By Kate Snow, Janet Klein and Dustin Stephens
Rock Center
For Barbara Latasiewicz, home was a hospital room. The Poland native, who had cleaned homes in the Chicago area for 20 years, suffered a stroke while on the job in September 2009. An ambulance took her to Adventist La Grange Memorial Hospital in Illinois.
"I was thinking that after a few days, that I'm just gonna get better," Latasiewicz told NBC’s Kate Snow through a translator in an interview airing April 25 at 9pm/8 c on Rock Center with Brian Williams.
Latasiewicz suffered paralysis on one side of her body, but eventually became well enough to leave the hospital. However, more than two years later, the 62-year-old was still in the hospital.
“She hasn’t needed to be in this acute facility for a long time,” said Richard Carroll, the hospital’s chief medical officer.
When asked about Latasiewicz’s more than two year stay at the hospital he oversees, Carroll said, “That’s really a function of how our health care system is working right now, which is it’s not working very well at all, particularly in cases like this.”
Carroll said that Latasiewicz belonged in a skilled nursing facility where she would receive a more appropriate rehabilitation, but she had no way to pay. Latasiewicz had no insurance and was an undocumented resident with no access to government safety-net programs like Medicaid. Without payment, no facility would take her.
NBC News
Barbara Latasiewicz
The end result? Latasiewicz stayed at La Grange. Her care cost the hospital $1.4 million. A skilled nursing facility would have been a fraction of the cost.
An NBC News investigation discovered that cases like Latasiewicz’s are not unusual, but the result of current health care policies and guidelines. They are known as “permanent patients” and are hidden in plain sight in hospital rooms across the country. That’s because under federal law, hospitals must treat any patient who needs emergency medical attention even if they have no way to pay. Nursing and rehab facilities are not required by law to do so. At the same time, hospitals cannot discharge a patient without a plan in place for his or her ongoing care. The result is patients stuck in the hospital in need of long-term care but with nowhere to go, large medical bills, and no way to pay – a cost that is usually covered at the hospital’s expense.
“It would be cheaper to take these patients and send them to the Ritz Carlton,” said Harvard University School of Public Health Professor Ashish Jha. “They could get room service all day, and that would be cheaper.”
Jha estimates there are tens of thousands of these patients stuck in the hospital with no clear place to go. Some stay an extra week, some months, and some like Latasiewicz even years. NBC News spoke with officials at dozens of hospitals across the country who confirmed housing patients who didn’t need to be there for extended periods.
Many patients are stuck because they have no money or insurance to pay for long-term care. Other patients may have insurance, but their medical needs are too complex for most skilled nursing facilities to accept. Then there are those in limbo at the hospital waiting sometimes for months to qualify for Medicaid. Once they’re approved, Medicaid will cover the nursing or rehab facility they need.
A spokesperson for the American Health Care Association which represents skilled nursing facilities says that the industry works with hospitals to find facilities for such hard-to-place patients.
According to data from the National Inpatient Sample database at the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, the problem of permanent patients appears to be on the rise. From 2005 to 2009, the last years for which data was available, uninsured hospital patients with no access to Medicare or Medicaid in need of long term care increased 20 percent.
NBC News
Garrick Amato
“Most of them are Americans,” Jha said. “And if they get hit by a bus, they get sick, they’re in this situation.”
Garrick Amato, 59, arrived at Banner Heart Hospital in Mesa, Ariz., after suffering a heart attack. A few days later, he was ready to leave the hospital for a rehab facility. However, Amato, who said he worked part-time at a local discount store, had no health insurance and no way to pay for his rehab.
“I guess no nursing home will take me cause I don’t have insurance,” Amato said.
Furthermore, as a single adult without dependent children, he did not qualify for Medicaid in Arizona. Amato spent most of March and much of April at the hospital. Banner Hospital eventually found charity care for him that placed him in a skilled nursing facility where he belonged.
