Rock Center
From JetBlue to Marriott to Dell, these businesses have all been led by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. JetBlue founder David Neeleman said that his Mormon faith impacts how he does business.
"I think we're just serious about life," Neeleman told Rock Center's Harry Smith in an interview airing Thursday, Aug. 23 at 10pm/9c on NBC. "You know, we are taught that it's not bad to make money in life. It's not bad, but it's not your money, it's heavenly father's money and you should be good stewards over that money."
Neeleman recently started Azul Airlines, Brazil's fastest growing airline, in the country where his faith sent him to serve a two-year mission when he was 19-years-old.
"I not only learned how to deal with people, I saw extreme poverty," he said. "I learned to love people like I had never learned before and to have compassion."
Jeff Benedict, author of 'The Mormon Way of Doing Business,' said that the mission, the two years spent away from home trying to convince a skeptical world of the value of the Mormon faith, strongly impacts how Mormon business leaders work.
"It's a life-changing experience for them," Benedict said. "It's like a fast track to seriousness."
Editor's Note: Rock Center’s hour-long look at the Mormon faith airs Thursday, Aug. 23 at 10pm/9c on NBC’s Rock Center with Brian Williams.
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Businessweek had an excellent feature article in July, "How the Mormons Make Money."
Businessweek's article was far from excellent. It was a one sided, and horribly skewed. Granted it was a good read for those that like a good fantasy but it sure fell short of an informational article. You can find more truth at a big foot convention (His real, and I saw him shopping at the new morman mega mall). Please!
The LDS mission is cult programming pure and simple. If you look at the characteristics of what we term as a cult, the Mormon mission experience fits every criteria.
These are hallmarks of a cult. The Mormon mission produces members that are completely brainwashed into the cult.
Spin, spin, spin.
Missionaries are isolated from friends and family.I went with four friends and returned with many more. My extended family visited me in Argentina.Communication is limited to letter writing and 2 calls home per year.Probably depends on where you are. E-mails are probably the most used method.You're never allowed to be alone.We had daily siesta, when my companion chose to take a nap in the apartment and I played the piano in the attached chapel. (Whatever I wanted.)Questioning the faith is discouraged and results in a shameful return home.This is just a lie. Your first hope is to convert yourself. Several hours a day is for personal scripture study. There is no program for a "shameful" return. I guess that would have to do with the individual family, but nothing with the Church.Missionaries are not allowed to listen to music outside of hymns and approved music.Missionaries are not to "play" music that is not approved. However, we were encouraged to engross ourselves with the culture and be sort of ambassadors of the country when you return. I learned a lot about Tango. Music from home was discouraged.Missionaries are not allowed to watch TV or movies.We work 6 days & 7 nights a week. I would not choose to waste my time off with TV, but going to the movies on holidays was a treat.Missionaries are not allowed to read books outside of those approved.True, but there is no police to watch you. You choose to seek the spirit with the books you read.Missionaries memorize and repeat various phrases in unison.That ended in the late eighties as a way to learn the language quickly. Now, you are left to "Teach by the Spirit" meaning "teach only what you know to be true.Missionaries are taught to repeat over and over, "This church is true".You own your personal testimony. You are encouraged to share it but it is never required in any meeting.RazzleD,
See the definition of a cult below. Take emotions out of it. Does this sound like the experience you had on your mission?
You've been duped. The hardest thing for me to deal with was know that I converted and convinced several people in a poor country to pay 10% of their income into a viral cult.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with investigating your church's history. If the Mormon church really is what it claims to be, nothing can be damaged by investigation. I'd say that you owe it to the people you converted in Argentina. Just imagine how bad you'd feel to know that they spent what should have been used for their children's education on Mormonism. Trust me, it's a sick feeling.
Go back to your anti-mormon website and spew your b.s. there. If you spent half the time doing some good in the world, than you do trolling the internet for any article containing the word Mormon in it, you might not be such the Duche-bag you are today.
Call it what you will, but you cannot argue with the happiness of those who keep the faith. I myself am a member of a church and I can tell you that the principles I have been taught bring me great happiness. It's not just because it's my tradition, but that the word of God has that power to make one happy. You can make all the arguments you want, but it is can't argue with good old-fashioned peace, happiness, and a sense of vision for this life and the next. I invite you to ponder a little more deeply what my religion really means, because you obviously don't understand it.
