By Richard Engel
NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent
It’s what an insurance company might call “a write-off” – a place that seems beyond salvation, and certainly too expensive to fix. I’d never thought of land that way. You smash up a car, and then it’s compacted into a square and maybe even recycled. Finito. But land?
Last year, Japan’s disaster at the Fukushima nuclear power plant contaminated the land around it so badly that the area was effectively a write-off. It’s been excised from terra cognita, uninhabitable, unwanted. Today the radiation-infected area is known by a name Ray Bradbury would like: “the exclusion zone.”
With radiation detectors clipped to our white hazmat suits, we drove into this decimated pocket of our planet.
Before we could get inside, a policeman stopped our car. There are checkpoints all around the exclusion zone, which extends in a twelve-mile radius around the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant.
The people who lived in the zone left in a hurry. They had no time to pack up their homes and businesses. Only recently, and with special permission, the Japanese government has allowed former residents to return to collect family heirlooms, important documents or equipment. The former residents are only permitted to stay for a few hours. It’s a grab-and-go operation.
We joined a man who was returning to his factory to pick up expensive cutting tools he needed to manufacture electronic components. Without the machines, he can’t run his business.
The man showed the police officer at the checkpoint his identification and permission. With a polite and decisive wave, the officer let us pass. We drove into the zone.
Suburban scenes
When I first imagined the exclusion zone, I pictured a desolate open-air microwave. I thought of burned trees, scorched earth, crumbed houses. Maybe it was the name that conjured up the image of a nuclear wasteland. I had movie-fed visions of the radiation leaving me glowing. Friends, only half in jest, offered suggestions as to how I could use tin foil to protect myself and potential progeny.
But the exclusion zone didn’t look like that at all. Instead, it was a suburbs-fringed town surrounded by cattle farms. There were neat three- and four-bedroom houses on half-acre plots. There were tricycles and big-wheels on the driveways. There were swing sets in the yards. The only thing missing was people. If space travelers arrived after an extinction-level event, this is what they might find. A traffic light on the main street blinking red cautioned drivers who weren’t there to slow down.
I walked down the center of the street. It’s an odd feeling to walk down the middle of a main street, down the dotted line. I walked into a large drug store. The door was open. It was an American-style drugstore that sold everything from candy bars to razors to toilet paper. The shelves were still stocked. There were half-filled baskets in the aisles. It was silent. No people. No cash registers. No background music. Nothing.
A sushi restaurant was next door. It was locked. The menu on the front window showed the lunch special, a combo of sushi and miso soup, that was offered on the day of the explosion.
I walked into a man’s home. I opened his fridge. It was full. The food was rotten.
There was a laundromat nearby. There were carts half full of clothing in front of the washing machines.
But suddenly we heard movement. Cows, which have broken out of their enclosures, have taken over the town. They seemed more wild and aggressive than usual. The cows were led by bulls. We had to hide behind a tree as the bulls raced past, cows charging behind them. They ran so quickly I saw a cow slip on the street and crash into storefront. She scampered to her feet and joined the feral herd.
Good schools
The town is Okuma. A year ago it had a population of around 10,000. It was a fairly wealthy community, not rich but comfortable middle-class. It had some of the best schools in the area. There was a popular softball league. A lot of people worked as engineers and technicians at the nearby nuclear plant.
The radiation levels are high in Okuma, but I learned that the real danger is the dust. Don’t touch your eyes in the exclusion zone. Don’t rub your mouth. Don’t pick your nose. And never, under any circumstances, eat anything at all.
When the Fukushima plant was destroyed, billions of microscopic particles of radioactive cesium were shot into the sky like a volcano belching ash. The cesium mixed with steam into what were effectively radioactive clouds. Then, it started to snow. The snow brought the cesium to the ground.
The cesium is still all around, even though you can’t see it. It’s on the trees, on the roads and on the houses. It’s on the cows, and it’s in the cows. It’s in the wood and the dirt and the worms. Every time it rains, the cesium moves around. It’s in the water too.
We were dressed in white oversuits. They don’t do much to protect against radiation per se -- they’re not made of lead like the blankets that cover you during x-rays – they’re more like waterproof slickers. They zip up to your chin and down to your shoes, all in an effort to keep off the dust particles. The tiny cesium particles are light enough that if you stir up dust as you walk, the cesium will swirl in the air. You don’t want to breathe it in.
