief organizations organized and run by atheists. The Mormons and the Catholics could learn a lot from these numerous and effective atheists organizations.
And that report that was just published that correlated charitable giving with the degree of religious belief in each state; it must used bad data.
Oh, wait......LOL.
Mormons are also required to keep a years worth of supplies of their own if they can. No sense of entitlement. Kudos for that part at least.
Nice article. A good reminder to donate to your local food bank, even before the holiday pleas.
@David, I think corporations was referring to other beliefs in the Mormon faith, which are on par with some beliefs Scientologists have. But I agree with you, kudos on these mormons taking from those who have the means and giving to those in need - 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs'. Although I am surprised that they openly advocate this form of socialism, when are Romney and Ryan going to publicly denounce this redistribution and force these lazy bums to go beyond just 'volunteering' at these 'community organizations' and force them to actually get a job, remember, there are jobs out there, these people are just lazy.
Your hate of Mormons is obvious. I'm sorry you have to live your life with such negative thoughts about other people.
Just to address your 'Mormon prophecy of world domination when a Mormon becomes president' comment. Not true. Is this what you use to scare people away from voting for Romney? You should add that we have horns too. The more ridiculous you sound actually helps people you talk to want to find out for themselves what Mormonism is about.
@ Hypocrisy1776 - The difference is that the with the Mormons it's all volunteer. You are asked to give the cost of two meals a month and donate time to help produce, harvest or package the food stuffs from the church farms and mills. You are not forced to do so.
They church also asks that you in turn work, if possible, for the food, clothing or money they give you. They will ask you to spend some time each week giving back for the stuff they give you. (Only if you are able of course.) Not a lot of time either - they realize you need plenty of time to do things to help get you back on your feet like applying for work or going to school. Strangely, it's the part about working that turns so many people away from the church's help.
Also they don't skimp on the food and clothing they give the needy. Since they raise their own meat and grow their own crops, they feel everyone is entitled to the use of all of it. That means when they give you meat, you get hamburger of course but you get steaks and roasts too. They don't stash or sell the best cuts and give the fodder to the needy.
In at least some of the canneries, when the volunteers have packaged their goal, they are able to can for themselves. They are asked to buy that food but it's really just a nominal fee. The canned food is quite good too. Better than the generic food bought at most stores.
Say what you will about their beliefs, but it takes a major jackass to argue against this service they provide.
Such hatred & venom spewed at people helping others in need selflessly. It speaks volume about the character of the person commenting.
Let the Mormons believe whatever they wish, but their actions here on earth are commendable.
If you understand the history of the Mormon church and it founding by Joseph Smith, and with it the violent nature of the religion on the 1840's, along with it borrowing its rituals from free masonry as Joseph Smith was a freemason (as well as Charles Taze Russell who started the Jehovah Witness religion in the 19th Century) it is no wonder more people don't start tax exempt religions. This is not a Christian religion for all of those bible-thumping fundamentalists who questioned Barack Obama's religion. Obama happens to be the only Protestant in the race. The two VP's are Catholic.
Here are some questions I have about Romney's faith, seeing how he doesn't want to talk about it because he is fully aware he will lose the Bible Belt evangelical voters if he talks about his religion:
Why was founder Joseph Smith killed after shooting and killing two people while trying to escape from jail in Nauvoo, Illinois in 1844? What is his church’s position on it having a 5,000 man militia in Utah in the 1850’s and why were federal troops prepared to confront them? Why in 1857 were 140 men, women and children in a wagon train heading for California attacked and killed by Mormons posing as Indians?
I personally don't care if the Mormons do "good deeds" in order to ingratiate themselves into society. All church's do that.
If you read the real history of Joseph Smith (looking at stones in a hat to make predictions) and his having thirty wives with one only being a child of 14, and the weird beliefs - and not the fabricated version the religion will tell you, then you realize people can believe about anything and call it a religion.
This may sound offensive but it is really not. Are rational human beings not to question a religion just because it is a religion? If that is the case then we may as well elect a president he believes in voodoo. I would rather vote for a secular humanist, a Deist, or an Atheist then to vote for a Mormon or an Evangelical Christian who believes God is guiding them in all their decisions.
When I was a child I believed in ghosts. I only ask people to read the history of the Mormon religion and make your own decision.
several people missed the point. we the corporations wasn't talking about their stocking foods as extreme but rather some of the beliefs they have religously. some of them are weird but no more so than thinking a rib woman was convinced to eat from a magical tree by a talking snake and got humans thrown out of paradise.
I've always applauded the charitable actions of religious organizations even though there is an underlying contempt for anyone who does not believe as they do.
However, the issue about a Mormon president comes down to this. In the realm of the real world, which is where we live, anyone who believes in the book of Mormon and Joseph Smith, et al, is capable of believing just about anything. The degree to which a mormons faith exudes the person is not as relevant as is what they believe. For instance, Paul Ryan is one of the personhood bill sponsors(H.R. 212)but Romney has shied away from this front in an attempt to appear more mainstream. The only difference between Romney's and Ryan's position on abortion is in instances of rape. If you think that Ryan will not impose his "religion" on the rest of the country once he is sitting next to the president, then you will be happy with whatever Romney wants to force upon you as well. If you don't know what mormons believe, you should look it up.
pbs.org/mormons/
In SoCal where we live there is a large Mormon community and several of my neighbors happen to be Mormon. Some of them I have liked more then others, some I haven't cared for much at all and some are very good friends. None of them badger me or my family to join their church, occasionally teenage boys from the church will come around and ask if we need any work done in our yard or on the house. They own and operate several businesses in town most of which offer great service. I haven't seen any crazy cult like attitudes on display ever. I am not a religious man but can attest that the group of Mormon's I know are good neighbors and generally very nice people.
...And the Horse you rode in on....you are not very bright. Calrealist...you are what Horse wishes he was. Horse is one of those people that uses a man flipping you the bird and thinks that he is intelligent all at the same time.
I could care less about his religion. I worked with a Mormon woman and she was the most giving, kind person I know. She puts a lot of time in the church volunteering, working the food bank, canning for the food bank and they all help each other as well as others in need. Say what you want about Mormons but they are self reliant and selflessly giving of themselves -- unlike many of you with no faith or of a different faith. Stop being so negative and mean. Anything that puts Romney in a good light you are beside yourselves but what about your empty suit in the WH -- what's he done lately except pander the everyone except the taxpayer. Free giveaways to latinos, special interest groups, and lets not forget all those Hollywood and Hedgefund elitist that he pretends to hate. You people are so blind.
wswalcott:
What were the names of these two people, and their home towns? Why were they at the jail?
I took a history class while at University of Oregon years ago, and this was never mentioned, nor was it when I read the account of Smith's death in the archives of a New York newspaper that was published at the time.
mwebbo votes up his own posts and hides behind recently created profiles.
When the choice is a Muslim or a Mormon, I chose the Mormon.
I am not a Mormon myself but I have no problem with them. Many of my friends are of the Mormon faith and they don't hound me to join. They are probably the most helpful selfless people that I know.
Excuse me, do you have muslims hounding you to join? Is there a muslim running for president?
Yep his name is Obama
In the 1960 election, many people were questioning JFK's ability to be President due and Catholic at the same time. Most people don't know much about the Mormon faith. This article informs us that, like most major religions, the Mormons take care of the poor and needy.
What would be more useful, IMO, is more information on the background of the faith. What do Mormons believe ? How are they the same as Christians, how are they different ?
THAT is what would be good to know.
So you think this is NOT a cult?? Oh Nooooooooo....just regular folks doing Gods work...yeah..ok...you betcha
Love it - you have people like wswalcott and the horse you rode in on spewing stuff they obviously do not know. Yeah, I'll go to PBS to learn about Mormons because they know everything! Perhaps you should talk to an actual Mormon (like me) and ask questions before you sound like you don't know what you're talking about!!!
And the rest of Christianity? Those who believe in Virgin Birth and a Jewish Zombie? All religions have beliefs you can mock. Mormons believe theirs. Lutherans believe theirs. I don't see a difference. They have a perfect right to do so.
The easiest way to tell if a person has her head up her ass is to ask her if she believes if President Obama is a Muslim or not. If she says yes, then you know she is a hopeless case.
Some people hate Muslims. These people can vote for Obama without compromising their hatred. Well, at least of Muslims.
I think this is a great article that shows that, despite our different beliefs, we are all humans and should treat each other humanely. It doesn't matter to me what Mormons supposedly did in the 1800's. Christianity is filled with accounts of violence and horror. I grew up with a boy whose family was Mormon, and they were wonderful people. I don't know why the religion of our President matters so much. The quality of the person should matter more than his/her organized religion. There are good people and bad people of ALL faiths. Not all Christians are good, same as with any other religion.
I am a Catholic and a Democrat. I was taught to love all people, regardless of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. I am frightened by the hate that I see anonymously spewed in these forums (and in general) on a daily basis. To hate people who believe differently than you or who are a different religion (including Islam) is not Christlike. Christ preached love and kindness to all -- it seems the Mormons are practicing this on a daily basis.
p.s. For all the people claiming Obama is Muslim... first, get your facts straight. Second, if that's the best "attack" you have, I'm not too worried about November.
Will I ever go there if I hit rock bottom? sure...but will I stick around to listen to Mormons preach for hours on end about some fairytale? No thanks. Always a catch. They are using this to lure new members in.
Incidentally, Al Qaeda also have a big charitable effort. They were at the forefront to supply the poor and needy when the earthquake hit in Pakistan and also in the floods.
Give me the mormons over the socialists any day of the week!
And if Obama did this ... there would be more communist talk!!!!!!!!
How can people still believe Obama is a Muslim??? .. Have you seen how many times he has been photographed drinking beer? Muslims (and Mormons also) don't drink alcohol.
As to the article, I think it's very compassionate to provide charity, but don't proselytize while you do it.