Here are the characteristics of a cult:
• Small? The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) has 14 million members in 132 countries. In America, there are more Mormons than there are Presbyterians or
Jews.
• Excessive devotion? Mormons are devoted to the Savior, but in appropriate measure He would approve of.
• Unethical techniques? Ask the pie-throwers to name one.
• Control by isolation? Even if Mormons wanted to, this would be impossible with 14 million members in 28,000 congregations throughout the world.
• Control by threats? Again, evidence? Mormon missionaries may be exuberant,
but do not threaten.
• Dependency on the group? The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is just the opposite. Mormons want members to be self-reliant and independent so they in turn can help others.
• Powerful group pressure? Only if that’s the way the critics prefer to define love.
• Strange? Guilty as charged. Mormons plead guilty to all the strange things that were done by Christians in New Testament times that were lost during the great falling away in the aptly named Dark Ages, among them temple worship, baptism by immersion by the father of the family, vicarious baptism for the dead, definition of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit as separate but united in purpose, salvation requiring both grace and obedience to commandments, prophets and apostles, unpaid clergy, and continual revelation to guide His Church.
A good description of a “cult” would be the “Choom Gang” a group of marijuana-smoking Hawaiians to which Barry Obama belonged. “Barry” would dedicate his high school yearbook to the Choom Gang and to his drug dealer “Ray”.
Lorren Vissor, I read the Book of Mormon, and I prayed to God and asked him if it was true, and he told me that it was. Furthermore, I prayed to God and asked him if the LDS church was true, and he told me that it was.
I see no reason to listen to you instead of him.
Where do you get your info Vissor? Obviously not from a reliable source.
Saying that an LDS mission is "cult programming" is just not true unless you have a very different idea of what a "cult" is. The word is constantly changing and becoming more of a hate word for the last 30 years. There are good reasons for each of the items listed in the list above but the greatest majority of missionaries are already members from birth, they don't need to be "brain-washed" into believing anything. They have a testimony of the truth already. Also, no one is forced to stay a missionary. If a young man decides he does not want to obey the rules, he has a choice of going home or disobeying and trying to hide it. It's up to him. It's not meant to be a "cake-walk".
Missions are great. I ws never controlled. I was never brainwashed. We were given a great opportunity to invest ourselves in the service of others. What better way to grow, and get to know yourself than by putting yourself in a challenging situation (such as talking with others you don't know, in a place you've never been), doing things you are not polished and skilled in, while learning from the good people you are serving with, and turning to God in almost every situation for direction and guidance. The growth opportunities are tremendous. Going on an LDS mission is a great opportunity to put your selfish interests away, and serve a cause that is greater than yourself. You get to teach of things that are personally meaningful to you, and it's wonderful to see the light that comes from the gospel of Jesus Christ come into others' lives.
Was it easy? Of course not. But I can see time after time where my own faith was strengthened in deeply personal, and meaningful ways. I don't think this is possible if one is walking about, living the life of a robot. Missionaries are some of the most lively, dynamic people I know. While serving on my own LDS mission, and in the many years of working with them since, I can say without reservation that these are some of the most wonderful, helpful, and selfless people that you'll ever find.
You may not embrace the message, but I promise that if you ever invite LDS missionaries into your home, you will be treated to an uplifting, friendly, and remarkably kind experience. What a striking contrast to the tumult that is common among our teenagers, and young adults. These missionaries are focused on doing good, and any guidelines they follow are there to help them remember that it's not a vacation, it's not a cultural exchange - it is pure missionary service: the giving of oneself for the benefit of others.
Good one Lorren. So I guess anytime someone is:
-Dedicated and focused on doing something that they believe in, that makes them part of a cult.
-Not watching tv on a regular basis, is involved with a cult.
-Wanting to go 2 by 2, is in a cult
Sounds like you have been "brainwashed" into thinking mormons are part of a "cult".
By their fruits you shall know them....
The way a religion acts in comparison to other religions generally determines the subjective cult label. These are things you need to ask yourself.
Does your church discourage reading material critical of your religion?
Does your church regularly interview you to ensure your compliance?
Does your church publish how the money that is gathered is spent?
Does your church punish members who investigate their history and publish their findings?
Do you find that there's a us vs them mentality?
Are you taught that salvation can only be obtained through your religion?
Are you told how to dress?
Are you told how to cut your hair?