Other patients linger in hospitals despite their best efforts to find charity care. Fatima Khydarova, a professor from Uzbekistan, has been at Maimonides Medical Center in Brooklyn, N.Y., for more than two years. Khydarova arrived there after suffering an incapacitating stroke while visiting her grandchildren in New York. While Khydarova will never walk or talk again, doctors say she does not need to be in a hospital.
NBC News
Fatima Khydarova
“In a perfect world she should be either at home with her family caring for her or in a nursing home,” Maimonides CEO and President Pamela Brier said.
Khydarova’s grandchildren said that they cannot take care of their grandmother at their mother’s small apartment and at the same time make a living to support all of them.
“I’m working, I’m working.” said granddaughter Nigina Abdullaeva who works at a doctor’s office.
Dr. Jha of Harvard University says that the costs for treating permanent patients are passed on to other consumers through higher medical bills and insurance premiums.
“The bottom line is we’re all paying for it,” Jha said.
To mitigate the cost of these patients, some hospitals have paid out of their own funds to move them to skilled nursing facilities. Once there, the hospital could pay for their care for the rest of their lives.
“Hospitals don't want to widely advertise that they will pay for your care elsewhere,” Jha said. “But in select situations, they look, and they realize, instead of spending tens of thousands of dollars to keep the patient in the hospital, it's probably cheaper for them to send them somewhere else.”
Back in Illinois, case workers at La Grange Hospital also struggled for years to find a more appropriate medical facility for Latasiewicz. They eventually found one, but it was in her native Poland.
Wiping tears away from her eyes, Latasiewicz told Kate Snow through a translator that she did not want to leave. Latasiewicz lived in the United States for 20 years and has a son and grandchildren living nearby. However, her son, Peter Latasiewicz, said he could not take his mother into the small apartment he shares with his children and another family.
“I wouldn’t be able to provide as much help and support and care for her,” Peter Latasiewicz said, “she’s got a lot of medical conditions where she requires 24/7 care.”
The hospital eventually went to court for permission to send Barbara to the medical facility in Poland.
The hospital won and on March 1, Latasiewicz boarded a flight back to her native Poland.
In Brooklyn, Khydarova, the professor from Uzbekistan, remains at Maimonides and the hospital is still working hard to find a solution for her family
“She’s going to stay in the hospital unless we can find a spot for her,” CEO Brier said, “She could stay here potentially for the rest of her life.”
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Yes, let American taxpayers pay for the long term care of everyone. I thought it was hilarious how the article stated that Poland would take care of this lady only because Poland has a social safety net, as if to say that America doesn't have a social safety net as Poland does and that's why this lady had to be sent away. NBC, America has a safety net for citizens. See Medicare and Medicaid. Does Poland have a safety net for its illegal aliens?
What's ridiculous to me is how the Obama Administration is attacking Catholic institutions through its new healthcare law and wants them to act contrary to their faith and religious beliefs to continue caring for people (to the point that they may eventually be shut down). Can you imagine the number of people who will go untreated without Catholic hospitals and charitable institutions around?
To think that these institutions should by law change their faith in order to continue caring for people is a non-starter and clearly against the free exercise of religion. Why don't you focus in on that issue NBC?
Obama is not attacking Catholic church about that...they are saying you can not deny women coverage for contraceptives...Are you going to tell a man that he can not have his blue pill to get it up...??? I think for the health of women and to make it easier for women to avoid getting pregnant then yes pay for their contraceptives...which can be pricey. What is the harm in that...???
The Catholic faith teaches that the use of contraception is morally wrong. Regardless of what you or anyone else believes about this teaching, you shouldn't expect the Church to disregard it and change its teaching to suit modern norms or popular opinion.
The free exercise of religion is not limited by modern norms, popular opinion, or public policy. The Church will not pay for contraception, abortifacents, or sterilization as Obamacare calls for because it is contrary to the faith. All forms of contraception, sterilization, and abortion have been rejected by the Church for 2,000 years and will not change.
It is not a matter of profit,morons.Hospitals have operating expenses.Staff have familys to house feed and clothe,thus need salaries.Meds and all other(food,laundry,electricity,soap,etc) arent free(nothing in life is free to those of us who live and work in real life.Hospitals can't operate w/o the ability to pay their bills.Free only means someone else is paying your way!
