By Anna Schecter
Rock Center
Katie Holmes and Tom Cruise's settlement is now final and neither of them has publicly addressed reports that the Church of Scientology-and the future role of Scientology in their daughter Suri’s life-was a cause of the split.
One former Church of Scientology official is speaking out about what he said he witnessed at the time of Cruise’s 2001 divorce from actress Nicole Kidman.
Marty Rathbun, who worked at the church for 27 years before leaving in 2004, said that he believes church officials used Scientology doctrine to turn Kidman’s children against her.
“It was more than implied….[Kidman] was somebody that they shouldn't open up with, they shouldn't communicate with, and they shouldn't spend much time with,” said Rathbun in an interview airing Thursday, July 17 at 10pm/9c on NBC's Rock Center with Brian Williams.
Rathbun said he spent countless hours working with Cruise at the church’s celebrity center in California starting in late 2001. He said he was conducting counseling sessions with Cruise that the church calls "auditing.”
“[Cruise] and I were intensively at it, you know, auditing several hours a day over several months,” he said.
When Cruise’s children were with their father at the church, they were often in the hands of the Church of Scientology staff, according to Rathbun.
“And they were being indoctrinated, and they were reporting to Tom on how that was going in my presence,” Rathbun said.
Rathbun claims church officials suggested to Cruise and Kidman’s children, then six and nine years old, that their mother was a “suppressive person,” which the church’s website, Scientology.org, defines as “a person who seeks to suppress other people in their vicinity.”
“A Suppressive Person will goof up or vilify any effort to help anybody and particularly knife with violence anything calculated to make human beings more powerful or more intelligent. The "suppressive person" is also known as the "anti-social personality." Within this category one finds Napoleon, Hitler, the unrepentant killer and the drug lord,” according to the official Church of Scientology's website, Scientology.org.
Rathbun said the Church of Scientology closely monitors the communication of high profile members and orders members to sever ties with suppressive people, particularly those who are critical of the church.
“That person could be your son, it could be your daughter, it could be your father, it could be your mother. It doesn't matter,” Rathbun said.
Rathbun said these policies came into play with regards to Kidman’s children, Conner and Isabella. “They were being steered toward and indoctrinated toward coming to the conclusion that Nicole was a suppressive person,” he said.
The Church of Scientology has denied that any such conversations with Kidman’s children took place. It has said that it has no policy that requires members to sever ties with relatives who do not believe in the religion. On the church's website, Scientology.org, it says that, "A Scientologist can have trouble making spiritual progress in his auditing or training if he is connected to someone who is suppressive...[and] as a last resort, when all attempts to handle have failed, one 'disconnects' from or stops communicating with the person."
The church declined to comment on the divorce of Cruise and Holmes, saying it would be “inappropriate.”
Kidman’s publicist did not respond to requests for comment on this story. A representative for Cruise told Rock Center that Rathbun is not a reliable source.
"He is a bitter ex-Scientologist who spends most of his time attacking Scientology and using Tom Cruise's name to get attention for his bigoted diatribe. If he "audited" Mr. Cruise, he is violating the privilege of that position by discussing it," said Bert Fields, Cruise's representative.
Of the Church of Scientology's role in influencing Kidman and Cruise's children, Fields said, "It is absolutely false that Mr. Cruise, or anyone else to his knowledge, did or said anything to lessen Connor and Bella's communication or relationship with their mother. On the contrary, Mr. Cruise did all he could to encourage that relationship."
In a letter to NBC News, Gary Soter, an attorney for the Church of Scientology, wrote that Rathbun is an unreliable source and a liar. Soter described Rathbun as “a defrocked ex-communicated apostate.”
Soter wrote that Rathbun is a self-promoter who is “shamelessly” exploiting a tragic personal matter to forward his own anti-Scientology agenda and to profit from it.
Scientology’s online publication FreedomMag.org contains numerous allegations against Rathbun, including charges of violent and psychotic behavior.
Rathbun admits to violent behavior against other members of the church while still a member himself, but says it was part of the culture within the church, which the church denies.
One of the posts on FreedomMag.org asserts that church officials ultimately fired Rathbun from the church for bad behavior and had to “clean up his mess.”
When asked about the allegations against him, Rathbun replied, “Then why was I assigned by the Chairman of the Board to audit Tom Cruise during the last four years of my involvement at the Church of Scientology?”
Karen Russo contributed to this report.