And to the person who snarked about atheist charity, there are plenty of secular charities out there.
Kinda agree with wireman. I don't see Obama as a Muslim. A socialist bent upon changing this nation from being second to none into one just like the other western countries in trouble around the world, yes, but a Muslim, no. I voted for this President once, but never again. Romney/Ryan 2012.........
So let me get this straight, you guys (and you know who I mean) believe everything coming out of Obama's mouth and want to give someone else a hard time for believing in fairy tales? Riiiggghhhht.
Did you read the article? The Mormons are stockpiling goods for a Mormon social safety net, again I repeat they are not gathering goods to sell but to give out to members of thier church who are in need.
From the article..
Yep socialistic ideology at its finest.
A church that actually follows what it teaches...... this must be stopped.......
Just imagine if Romney could teach all Americans to be self-sufficient.... what a horrible place this would be..........
MSNBC gets it's FUNDING from OBAMA...........
Actually, they'll give it to anyone who truly needs it, not just members of their church. The biggest difference between what they do and socialism is that they give of themselves voluntarily. It's not forced on them by the church, which is why it's an inaccurate comparison to government mandated social nets. If you want to make a case for the government doing the same thing, this is a poor example from which to draw.
This is very commendable and now a days any and all help is needed. The Mormon people are probably like most sections of any society, most being good hearted and are trying to make their way through life and do a little good along the way.
There are the exceptions of course. Romney the Vulture Capitalist comes to mind. I'm sure he tithes (Peer pressure)and donates to charity (all deductible of course)but he doesn't fit into the mold of how the Mormon Church is presenting itself.
I'm sure that Romney doesn't believe himself to be evil, just head and shoulders above all the "little people".
I would like to know how the "separation of church and state" fits in with a President saying that he asked for Gods help to decide which buildings to bomb in Baghdad. Also, how does a "church" avoid paying taxes on businesses in strip malls and ranches that it "owns". If any company trying to compete in the American economy had to pay ZERO taxes, their income would increase exponentially, which I guess is why you can afford to have several 500,000 square foot buildings full of goods that you "give away". I cant help but think this article is in response to an article just days ago that pointed out the billions (yes BILLIONS) of dollars the Mormon church has tucked away, all tax exempt of course. That article said they were storing goods and buying ranches for when the apocalypse comes. Then you people will be forced to "visit the Bishop" or starve. Yes a good idea, I don't deny that, but again, if I could earn millions TAX FREE, I would also be stashing away warehouses full of stuff that I could distribute at my whim when the end comes. A rant I know, I just whole heart-idly disagree with tax free churches. IMO of course.
I'm sorry that so many people who post here believe that organized religion is so evil. If we are evil (and I am not a Mormon, I'm a Southern Baptist), why do we spend so much money and time and effort trying help people in disaster areas? When Katrina hit, the Kansas-Nebraska Convention of Southern Baptists had their disaster truck (a tractor-trailer with kitchen and food storage capacity) into Mississippi as soon as they could get clearance from authorities to go in. The operation is staffed by all volunteers who pay their own way to the disaster area. It took five (5) months before they were replaced by another kitchen and that was a Salvation Army kitchen truck. No state or federal agency even came close to the area except to drop off food at the feeding station.
The reason believers are much more interested in our efforts at charity is that the money, time, talents, food, etc., are freelygiven, not ripped away from us by a government that is becoming more socialist with every passing day. Remember the Baptists and Mormons and other groups when disaster strikes because we will be there before the government can get off the dime and even think about moving.
That is a matter of opinion. Please list examples of the Mormons helping the homeless. and examples of feeding those who are poor.
I do in fact believe in God, that Jesus Christ was born and died on the cross to save man from his sins. What have those who collect thousands if not millions of dollars done to help the homeless and help feed the poor.
With the large number of poor and needy in this country. They could empty these warehouses in a matter of days.
Put their money where there mouths are .... an ad in the papers in the areas where the warehouses are would create a long line of those that need help NOW!!
Then I might believe that, "they willhelp all the needy".
Religion is a business. No one said that religion was evil per se -- rather religion is in the business of selling something, basically stories.
In exchange for the stories that they sell the members pay salaries of the story tellers and other expenses. I am all for the informed consumer, so if you like the stories that you are buying, with your time, money and your votes, then by all means carry on.
Just please do not mistake this with anything that is actually spiritual. Spiritual is that moment when you understand that everything in the world is you and that you are in everything. Basically the opposite of religion.
Believe me I do not begrudge you your stories...I like good fiction novels myself...but what I do object to is you trying to run this country according to your stories.
@chris, talking to you about the book of mormon is useless in a political context. I have known many mormons who, like yourself, could not offer any insight into the political and social influence of the LDS on prominent members of the church. I have read enough to form the opinion that, while perpetuating the appearance that you seek to better the lives of everyone you encounter, your means are purely self serving. There is a reason that other christians despised Joseph Smith and ultimately murdered him, he was a fraud as is the Book of Mormon.
Wow. It all seems very Christlike for an organization that is often labled as not being Christian.
Well, its not christian, its polytheist where Willard becomes a god of his own planet.
In reality we evolved as a socialist species and fairy tales and stories like religion are the bonds that hold us together and give us an selective advantage. How funny huh, religion is just a tool evolution uses.
"We the corporations"
You probably voted for scary Harry Reid! (who is ALSO a Mormon!!!)
Are you implying that evolution is a tool-using entity, Wtc? Very ironic of you to make fun of religious people.
Well, Mormons believe in God and Jesus Christ, which is the definition of "Christian".. So
You must read "God, the evidence", a non mormom book that prove science, evolution and the creation are entertwined.
And, if evolution is real, can we not "evolve" to a higher power?
The "socialist species" idea points out that we will VOLUNARILY sacrifice for people we feel a kinship with. Not to be confused with miserable failure of a politican system that FORCES people to pay other people that they have nothing in common with. Exhibit A-- germany and greece.
correct, @ninajaye...Mormons do full immersion baptism.
No ninajaye, the definition of a Christian is someone who believes in the resurrection and the Trinity, which the Mormons do not. I grew up in Utah as a non-Mormon and was chastized for wearing a Christian cross around my neck. They look at the crucifiction as a crime and the cross is the smoking gun. Easter means nothing to them. You guys may all think "We the Corporations" is the radical here, but nothing this poster has said isn't true. In addition to not believing in the resurrection and the Trinity, Mormons believe that if they are good on this Earth that they will be rewarded with a world of their own where they can become their own gods. There is NOTHING CHRISTIAN about this. Don't believe it, look it up. They are a cult and if Mitt Romney is elected, prepare yourself to be inundated with the Mormon agenda.
Christianity is as much a cult as any other world religion. Time to put away all this superstitious nonsense. Nothing wrong with stockpiling foods and helping the poor, though, but it doesn't require the promise of rewards in a fantasy afterlife to be motivated to do so.
@TaeKat13, if you grew up as a "non-Mormon," I'm having a hard time seeing how you feel comfortable authoritatively instructing others on Mormon beliefs.
The reality is that Mormons DO believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, they prefer to focus on His life, not His death (which is why they don't display the cross in their places of worship).
They also believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
I'm having a hard time understanding how there is "nothing Christian" about this.
Please, if you're going to slander another group, do your research first. Perhaps not all Mormons have a perfect understanding of their own doctrines. I'd wager that many Christians of other groups have similar struggles with understanding mainstream Christianity as well. But that's no reason to take the very un-Christian approach of demonizing a group who is trying to do good.
TaeKat13, where the heck did you live??? The resurrection (aka Easter) is very central to Mormon beliefs, and they also believe in the Trinity, they just don't accept the definition given in the Nicene Creed. If you compare the Nicene Creed to the Mormons' Articles of Faith you'd see they're not even that different.
Your ignorance and prejudice are very un-Christian.
I lived in Massachusetts when he was governor, and his being a mormon was never brought up. Unlike our current "community organizer in chief", Mitt has an actual record of governing, and did no such things. Massachusetts is 99% liberal too.
Lies & deceptions by an incumbent president desperate to hold onto power. It's quite sad.
@TaeKatt
Being Mormon, I can tell you for a fact that we believe in the resurrection. We also believe that the crucifixion was critical to the atonement of Christ. We also believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three separate individuals which are one in purpose.
My wife's favorite holiday is Easter where we spend talking about what Christ's atonement means to us personally.
We do not believe that we will get our own planet. We believe that Christs atonement affects all mankind, but that you are also rewarded for your works and faith. Those who strived to draw closer to God and do what was right, whether Mormon or not, stand to inherit all that their Father in Heaven has. We believe this means that long after the earths work is complete that we can learn to become like him. This in no way will ever change His position as God. We believe He is and will always be the one and only God.
ninajaye
Well, Mormons believe in God and Jesus Christ, which is the definition of "Christian".. So
so do muslims, does that make them chrisitians now?
It's not a Christian religion. Do your homework.
LB,
Why isn't Mitt bragging about his "actual record of governing"?
Drom,
Is it true that Mormons believe that God and Mary are married and created Jesus the good ole fashioned way?