Deadly particles
During our trips into the zone – we went three times – we used radiation detectors to test different areas. Radiation isn’t constant. It all depends on the particles. Where they collect, there’s more radiation.
Paved surfaces generally had low levels of radiation. The wind blows off the dust from the smooth pavement. Our detectors showed that the grass and bushes had much higher concentrations. The plants grab the dust. Gullies, depressions and gutters were even worse, since the cesium tended to collect there. The feral cow dung was bad, too. I thought of all the cesium in their stomachs and intestines and throats. Don’t step in the dung in the exclusion zone.
An exclusion zone, of course, is just a line. The radiation doesn’t stop at the checkpoint. Fukushima City is just 40 miles away. With a population of about 300,000, it was never evacuated. Cesium fell on Fukushima too. But instead of abandoning the city, the government is trying to clean it up. It is a monumental task.
It is like dusting every nook and crack in a city to remove an invisible powder. So how do you even try?
A lawn buried
First, the city will hose down your roof to wash off the particles. They use high-power hoses, like the ones window washers use to reach upper floors. Then, you or a city official cuts all the leaves off all the trees around your house. Then you dig up the top two inches in your lawn, removing the grass, pebbles, topsoil, shrubs, flowers and everything. Finally, depending on where you live, the city will either collect your radioactive lawn, or you have to dig a big hole in your yard and bury all the debris there.
The process does reduce radiation levels, but residents complain it doesn’t make the radiation go away. When it rains, the water seems to find nooks that were never washed out. Particles get blown in from other areas. Particles run down hills. They run through gutters. You might wash your house, but get particles from a neighbor upwind.
I kept thinking about how hard it is to keep the dust out of my apartment. I couldn’t imagine what that would be like if I worried the dust would kill me over time. This is the procedure for a single house. Fukushima is trying to clean an entire city.
A year has passed since the worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl. The Japanese government hopes to reduce radiation in Fukushima to a level on par with other cities. But some activists say, in the meantime, all children should be evacuated from Fukushima. They’re even educating parents on how to leave. The government hopes to reclaim some parts of the exclusion zone that show low levels of radiation. Residents we spoke to thought that would be difficult, if not impossible. What’s certainly clear, however, is that Japan will be dealing with this for a long time to come. Japan is an organized, wealthy, industrial, disciplined country. It has bullet trains that always seem to run on time. Japan is struggling with a cleanup that may be impossible. Many other countries would probably fare even worse.
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Good for them for picking up the pieces and moving on. If that happened in the US - there would still be residents in the evacuated areas crying that the government didn't give them everything and of course that drug store would be completely stripped. Good to see people that still have pride and honor. Kudos to them.
The Japanese have protested about this and they are not happy- they are mad. In fact they and especially their children are getting sick. Who the heck cares about a drug store with highly contaminated items?
My point is that they are at least trying. For the most part they have moved past finger pointing and are trying to get something done about it. I have no doubt that there are issues with people getting sick and/or other issues - I am certainly not discounting that. Reasons aside for what caused the issue they are attempting to fix it.
Take a page from our own recent history books - there is still a lot of finger pointing over Katrina - and who can forget the images of residents plundering anything they could find (including big screen TV's) even though there was no power to use it. That is why I brought up the drug store being left as it was when they evacuated.
who is going to take contaminated stuff? Also, I went through the 7.1 quake in Ca. in 1989, there was no looting, no crime hardly at all, your just trying to bring your right wing nut rants onto here, thats all..have a nice day
The Japanese have not "picked up the pieces and moved on" as you so blithely assert. There are literally thousands of people still sneaking back into the exclusion zone to tend cattle, to try to keep their property in repair, and to recover personal items. The government is saddled with a huge financial burden because of having to assist all of these people --- many of then elderly. In fact the Japanese have no idea of how to even go about containing the damage (which exceeds 3 years of GDP.) The most likely idea is to build a huge wall around the area and seal it off forever. But even then, costs come into the picture quickly because for every km2 enclosed it costs about $20 billion dollars to enclose.
