By Anna Schecter
Rock Center
Though Katie Holmes has not addressed reports that Scientology was a reason she split with Tom Cruise, a former Church of Scientology spokesman said some families, including his own, were torn apart when one spouse wanted to leave the religion.
“My wife, my son, my daughter, my mother….they disconnected from me. They will not communicate with me,” said Mike Rinder in an interview with Kate Snow airing on Thursday, July 12 at 10pm/9c on NBC's Rock Center with Brian Williams.
Rinder joined the church as a child in Australia and rose to be Scientology’s international spokesman before he left the church in 2007.
He said he had been unhappy inside the church for a long time, but was afraid to leave because he said the church encouraged members to cut ties with relatives who want to leave.
“Part of that environment is keeping track of how people think…it’s a crime to …think bad thoughts about what’s going on and people will turn you in. Even your spouse will turn you in or your children will turn you in and then you’ll be in trouble,” he said.
When he finally decided to leave, he said he called his wife of 31 years and their two children and asked them to join him.
“The first thing that I did was I contacted them and said, 'Okay, I'm done. I'm gone. I'm in Virginia. Please come and join me.' And the answer was, ‘F-you.’ Literally,” he said.
In addition to losing his family, Rinder said he has been harassed by the church, an assertion the church denies.
“They've had private investigators follow me for months and months and months, everywhere I went,” he said.
In 1998, Rinder was on the other side of the fence, defending Scientology in an interview with Dateline.
"There isn't and hasn't been any effort which has been taken to quote silence critics," said Rinder to Dateline in 1998.
Today, Rinder says he frequently lied to the public in his role as a church spokesman.
The Church of Scientology says it does not encourage members to cut ties with relatives who have left the church.
In a letter to NBC News, an attorney for the church wrote that Rinder is, “untrustworthy, unreliable and biased,” adding that he is a self-promoter who is using a tragic personal matter to forward his own anti-Scientology agenda. The church denies following or harassing Rinder after he left the church.
The church has said Rinder abandoned his wife and their two children and has accused him of being violent towards his ex-wife and other members of the church.
NBC News could not reach Rinder’s ex-wife for comment.
Rinder said at times he was violent towards some church members prior to his separation from the Church of Scientology, but said it was all part of the environment inside the church.
More from Rock Center:
Families question Scientology-linked rehab after recent deaths
Breaking Away: What is Scientology?
Breaking Away: What happens when a Scientologist leaves?
Tom Cruise's former Scientology auditor speaks about Cruise/Kidman Divorce
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Scientology is not a religion as generally defined----It is more like one of L. Ron Hubbard's Sci-Fi books
-- less boring but equally unbelievable.
Oppressive community of people are difficult to handle. They overstep their boundaries.
But, when you have children, and they interfere, it becomes unbearable.
No matter the organization, people are people. They feel the need to control others.
It's all a business, preying on people's needs to be a part of something.
Many of these oppressive organizations need money to source their operations.
And folks will do anything to feel that they "fit in" with the group, especially the needy people.
Humans have a need to be part of a pack.
They want to be "like"d. They willingly pay their way, so desparately.
And these oppressive community have the charismatic, charming folks who can manipulate
many into a false sense of ideal, like they really care about the individuals.
When the money runs out, or, a better person of opprtunities comes along, guess what happens?
They are forgotten about, as they are ushered into their duties, jobs, to keep the machine operating.
For the few who actually get to enjoy the profits of all those forgotten, well, they really don't care.
They don't want to have the "forgotten" reminded of why those who left the organization.
So, they don't become wise to the games being played and leave.
It happens all of the time, in various sorts of any organization.
Just human nature, people just want to be accepted.
There are people who just want to use them for their own benefit.
People are people, no matter what group you belong to, or want to belong.
Families are the hardest group to belong.
God has a great sense of humor, you don't get to pick the family you are born into.
These people are idiots with a @!$%# load of money and that makes a scary concoction. "untrustworthy, unreliable and biased" is the party line they vomit every time someone wises up and leaves the cult and has the guts to speak out against them. Seriously, every time I read a FORMER Scientology higher up talk against them that is what is said in retaliation against them from some scientology spokesperson and then they will back it up by some online link they use as "proof" of some investigation done by their own cult members. Xenu needs to enlighten them with a new party line but then what do I know, I'm just a "suppressive person".
NBC shoulda gone into this area of scientology--
after reading that I'll never watch Cruise or Travolta again- Whacked!!!
Why isn't NBC investigating that other creepy, secretive religion, Mormonism? I live among them and they are as bizarre and scary as the Scientologists and even more dangerous because one of their own is running for president.
And he is much higher up in their organization than he now admits.
Is he really that bad? Sure, he's Mormon, but he's a person, too.
I think he has Christian values.
Honestly, I don't know anything about Mormonism, but I'd like to believe it's not evil.
Anony,
It's not.