Oh boy, thanks for reminding me why I moved away from Utah. You guys can attack me all you want and accuse me of being the closed minded bigot. The truth is I grew up in Salt Lake City and Riverton. I went to Bingham High School. I speak from my experience growing up. I wore my cross to school once, displayed outside my shirt. Between one class I had probably fifty or more people accuse me of wearing a gun around my neck. I wore a peace sign to school one day. I was accused of wearing the sign of the devil and the fallen cross. To the poster that said that I have no right to speak on Mormons as a non-Mormon, so be it. But, I will stop speaking on you when Mormons stop treating non-Mormons like second-class citizens and spouting their holier-than-thou bs. Growing up in Utah, I had Mormon theology shoved in my face every day I lived there, so yeah, I'm a little more qualified to speak on it than you think I might be. "You" educated me. There is absolutely no seperation of church and state in Utah. Now, for those of you that speak to believing in the Trinity, the resurrection, and that you are still all under "one God" when you die, I understand that fairly recently the church softened its stance on a lot of these issues in response to people questioning whether Mormonism is indeed a Christian faith. Some of you may recognize the importance of the resurrection now that your elders have told you to do so, but to the poster that says it's more important to focus on His life, and not his death, Easter to any Christian is THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of Christ's life. The resurrection is the heart of Christianity. The fact is the church has a long history of changing and manipulating beliefs and doctrines to better fit its agenda (not taking multiple wives when the US government outlawed polygamy, etc., allowing the Bible into the church as a word of authority, telling its members to embrace the Trinity and resurrection) I'm not going to change the minds of those of you that are spouting hate back in my face, but to the rest of you, I don't care if you believe me, but do yourself a favor and do your research. Many posters here have begged you to simply do that, to come to your own conclusions.
You are (or were) probably a Yewt fan too.
The ressurection and atonement of Jesus Christ is the most fundamental doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. This Easter event is the foundation for the Mormon's belief in Christ. If you grew up in Salt Lake City, and never understood this, then you are truly unique. Easter is celebrated by the Mormons along with the rest of the Christian world as the hope we all have for exaltation and eternal life. Just because the Mormon's understand the trinity different than you, believing in 3 seperate and distinct personages, doesnt' make them non-christian. Either you never paid attention while you lived in Utah, or you are intentionally trying to mislead others.
Yeah, we're not Christians......it would make me laugh if it wasn't so sad. That's why the name of our church is "The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints". Yeah.....we don't believe in Christ. Sheesh!!! Uninformed people make themselves look dumb!
TaeKat13 - your hatred is showing - is that very Christian of you??? We do not hate the cross and Easter happens to be very impotant to us - guess you don't know everything, do you?!?! We don't wear a cross, not because we think it's crimminal, we just choose to focus on the resurrection.....oops guess that mean we DO believe in the resurection. You guys are TOO MUCH!!!
Wow i am speechless. I am a Mormon. We are a Christian church. We belive in God the Eternal Father, and in his son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. That is a trinaty! We believe that Jesus was resurrected from the dead and we do care about Easter! Go to the Easter Pageant at the Mesa Temple in Arizona it is fantastic.
@ akgirl-846983 from your question
The answer to that is no.
Both the Bible and the Book of Mormon clearly identify that Christ was conceived through the power of the Holy Ghost. As we believe the Holy Ghost to be a spirit this would be impossible in Mormon theology.
This notion came around from an apostles own personal publication which the presidency of the LDS church immediately shot down stating "[the Seer and other writings by Orsen Pratt] contain doctrines which we cannot sanction, and which we have felt impressed to disown, so that the Saints who now live, and who may live hereafter, may not be misled by our silence, or be left to misinterpret it."
This statement was published in the Deseret News August 23rd in 1865. A photocopy is archived on byu.edu.
I have no problem with the LDS doing charity work. That is a wonderful thing. A certain percentage of their money goes to charity work and the rest of it goes to where else? Politics, proselytizing people door to door, building temples, corporate investments, storing up non-perishable items in wharehouses and who knows what else.
People who give money to 'charities' like this should only receive a deduction for the percentage of the money that the organization actually allocates to charity. The same formula should be used for all non-profit charity organizations in a grand bargain deficit reduction deal. This way more money would go to the most productive charities.
We the corporations.
I'm no fan of religion but as humans we'd just replace it with something else to be zealous about if it were gone i.e. race, government, etc. Sure religion makes a nice scapegoat but Stalin was an atheist and he killed millions of his own people, many of the Communist Party in China are atheists and again atrocities. I'm not saying one is better than the other--people of both persuasions have don't great evil and great good . It's simply that humans will do evil (or as in this case good) to one another regardless and we will always look for a scapegoat or a cause but in the end deep down it is us as a race that is good (or evil) religion or no---it's just easier to have something to blame it all on.
Im not a Mormon but if as Taekat says:
"They look at the crucifiction as a crime and the cross is the smoking gun."
Then I would have to say that the Mormons pretty much have it right..and that is hardly an indication that they are not Christian. :)
Stalin may have become an atheist, but he went to a seminary to study to become a priest when he was a young man. But your comment that humans will do good or evil no matter what religion they follow (or don't follow) is spot on.
The “White Horse Prophecy” is a prediction made by Joseph Smith Jr. who was the founder of Mormon religion. He said that a time would come when the US Constitution would be hanging by a thread and a church elder from the Mormon Church will ride in on a metaphorical white horse and save it. [This will thereby transform the U.S. government into a Mormon-ruled theocracy.]
And, if evolution is real, can we not "evolve" to a higher power?
Evolution is not forward looking so no. And it is real. In the media there might be some question but scientists accept it as the truth.
What's pointed out in this article is great but I've read elsewhere the Mormon church owns a 330,000 acre cattle ranch, a 200,000 acre ranch, television and radio stations and hundreds of other businesses. I think if you're operating as a non profit using tax free money to buy land and businesses it gives them an unfair advantage. To use tax free money to build temples, charity work and missionary work is fine but they should pay taxes on money invested.
I'm not religious, and I don't go out of my way to try to bring religions down... as long as it isn't being used to hurt others, or strip them of their rights. That said, I'm glad to see a religion actually putting it money where it's mouth is. I realize that there are several Christian charities as well, but some use them as leverage to try and convert you, or keep the profits for themselves.
As for those screaming about prophecies and the like... how many times has the "End Of Times" been prophesied? Plenty of times. The great thing is how much room they leave into it, "prophecies" leave plenty of time, giving subtle hints, but not setting a time or date. If you want to see the same bait and switch method, watch one of those "Psychic" TV shows.
They ask very general questions that could apply to anyone to seem like they have intimate knowledge, in this case though it's just saying "It's coming!". That way they never have to account for the fact it'll never happen in our lifetimes, while leaving it open that people can scream I told you so should it ever actually happen.
Please note I'm not defending ANY political person. I'm just saying what's common knowledge. At least, I wish it was common knowledge. People tend to jab their fingers into their ears and go "LALALALALA", like a certain famous SNL Skit...
This is too good... I wasn't sure if you were for real or not but after looking at some of your other comments I understand that you weren't being sarcastic. I am honestly trying not to laugh too much here at work. Enjoy your "free ride" for which the rest of us pay.
I don't practice religeon but i help others who cares? we do
"Actions" do not a Christian make.
Joseph Smith took Christianity and TWISTED it to fit his own purposes. Mormonism is no more Christianity than Buddhism or Islam or Satanism.
It is a cult. Just because they give away food to the needy doesn't make them right with God.
What does? Words? Oh, wait.....
Helping those in need is a great thing! We all need to do more!
But if the religion/group you are following has strayed from the documented word from Jesus-
I know you not will be all you hear when your day comes.
As with Mormons- This movement was founded by Joseph Smith, Jr. beginning in the 1820s as a form of Christian primitivism.
Are you sure that you have not been.
In reality
following
Someone’s
I like this / feel good
Version/ interpretation
You need to make it right as "no excuses will be allowed"
JTomBailey,
I agree you need to be sure. This verse from the Book of Mormon shows us how we can decern good from evil.
Moroni 7:16
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.
All religions & domoninations were started by some real person IN THE NAME of some god(s) and created some variation of old stories to serve as their scripture.
@JTomBailey, which religeon did you convert from when you became your version of a Christian? Or did you happen to be born into this faith that you have followed your whole life without question? If you happened to be born into it, and are not willing to question your own faith, how can you judge others for not questioning the faith they were born into? What if you were born into a religion that worshipped a spaghetti monster...would you have converted to Christianity, or would you be post-humously converting people to Spaghetti-Monsterism?
@ hypocrisy1776 - R'amen.
I was born into a household with one atheist parent and one who was raised as a Catholic and believes in Christ but rejects Catholicism. My kids are being raised in my faith and I actively teach them to question and test it in a productive, supportive fashion. They are learning that most of the "failings" they're encountering are those of individual men. As for worship of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I believe the proper term is "Pastafarian" and I don't think they do baptisms for the dead. :-) Regarding that unusual practice of baptisms for the dead, just so everyone is clear, it's an ordinance by proxy where someone, usually a family member, is baptized in the dead person's name (no corpse-dunking, in case anyone were wondering) and the Mormon belief is that the deceased person's spirit decides whether to accept or reject that baptism-by-proxy. Agency (aka the right to make choices) is a big deal in the Mormon church.
If you born into Ramen, then obviously your views are twisted, unlike spaghetti which is much more straight ahead. ;)
I don't know what religion JtomBailey was before he became Mormon, but mormon.org does give you a background religion as a search item when looking at other peoples profiles and reasons why they became Mormon. There's a lot of many other people of different faiths who questioned the LDS religion and found something good here.
My favorite ones to read are the ones that converted while trying to convince others that Mormons were a cult.
I myself was born into the religion, but wasn't convinced of it. It wasn't until I did some real digging into the LDS religion that I began to believe in it. When I read all the negative things that people have said, I took the authors background and preconceptions into consideration. I then compared that against the actual source (meaning what the LDS church actually stated it believed). I traced sources clear back into the photographed archives on byu's website. I have looked into the background and have found most of the critics information to be inaccurate. I came out much stronger in my faith than when I started.
To assume that Mormons don't question their faith is a faulty notion. Many of those who are strong in their Mormon faith are that way because they have questioned and searched. The LDS church teaches that every member needs to know for themselves and to develop their own testimony of it's teachings.
If you are born into spaghetti, your views are straight, unlike being born into Ramen which is all full of twisted views that make a fatty mess of you.