And you have to remember some things about the Japanese:
1) Land is precious in Japan. The idea that this land is lost forever and must be abandoned is horrible to them.
2) These are a people terrified of radiation. They went through WWII and the aftermath and lack of knowledge of the effects of radiation. Most of the world learned what it knows about the effects of radiation on the human body by watching the Japanese die and develop diseases, mostly cancer. But this is a terror to them that Americans cannot even begin to imagine.
3) These are people deeply rooted in certain areas, especially in fishing or agricultural villages. Being moved out is like being torn to shreds, with one of the most telling aspects being able to visit the graves of their ancestors.
I also agree about the looting. I live in Tuscaloosa and when we had the really bad tornado last April 27th, 16% of the city was destroyed. There were hundreds of reports of looting on the local and national news. The fact was that there were 4 instances of looting and those were all caught. The hundreds of looters, the roving gangs of rapists, the hundreds of dead bodies being hidden in secret mortuaries, the alleged loss of highly radioactive material from the local hospital, and many, many more untrue stories all came out of the furtive imaginations of the far right. They just lie for the happiness that it brings their tiny, cramped lives.
If you want to read about how awful the right can be about this, just google "Tuscaloosa looters". You will find the stories --- all untrue. And all according to an unnamed source or "my boyfriend's cousin" and all aimed at African-Am,ericans and Hispanics.
Nuclear, Ugggh/ yukk..a huge price to pay, when things wrong..
The clean up operation will not work...they just have to level it all..and just close the area off.
Hosing off houses....digging up yards...bushes...the afterlife of all this will last for at least 100 years..even at the outlying areas.
@jeesus,
Nuclear power is the most expensive way to produce power, even when things go right. Mostly this is a result of past government actions intended to spur reactor use in the 1970's and the results of the powerful (pi) electric power companies. They make it appear cost-effective by:
1) They carry less than 1% of what risk management experts would consider a minimum amount of liability insurance. This is because the utilities have lobbied Congress to reduce it time and tiome again. And who is responsible for the 99% not covered by insurance? The American taxpayer.
2) The nuclear operators do not consider the disposal of waste and spend fuel in their cost-benefit analyses. They just put it in temporary storage forever. But sooner or later that bill is going to come due and who will pay it? The American taxpayer.
3) The nuclear power industry gets huge government subsidies and loan guarantees. Who foots that bill? The American taxpayer.
If you look at the fully booked costs, both long and short-term, hydro is the cheapest power source and nuclear, by far, the most expensive.
I prefer hydro power myself - but I don't think American taxpayers are relevant to Japan's power system.
<sarcasm>You tell them Polarmatt. It's not like America, and pretty much the entire world, came together in support when 9/11 happened. It was nothing but looting and chaos. It wasn't like people were coming together donating millions and sacrificing their own lives to help their fellow human. They were all out on Fifth Avenue grabbing what they could.</sarcasm>
Nuclear power is safe. It is the greatest thing since sliced bread. America needs nuclear power more than ever, even if just to wean America off of foreign oil and politic.
Nuke accidents at Chernnoybl(sic), Fukushima, Three Mile Island, Fermi Plant, TVA, etc prove that nuclear power is safe; doesn't adversely affect the environment; government/taxpayer money rescue of the utility is feasible; and lives of residences are improved.
As as matter of fact, for the last 50 years nuclear power has given America Freedom, Liberty, and prosperity. Incredible as it sounds, it also has been a powerful anti-terrorist weapon. Everybody should have one.
The nuclear power industry is a secret blessing, a god-sent.
It baffles me that you would so quickly throw your own countrymen under the bus, Matt. Sure, the ugliness in people is quick to show in desperate times - you use the example of looting during Katrina, I'd use the example of police murdering an unarmed man in cold blood. However, the vast majority of Americans do get back on their feet and are quick to help one another - case in point is the areas devastated by tornadoes recently - people appeared from all over to help clean up and salvage what little could be saved. What a bitter, sad little life you must lead if you're unable to look at the good in people.
Ok - I can see that my earlier comments have been taken in the wrong way versus what I meant by them.