Editor's Note: Kate Snow's full report airs Thursday, July 12 at 10pm/9c on NBC's Rock Center with Brian Williams.
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Its a scam and anyone who belongs to thar so called religion is a nut job
@Veritable:
"He invents things, then calls it fact".
You described Scientology and most religions in one phrase.
I disagree with the comment about all religion. I do agree that religion in itself is not okay. I'm a Christian, but I don't agree with strict religious practices that don't have any basis in what the bible says (i.e all of the verses that Catholics chant, etc). I do believe in the bible. It has been proven time and time again by those who wanted to disprove it, and these are extremely intelligent people, not just your average day joes.
I don't think that you can state that all other faiths are the same as Scientology. That's just stupid. Scientology was created recently that has no backing in anything, same as Mormonism. Jesus said that all other gospels are false, so I don't see how Mormons can claim that they are "Christian" if they believe in "latter day saints". Doesn't make sense. Of course, faith is faith, and sometimes there is no way to prove or disprove anything.
What hurts me the most is those who call themselves Christians and then hate on everyone else that are not "perfect". There are no perfect people, and Jesus told us to love everyone. That's what's most disheartening about religion and that's not the message that Jesus spread when he was here on earth. Those who call themselves Christians and then do away with their families who do not want to join the church are kidding themselves when they call themselves Christians.
Back to Scientology, it seems like it's for those people who want power but are not gods. Definitely a cult. And I would go so far to say the same thing about "Christians" who hate others because they are different. That's a cult, that is not faith.
"Religion is the opium of the people" (Karl Marx) It has been used for thousands of years to placate the masses suppressing revolution.
"Sure life might really suck now, what with all of that hard work and no food, paying tribute to the king etc., but just you wait. You'll get your reward in the hereafter"
Funny, no one has ever come back from the hereafter to tell us how wonderful it is.
maw
Not all religion - or all ways of practicing Christianity - are about supposed rewards of the hereafter. Jesus actually focused on the here and now, recognizing that people were really, really suffering. And he told everyone that we should quit judging each other, quit turning our backs on each other, and HELP each other, be God for each other. He told us to create Heaven on Earth not necessarily as some apocalyptic vision (he was a Jew and they didn't focus on that stuff, it took later Christians to come up with that), but as a better way of life right here and now. Made possible by simply caring about each other, and putting our differences aside. You don't need a membership, a manual, an auditing session, Mormon underwear, or a Bible to do that. But for some people, those things help. And, unfortunately, for a lot of people those things get in the way of the true messages, big time.
Scientology is the gimcrack afterbirth of second rate science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard. Actors are often referred to as "empty vessels" and this is especially true in Cruise's case. P.S. He's short, too
HAHAHA - Yup, VERY short. And he has an empty vessel between his ears.
His writing sucked soooooooo bad. Guess that's why he never got rich from it. So this "church" was the next best thing.
I wonder if the Church "ordered" or pushed Cruise into divorcing Kidman. She has said that she was blindsided by the whole thing. Maybe I am off on the time line of events, but from this guy's account it sounds like the church was trying to drive a wedge in-between Tom & the kids vs. Nicole, prior to him ever filing for a divorce.
There is a story there about what REALLY happened between Cruise and Kidman. But she is a class act and moved on with her life and has a very hunky husband and two kids with him. Good for her. I hope she writes a book someday.
The real story is, under California law, if a couple is married 10 years or longer, the wife is entitled to half the couples estate, despite a pre-nup. Remember Cruise 'tried' to claim they were not married 10 years yet, when he filed for the divorce. He lost that.
It boiled down to money...He made her pay, by taking her kids (and I suspect she was set up by Scientology, during audit sessions, to spill secretes he could use against her), so he wouldn't have to give her half his estate, she played hard ball, which she was entitled to and was awarded money. He hard balled back, gambled with the kids and the kids lost, as they went to him.
As Tom Cruise is 50, I'm sure in another couple of decades, we'll be getting the 'real' story from and ex-wife or two, maybe even one of two books from those adopted kids...
really??????lmfao...church of creeps. its not even a church. its a douche club
"Scientology - The Douche Club"! Nice!
The first rule of the Douch Club is - never talk about the Douche club......
Google RPF labor camps!!
and these are the people (Hollywood) that have so much influence on our President.
Oh, really? Do you have any facts to back up your statement?
Always some a**hole to bring up politics. Once again the PAV proves what an idiot he is!
How much does Romney pay PAV per comment?