Does your church tell you what to eat, think, drink, watch, and read?
These are questions you need to ask yourself. I'd say the exact same thing to a Scientologist or a Jehova's Witness. Religious extremism is a scourge on our society.
I personally appreciate the teachings of Christ and the example he gave humanity. If you look back at his teachings, you'll find that his harshest criticisms were aimed at extremists.
Lorren,
It seems that all you want to do is criticize a religion that you apparently don't really know much about.
-My religion may give guidelines on reading material, viewing material and other forms of media, but it does not tell me what I can read, view or discuss. I make those choices myself. I happen to read over 300 books a year, and there's no list I know of that I must check to see if they're approved. I do that all by myself. I do the same thing with movies, music and tv (which I don't watch often since I seldom find anything enjoyable to see-I hate "reality" shows and sitcoms have become so lame and stupid for instance).
-My church does have the option of scheduling interviews regularly if a person so chooses. If not, there is no requirement. Again, I make the choice.
-We are told how our tithing and other offerings are spent. We know that 100% of the funds collected go directly to the purposes for which they are gathered. We have a lay-ministry, so no funds go to any of our leaders. As for contributions, they are all 100% voluntary.
-The church does not "punish" people for investigating our history, but they do insist on accuracy and truth. If persons insist on publishing inaccuracies or untruths, they are asked to discontinue the inaccuracies.
-There is no "us vs. them" mentality. Of course, persons are free to have their own attitudes including such an us vs. them mentality or prejudices of all kinds, but they are not sanctioned or encouraged by the church. The church believes in "doing good to all men", and is exemplary in their efforts to do so.
-The Bible clearly teaches that salvation comes through Jesus Christ and we fervently believe and teach that doctrine.
-We are not told how to dress. However, we are encouraged to dress in ways that show respect to our creator while worshiping Him and to show respect for ourselves by dressing modestly. Still, the choice is up to each person.
-We absolutely are not told how we can cut or wear our hair. Missionaries do have guidelines about hair length, but they are representing the Church in an official capacity, and it is their own choice to do so.
-We are not told what to eat, drink, think, watch or read. We are given guidelines on using wisdom in what we eat and drink as well as what we watch and read.
One of the most important things we are taught is the use of our free agency or choice. We may choose to come unto Christ ourselves through our actions, thoughts, and deeds, or we may choose not to. But it will always be our own choice.
I am LDS but inactive and I can still say that it is what brings me the greatest peace and happiness. I am HUGE on agency and thanks to my religion I know that even though my backside doesn't hit a church bench - I am still loved and treasured. I am welcome anytime and even though I may swear like a sailor and keep an IV of diet Coke in me at all times - I am still okay and I still know that my gospel does want what is best for me even if I don't live it everyday. I don't have an issue with Orthodox Jews (to name one other way of thinking) or the missionaries from other religions who show up at my door so why does anyone have issues with what I choose to believe. I am not hurting anyone at all. :)
The LDS (Mormon) Church has been an excellent influence in my life. It has helped me become a better person and act more kindly toward others. It has taught me principles that have helped me become more like Christ. You can read more about the faith at mormon.org
Lorren,
You missed the boat entirely! There is nothing about a mission that is "cult programming". All the young men, women, and older couples are there of their own free choice and will and they believe that what they are teaching is true so they certainly don't need to repeat over and over "the church is true." Yes, there are rules that missionaries are asked to follow while serving but even that is voluntary. According to your definition, if you send your son or daughter off to summer camp where they are asked to follow rules for the safety and welfare of all involved, that is "cult programming". Get serious! Missionaries learn about love, compassion, dedication, empathy, tolerance, forgiveness, spiritual awareness, service, honesty, chastity, self control, virtue, and integrity. You might say, "We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things." There is a reason why most missionaries returning home from a mission say "It was the best two years of my life!"
According to your definition, if you send your son or daughter off to summer camp where they are asked to follow rules for the safety and welfare of all involved, that is "cult programming".
If that summer camp forces the campers to only read "approved" material, doesn't allow contact with the outside world, forces your child to dress a certain way, involves constant religious programming, and discourages free thought, then yes: it is cult programming. There are camps that probably qualify.
There is a reason why most missionaries returning home from a mission say "It was the best two years of my life!"