I am not painting extremist right-wing views of anything - and in all honesty I wasn't in the path of Katrina when it hit (although I am a Floridian and have been through dozens of Hurricanes) and I wasn't in TN when the twisters came whipping through destroying all in its path. So - in the light I am deeply influenced by what I see/hear from the media about what is taking place in the devastated areas.
911 was a very good example of what makes this country and that is to cast aside differences and help a person in need. I would give the shirt off my back if there is a need to do so.
Now, as for the original reason for the postings...I am just trying to express an opinion that through this disaster the Japanese people seem to be coming together to get this fixed (if it is possible). Again - I am writing about what I see/hear from the media. This has nothing to do with who is at fault or will be at fault.
In 500 years, it'll be okay for everyone to move back in.
@ Chris,
I'm in environmental consultanting field and actually support nuclear power. In fact, I think we should be building many more plants on top of expanding the ones that are currently active.
Yes, it's very expensive, but the only alternatives are oil and coal. Wind and solar are nowhere near what would be considered a "base' power supply. "Clean" coal is simply a term the industry coined, similar to how the sugar industry wants to change high fructose corn syrup to "corn sugar". And dont get me started on oil.
Yes, the potential for a major incident is there, but look at what we're doing in the meantime, just dumping millions more pounds of carbon into the air every year. And each year that goes by the climate is getting drastically more sporadic. If you dont believe that climate is changing it's a moot point though.
Frigging right. We don't need to be importing the 50% of the oil we get from that terrible foreign country Canada. The U.S has -never- experienced earthquakes massive enough to destroy entire cities or make land sink and the Mississippi River run -backwards- for a day or so to fill those sink holes in thereby creating lakes that cover frigging miles. Hell, even if we did have such things we build nuke plants that could withstand being sunk in a hole and filled with water just like frigging Fukushima. Idjits abound. lol
In addition to what DMan said,
How are Hiroshima and Nagasaki doing?
As far as I know there are people living there. So to say that the land is lost forever is completely bogus. It is lost for awhile. But a majority of the land will recover and be inhabitable again.
I japan, people were able to collect supplies and what not, without being called "looters". People there are not all me, me, me, mine, mine, mine. In the states, people were being shot at and called looters for trying to find drinkable water.
Nuclear power is a disaster waiting to happen. There is no such thing as fail safe. Its not possible to make a completely safe reactor.
Nuclear is a disaster that could happen, Coal/oil is a disaster happening right now. Pick your poison. No one wants to have nuclear energy be the final energy solution. But in the meantime, it should be built up to reduce the pollution generated from coal and oil.
They had a 9.0 earthquake.
20,000 people died because they built on a coastline that has major tsunamis.
So far, 1 person has died from the Nuclear Plants.
40 year old nuclear plants that were designed 50 years ago. They didn't even have electronic calculators back then.
And the exclusion zone is only 12 miles just a year out. Given a few more years, the exclusion zone will be limited to the plant itself.
Notice they never said what levels of radiation they found.
Think about this: if I told you about a place in America with DOUBLE the radiation of other places here, what would you think?
Well, Denver has double the radiation of Philidelphia.
As for actual risks - there is no way to make a completely safe elevator, car, bathtub, stairs, sidewalk, street, - etc.
Your drive to the store to get a slurpee exceeds the danger to you of nuclear power.
So really, the hype is over, there is simply not much story left. And the media is trying to milk a few more ads out of this. 5 years out it will be a non-story because the damage simply was not that great.
Same thing with the BP spill.
They hype was greatest when it was all speculation about what might happen. Now that we have the facts, it's not very impressive.
Oh, and they are rebuilding right along the coast in Japan again. So if 20,000 deaths didn't change their behavior, then why should we worry much about the nuclear plants that have killed 1 person?
There are alternatives that are safe, but are less profitable. Like wind and solar and geothermal energy, those dont threaten to pollute the land or the air. None will create a death zone if something goes wrong.
@Ryan, Chernobyl happened in the 80's, the exclusion zone there has spread out further, as the radiation spreads out. It will be polluted for another 940 years approximately. Japan has the same problem, it will grow over time, not reduce.
In regards to improving nuclear safety, I think that we need to be proactive and open new reactors to replace existing ones and take emergencies into account. I posted on another thread a while back about 'sinking' the reactors into the earth and essentially pre-sealing them so that if there were an accident, up to and including a meltdown, then you would only have to close the facility- not the county. This approach would be astronomical in cost. though.