Gee.. I don't kiddies but check the White House registry to see how often, George, Angelina, Brad, Sean, Tom, Speilberg, Hanks and the rest of Hollywood A-listers are the White House.
Remember the Kennedy's close ties with Hollywood?
Hollywood is attracted to power and politicians are attracted to Hollywood. Doesn't matter the party. Yet do remember that obama's biggest one-night fundraisers were with George Clooney and Sarah Jessica Parker. Who do you think they invited? People they met at Taco Bell?
I think I'd almost rather the President (whoever he is, whatever party he belongs to) meet with silly, egotistical Hollywood types than be constantly in the company of - and influenced by - all the CEOs and such of huge businesses. Corporate America and its lust for money without concern for you and I and our well being is far, far more dangerous than a bunch of empty-headed pretty people.
How funny anyone would try to make a president knowing Hollywood people all creepy and evil. Hmm..where did Ronald Reagan get his money and celebrity? Let's see...hmmm...Oh yeah! Hollywood!!! And that was his resume...lol.
I have a hard time believing anything the Scientology 'church' has to say. I'm sure Nicole Kidman agreed (probably signed a legal document) to not say anything negative about Scientology or her marriage and divorce with Tom. I have never heard her say anything about that marriage or details about the divorce settlement.
Last week, Conner Cruise tweeted, "Family is forever." I wonder if his version of family includes his mother. This article makes me think otherwise. The only thing worse than a child being brainwashed to avoid a parent is the other parent allowing it to happen.
What did you want her to do, Granny? Do you know she didn't try to get them? And yes, I think he was coached and brainwashed. So if a really nasty, rich, well-connected parent brainwashes kids into hating or avoiding their mother what should she do? Kidnap them? Make it public on the front page if he had threatened them or the "church" had? Unless you know the whole story perhaps entertain the idea that he was brainwashed from a very young age to think she was bad or suppressive or "other" and not to think of her as family. Mind control can be seriously offensive, and perhaps she felt that kidnapping them and going to jail for it wasn't going to help them. I have no idea, but I doubt she handed them over cheerfully.
You know Nicole should have fought for those kids. Regardless if they chose to live with daddy she is their mother and they have to respect that. She gave up on them a bit too easily. I understand why Katie wants sole custody because she saw what happened to Nicole. But I wonder if she ever encouraged the kids to acknowledge Nicole as their real mom .
Maybe Nicole did fight for them. Not much has truly been made public about that split. Also, sometimes a parent can do more damage, and alienate the kids further, by putting up too much of a fight, making things to oppositional and too much of a fight. Sometimes the best -albeit hardest - thing a parent can do is let go a little, but always be there as a steady, loving, responsible influence, and hope that eventually the kids will grow up enough to figure it out.
How do you know she didn't fight for them? Why are you assuming things you don't know?
yeah - sounds like he was a very bad person.
Maybe he got some reason and saw the light of truth. De-frocked translates to, "Well, he wouldn't do what we said any more or follow rules that hurt people or didn't make sense" many times.
The feeling I get anytime I read ANYTHING about people involved in Scientology is that of much nefarious activity. Something about Scientology seems to attract these ego-based individuals. Why is that?
My guess would be because it's trendy, expensive, and people are always searching for more, and will pay a ton of money (if they have it) to attempt to get it.
The Gov't. ought to do what they did in ' wacky ' Waco! Blow that place and all those nuts to h*ll ! This outfit is nothing but a crazy Pyramid scheme in the guise of a ' religion!
What kind of "religion" REQUIRES you to PAY to join and to receive learning materials? What kind of "religion" doesn't make its tenets, practices, beliefs, etc. freely open to the public - if they are legitimate and want to inspire more people to join, why be secretive? Why is it that Scientology seems to attract the rich and powerful - all of whom can not only afford to belong at high levels (can you say "Pharisee"...?), but who also are so easily pulled into the climate of self-focus and Narcissism that the so-called "religion" promotes?
Interesting that the group (I just can't call it a "church") decries mainstream counseling and psychology, yet apparently spends huge amounts of time counseling and psychoanalyzing its members in "auditing" sessions. Apparently it needs to control the counseling and psychoanalysis: Scientologists are Good, everyone else is messed up and should agree with us.
No wonder Nicole Kidman, Penelope Cruz (she didn't marry him, but was with him seriously for quite a while), and Katie Holmes got out. If my child was being exposed to that crap, I'd bail, too, and push for sole custody as well.