Don't get me wrong. I really enjoyed my mission. It wasn't until much later in life that I realized what I had done and what the experience had done to me. It's never too late to undo the negative effects of a Mormon mission and it's never to late to let those around you know the truth.
Of course you don't recognize the fact that you're in a cult. That's the problem with cults. The members don't realize it.
Here's the check list prepared by Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.
You'll see how Mormonism and especially the Mormon missionary mirrors the behaviors of a cult:
✓ The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. No Question here.
✓ ‪Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. Yep. Doubters and dissenters are sent home in disgrace.
‪✓ Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). Bearing testimony, reciting the Standard of Truth, Book of Mormon intro.
‪✓ The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). Yes. Clothing assigned. Dating prohibitted.
‪✓ ✓ The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). Go ahead and recite "Called to Serve".
‪✓ The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. Absolutely no question here. Fiery darts of the adversary..
‪X The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations). Probably not in this case.
‪✓ The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion. Anyone who has been through the MTC knows this is true.
‪✓ Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group. In many sad cases, this was too true.
‪✓ ✓✓✓The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. No explanation needed.
‪✓ The group is preoccupied with making money. Tithing required for temple. Tithing interview required once per year.
‪✓ Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities. Absolutely. 6.5 days per week. One half day off for "preparation".
‪✓ Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. Missionaries are never allowed to be alone.
‪✓ The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group. 100% Apostasy in Mormonism causes divorce. Parents often disown apostate children.
Cult members rarely recognize that they belong to a cult.
If words matter, I absolutely believe that they do – how social institutions such as the press talk and commentators can shape the public’s social construction of reality. Words like “cult” are now perceived to be, in our culture, inflammatory. So next time you read a headline or hear commentators like Lorren talk about the LDS church as a cult – think about it for a moment. What is he/she trying to get you to believe? And perhaps more importantly, why? How does such a negative construction of a word to identify a religion help his or her postion? Simply put he/she has an axe to grind against a church that does good in the world in which we live. Christ once said, "by their fruit ye shall know them". The LDS church is a wonderful organization helping many people, the Mormon (LDS) people I know are hard working, dedicated to their families, honest and good examples of service to other people. I admire them and what they stand for in a world full of hatred, selfishness, and darkness. Lorren you really need to meet with a Mormon and get to know them before you pass judgment upon them with your use of the negative word "Cult" for which the church is not even close to being considered a cult. Get your facts straight by truly knowing LDS church members and see their examples of seeking after Christ! It would do alot more good than your negative and false posts to news websites.
Greentavern,
I don't have an ax to grind. And I know Mormonism very well. I served a mission for the Mormon church and I was married in the Mormon temple. It wasn't till much later in life that I realized that I was living in a cult.
You'll see the same thing with former members of Scientology, Jehova's Witness and the Amish. Once I understood the truth about the Mormon church, I decided to let others know. My message here is to all current membership. We're in the midsts of a "Mormon Spring".
The Internet has brought us the most valuable research tool in history. I suggest you start by reading mormonthink.com
There's no truer scripture than John 8:32 "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
I have been a member of the LDS Church for 40 years. Prior to that I was Unitarian (nice group). I was comfortable with them. I met with he missionaries for a few months and carefully examined what they had to say. It was liberating. They gave me evidence that I could work with to build my relationship with God. They gave me insight into the development of my 'agency' to make my own decisions and to grow faster and better as a result. They gave me direction, that when followed of my own choosing, gave me a vastly expanded ability to think, mature, and cause good things to occur around me. There was no evidence of a cult then and there is none now. As liberal as my previous church affiliation was, this is far more so. Not until you have started to refine yourself, with help of the Holy Ghost, can you begin to understand this. The LDS Church is strongly committed to individual and personal growth. No one comes close to it. No one. As committed as most churches are to God, the LDS Church is completely committed to its members to genuinely become like Christ. Because of work, I have been to most places in the world. I have seen up close and from a distance what the LDS Church quietly does, and it is extraordinary. No fanfare. Just get it done. Just like the Savior. The reference to John 8:32 is delightful. "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." It is by the power of the Holy Ghost that Truth is given. It is by that same source that all LDS are encouraged to be guided and choose for themselves as they seek to become like the Savior.