On a different note, just as bohnmann stated, people have moved into Hiroshima and Nagasaki (there is a monument in the center of Hiroshima [I think], right below where the bomb blew [air burst]). People are allowed in Chernobyl for short periods. If anyone knows or can point me to a comprehensive (and easy-to-understand) source regarding different levels of radiation, harmful effects, rate of decay, and how long it would take for something like this to subside (environmentally safe) for various elements (uranium, plutonium, cesium, etc.) please post as I'm interested in this research for a book. Thanks.
This is the reality of Nuclear power. This diaster will continue to poison for another 1000 years. It will sicken but not kill, countless more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster
The bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were Air Bursts, there was no significant fall out from the explosions. Because they were air bursts the contamination was mainly from gamma and neutron radiation, which caused a significant amount of initial radiation levels, but dissipated very quickly, and could be entered in a few days. There was a significant amount of fallout from the nuclear meltdown in Japan which causes contamination to last years.
A matter of fact,
I don't know of any first hand sources and I don't usually suggest using wikipedia, but if you look up list of elements by stability of isotopes. Click on an element like cesium (caesium) You can see isotopes in the bottom right table shows the half life (rate of decay) type of particle, etc. If the element is particularly radioactive like plutonium, you can see in the article some of the "harmful effects". Those items are usually linked to other sources.
Good luck on the book.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elements_by_stability_of_isotopes
I'm also surprised the drugstore wasn't looted. It would certainly be in the U.S. So what if it's contaminated? An addict is an addict. They generally don't look out for their health at the expense of a fix. And in sealed containers they probably wouldn't be exposed to much radiation (in the form of dust, anyway).
@dman,
I am not as anti-nuclear as it might sound. But there are major issues that are being ignored that could make it several ordinals of magnitude safer.
1) The first issue is that if standardized design. France had had a great deal of success with this. Standard designs that are scalable allow problems found in one reactor to be fixed proactively in all others. This actually improves safety over time. Unfortunately, standardized designs are not what companies like Toshiba and GE are interested in. They see it as anti-competitive.
2) The waste storage issue simply has to be resolved. It is a cost and a danger from so many different angles that it must be fixed before we can move on with nuclear power. And this cost should be borne 100% by the power producers and not the taxpayer.
3) We need to make sure that nuclear power plant operators carry liability insurance sufficient to cover their risk without dumping it on the American taxpayer. For those who support nuclear power --- if the risk of incidents is so low, why have power plant operators (such as Southern Companies) spent so many millions lobbying Congress to get liability insurance requirements reduced to the point of non-existence.
I have had a long interest in nuclear safety since the nearby "incident" at Brown's Ferry. This was arguably the closest that the US has come to a Fukushima-type meltdown --- considerably worse than the incident at Three Mile Island. A good friend of mine was the safety officer there. And I have lived a good portion of my life in the radiation footprint of that severely dysfunctional powerplant.
There are plenty of people who point to the fact that only a handful of people have died from radiation exposure associated with nuclear power --- only several hundred worldwide. But risk management people consider not only the absolute risk of an event happening, but also the amount of damage when an incident does happen. If you look at the damage numbers from Fukushima, they exceed the government's ability to even compensate the victims because TEPCO had virtually no liability insurance.
It isn't any thing like Chernobyl.
Those were in total meltdown. There were literally fires burning the graphite they used in those designs.
In Japan, they simply overheated, while still in a water bath.
Yes, it's bad.
But not even on the same page. We are talking about thousands of times less contamination. And it is only a 12 mile zone now - that decreases over time - unless the Gov't lies in the first place - we are talking about Russia - so any increase in size of the exclusion zone is not due to a physical reason, but political ones.
Look, this is the same media that was so completely wrong about the BP spill.
They have an incentive to lie or hide the truth. They can't sell papers/ads on the facts, they sell them on fear or emotion.
And they can't dispute that only 1 person died due to the nuclear plants vs. the 20,000 due to poor city planning/zoning.
Remember when nuclear generated electricity was;
Clean
Safe
Too cheap to meter ?