There certainly are a lot of uneducated idiots posting here.. I am refering to the NON Mormon idiots making up all the fairy tales about this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am a Baptist in Dallas Texas and I denounce the Baptist Church's condemnation of Mormons and all the fairy tales. The Baptist re-wrote the Bible to fit their own hypocrisy so why are they condeming Mormons who still believe in the original King James version as it was written 2000 years ago. Yup, they got that dreaded Book of Mormon too and I have found that there is more evidence that it may be for real than not..
The King James Version was not written 2000 years ago. It was a translation project sponsored by King James of England and published in 1611. Believe it or not - original manuscripts of the Bible are not in English at all.
None of that stuff is going to you, you must be a paid up tithing Mormon to get near it, it is for the top brass after Romney destroys America!
Only worthy Mormons can enter a Mormon temple. Therefore frequently many friends and family members - even parents of the bride and groom - are excluded from witnessing wedding ceremonies, and must wait outside the temple, or in a waiting room at the entrance foyer which is not part of the sacred precincts.
Not Entirely True. Every time a new LDS temple is built, there is a pretty lengthy period of time (6 weeks or so) called an "open house" where anyone of any faith or walk of life is welcome to tour the temple with no charge. After the open house is over, the building is dedicated and used by members in good standing.
It strikes me that this is the way charity is supposed to work, not be a government run overpriced program subject to extreme levels of corruption and laziness. Government should get out of the welfare business, they don't do it well. It is my understanding that in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, much of the food provided in the mass feedings came from the Mormon stockpiles. Like all organizations, there are aspects that people agree with and that people disagree with, but taking care of people is one area where the Mormons do very well. Mormons are, to my understanding, Christian, but with some beliefs that are not in line with more traditional sects. But in my experience, they are not hurting anyone, so why not let them be, in accordance with the Constitution of the United States. Religious groups with a policy of hurting people do need to be dealt with, but instead, we protect and encourage them.
"Greg"
GREAT post and so true!!!
I agree with your post.
VERY well said, couldn't agree more!
Not true. People SHOULD NOT have to rely on religious organizations for charity.
This is how welfare worked before the govt took it over. Another nice sideaffect of this type of system is that once your neighbors realize you're in trouble, little job offers and other support have a habit of coming your way.
@Greg - 'It strikes me that this is the way charity is supposed to work, not be a government run overpriced program subject to extreme levels of corruption and laziness.' - Why are you assuming that the Mormon program is not overpriced and subjected to extreme levels of corruption and laziness? How much money does the Mormon leadership take? Take out all of the war spending, etc and just look at what the government actually uses for welfare distribution. Mormon and other food pantries will give food to anyone that walks in, the government is expected to determine that people actually have a need first, so factor out that cost. If the government just gave money to anyone that needed it, it would arguably cost less in overhead than these food pantries. And Mormons are expected to contribute to these as a matter of faith, just as Christians are expected to give money to their church...so even though it is 'voluntary' it really is strongly encouraged. Whereas, the government has no choice but to make the giving cumpolsory. Please when stating that churches are more 'efficient' than 'the evil big government' please compare apples to apples. This is not to disparage the great work religious charities do, but to merely point out that government based charity is better than most people give it credit for.
Hypocrisy1776,
Your assumption that church leaders take money out of welfare donations is ridiculous. While I'm sure there might be a corrupt individual here and there that may wrongfully take what doesn't belong to him, the church as a whole is very careful with donations. There is not a paid ministry in the LDS church. All callings in the church are volunteer and they don't receive any money for their work. The church does have a limited number of full-time employees these are few and far between, making a modest income and not related presiding in the church.
You obviously don't know anything about the church's welfare system. You state that "Mormon and other food pantries will give food to anyone that walks in". This couldn't be farther from the truth. There is a process that the church uses to help every individual with their needs. If they are in need of a job, the church has a well respected employment network to help them find a job. If they need clothing, they help provide that. Only after they meet with the Bishop (who is an unpaid volunteer) and their needs are assessed can they receive assistance.
Mormon's are asked to pay 10% of their income to tithing but this tithing is not where the welfare money is collected. They are also encouraged to pay generously into the welfare system. There is no set amount to pay. There is no punishment for not paying. Nobody knows the amount they pay besides the leaders that quietly handle the donations. It is completely voluntary. Sure it is encouraged. Is there anything wrong with encouraging people to help each other out?
Your comparison of churches and government have one big difference. The church uses donated money, distributes it through a volunteer network to people who need it along with a personalized and local plan for them to get back on their feet..
The government force-ably takes money from people, pays numerous amounts of people to distribute it to anyone who can fill out paperwork saying that they are poor and many people who can't.
Goes along with my philosophy that whatever you need done, government is the worst possible way to do it. Necessary for some things, but should only be a last resort.
And let's not forget, government takes our tax dollars to pay for that welfare, unlike the Morman church that asks their members to contribute. I'm not a religious man, but I don't see what creates a need in some commenting here to disparage them for their charitable work. You act like it's your money they are using. I think you are confusing them with our government.
"one quarter of all U.S. Mormon households earn $30,000 a year or less according to Pew Research Center."
WHERE do these "numbers" (lies) come from?
I was very young, but remember back in the 60's when they tried to deomnize JFK as an evil Catholic!
BTW....NEVER a word said about creepy Harry Reid being a Mormon!!!!
Why would those numbers be a lie? Do you have any proof that those numbers are a lie? No, you don't.
The reason that Mormons all seem to be doing okay, even when they are not earning much money, is because they help each other out. Just as shown in this story. It's not a mystery or a conspiracy.
'... one quarter of all U.S. Mormon households earn $30,000 a year or less according to Pew Research Center. ..."
pewresearch.org/
You +1'd this publicly. Undo
A nonpartisan fact tank that provides information on the issues, attitudes and trends shaping America and the world through public opinion polling, social ...
@ap - yes, the reason that mormons do so well is their particular sect practices socialism, like all good Republicans. Republican farmers get subsides, retired republicans get Medicare, Soldier republicans get Tricare, Republican churches get to enjoy roads, police, fire dept, a standing army, without paying ANY TAXES to support these 'free' services. Remember, Republicans don't hate Socialism, they just don't want it to go to non-Republicans....or actually pay for it.
Another worshipper of government as God...just like the president.
It seems you don't know what socialism truly is. The fact that everything in the mormon church is voluntary makes this statement beyond credulity.
Agree ap!
The food is for other Mormon's that can prove that they need the assistance. My issue is that it isn't for other people, people of other faith's are not allowed to receive assistance. In the case of a natural disaster, the church will send some aid. Catholic Charities offers aid to all, no matter their religion.
Yes, Mormonism (or Latter Day Saints (as they prefer to be called) believe that they will evolve into being a God. They also believe in a Mother and Father God and do not believe in immaculate conception. None of these things bother me. What bothers me is that women are treated as second class citizens. As a whole, Mormon women are the most depressed group of people I have ever met. Per capita, Utah women use more antidepressants and have a higher rate of mental illness than any other state. There is a reason for this, they are treated as less than men. Their whole entrance into heaven is based on knowing the secret word after they have been sealed to their husband's in the temple. Now that is weird.
Direct cut and paste from the article:
The storehouse, along with 110 similar facilities spread across the country, is part of the Mormon effort to help those in need, Mormon and non-Mormon alike.
Did you even read before posting?
No, I have attended LDS churches for many years and know of what I speak. They do not give to Nonmormons unless there is a natural disaster. Just because the article states it doesn't mean it is true.
Do Mormon women lead in the Church?
Yes. All women are daughters of a loving Heavenly Father. Women and men are equal in the sight of God. The Bible says, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28). In the family, a wife and a husband form an equal partnership in leading and raising a family.
From the beginning of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints women have played an integral role in the work of the Church. While worthy men hold the priesthood, worthy women serve as leaders, counselors, missionaries, teachers, and in many other responsibilities— they routinely preach from the pulpit and lead congregational prayers in worship services. They serve both in the Church and in their local communities and contribute to the world as leaders in a variety of professions. Their vital and unique contribution to raising children is considered an important responsibility and a special privilege of equal importance to priesthood responsibilities.
I have direct experience that they do. The weakness is that the bishop has complete power and has to be convince that you're not trying to game their system.
Sounds like you have issues with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Your remarks cover a range of topics. Do you have nothing good to say about anything they do?
No, not much. Some of the people are great and some aren't but the institution itself is a nightmare. There is not a woman Bishop or priesthood holder. Or a woman on the Quorum of Twelve. They only recently allowed women to even have the right to control their own reproductive rights. They don't allow gay members.
Mymom-
Unfortunately you are wrong. I am a Mormon and I personally have helped many non-Mormons obtain help from the Bishop's Warehouse. Just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean it doesn't happen. As with every case of helping out individual families, it is not broadcast who is getting help and who is not. You mentioned Catholic charities but failed to mention the work the LDS charities and Catholic charities do together. On many occasions, LDS charities donates straight to Catholic charities when the Catholic charities are in a better position to distribute it.
I find it funny how well written articles like this one, that really have nothing to do with religious doctrine attract comments of doctrinal nature. So what if LDS people believe in eternal progression. This article is about their welfare system. Bringing up doctrines that you disagree with that have nothing to do with the topic seems like a way to get away from the subject at hand.
You may feel that women are 2nd class citizens but I've been involved in the church my whole life and have never seen any case where women weren't treated with the utmost respect. They are some of the happiest and friendly people out there. The reason your argument fails is that most people who know a few Mormon families see that happiness on the face of their Mormon neighbors. I'm not saying that all Mormon's are great and happy people. There's always exceptions. It sounds like you went to church for years and you aren't happy, demonstrating the point.
I have volunteered at one of the Church storehouses where they give away the food and can confirm that many who use it are NOT church members. They do however, need to meet with the local church leader in order to get the form that needs to be filled out indicating what food, household products and clothing they want - no questions asked!