Unfortunately, human nature causes some people to automatically believe the worst about other people, or another group of people, instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt and/or going to the source to get answers. Somebody somewhere along the line was probably told about a certain practice, got it mixed up as they repeated it to someone else, and so on and so forth. We'll take temples for an example. While non-members are allowed to tour a newly constructed temple for a certain period of time, once that time period is over, it is dedicated, consecrated, blessed, (whatever term you'd like to use) and from that point on, it is considered sacred and only members are allowed inside. The next thing you know, someone like Elizabeth comes along and states that she knows someone who left the church and wasn't even allowed inside the "building" for his daughter's wedding. Well, that sounds like he was shunned, right? In reality, there are 2 different kinds of "buildings" in Mormonism from what I know; the churches and the temples.
If he was no longer a member, it is true he would not be permitted inside the temple, but couples can decide to have their weddings performed at the church house so everyone and anyone can attend. I have been to such ceremonies. If he wasn't permitted to go, it simply means that his daughter was an active member who thought it was important to be married in the temple vs. the church because there are certain other rites performed there in addition to the "I do's" such as "sealings", meant to allow a marriage to last into the afterlife vs. "til death do us part". So unless he was just a nutcase and was specifically asked not to return to church house property, he wasn't permitted as a non-member to enter the temple. Since we don't know him personally, let's do the right thing and assume the first scenario is the one that fits.
You are right to question the bashing, as it contains assertions that are incorrect and/or taken out of context. Many people believe Mormonism is a cult, and because they stick together, by definition, that point is debatable. I would also like to point out that there are nutty people in groups of all types, so one person's experiences (i.e. Utahlady thinks they're creepy, secretive, bizarre, and scary) cannot be applied to everyone, everywhere. My own personal experiences have been mixed, but mostly pleasant. Keep in mind, too, that we are in an election season and there are those who come to threads like this under the guise of anonymity to try and sway people's thinking. I would advise you to go straight to the source with the questions you have and ask. If you agree, fine. If not, no big deal. That's what America is all about! Take care...
Good job pointing out cultural bias. Great post, altogether! You sound balanced.
Stupid is, as stupid does.
"The Church of Scientology says it does not encourage members to cut ties with relatives who have left the church."
BS! I have lost family members because of that. This article is absolutely the truth!
I have let go of the family members, but when I read about TC in the media, I realize that Hubbard was right about celebrities bringing cred to it, and that he was murdered by the church leaders. Nobody talks about that, but that is truth too.
There needs to be a war to rid this World of this evil capitalistic "religion". It is just pure evil!
I hope you don't want the world rid of the principles behind religion, at least. Without those, you might just rid everything else, too.
First and foremost, please stop calling it a religion MSNBC. It is a philosophy, a racket and perhaps a cult, as are all other "religions." Second, one gets what they sign up for. There are no victims here. Just ignorance and the inability to think for oneself.
Why?
Because Scientology was a "religion" started by L. Ron Hubbard who discovered that riches could be made by inventing a religion. He said it himself. Katie Holmes is fully justified in getting away from this cult. Go Katie, forget Tom, he is woefully deceived by a religous movement started by a man to make money. Run away...
l rod hubbard science fiction writer dah
i'm so tired of the word cult being used in the wrong way....All religions are considered cults.
a particular system of religious worship,
especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
All religions have rites and ceremonies.
so if you say cult are a bad thing...then religion is bad.... hmmmm go figure
There ought to be a bit more figuring than yours to deciding the rightfulness of what billions of people commit themselves to.
If you enforce the copyright on your holly scripture, you just might be a cult. Apologies to Jeff Foxworthy.
I was invited to a Scientology meeting back in 1969-70 not knowing anything about this curisoity lead me to go. When I got there I was asked to share myself with the group. When I told them that I was a Diabetic (juvenile onset- insulin dependent) I was then told that it was all in my mind so they would help remove it from my mind and I would be cured. I told them to "Go to Hell" and walk out. They discuss me and to this day I think of "JIM JONES" when I hear about this supposed church cult
As I continue to seek understanding and balance, it appears as though the Nation of Islam and Scientology are somewhat similar in their practices regarding their treatment of those individual members that seek a more in-depth enlightenment and relationship with our Divine CREATOR. In addition and due to my exposure (via media I may add), to the leaders of Scientology and The Nation of Islam, it appears as though they both suffer from some form of paranoia schizophrenia due to their strong desire to have complete control over every movement and thought of their members.
I would like to know if anyone else has notice any similarities of these religious sects and their practices and what suggestions/wisdom you would like to contribute?
In advance, thank you for contributing to my deeper understanding.
WHOLENESS,
Thank you for your efforts to try and understand the beliefs of others. Unfortunately, I have had no experience with either Scientology or Nation of Islam except through the media, just as you have. That's why I came here to begin with. Trying to get a handle on things...