For years it has been printed everywhere that we want to be called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" or Latter Day Saints. So NBC and Brian Williams have to name the program Mormon in America. This came from a very bad and insulting time in our history, not to mention when we were run out of Missouri (The Church recently received and apology after all these years) and was meant to be a derogatory term. So we start with an insult; I wonder where we go from here. I wonder how "factual" and how much "spin" we will see. Just reading the misconceptions and inaccuracies in these comments makes me wish there was a forum where we could voice how it really is to be a "Latter Day Saint in America".
Please read above
My apology for duplication--it was not clear that the first one was accepted.
Lorren is off his rocker.
I understand your frustration. I've been in your position. It's hard to admit that you've been conned your entire life. If our 19th century ancestors had the information we have today in the information age, we wouldn't even be talking about Mormonism.
Take a good look at cumora.org. It's OK. It's run by an active member. You'll find that the Mormon church is stymied in places where the majority of households have internet access. Do a google search for "Sweedish Rescue LDS". You'll find that the church is collapsing in Sweeden and the LDS church is trying to desperately to slow the exodus. Similar efforts have been made in Ireland and England.
You don't see it because you live in Zion. Call a friend that lives outside of the Mormon core. The implosion of Mormonism has already started. Mitt's candidacy is just accelerating it.
Lorren said, "It wasn't till much later in life that I realized that I was living in a cult. You'll see the same thing with former members of Scientology, Jehova's Witness and the Amish."
I don't know any Amish but the active Scientologists and Jehova Witnesses I know are really cool. They are happy, peaceful, loving, and free thinking. So, you just blew your own argument apart.
I pray that you may find peace from your hatred for so many groups.
Lorren, great effort, but remember what you're dealing with here. The people responding all believe that Brigham Young fathered 57 children to 16 different women, several of whom were legally married to other living men at the time... Because God commanded him to. LOL
You will not get any form of rationality out of any of them. As you said... The people brainwashed into a CULT are always the last to realise that they are brainwashed into a CULT.
Mormon Meuk you are part of the Gay Cult, as such anyone who opposes homosexuality is your enemy.
Wow Maria.
This is really no shock. Boyd K Packer stated that the three biggest enemies of the Mormon church were:
Given Boyd's stance, your language is not shocking or unexpected. Do a search on Youtube for Scientology. There's quite a few videos featuring people confronting Scientologists. Their reaction mirrors your reaction on this board.
Cults can be dangerous because of this "Us vs the World" mentality. This mentality makes them culturally isolating. If you were alive to see the friction that grew between the LDS church and the rest of the country before the 1978 "revelation", you'd know what I'm talking about.
Every cult has a defence mechanism for dealing with critics. The term "anti-Mormon" is used to classify all people who are critical of Mormonism. Another term favored by the Mormon church is "apostate". The Amish use the term "English". Scientologists use the term "Suppressive Person" or SP. Extremist Muslim groups use the term "infidel". These extremist groups cultivate negativity surrounding these words.
When I was a young Mormon lad, many people recounted how they felt when they read "anti-Mormon" material. They told me they felt a horrible feeling inside when confronted by the "anti-Mormons". My mother said she was once given an "anti-Mormon" pamphlet. She said the entire house felt dark and evil until she burned it in the fireplace. These sentiments conditioned me to feel the same way. This is one telltale signature of a cult.
You have to ask yourself: Where are the "anti-Methodists", "anti-Lutherans" or the "anti-Nazarenes"? There are certainly people who oppose them. These terms are not popularized in our vernacular because the respective groups don't demonize their critics.
Good for you, thanks fro being supportive of Lorren. I do not know him, but I am proud of his efforts to shine the light of truth into a religion that caused so much pain in my life, and let's not get started about Mormons and their sexual issues. Lots of unwed mothers in Utah and LDS men caught in shall we say, unusual, sexual siruations.
Don't think Mormonism is a cult? Search on YouTube for
Episode 6: Mormon Temple: Inside the Prayer Circle
and tell me it's not a cult.
Former Mormon here--the LDS missionary program sent me to Denmark. Here's a little bit about my experience.
At the very beginning I was excited and honored for the opportunity, but something always felt wrong about what we were doing and how we were doing it. I wasn't able to put it into words or express it to anyone. I saw no culturally acceptable way to share my concerns, so I assumed the problem was with me and not with what we were doing.
A year after coming back from Denmark and having gone to a couple semesters of college I had enough time and distance to process my thoughts and feelings about the cold hard facts of the origins of Mormonism. My literalist Mormon worldview expanded into a pluralistic one in the coarse of a few months.