When my Dad was in the hospital for a shattered elbow reconstruction, they rushed him out before he even had his care completed. He required an ice circulator with 24 hour supervision for three days. Lucky it was a Memorial Day Weekend and I was at home to attend to it for him.
I guess I can't understand with the current rush to discharge patients why hospitals are having a problem like that discussed here.
Maybe it's because the people like my Dad actually HAD health insurance. If he had nothing, he'd probably still BE in the hospital -- OR the Ritz Carlton......
Yup, the system needs overhaul alright.......
I noticed they studiously avoided talking about Mexicans.
So if the cost would be much less to these hospitals if the patients got the care they needed elsewhere, why doesn't the hospital pay for it? That would make business sense. Probably because they can recover ALL the expense by charging others more. Too bad it is not good for their customers. There are obviously no market forces at work here.
So, from what i have been reading below, illegal aliens, skyrocketing health costs, calling an ambulance for a cough, etc. Bottom line, everybody is getting taken care of, including the illegal aliens. So then why did we need OBAMACARE?
Yes the health care may need fixing, but more to the point is common place solutions that just havent been enforced and/or de-regulated.
1. stop illegal immigration. If this happened, no more Free ride as with this gal in the article staying in a hospital for 2 years and cant be sent back to Poland. Or the Illegal Mexicans coming here for birth would be eliminated. ENFORCE OUR LAWS!
2, TARP
3. Eliminate the insurance requirement by state, let them sell insurance in all states.
There are more, but bottom line we are taking care of all (including illegals) in the United States already. The liberals are just trying to grab more power with Obamacare.
Things like this are happening everyday.
After the factory where my neighbors worked for 18 years was closed and both were unemployed, she found another but low paying IT job, he as a mechanical eng had a tougher time both in late 50's, he had a medical emergency, was hospitalized for weeks. They had to declare bankruptcy, as they had gone through savings and most of 401k and still found themselves in debt for 500k. How would you like to start over at 60 no credit, having gone through life savings etc.
We need single payer, everyone deserves healthcare!
Why not assign each of these patients to a Tea Party or Republican family?
That would take care of their hissy fit with Obama care.
Sounds logical to me.
You're an idiot! You are also, on Welfare most likely...you loser! You couldn't pony up a dime to help these people because you spend it on heroin...at least it would seem so since you think the way you do...
Greg— The truth hurts you people doesn't it??????
There is a right to emergency health care in the this country because of this law.
That’s because under federal law, hospitals must treat any patient who needs emergency medical attention even if they have no way to pay. Nursing and rehab facilities are not required by law to do so.
So if you don't wan to these type of situations, do one of two things.
1. Create a single payer system.
2. Eliminate the law to mandate emergency care regardless of whether they can pay.
Something needs to be done about this, the law should be changed to allow any hospital to place these patients in any skilled nursing facility, to be taken care of...
and the people to pay for it will be? YOU?
You are a dreamer and can't think your way out of a paper bag. In your world money grows on Trees, and everything is hunky dorey, and FREE...Pony up some of your cash! Oh, I forgot, you are probably on Welfare!
The law is the problem. Every time congress feels sympathy, they pass a law with unintended consequences. Problem is to have congress repeal all theses laws. In trying to protect the unhealthy they are destroying the healthy.
Oh, and by the way, who would pay for these patients going to a nursing facility, etc? think hard, you only get one answer!
I agree to that concept for citizens and that's why I want universal health care. I only agree to emergency care for illegals. I think that illegals should be deported. All of them. No citizenship for babies of illegals. Get your emergency medical care and get on the bus. If the free ride was over and our people did not provide any work or free services and food, they would stop coming here.
You know if Mexico had all these people that wanted a better life and the border was closed to them, they would change their own country. Instead of working for political change and jobs in Mexico they come here. How is anything ever going to get better in Mexico? They will never fight for a better government until they have no choice.