People of other faiths are allowed to receive assistance. The article says so, and the show on Thursday will repeat it. You must visit with a Bishop of the Mormon church to receive the aid. The church helps everyone out. Perhaps you missed the help that the church gave the victims of hurricane Katrina? Or the assistance the church gives everyone in all countries where the church is allowed? Not to mention how the church often works with the AMerican Red Cross and other entities like Catholic Charities to get the job done.
not true, not true, not true. the mormons, like the witnesses help everyone.
I have served on a Mormon bishopric for many years and can guarantee you that we give to non-members. We just don't announce it over the pulpit.
The Bishop does not have complete power. Any decision that affects the congregation has to be made by three people unanimously (the bishop and his counselors). Some of the more serious decisions require more people.
Any man who attempts to say that his priesthood gives him any type of special right over his spouse is in serious trouble. Our scriptures (D&C) even state that this is a serious transgression. The most important unit in the church is the family. Husband and wife are supposed to come to decisions together. The keys of the priesthood are always held by one person in the group. In the case of the church as a whole, it is the president. In the case of the congregation, it is the bishop. In the case of the family, it is the husband. But this does not make them better than any of the others. The priesthood can only be used to serve the family, congregation, or church. For example, I cannot give myself a blessing. I can only give others a blessing, etc. The man who thinks that within the LDS church is in for a serious smack down on the other side.
Mymom, then you must be picking only the few "depressed women" out there. I have so many friends who are Mormon and are women and they are some of the happiest, most caring people I know. You obviously have a chip on your shoulder about Mormons, which is unfortunate. Sure there are a few bad apples, but which church doesn't? Honestly? Which church doesn't have members who could use a little more Christ-like behavior? As a whole, Mormons provide so much to a community, but they don't broadcast it to take the credit. Take a chill pill and get off your soapbox of un-Christianlike bashing.
Only white man make all the decision and make the rules, no woman or any other ethnick
world10- You are incorrect. In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there are women heading up the largest and oldest women's organization in the world, the Relief Society.There are many, many, many leaders (both men and women) from every ethnic origin you can think of. The church has over 14 million members around the world. Less than half live in the United States. And for those living in the United States, of COURSE there are leaders of ethnic origin.
This Mormon charity giving to other groups is just to rotate the stock and keep the machine in order.
If there ever is a real calamity of vast proportions, you can be sure that these stockpiles will for there for the Mormons themselves and others will be turned away as it being God's will as payback for not converting earlier and contributing to the Latter Day Saints enterprise.
And YOUR stockpile is for whom?
Mormons are also required to keep a year's stockpile of their own too. On top of this storehouse system which IS for people who cant create their own stockpile. Survival food and food preservation are big business for mormons.
And what is wrong with that? Do you have a problem with the thought of:
Prepare for emergencies to help support your family when needed.
When your family is prepared, help others with your excess.
I don't see any problem with that thinking at all. On a plane when the oxygen masks fall, are you not supposed to put yours on first before helping others?
Mike - are you saying that there has never yet been a "real" calamity yet, and the millions of times that the Mormons gave to the needy (regardless of their relationship to the church) was just to unload the expired inventory and get rid of the wrinkled currency? Sounds pretty cynical....
I am curious - how much do you currently donate to the needy? How well prepared are you to help your neighbors if their was a disaster?
I donate 10% and another $1000 for the needy each year. I also have more than a years supply of long-term food storage to help not only my family, but friends and neighbors too. I would encourage you to do the same so you can cover anyone I might miss.
I suspect you are projecting your own negative thoughts onto others you do not know.
Wrong again, Mike.
The Mormon Church operates farms and fruit orchards. Some of the foods are processed in Church owned canneries and packing houses. Members are asked (volunteers) to help care for, pick, and process the foods. Anyone can buy from the Orchards at greatly discounted prices, Example: Apples for 13 cents a pound. Members can pack foods, meat, produce, at the canneries for the purchase of the cans. Anything that the canneries produce can be purchased by members or anyone who wishes to help process it. Much of the overstock is donated to food banks across the country. I have personally seen Church farm Raisins in non-affiliated charities and non-profits. At one time, the LDS Church was the largest contributor to the Catholic Relief Fund.
Mormon's don't see Mormons and non-Mormons they only see children of God, so everything on earth is for the children of God not just Mormons. That's why the charity extends to everyone.
but only the special children of God get to wear the magic underwear.
double post
As I have lived all over this country, I have seen a great deal of "Mormon Bashing". I would say 99% of those people have absolutely no clue on who or what are the Mormons. Before you bash them find out who they are. I have known many, many Mormons throughout my life and I would say that 99% of them are honest, hard working folks whom I would trust with my most important valuables. Do they prepare for the worse? Absolutely but then again shouldn't we all?
So untrue. At the churches I have personally known quite a few of the wealthy men, including bishops, involved in white collar crime. There is a seedy underbelly involved in the Church. Just like any other church. I would say 70% of the people are great but not 99%.
My issue is only with the way they treat women and that they believe themselves to be better than everyone else. They sit there and say in Church how they are better than all the other religions and how ridiculously stupid other religions are. It is just ridiculous considering the fanciful belief that Joseph Smith interpreted some golden plates he found in the ground with his magic eyeglasses and stone. Then the plates magically disappeared without anyone else seeing them.
So which religion DOES treat women equally?
More of the protestant persuasions that allow women to be pastors and have an equal say. Those that don't believe that a woman's salvation is dependent upon a man.
As a matter of fact, there are testimonies of 11 other people that saw the plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated. This can be found in the front of the Book or Mormon.
Everything I've seen with regard to the Mormons' stance regarding women is that they should be honored and respected. How is that poor treatment?
As for "bashing" other religions, there are individuals in every faith that do that. I'm not making an excuse, I'm saying that people are human and Mormons are no exception. There are invariably a few rotten apples who turn it into a "holier-than-thou" thing, but I see a much greater propensity for respect and tolerance of others' spritual beliefs in the Mormon church than I've seen in any other church, and the leadership does not propagate or sanction "bashing" of other religions, unlike a lot of other so-called "Christian" faiths -- usually some stripe of Protestant evangelism -- that I've seen bash them like it was doctrine.
That said, I don't know who or what you've been subjected to, but it's apparent that you were insulted and offended by someone. My hope is that you judge that on an individual basis and keep an open, tolerant mind toward others, since most of the folks that fall into the group you're railing against here seem to be pretty decent, upstanding people.
Mymom, perhaps you are not aware that whenever the church is informed of impropriety, the church steps in and takes care of it. Also, your comments about women and how the church talks about how much better they are is a bald faced lie. Do not let your own personal insecurities keep you from seeing what is actually true. As a mormon woman and wife I find nothing wrong with how I am treated. I have equal say in my household, I am not told what to do and I can make all my choices by myself. I do have agency to choose. And I have never in my life and I have lived in many places and gone to many wards in this church, I have never in my life heard anything ever taught or spoken of in church that portrays the church and its members as being better than any other religion or group of people.
I am Mormon and I have never treated or observed other Mormons treating people outside the faith with anything other then respect.
I don't waste me time on trying to clear people's misconceptions up. I have learned that people can be quite hardwired to stick to the things they think are true.
If people want to think that Mormons are bad, so be it. When it is time to match word with deed the outcome will speak for it's self.
QE137 I too am a life long Morman, having grown up in Utah and having many ancecters who were General Authorities. 42 years ago, I fell in love with a non-Morman and I wouldn't trade him for anyone else. At this time, I still believe very much in church doctrine, but do not attend church. I have a sister-in-law who is a very active member along with my brother and their children. She ignores us most of the time we happen to be around her, unless she wants something. Growing up while I was in high school, my family lived in a new sub-division. There were three families that were non-members. One day, I asked my mom a simple question...Why don't we associate with them. Without a moments hesitation she said "Because they aren't members of the church..I was totally in shock, cause my mother was a woman who always put the church before her husband & family. My father was a convert, and at times he was very active and then he would slide into in-activity. At those times would my mother soften her heart toward his inactivity NO WAY! Also I am one of 7 children, the youngest three are all very very active in the church, while the rest of us are not. When my mother was alive, she had pictures of her "good Morman grandchildren in the living room for all of the world to see. Where were the rest of her grandchildren's pictures???Hidden away upstairs in her bedroom. Also my younger sister who has 8 children (and there was never a letter written to me that didn't praised those eight kids, and it was like my two kids weren't worth a hill of beans) and lived in the Morman stronghold of Rexburg, Idaho. She could spend weeks visiting them. Would she come a short distance to my house(in Spokane, WA) maybe for 3 days if I was lucky! So, yes, I have felt it personally, so I DO BELIEVE VERY MUCH that active members treat non-members or inactive members in a very different way.
Charity is good. The Mormons helping all people in need makes it a noble undertaking.
We used to give to United Way through payroll deductions but now give directly to charities that we think will do the most good for the dollars spent. Our current favourite is The Heifer Project. They give farm animals to needy families around the world. We gave a family a milk goat-- actually, we just wrote the check.
In the Mormon faith, it is the duty of good members to prepare for years of famine. Thus, the presence of LDS canneries and other storehouses. The items are not sold for profit, but rather, to make sure people are taken care of. You don't need to be Mormon to utilize the LDS canneries, either. In the years of feast, prepare for famine.
It makes sense that the Mormons believe in self-reliance, but also community when one is in need. It's a good message that should spread through the rest of the United States, really.
Hear Ye! Hear Ye!
You know, there are some very good posts on both sides of the fence here. Let's take religion out of the equation and what do we have? We have compassion and generosity toward human beings that have fallen on hard times or are simply less fortunate. This is a good thing! Let's focus on that and cast the religious beliefs aside.