Maybe they hate psychiatry and psychology because anyone who got any legit counseling would see they were taking their money and brainwashing them...lol.
I do agree that psychiatry can suck, but saying it is totally bs isn't right either. Isn't the best way to keep your sheep believing you telling them that any mental health care professional (the ones a person would get help from after getting out of a cult) is after their money and lying, etc.?
Exactly, Ram. And it's not just psychiatric disorders either!
"Leukaemia is evidently psychosomatic in origin and at least eight cases of leukaemia had been treated successfully by Dianetics after medicine had traditionally given up. The source of leukaemia has been reported to be an engram containing the phrase ‘It turns my blood to water.’"
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Journal of Scientology," Issue 15-G, 1953
ram - that's exactly right. One of the most common things that controlling people or institutions do is also to accuse their enemy/opponent of doing the very things that they themselves do. If you brainwash people for financial gain, but accuse psychiatrists and counselors of doing that, you may create just enough confusion and fear in your prey to keep them in your clutches. I've known people who use those tactics too; accusing everyone else of doing the very things they do. It can be very, very difficult to refute and expose someone like that. Scary.
It is completely utterly obviously a CULT and all they truly care about is MONEY MONEY MONEY and i cant believe all the stupid celebrities that give money to the church so the head guy get free FREE money.. its insane... I would be the head of that CULT too if celebrities were stupid enough to give me MILLIONS of dollars lol i can tell them they will be reincarnated for that price ba hahaha. Its a CULT and its greedy. Any celeb that uses them IMO is stupid and i dont watch stuff they are on anymore.
Just can't wait to see 'ol Tom jumping around on Oprah's couch announcing who the next "true love" is.
Tom will give up custody the minute his kids are tall enough that he is no longer the center on the family basketball team.
Scientology gives me the creeps. The kids that Tom kidnapped from Nicole likewise give me the creeps. Tom gives me the creeps. I wish they'd all go away!
I wish people would stop watching this goofball's movies... he is one sick individual.
I don't even like Risky Business or Top Gun anymore. I totally can't stand the guy.
Why did she marry the nut?! Did she need the money? Now that I know who he is I don't plan to waste any time going to see his movies.
Young and totally smitten. He is very charismatic it has been said.
Charisma. Really cool guy if you are a young and impressionable girl. Even more so if you see him as a daring star and he charms and sweeps you off your feet. I have never cared for him, myself. Ick.
This signifies the sheer idiocy of Religion and I believe this one wasn't even invented until 1957.
It didn't start as a religion. They changed that and added religious symbols when they went after tax free status with the IRS.
It actually started as a joke.
"Scientology...is not a religion."
- L. Ron Hubbard, CREATION OF HUMAN ABILITY, 1954, p. 251
Yes, but when Suri is about 13 or 14 the scientologists will start harping at her and hounding her and I guarantee you, she will have nothing to do with Katie. They will tell Suri that Katie is evil. Tom & the cult wrenched Bella and Connor from Nicole and it'll happen to Suri. Mark your calendars for 8 years from now. Tom agreed to Katie's terms because he knows he'll win in the end, just like he did with Nicole. Katie had better be ready with anti-cult counseling for Suri before the scientologists start in on Suri in her teens. You guys think Suri is safe now, but she is not.
Suri looks like she has the potential of becoming a little s**t. Hope not.
In 13 or 14 years from now, Tom Cruise will be an 'older' man and Suri wont want much to do with him. Have you ever met a young teenage girl who has rich parents and no siblings? She'll have seen what he did to his 'other' kids by then...
When you reach "CLEAR" in Scientology it means that you don't have any money left. LOL
And that's only after everything...EVERYTHING... has been sucked dry:
"Advanced Courses [in Scientology] are the most valuable service on the planet. Life insurance, houses, cars, stocks, bonds, college savings, all are transitory and impermanent... There is nothing to compare with Advanced Courses. They are infinitely valuable and transcend time itself."
- L. Ron Hubbard speaking of his Operating Thetan Courses, Flag Mission Order 375
(All kidding aside though, "Clear" is extremely expensive, & running out of money doesn't necessarily achieve it. "Well, do you have any friends or relatives that own homes, insurance policies, retirement funds, etc? Let's go talk to them.")
Well, evicting space cooties is a very time-consuming process, and multiple orders of eviction have to be served on each and every one of them, and most people are covered in trillions of them. So it makes financial sense. In a way. I guess. Maybe.