If the problem of the illegal aliens in this country isn't dealt with, there will be 40 million of these patients in hospitals to be dealt with in another 15 years. Most of them will have to have translators because no matter how many years they have been here, they don't bother to learn English. Instead of nursing homes when they can no longer care for themselves or work illegally, they will end up in hospitals. They will not qualify for Social Security or other federal programs because they have never paid taxes. What's going to happen to the rest of the baby boomers when the systems for taking care of them (that the baby boomer have actually paid into) get over taxed? Implosion, that's what. If something isn't done now, what do you think is going to happen? Deport the illegals and open up jobs for unemployed Americans. Close the borders before we end up with 20 or 40 million aged illegals that we cannot deport. This country is insane for letting this go on so long. The issue is not one of logistics, it is one of politics, and it is not a game.
My simple question is, we don't give this kind of care to murderers and rapists, why do we give it to people that have committed other crimes, as this lady has.
For 20 years she was an illegal alien, most likely working under the table and paying no taxes, yet now, the US taxpayers are supposed to take care of her?
Ok, fine, let the U.S. pay for one visit from Dr. Kevorkian and call it a day. I'm good with that.
Actually we do! .......Incarcerated criminals are the ONLY ones that have a right to health care BY LAW....(make that FREE health care)
Thank you Rom1 for saying what was on my mind.......
The privatization has driven up the cost in many sectors of our economy. The unregulated banks, hospitals, drug companies and the like are gouging the public through deceptive practices and price fixing. An example of this is big Pharma companies payments to manufacturers of generic drugs to delay introduction of generics is a form of price fixing which vastly increases the cost of the drug to those who need it. In addition for profit hospitals have bought up and almost completely destroyed their non-for-profit competitors who served their competitors well and kept their cost of services low. And most of the physicians have bought a share of these new for profit hospitals and care centers. Compare the cost of a cat scan in some of these countries against what is being charged here. Take a look at the cost in Germany, Switzerland, France and even Japan against charges here. The treatments are less expensive in other socialized healthcare countries because they are government regulated. And since the physicians in foreign countries are salaried, they don't order tons of unnecessary medical tests.
Hospitals are exactly like this new sick society,, they suck people like maggots and have lost all credibility in this human society of selfish greedy pigs..go abomination,,you all deserve the Hell coming to this @!$%# hole and I am going to laugh to my death when your judgement day comes..
WOW! Are you rebellious, and Angry....I guess Minions of Satan don't like the light of the truth shining on them!
Vipp,
Never said they would be able to pay back a million dollars in healthcare, but they could pay SOMETHING versus NOTHING.
No one should be mandated to pay an arbitrary amount that they may not be able to afford. Having them pay SOMETHING and then utilizing the other suggestions in my post and Doctor J's would work minor miracles. Peace.
This is why we should secure our borders and enforce immigration laws. The candy jar that you idiotic libs keep thinking is FREE, is running dry. If we didn't let people stay here illegally, then we wouldn't have the problem...It's tough luck that people aren't born here!
They belong in their own countries welfare system. Not ours!
I for one am sick of hearing all your negitave comments, you bring down the world and bring out the crazies Greg.......
With Catholic and other religious hospital operating the public has alternatives. Under Obama care these hospitals will close, next up is force the large corporate hospitals out and Obama care can develop the Government Owned and Operated facilities they are striving for. Socialism, pure and simple.
When our family member was ill he always wanted to go to the Catholic rehabilitation center or nursing facility if he had to go there. THEY kicked him out because he was too sick to rehab but too well for the nursing home or hospital, so he had to find an alternative because medicare or his supplemental were now "off the hook" and wouldn't pay! So what are people who are doing things "the right way" supposed to do when they fall in the cracks? BTW he did die a month later and we did everything we could to make him comfortable. Just wait until you or a loved one is in the situation, you'll see how messed up it can really get. There does need to be some controls, but there also needs to be some compassion also.
Say we go to a universal health-care system are we going to force doctors to treat the sick for less money than they want to? Sounds like slavery to me.