Personally I have no need for a religion or secular belief. I do have a need for the feeling I get when I donate to a cause that benefits others. Example: I raise a beef each year and can only consume half (or there about). I donate the other half to various churches who have families in need (food banks don't take frozen meat products in my area any more). I also have a few peach, pear, cherry trees and apple trees of which I can fruit each year. Again I notify several area churches and family's to come and pick what I am unable to use. I see no need to waste it, and I can't use it all.
At any given time I have a years supply of food and necessities. It's no different. I happen to live on 5 acres and planted a few fruit trees years ago. I do a garden also...same thing applies. No waste...help others. With me, I just have no need for the religious propaganda (my opinion, no offence intended). Take what you need...share what you don't need. Churches can behave how they feel is right...that's how I choose to do it.
Mormon - Survivalist Nation to Us without Them. While working, planning and directing the uniformed, misinformed and straight forward ignorant of the USA toward Armageddon's Apocalypse of Hell.
The world has been there and done that before, a review of Civil Defense Films, presented in high schools, document the potential "dangers", but oddly, nothing of the consequences to seen between the survivors of the haves and have not's, the aftermath of their plans and far worse that we are lead to imagine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shelter_(The_Twilight_Zone)
The Shelter (The Twilight Zone), September 29, 1961, "The Shelter" is an episode of the American television anthology series The Twilight Zone.
It is a typical evening in a typical suburban community. At the residence of physician Bill Stockton, he enjoys a birthday party being thrown for him by his wife Grace and their son Paul. Also at the party are Jerry Harlowe, Bill's brother-in-law; Frank Henderson and Marty Weiss, Bill and Jerry's former roommates; and the wives and children of Jerry, Frank and Marty. Bill is well-known and liked by this gathering; he attended the State University with Marty, Frank and Jerry. Moreover, Bill has repeatedly administered to the health and well being of each one of said guests, and/or delivered their children. Everyone is especially friendly and jovial, even when mention is made of Bill's late-night work on a fallout shelter which he has built in his basement. Suddenly, a Civil Defense (CONELRAD) announcement overheard by young Paul, is made that unidentified objects have been detected heading for the United States. In these times, everybody knows what that means: nuclear attack.
As panic ensues, the doctor locks himself and his family into his shelter. The same gathering of friends becomes hysterical and now wants to occupy the shelter. All of the previous cordiality is now replaced with soaring desperation; pent-up hostility, searing racism and other suppressed emotions boil to the surface. Stockton offers his basement to the guests, but the shelter itself has sufficient air, provisions and space for only three people (the Stocktons themselves). The once-friendly neighbors don't accept this; they break down the shelter door with an improvised battering ram. Just then, a final Civil Defense broadcast announces that the objects have been identified as harmless satellites and that no danger is present. The neighbors apologize for their behavior; yet Stockton wonders if they have not destroyed each other - and themselves - without a bomb.
How many people on Gov. welfare would stay on it if they were expected to do something for it. The Mormon churce expects some form of service in exchange. (Get food for your family, mow the grass at one of the churches). Not a bad concept.
Also, If you have enough money to support your $300.00 a month smoking or drinking habit, Quit, and you have money to feed your kids. Do what you can for yourself before asking others.
You can't be a member if you drink or smoke. They require you to do things for the Church whether you receive Church welfare or not.
Mymom, as a former bishop in the Church, let me tell you that over and over again, I have said to people that smoke or drink that the sweetest smell that I could smell in the church building is that of lingering cigarette smoke on someone. I don't care about that and neither does God. Church of any kind is for the sinner, not for the perfect.
No person is required to serve. There are many opportunities to serve. However, no one is denied the blessings of the gospel by not taking a church position or serving.
They are not allowed to go to temple if they drink of smoke, and can't be a member in good standing. I don't drink or smoke, so that is not really an issue to me. You sound very nice, as many members are. If members don't accept posts, they are shunned. There is a lot of pressure within the Church to give money and time. This is not an issue to me as I no longer attend. It is something friends that do attend complain of, quite a bit. Working long hours and then being pushed to give more and more time to the Church wears on them. Many express to me that they would love to be Jack mormons themselves.
Anyone mymom, can do like you and become a jack mormon, but I might suggest, that a jack mormon is someone who does not have a testimony. Sure, the church asks you to serve, but you are NOT REQUIRED TO SERVE and you are not shunned by making that decision. Something obviously has happened in your life that has created this feeling you have, but to be true, the church does not pretend to be full of perfect people, as you are well aware, if we were perfect, we would not be living on this planet. The church is full of imperfect people doing the best they can. It's OK if they fail occasionally. As a former mormon you ought to know that that is what the atonement is all about. And that every Sunday during the Sacrament we can repent of those things that we have failed at and start anew.
Mymom - I've declined callings multiple times and haven't been shunned. I don't know about you, but I go to church for myself, not others, and have never let another person's opinion ('Mormon' or otherwise) get between me and the Savior (that would be Jesus Christ). Ever stop to think about why there is so much "Pressure"? Christ is the perfect example of charity and service.. if we're supposed to be trying to be like him, then obviously opportunities to serve will be presented. Just because you're disaffected, doesn't make the organization bad.
It's interesting,. you are worried about smoking and drinking? You are commanded as a Christian to live a righteous life, and you can't even do something simple like living a healthy lifestyle. And you expect to covenant with God?
Having served as a Bishop for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I can affirm that in no way, did I ever ask anyone to join the Church or was that ever a requirement for receiving assistance. The welfare program of the Church is open to all. Yes, there is a request that they serve others. That service is based upon the individual's ability to serve and the needs that are apparent. I have worked with numerous churches in this effort.
Living in Mississippi, I can tell you that the need is great and that the opportunities to serve one another are equally great. I am proud of the program. It gives people hope. Bishops are encouraged to seek out those in need. The program is not meant to be one that people must come to the bishop to receive assistance. Bishops actively are seeking to assist those in need. I can't tell you the number of times over the 5 years that I served as bishop that I helped complete strangers as part of my calling as a bishop. That is what Christ did. While I don't even dare to put my service or any other bishops' service on that plane, we do so out of love for all mankind. We don't differentiate between Christian or non-Christian. Rather, the love of God reaches across all.
To those that are skeptical, I encourage you to visit one of the many bishop's storehouses and see for yourself. I have served in them right along with many other faiths. I know of the power of giving as I have been on both ends of that service. Don't rely on what other people tell you. Find out for yourself.
Finally, to all of the naysayers, I plead with you to set aside prejudice and pick up a plow. Sink deep in your efforts to serve others. It doesn't matter whether you believe in God or not. Service to others does not require a certain set of theistic belief patterns. Rather, it takes an open heart and a willingness to look upon another person and see their value, regardless of their status in life. I guarantee you that indeed, you will find more satisfaction in building up others than could ever be found tearing down others. Take the very energy needed to tear down others and put it into serving others. The rewards far outweigh the effort you will put in.
So how many nonmembers did you serve that you weren't trying to convert?
The only other Church charity I can compare the LDS charity to is the Catholic Charities (I have never been a Catholic) and they give to those in need with no strings attached. While I dislike their hierarchy as much as that of the LDS Church, at least they do not give 99% of their charity to Catholics and only give to those they are trying to convert. It is a true Christian charity that way.
In the 5 years that I served as bishop of my local congregation, the number was close to 100 that directly came to me seeking assistance. Not once did I ask them to join the church or even listen to Mormon missionaries.
However, during Hurricanes Katrina, Rita, and Gustav, I served several thousand local residents in Mississippi and Louisiana with not one request for payment or conversion. There is no requirement for conversion whatsoever. The church sent teams of men and women to seek out the needy, those in distress, and those needing work performed. I personally spent several weeks serving those who needed it. I am fortunate that my employment allows me to serve in such a manner.
During that time, we worked with Catholic Charities, Baptist churches, Methodist churches, and numerous other faiths. It was and continues to be one of the best times of my life. It was amazing to see others lay aside differences to serve those in need.
I did state that they help others in a natural disaster. You sound like a nice man and I wish you well.
Mymom, you obviously have a chip on your shoulder. Your comments are way out of line and you have often misspoken about the church. You are surrounding your misinformed statements by statements of feelings of good will to those who may be nice in the church, but the truth is, that the church believes in helping everyone and that while it is the church's first and formost job to bring people to Christ, it never makes coming to Christ a requirement. I do wish you would stop talking as if it does.
Well I guess you serving as a Bishop in the Mormon Church makes you an objective observer? Answer me this question. How do you justify Jospeh Smith having thirty wives, a number of whom were already the wives of chruch members? And how do you justify Smith having a fourteen year old girl as a wife?
What does that have to do with this discussion about Church Welfare Assistance? There are many other forum for discussing church history - try I have seen lots of detailed information to answer your questions.
A Bishop is the best source for how the church distributes help to the needy because he is the control point and the details are kept private out of respect for those in need. If you want to act as an objective observer, then visit your local "Bishop's Storehouse" and see for yourself.
My Bishop has asked me to help him with families that have enough income, but are unable to make ends meet. I try and help them with their finances and career planning. It is common for people to want handouts, while wasting money on luxuries. Easy credit enslaves those with no spending control. Consumerism in the USA is as much an addiction as alcohol, tobacco or drugs. It is a difficult problem to solve, and I am glad that I am not a Bishop, I am not sure I have the heart for it. Following Christ's example is a challenge for me personally.
Since you believe that Monson is God's prophet, wouldn't Mitt be influenced by this prophet if he were elected President?
If the American people wanted one thing, but prophet Monson told Mitt that God had something else in mind, who would Mitt, as a devout man, listen to?
And we have reason to believe that would/could happen.....why exactly?
Have your read their Articles of Faith? One of them speaks to their citizenship in their respective countries...something about obeying, honoring and sustaining the law and their government officials.
You know, Jamie, that last comment is one that was used almost verbatim against President Kennedy when he was running for President. What if the Pope said something contrary to what the needs of the US were?What would the president DO??? Everything old is new again.......