Maybe this is an overused metaphor but it is really very accurate, my experience felt like learning Santa Claus is just a fun story. I can't go back to my old paradigm and I wouldn't want to. Reality is much more challenging, exciting, and rewarding.
This debate on whether the LDS missionary program is a cult is a battle over the meaning and connotation of the word. I don't see this as a very useful discussion. Humans often feel pressure to conform. This is part of our nature. Anytime we form groups of any size our brains try to convince us to conform to the apparent consensus and to encourage others to do the same. This phenomenon is found in full swing at the Mormon mission training center and during their assignments from leaders probably because it is so structured, restricted, scheduled with high expectations. This is not a healthy or pleasant environment for many of the young people who choose to participate without fully knowing what they were getting themselves into.
Over half of these young people in this program decide to no longer participate in Mormonism shortly after ending their missionary assignment. About 8 out of 10 of their converts decide to no longer participate in their local congregations within a few months of their baptism.
If the time and energy put into the LDS missionary program was a very beneficial thing to these young people and their converts why do most of them soon decide Mormonism is not for them? LDS culture and its missionary program is in need of reform to legitimize disagreements with the leaders and remove unhealthy levels of pressure to conform.
Harrison - I enjoy your thoughts on this subject. They are valid to a point of view. My only issue is that anyone can spin facts to make their point.
If nobody left the LDS Church than it must be a cult, on the other hand, if people leave the Church it must be false.
If the Church is small it may be a cult as it removes it's members from society, on the hand, if the Church is large or growing than "Anytime we form groups of any size our brains try to convince us to conform to the apparent consensus and to encourage others to do the same."
Good fuel for the media any way you look at it.
Cult is certainly an objective term. As far as 'cultishness' goes, Mormonism is no different than Scientology, Jehova's Witness, Amway, and several other multi-level marketing companies. All are extremely zealous in attracting and keeping members. Outward devotion (actions), however, is not necessarily an indicator of truthfulness, but often a technique for high rates of retention.
Sorry, 'subjective'.
You have made a pretty good list of factors which constitute a cult. However, there is one fact, the most important fact, which you left out. It is that in a CULT, the members are FORCED to do the things you list. Although you could loosely connect your list items with some of the characteristics of a Mormon mission, the one fact that nullifies your entire argument is that a missionary is not FORCED to do any of those things. He/she commits to the actions voluntarily, and is not spied on or otherwise watched how well they live up to the item(s). Whether they do them or not is strictly a matter of honor on the part of the missionary. If a missionary disagrees with one of the "rules", he can simply not honor it, and, unless he tells someone what he is doing, nobody knows about it except the missionaryujiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiijijjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjijijjijjijjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj
Wow Larry. Hopefully you were just overcome by the spirit and not a stroke. Please stay safe.
Mormonism is the religion practiced by Mormons, and is the predominant religious
tradition of the Latter Day Saint movement.
This movement was founded by Joseph Smith, Jr. beginning in the 1820s as a form of Christian primitivism.
During the 1830s and 1840s, Mormonism gradually
distinguished itself from traditional Protestantism
Mormonism shares a common set of beliefs with the rest of the Latter Day Saint movement, including use of, and belief in, the Bible. But pick and choose as they see fit.
For the most part- spiritual movements arose from a revolt against authority. Someone felt they know best.
So just throw out the written guidlines.
Jesus while on earth speaking to the disciples:
Acts 20: 30 And from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples.
But though we (god or the disiples) or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he, it is to be accursed.
Galatians 1: 8
Repeated again in verse 9
In other words ( I know you not will be the words the followers hear)!
That sounds pretty clear.
I was 17 when I was baptized into the church. I came from a dysfunctional family, rampant alcoholism, physical and mental abuse. In our home "Jesus Christ" was a swear word. I barely graduated from high school, only me and one sister (5 children) ever accomplished it. My mother has been married five times, my sister and brother both died of drug related events. I have another brother who may die because of cirrhosis of the liver due to alcohol abuse.