This is where hospitals are a big huge racket. You are sick, but not sick enough to stay in a hospital. They send you to a facility to 'rehab' but if you are too sick to rehab, they can kick you out, because you aren't doing 'the work'. Then it is your problem and you may pay for healthcare, but you are getting none. There does need to be an overhaul of the whole system.
1) Obamacare is a start. Say what you want, until you or a loved one has an illness deemed a pre existing condition (which can be anything) at least they can't deny you health insurance and other things that are common sense, even though some people don't want to be forced into it.
2) If the elderly can take care of themselves at home but have in home health care visits, isn't this much cheaper than staying in the hospital or even a convelecent facility?
3) What I would like to see is more reasonable home health nursing care givers. Right now this is really expensive, but if it was covered under medical insurance, it would be cheaper than a convelecent center or hospital.
4) as others have mentioned. the one thing we will all be doing is dying. that is a guarantee. So make sure you have things in place that your family can follow. If I get 6 months of life going through a treatment that is x number of thousands of dollars I would truly weight my quality of life vs the expense to my family or insurance.
5) Your elected officials have great healthcare....if they have that good of a healthcare, why can't everyone?
6) Unfortunately, not everyone has taken care of themselves because things are expensive. if everyone got a health check up once a year, you take a proactive approach to your life.
People, STOP hiring illegals to clean your houses, pull your weeds, fix your cars, etc. You may think it is a cheaper child-care solution, but you can see that in the long run, it is not. If we don't do something about the illegal immigration problem, you will end up in some really disgusting nursing home, and your nanny will reside in a hospital at your expense. There you go! You get what you pay for. Enjoy!
Always blaming the illegals. Might want to take a look in the mirror. See your face and then tell yourself if you get cancer, lose your job and then try to get health insurance - you won't be able to....and then you'll finally understand that its not about "illegals" as much as you thought.
I guess,from all these comments, it is ok to rob someone of their labor if they decide to go into healthcare. It is a job just like any other. You don't fill your tank with gas and not expect to pay or live in your apartment and not pay the rent. Healthcare is a service like any other. If you don't pay your Columbian hooker there is hell to pay. Healthcare is no more a "right" than free gas, housing or sex. All are necessary to live in our society but we think healthcare should be free. You better save your money while you work or else be nice to your kids because ultimately you have to take care of yourself.
Big Al, so you would say that, practicably speaking, if you cannot afford insurance or don't have a lot of money, you're going to die.
Is that your feeling?
We either deal with "end of life" situations in an adult conversation with all of us or this country will become broker than we already are, and this will lead to the destruction of our entire health care system. My Mom, whom I loved very much, passed away after 5 months in a nursing home, it destroyed what little money she had left. The best "patient" in a nursing home is the one who gets no visitors, happens more than you know. They become a "cash register" that will be rung as long as possible, forever if possible. It's medicaid money, or "government" money which no one, including doctors have respect for, many are leaches, sapping the system like leaches sap blood. Their is no way that we can "give" everything to "all". The numbers don't work, and they haven't for a very long time. Glad to be older, because when this tsunami hits, and it will, the young people are going to get screwed like no one has ever seen before, unless dramatic action is taken, bank on it.
Everyone has the right to live their lives as they see fit, with whatever resources they have at their disposal. You get to make the decision to procreate (another human right) and you've made one of the biggest decisions of your life if you have kids--one that affects all of us. Learn to raise healthy, happy, responsible people who don't end up screwing the rest of us. With that said, we all have the right to be charible and caring, if we choose.
Some retard Webmaster forgot to put a "Print" option on this story.
If you try to print the actual page, website times out and says "Not Responding".
So, I copied and pasted into a Word document.
Nice try, you IT idiots! I got your story anyway, despite your best efforts!
*BRAKKKKKKKKKKKKKK*
were the richest country in the world and with all the money we pay its sad how we treat the old and sick.... we will all be their one day .... they should all burn in hell
We are not the richest country in the world, that's a complete joke.
We were until we gave all our business away to other countries and let their citizens pour in here and collect every handout under the sun.