@wswalcot - As to your question about the Prophet Joseph Smith, taking a 14 year old wife, take into consideration that this was the 1800's. Concepts of what is acceptable today and what was acceptable then, are two very different then what is accepted today. For example, at the time of Joseph Smith, it would have been completely inappropriate for an interracial marriage, which today, doesn't even raise an eyebrow. It was also unheard of, for someone of wealth and status to marry someone out side their "social class", and again today, rarely notes mentioning.
In my opinion it is unfair to judge the actions of someone in the 1800's based on today's standards of behavior, ad what today is considered acceptable. And, just for your information, I do believe that even today, in New Hampshire and Texas, with parental consent women can marry at the age of 13.
(family.findlaw.com/marriage/state-by-state-marriage-age-of-consent-laws.html)
I am a republican who will vote for Obama. Not because I agree with him, but because I will do everything in my power (vote) to prevent the Mormon Church from obtaining the most powerful position in the world.
Giving them that kind of power would mark the beginning of the End of Days.
Isn't that a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face?
I know from personal experience that the church helps non members & members alike. I started out as a non member needing help, I'm now a member giving it! This is how it was meant to be. As a woman I'm very happy & do not feel anything but blessed for finding the church.
That's right. Give the kid some candy to entice him/her and then convert him/her. I understand. You became a Mormon because you saw it as a vehicle for accpetance.
That is so far from the truth! I received help 5 years before I became a member ! I have researched lots of religions & found this one to be the one for me! The love I feel for My Heavenly Father is the only acceptance I need ! I do love helping other people both in my church & those of other faiths!!
As a long-time member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I am deeply impressed with its inspired welfare program. I have seen it in operation close up. I have worked in Bishop's Storehouses, have canned fruits and vegetables for the needy there, have worked in the orchards and on the ranches, all as a volunteer with many others, grateful to be a part of such a wonderfully comprehensive system of love, directed by the Lord Jesus Christ. We love our brothers and sisters, both members of the Church and non-members, anywhere in the world. We will help anyone to the limits of our capacity, because we love the Lord Jesus Christ and are trying to be true followers of Him, whom we hold to be the Savior of all mankind. Thank you to NBC for shining a fair light upon this one aspect of the Kingdom of God. We invite everyone to come and see what the Lord is doing among us. Come to our services. Talk with us personally and learn for yourselves what we truly believe and are doing.
Which Kingdom are you talking about? The one where you will be a god over your own world? Isn't that the belief of the Mormon?
You can believe what you want to believe. If you bellieve in tooth fairies, a war as described by Jospeh Smith in America where over a million were killed (even though there is no archeological record of it ever happening) or that there was a lost tribe of Israel that came to America (although it has been proven through genetic research that only Native American Indians were here and they arrived through the Bering Straight) or you can believe in a person/angel named Moroni and that Joseph Smith could actually predict the future by looking at stones in a hat. Fine with me.
But why should I respect the concepts of your silly religion? Thank God Mormon history is less than 180 years old so we have documentation of the actual record.
@mymom-234:
A lot of bitter, completely inaccurate, purposefully deceitful rants from you. Very safe to assume you are on "ex-Mormon" who felt offended or wronged in some manner, disassociated yourself from the LDS church, and are posing as someone not affiliated with the church, but yet you have more detail "knowledge" of "purported happenings" in the church that no one not affiliated with the church could even know enough about to twist the truth.
So true are the words uttered years ago that those that become disenfranchised with the LDS church may be able to "leave" the LDS church as far as their participation goes, but are never able to fully "leave alone" the LDS church. Obviously, you can't. You seem to feel it is your mission to twist doctrine and practices to deceive others. Remember Gamaliel from Acts in the New Testament? Remember when he stood up and told the council to refrain from doing evil to Christ's apostles, Peter and John? "Let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it". My advice to "MyMom 234" would be to let it go! If the LDS church is full of lies, deception and hurt, then let it go, for it will eventually self-destruct. But if it be the work of God, then mymom 234's bitter rants are in vain.....
Have a nice day!
Nice, threaten me with doctrine for sharing Church "secrets". I am not bitter but I have no illusions about the LDS Church. Members try to put out information to paint the Church in a certain light. There are good people in the Church, the ex-Bishop on here sounds like one.
I spend very little time even thinking about the Church. I am lucky and went there as an adult, so I didn't lose my whole family when I left. Like some of my other friends. Just happen to be home with a sick child today and had the time to post. You will rarely see me post on this subject or any other.
Threaten you with doctrine? Where's the threat, and where's the doctrine? Powerful example to all posters on this thread of how easily you can distort things.....
It's a scripture from the Bible, not doctrine.....and no threat to you, either explicitly or implied!
You haven't revealed any "secrets". You have simply ranted about your dislikes. Big deal, there are many things you dislike. Your experience has been negative. Okay, we get that. But your rantings will do nothing to distort the work of God. If it is not the work of God, it will derail on its own. That was the point to my post.
But I guess your rants are good therapy for your cantankerous attitude. I hope you find peace in your life, regardless of religion affiliation or no affiliation. But I highly doubt your useless rants here will bring you the peace you seem to be looking for....
Yes, anyone that disagrees with you is ranting. You, however, are only sticking up for your ideals. You never rant.
My peace came a long time ago, when I left childish beliefs behind. Wish the same peace for you!
Mymom, my peace came when I joined the church. It's OK for you to feel like you feel and to believe what you believe as long as when you tell other people about the church that you stick to the facts and not your perceived facts which in many cases are flat out wrong.
Remember Jesus at the Garden of Gethsemene and whne the Roman soldiers came to arrest him, Peter grabbed a sword and cut off th eear of the centurion, and Jesus scolded Peter and he ran away. Jesu allowed himself to be arrested......, unlike Joseph Smith who after drinking some wine to improve his spirits took a pistol that was smuggled into the jail in Nauvoo illinois in 1844 and shot two people and wonded a third, then as he was ready to jump out the second floor window, yelled out a Masonic plea for help and was shot and died.
Very un-Jesus like don't you think?
That is an outright fabrication. He had no pistol, he drank no wine (Mormons don't drink. Honestly, everyone knows that....), he killed no one. Joseph Smith was flat out murdered. Whoever told you that was either a blatant liar or was misled by someone who was.
Gneisenau, Wikipedia has an interesting and fair article on this topic with many footnotes < There are conflicting accounts, so people are free to believe what they choose.
Joseph Smith and 3 others were in the Carthage jail when they were attacked by a large mob. Joseph Smith did have a small pistol, but used it in self defense after they were attacked and his brother was shot in the face and killed. Joseph fired 3 shots and wounded three of the attackers before he himself was shot and killed. None of the attacker were killed, but their wounds incriminated them in the murder and after being indicted, they fled. Mormons drank wine in the early days of the church, so while unlikely, it is not impossible. (I don't see that it is relevant).
I do agree that none of our church leaders compare to Jesus, but this is true of any/everyone, so I don't see that it is relevant.
Joseph Smith was a Mason (a respected fraternity at the time) and there were Masons in the mob, so it is possible that he plead for their obligated defense.
Again, with so many hostile witnesses and conflicting accounts of the crime, it is hard to be sure exactly what happened. But something are known for sure. Joseph Smith was killed by a mob after surrendering and in the protective custody of the Carthage Constable.
@ Joel - I will accept your explanation. Thank you for the info.
@ Walcott - I appologize since it seems there is conflicting information out there. I had not heard that Smith had a gun before.
ok, mymom234, i see now from other posts that you mention you were at one time a member of an LDS congregation. so i guess you're not posing as a non-member of the LDS church on this thread. However, my previous comments still stand: rather than post lies, hate and deception as if they were truths, leave it alone, and if you are right, the church will self-destruct in due time. You're not "saving" anyone by declaring your version of the truth. Your simply making yourself look vulnerable, bitter and out to avenge whatever wrong or offense you have previously endured. The gospel of Jesus Christ is true, but his followers have never pretended to be perfect, but only have attempted to become perfect through Him. Members of the LDS church at any given time can lie, cheat, manipulate, steal, commit adultery or any other injustice you may want to accuse them of. So do members and citizens of any other congregation, group, ethnicity or nation for that matter! But actions of members of the LDS church do not determine the truthfulness of Christ's gospel - His gospel is true, and when followed can make bad men/women good and good men/women better.
Best wishes....
As I stated myself, seems about 70% of the people are good people. That is actually a pretty high number. It is the Church itself that I have issue with, not the people. You make my point it is not "His" gospel. There are many religions and this is not "the" religion. It is not the fullness of the gospel, just one interpretation.
I didn't define in my post that the LDS religion is THE religion, nor is it the only church with the fullness of His gospel. This forum is not intended for me to condemn other religions or interpretations of His gospel. You, however, seem to think that it is. But I know enough about the LDS church to know that what you are spreading is deceitful. You may not like their stance on things, but why does dislike have to take the form of lies and deceit?
People are doing good deeds and some people always find a way to connect this to Romney and say bad things about everyone. They are helping others! Can't you just take it as that?
It's great that the Mormons are feeding people...but they did once own American Express, and they might have some responsibility in the credit company problems we've had.
More to my point: The Atheists have given more to humanity than all the religions combined for all history.
The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is doiing the REAL WORK of charity and world progress.
The Atheists will, indeed save the world once again...because a gay man, Alan Turing, already saved the world once by stopping Hitler.
Yes, the Gates Foundation does fabulous work!
The Gates Foundation contributes only to those activities that will sell software in the future. Not a dime for food or housing.
uhm... @GayAtheistMarine. "The Atheists have given more to humanity than all the religions compined for all history".
Either you are a troll or you are missing some fries in your happy meal.
1. Statistical inaccuracy. Please reference source material. Your brain does not count as a reliable source of information.
2. Spelling fail. There is a spell check on this. Try using it.
3. Reference to Bill and Melinda Gates foundation as support for your claim = complete contradiction. You do know that Melinda Gates is Roman Catholic, right???