It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now.
Ryan, they didn't simply overheat, while still in a "water bath" There were partial meltdowns in three of the six reactors and in one of the spent fuel pools. Chernobyl was a "larger disaster" because the explosion from the meltdown destroyed the containment dome.
raddave - 900 mile exclusion zone 20 years after Chernobyl, 12 mile exclusion zone 1 year after the Earthquake in Japan.
I know a 900 x 900 area is 810,000 sq miles.
vs a 12 x 12 area is 144 square miles if you want to compare the two.
Or 5625 times as much area.
Now I'm not saying that Chernobyl is like 5600 Fukushimas - It is far more than that since there are heavily contaminated areas near Chernobyl, while that level of contamination is only at the plant in Japan, a very small area.
In the US, no one outside of a Uranium mine has ever died due to nuclear power. In Japan, it is one person.
Or, the amount of people that die daily due to bathtubs or stairs. Yes, 40 years, 1 death in the US and Japan.
People simply are irrational. They think airplanes are more dangerous than cars.
It's OK, we all do. But we can't decide policy based on irrational fear.
However, the media has no problem using those fears to sell ads.
Hence why there are no BP spill stories anymore. Seafood harvests are up, and it is testing safe. The beaches are clean - there are no dead animals to show (there were very few in even the begginning). So they move on.
They are not going to run stories about how wrong they were. The will never do a side by side comparison of what they wrote vs. what actually happened.
And just like how in this article they never mention what the radiation readings were, you know they simply didn't want someone pointing out that the readings are low, or are equivalent to smoking or xrays or whatever.
you are an idiot. if your current town had a nuclear meltdown you and your family would have one thing on your mind. get out of dodge. the people of this seacoast area are different form any other area in the world. we are all different. but when the @!$%# hits the fan you get out of town and worry about your insulin later. that is the addict you are talking about isn't it?
do you know what kind of addiction rates they have in japan? how about that little area of japan. where is your mind at? the valium or the oxy? maybe they don't have that problem! maybe they don't carry those drugs at their local pharmacy. maybe they do, but do you know anything about it. or are you basing it on your limited view of the world and projecting the problems you or yours would need at the time of the most important decision making of their lives. there is a lot of assumpion in your post. maybe Rush L could help you out here? assumptions from a standpoint you have NO information to back up your statement. maybe they were watching CNN and were fleeing for their lives?
Ryan, the exclusion zone for Chernobyl is only 20 Km and never was 900 miles. To say that no one in the U.S from nuclear power is a lie, there have been significant increases in cancers due to Three Mile Island.
raddave
The Nuclear core at Chernobyl melted into an amorphous blob and experienced a Nuclear Excursion that resulted in a low energy Nuclear Yield. The yield was approximately equivalent to 10 tons of TNT. This explosion blew the roof off of the containment building and blew part of the core into the atmosphere. Plutonium from the core has been found as far away as Sweden.
Calling the Chernobyl Reactor building a "Containment" building is being very generous. 6" thick concrete roof vs 4 foot thick concrete with 2" Steel Plate lining in the US.
radave - sorry, I quoted a post against nuclear power above on the Chernobyl Exclusion zone.
As for 3 mile island - none of that is documented. Trust me, they would sue if it was. So they don't have enough proof to prove with the preponderance of the evidence that the tiny release had any effect.
I guess you are going to take the side of the minority of the evidence.
That's OK, you can simply use fear instead of evidence.
I simply cannot believe that Chernobyl has the same size exclusion zone.
OK - I just checked out BBC, and it looks like 15 times more radiation was released from Chernobyl
BUT
nearly all of the radiation released from Chernobyl was into the air, while nearly all of the radiation released from Fukushima went into the ocean.
SO you simply cannot expect anything like the same contamination of land.
The last thing I read was about how the contaminated area in Japan will be limited to the area immediately (less than one mile) around the plant itself in 5 years.
Luckily, we are all very tolerant to radiation. It's in much of what we eat, naturally. And of course it comes in from space all the time.
That's why people in Denver get twice the radiation exposure every year vs. someone in Philidelphia.
Thankfully the French filtration devices (have you seen how massive those things are? Like football fields worth) have been working and the new cooling loop has been holding up for 9 months. Cold shutdown is now eminent.