I can say that I have taken the time to talk with Jehovah's Witnesses because I too am curious as to why people believe what they believe. I found that they share many beliefs with mainstream religions and some things I never understood before that sounded odd to me made more sense when I asked them point blank about my concerns. While I disagree with the practice of some of their views, I certainly understand them better. They don't seem as strange as I once thought them to be because I took the time to ask.
I also have had many experiences with Mormonism and I can say that while some things are different in terms of how they go about practicing their faith, it appears to me that they do in fact share the majority of their beliefs with "mainstream" Christianity, which some people either refuse to believe, or are trying to scare people off for one reason or another.
I'm sorry I couldn't help you more, but I wish you luck in finding the answers to your questions. :)
People will do some pretty stupid things just to feel like they belong to a group.
Right. Trust the group that commits crimes against humanity. Bat-$ht insane pieces of wacky garbage. Religion kills.
Sorry, I missed your remark about Christianity. Did you have something specific or are you just cruising for a cause?
Someone stated that you don't need God if the devil doesn't exist. As I see it, religion is not really about God or Satan or even good vs evil. It's about death. If we weren't aware that our lives will come to an end, we wouldn't need to invent "life after death." As for Scientology, it's a religion just like the many other superior being based belief systems we have in this world. That is to say, it is made up by man and its foundations and tenets are preposterious. The Hollywood elites believe they can buy a ticket to heaven. This doesn't make them any different than attendants of other churches. Invoking the name of L. Roin Hubbard, Jesus or Mohammad, leads us all to the same place in the end. Eternal death.
Sorry for not finishing reading your post; I stopped after you said "life after death." I think you're completely wrong about religions in totality. Perhaps your view makes sense to you, but others are free to believe that their unique religion, indeed, impacts life here also, regardless of whether we die or not. It's quite myopic of you to claim that "religion is all about death." That's very unassuming of you, especially since religion impacts people's lives-not just their deaths.
Tell me how something can impact your life after death? You answered your own question but didn't realize it. By thinking about consequences and circumstance, and evaluation of life, during life, it will be more measured and better lived most of the time.
By the way, people who don't believe in religion will still die, also; so tell me what makes them so much smarter for ignoring specific cultural practices? Does their religion have some overarching malicious warrant to society?
Tell me how you've figured what death really is? Have you any concept of eternity...?
Back in 1969-70 I was invited to a Scientolgy meeting. Curiousity got the best of me so I attended. They ask me to share myself with the group so while I was sharing I told them that I was a Diabetic (Juvenile On set-Insulin dependent) the responce was that it was all in my head and they had the ability to help me become healthy and think it away. I looked at these crazy people and told them to "GO TO HELL" and walked out. The people of thiss "CULT" remind me of "JIM JONES' and "are" nothing but a CULT
For anyone interested in the whole story, read these three short books, all online, all free: "A Piece of Blue Sky," "Operation Clambake," and "Bare-Faced Messiah." After 30+ years inside, I can attest to the truth and validity of all three.
Seeking balance, when was the term "scientology" introduced into society? ...and the term, "The Nation of Islam?" What personality traits do the founders of the organizations possess and have in common? I am just most curious as to what our behavior analysis have to share.
Defining Wholeness and Completeness through Wisdom---Wholeness
What a bunch of cornballs.
they have harrassed mre for 25 years since I left.
Scn harrassed me for 25 years after I left and it still goes on. Its unbelievable!
Should just become a Unitarian Universalist. We don't beg or stalk. We have all walks of life in our church and yes it's a church. Google it. We welcome one and all. AND you don't have to pay unless you want to AND we tell you were it's all going. We belief in a demoarcy within out church.
Sounds like he didn't leave soon enough.
What separates a religion from a cult, anyways? What's so bad about a cult in general?
Obviously, any congregation that places itself as eternally more important than family ought to rethink its position.
Please get this straight. Jews didn't kill Jesus, Roman soldiers did.
To the point, the Jews didn't kill Jesus the Romans in fact did have him put to death. However, one must ask themselves, what issue did the Romans have with Jesus? None. So why did they put Jesus to death? It was at the request of the Jewish leaders. By law the Jews couldn't put anyone to death. When an executioner injects a condemned person the lethal concoction, he in fact caused this persons death, but in true the court (judge and jury) requested his death. The executioner had no issue with him, just doing his job. So if it wasn't for the Jews pressuring the Romans to put Jesus to death, it would have never happened, correct? Is this historical FACT now anti-Semitic? For some it is, however regardless of the time in which we now live in where one has to watch even their thinking or else they are labeled, one can not change history. Read up on it.
Any references to jesus in any "history" books other than a bible written 300 yrs after the fact? You'd think some contempory historian would write about somebody who had such a better-than-average following.
A Scientology "minister" recorded beating a child that "blew" (ran away). Just Google "wally hanks beating a child". Its on Youtube too. Brutal Scientology violence against children on tape.