Ralph. Ha-ha! That was funny. Not true but clever. Love a wicked sense of humor.
Are you serious about that American Express thing? Where does this stuff come from?
and the marines!! don't forget to include that part of your username trifecta!
Marine - AmEx is a publicly traded company, and is owned by the stock holders. If you have any mutual funds, then you may own AmEx too. I can't find the date when it went public, but I see stock history for APX going back to at least 1978, so I think it is a stretch to blame the Mormon church for the recession without further evidence.
ps: It would help if you confirmed rumors before posting them if you don't want to give Atheists a bad reputation for being gullible. ;-)
Umm... Ralph, obviously you have not heard of the Gate's Foundation, and their work to insure that every child can receive childhood immunizations, particularly in those countries that don't have the medical network to provide immunizations?
NBC and the Democrats are running out of ways to attack Romney personally so now the are going after LDS. I am surprised they waited this long. To think at one time I had a fair opinion of Brian Williams. He has sold out and is in the gutter with the Obama campaign.
Let me remind you of a little story you may have somehow overlooked. Remember Reverand Jeremiah Wright? How about Obama is a Muslim? Ringing any bells?
Obama is not only a Muslim but supports Islam so what is your point?
You obviously read something different than I did. I saw no attack by this article on the LDS church nor the people who proclaim themselves as Mormons. What I saw was an article disclosing some of the charitable acts of this church and its people. Sure it discussed the Church's policies on obtaining aid and those polices have nothing to do with Romney or Obama nor the government. Now many of the commenters of this article may have attacked Romney or Obama and the LDS church, but your statement is not germaine to the subject.
Bob W - I agree with Martha. I thought the piece really showed a lot of positive things about the LDS church that many Americans might not know. I am really surprised that you read the same thing and found it negative.
@BobW:
I think that you have been misinformed. President Obama is a Christian who was born in Hawaii, which last time I checked is part of the United States of America. He is not Muslim. Besides, what if he were Muslim - the US Constitution guarantees everyone the "Freedom of Religion". The freedom of religion refers to ANY religion, and not just 'Christian' religions.
@mymom:
Child home sick and had time to post, or child home sick and decided to take all morning and post? You would probably do more good attending to your child, even if all you did was curl up by them on the couch and comfort them, then to be on here posting. Your credibility is unraveling.....
Too bad she is sleeping, thus unraveling your psychic powers.
What? She can't be on the couch sleeping? I didn't say she was watching TV...
:)
And I never said I wasn't curled up next to her. Computers are cordless these days. :)
They had better make sure they're stocked like never before if Romney/Ryan is elected. The demand for their goods will be overwhelming since the hallmark of the R/R budget is gutting and virtually destroying the food stamp program among all other programs for the needy.
Those Mormon Food Banks are a well-kept secret from the infidels. This cult has a long history of self-sufficiency because of its belief that it is a separate Nation co-existing with the rest of America, prepared to claim its independence once again. Add to that the impending Armageddon which will herald in its being the Theocratic ruler of the world.
"...one quarter of all U.S. Mormon households earn $30,000 a year or less according to Pew Research Center."
I think we would also like to know how many of those households are on some form of Welfare, Food Stamps, Medicaid, and so on, the same assistance that the Mormon Conservatives complain about. How about all those tax deductions this group takes, big on growing the congregation by having as many children as quickly as possible even when incapable of supporting them. Look at the odd adoption laws in Utah as well, quickest way for a mother to unload her baby without the father's knowledge.
When "Rock Center" does its PR setup for the Mormon's I hope they cover the Mormon Investment Bank, who gets special favors/loans to increase personal wealth thus a kickback of tithing. The show might want to look into the Mormon Militia, post-Morten baptism of our Founding Fathers, and all the 'Secrets' and infamous history they are cultivated. Don't overlook the "Mountain Meadows Massacre" or "Mormon Wars". 'Holy Deception' is part of the game plan too. Investigative Journalism is not a strong point when it comes to Politicians.
Thanks for the laugh, Milo! Mormons taking over the world someday, a la "Independence Day", the movie. That was a great way to start your post! Thanks again!
Milo
Just a friendly piece of advice. When a lot of Americans see the word "infidels" we get a little defensive (after all that was who died at 911, infidels right?). You will not like us if we get defensive. LDS is also covered under the United States Constitution as deserving religious freedom. Part of that freedom is the right to privacy. Most of the stuff you, " would also like to know" is a breach of their civil liberties. You are a little more of a concern to me than any member of the LDS I have ever met. And no I am not one. Perhaps there is a little more we should know about YOU.
mormon wars? must have missed that flick.
You're waaay off base. HA Mountain meadows... you're a real hoot. the people that committed that offense acted independent of the church, much like the shooter in Colorado was a [insert faith here] and massacred a ton of people. people didn't call that the protestant massacre, did they? On top of that, these people that were killed were traveling through LDS communities in southern Utah threatening the people with death, saying that they were the ones that killed their families back east, or the ones that were in the mob that killed Joseph Smith. The reasoning is besides the point, but the motive was clear, and the church leadership had nothing to do with it, and in fact, tried to stop it.
Your conspiracy theories are idioticly imaginative.. You're probably a truther/anti-zionist as well.
Correct! They had a 5,000 man militia in the 1850's in Utah and were ready to confront federal troops, and lest we forget the Mountain Meadows Massacre where Mormons killed between 120-140 pioneers heading to California in a wagon train. Check out the "spin" the Mormon church puts on this one. One person was tried for the massacre years later while Brigham Young who bore responsibility squirmed his way out of it. The wagon train was worth about $3M in today's dollars. The Mormons dressed up like Native American Indians and attacked the wagon train.
Yes, nothing like Jesus Christ and his twelve apostles would you say? And Joseph Smith's death is no allegory to Jesus Christ either. He killed two people before he was shot while attempting to escape from jail. Not your typical Prophet, Jesus, or Moses story, would you say?
Milo,
The Church teaches that self-suffiency is the best course of action. As a whole, a sizable proportion of the people that are LDS and that make less than $30K do in fact not use government assistance. We are taught that we should rely on ourselves, family and friends, and then other resources such as government assistance and the Church. We are taught that we should avoid unnecessary debt, to live within our means, and to save when possible. We are taught to donate our time and resources to charitable sources. We encourage our members to work hard, get as much education as possible, and to seek opportunties to help others. These are not simple creeds but rather a way of life.
In all my life and during my time as a bishop, never once did I receive any extra money for all of the time and effort I gave. Never once did I get a kickback. As a matter of fact, each congregation is audited twice a year to make sure that all funds are administered according to policy and in an honest manner. At no time are the funds used for personal gain. That is classified at its best embezzlement and akin to apostasy and when it happens, may result in excommunication of the offender.
Please know that the financial resources of the Church at the local and churchwide level are received and administered in a manner consistent to the principles of a non-profit organization except that no clergy is paid for their service. Countless men and women give literally thousands of hours annually for no pay and no expectation of pay. I encourage anyone with the means of searching these facts out to do so themselves.
wswalcott
Do not look too close or you may see a few militias in a lot of States prepared to face "federal troops" sent by Obama to take away their rights as we speak. They have greatly increased since his election. Under the United States Constitution it is legal and preferable to tyranny or in other words Obamatics. Romney as a person and a Republican believes in LESS government and if elected I think you will see many of those militias stand down. If not.....America is at a defining turning point. And by the way everyone. Jesus was/is not a Christian. Mormons DO believe in The Christ. Just a couple of little considerations. No I am not a Mormon or a Christian. But I believe in The Christ and Jesus IS him.
Sounds to me like your Jesus is not the Prince of Peace. I don't know what "jesud" you believe in but he sure isn't the one in the bible that was written down in Scripture.
You really don't know your faith do you?
Oh ..., and what you mean by less government is Republican right-wing wackos wanting to control women's bodies by making decisions what they want to do with their OWN bodies? You call that less government? Nice try.
Mussolini described Fascism as the melding of the corproation with government. That sounds like the Republican strategy to me. So I guess that means ....,
Wow, so Mitt's cult is hoarding supplies. How come we never heard about them shipping any food or medical equipment or anything to Haiti, or Japan, or even freaking NEW ORLEANS when they had urgent life-or-death need for some of the very things the MoRmONS are stockpiling???
This story deserves A LOT more attention and media focus.
Warren, the Mormons sent tons of supplies (food and clothing) not only to Haiti, Japan and New Orleans, but also to the tornado ravaged mid-west. I'm NOT Mormon, but I am educated.
Actually, it is entertaining when the media does report on LDS aid. I recall one report (Katrina or Haiti) where it was said that the two largest groups providing aid were the Mormons and the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-Day-Saints (the recipients didn't realize it was multiple contingents from the same organization).
I applaud the Mormon's for their helping the needy just as I would any organization.
For those that chose this thread to either support or blast the Mormon's, here's a couple tidbits for you.
(A) The "Bible" has never changed. Only versions differ because of those that did the translation.
(B) The "Book of Mormon" has been changed many times over the years. So, it can never be claimed to be the true word of God or Jesus. (Although the changes have been documented, I doubt very many Mormon's even know it.) Does that mean it's a bad guide to live by? You tell me. How much does it differ from Biblical teachings?
However ... The main thing I found a little not to my liking was when two young men told me that they "were required", by the Mormon church, to spend time going door-to-door or they would not be saved in the end. My religion is not "works" based but rather "faith" based. Which, I feel is a bit more God-like. But, that's just MY opinion.
Regardless of what organization or church it may be, there is always going to be some 'twisted people' give it a bad name from within it's own group.
The Bible was put together 300 years after Christ lived. It was commissioned by a pagan Roman Emperor. It was built to calm the political fighting between pagans and christians. It is somewhat male centric and it did not include all the christian documents about christ.