About a year and a half later I left on my mission to Great Britain. Those two years taught me so much. A lot of the disciplines I learned came from living the mission rules, keeping a rigid schedule, and working longer and harder than I ever have in my life. Missionaries are taught correct principles, but are left to govern themselves. Yes, I believed in what I was doing and tried to be obedient to the rules because I felt better about myself and closer to the Lord. Was I brainwashed? I'm not sure what that is, but it was easier to focus on what I was supposed to be doing If I didn't spend my time watching TV, reading negative literature, or listening to worldly music. I was an ordained minister for those two years and was expected to dress and act the part. I was proud that I was a representative of the Lord, set apart from the rest of the world. What a great learning experience. 40 years later I do not have a day pass by that I don't think about my missionary experiences, and how they have helped shape my life.
The result of my mission is that I came back a much more disciplined person who knew how to study, work hard, set goals, get along with others, be compassionate, serve others and be honest in my dealings with my fellow man. I have been married to the same woman over 36 years, financially successful, never had to go to the government for help, raised 4 children, continue a faithful tithe payer and remain active in my church and in faith and service to the Lord Jesus Christ. So if this all the result of being a member of a dangerous cult, then so be it!
Cult
Any group that believes the blasphemous nonsense that all the souls of men and women are the result of sexual intercourse between God and his wife - the Eternal Mother in Heaven Goddess is in a Cult.
Any group that believes that they are going to be exalted to a God and Goddess in eternity is in a Cult.
While others in this post have discussed what a "cult" means, you just made up your own definition.
Perhaps we should all just make up our own definitions for ourselves and stop judging others.
You need to get out of the Salt Lake Cult of LDS, RazzleD. You know you believe these absurd heresies.
My family and I lived in Massachusetts for almost 20 years. One day we were asked by the two missionaries assigned to our ward to contact our friends and ask them to answer a few questions from a survey that we were taking. I told the missionaries that we wouldn't do that, because we weren't really taking a survey. The pretext of a survey was just a way to make contact with our friends and talk about the church. Was the church a cult because the missionaries were trying to use a way to contact people that I felt was misleading? No, of course not. The two missionaries were just trying to follow their instructions from their Mission President. Was the Mission President using misleading tactics to contact people? In my opinion, yes. Does that make the church a cult or false? No. The Mormon Church has a lay ministry in which individual leaders have a lot of freedom to choose how to do their church work. It's normal, and should be expected, to have individual leaders do things that I feel are inappropriate. (The church publishes a handbook of instructions, and leaders have a lot of freedom in how they interpret the "rules" from the handbook.)
What would I have done if I were a missionary under a Mission President who wanted his missionaries to use "surveys" in their work? I probably would have tried to follow his instructions, but I would (I hope) have tried to make the surveys be real surveys by compiling the results and publishing them for all to see. In fact, during my mission 56 years ago, I conducted a survey of Christian churches and contacted the various Christian churches in my town. At the conclusion, I compiled the results and sent them to the ministers of the churches. The use of this survey was not proscribed by my mission president. It was just something my companion and I did.
For 18 months to 24 months, missionaries officially represent the church, and it is proper that the missionaries have more restrictions about their dress and conduct during those months. Because they represent the church, they project the image of the church that is given to the world. LDS General Authorities want that image to be positive, and they specify ways that will give a positive image of the missionaries. When they are released from their missions, they are released from the restrictions placed on the missionaries.
I'm in a parallel situation today. My Stake President wants all Priesthood leaders to wear a white shirt and a tie. I normally wear non-white shirts when I attend church, and I've continued to do so for many years. However, if I'm acting as a Priesthood leader, I wear a white shirt. Is the church false because this particular Stake President wants his leaders to wear white shirts? No, of course not. He decision about this matter is purely his particular decision. I expect that other Stake presidents might have different views. I feel comfortable attending church in a non-white shirt when I'm not acting as a Priesthood leader, and I feel comfortable attending church in a white shirt when I'm acting as a Priesthood leader. I feel comfortable being a member of a church in which leaders have a lot of freedom about my dress when I represent the church. I feel comfortable knowing that other Stake Presidents have different views than those stated by my Stake President.
I've been thinking about the word cult. According to dictionary.com, a cult is
1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
So, it seems that any belief in God is a cult. Christianity is a cult. Unfortunately, many people use the word cult only in a negative sense. Those people need to broaden their perspective about cults. People and traditions that are different than they aren't automatically evil and wicked and bad.
1 hr devoted to Mormonism, now take 1 hr and devote it to Black Liberation Theology, Obama's upbringing (since your network failed to make it an issue in '08), and then let America decide whose values most represent their own.
I love your idea! He will not do it, because he is a coward!