Good luck living life without risk. It must be difficult not being able to use bathtubs, stairs, cars, planes, trains, elevators, escalators, or ladders - all of which are FAR more dangerous than nuclear power - even including Chernobyl - which has killed nearly one hundred people - and sickend around 1000.
Still, that pales in comparison to bathtubs.
I wonder what they are going to do to the feral cows? Study them? Kill them? Serve them at Mc Donalds?
They won't even have to irradiate the meat.
rich-3241763: Re #1.1: "In fact they and especially their children are getting sick." Who is getting sick? Which children? This is the first I've heard of it. Can you cite any sources?
I was wrong it is a 30km radius exclusion zone for Chernobyl. The release from Fukishima was into the air as well, wind currents carried over the water, where Chernobyl the winds carried contamination over land.
The radius has changed over time at Chernobyl. That's why there's differing numbers, depending how long ago the source was updated. It is growing as the pollution spreads out. It will continue to pollute the entire planet for another 1000 years, along with every other contaminated area out there.
One radioactive particle can irradiate another particle (of anything, dust, whatever) that isnt radioactive, by being close enough to it. Like the way a magnet can make something else metal, magnetic, by being next to it for awhile. So the number of irradiated particles are always growing. Thats how it spreads and actually grows.
Cancer rates have skyrocketed all over the world, ever since nuclear testing first started in the 40's. And its higher the closer you get to areas where there's been a release into the environment. Cancer rates have gone up, up, up. Way above the pre-nuclear era. What is interesting is the numbers are higher per capita, the closer to an accident or a test zone you get. The danger has been hushed up for decades because "Nuclear" is something the government wants to use, regardless of the risks. You all are expendable according to the government, don't you know.
Hell, it even killed John Wayne, where its commonly acknowledged that he got poisoned while filming "The Conqueror". Which was filmed near a nuclear test zone in Utah. Most of the people in that film died of Cancer. Both crew and stars alike. Radiation is an equal opportunity killer.
One epic disaster could poison the planet and kill us all. The risk may be remote, but is the risk worth it? I dont think so. Not when theres alternatives, that are just as good, just not as profitable.
Freedom4Everyone
You've been watching too many Sci-Fi Movies:
Neutrons are high-speed nuclear particles that have an exceptional ability to penetrate other materials. Of the five types of ionizing radiation discussed here, neutrons are the only one that can make objects radioactive. This process, called neutron activation, produces many of the radioactive sources that are used in medical, academic, and industrial applications (including oil exploration).
http://www.nrc.gov/about-nrc/radiation/health-effects/radiation-basics.html
I would like to know the source of these neutrons that you proclaim are making other particles radioactive?
raddave
Ah Dave, I was starting to repect you then you come out with a wackadoodle statement like that! Oh man please say it ain't so.
EVERY claim that the teeny tiny release of radioactive steam from Three Mile Island caused any harm to anyone or anything has been debunked years ago.
Freedom4Everyone
You've been watching too many Sci-Fi Movies:
Neutrons are high-speed nuclear particles that have an exceptional ability to penetrate other materials. Of the five types of ionizing radiation discussed here, neutrons are the only one that can make objects radioactive. This process, called neutron activation, produces many of the radioactive sources that are used in medical, academic, and industrial applications (including oil exploration).
http://www.nrc.gov/about-nrc/radiation/health-effects/radiation-basics.html
I would like to know the source of these neutrons that you proclaim are making other particles radioactive?
Hears Crickets Chirping...................
raddave
Ah Dave, I was starting to repect you then you come out with a wackadoodle statement like that! Oh man please say it ain't so.
EVERY claim that the teeny tiny release of radioactive steam from Three Mile Island caused any harm to anyone or anything has been debunked years ago.
Hears Crickets Chirping...................
well for the couple of guys saying the right wingers are lying. well duh. obiously this stuff doesnt happen like that. its commen sence. they need it for thier poltics. they cant ever just be straight up and admit who they are and instead make excuses. want to hear realistic comments and not some right wing trolls? then dont read msn or yahoo or these comments. i just read the republicans comments for enteraintment, but obiously know they will lie and be hyprocrites and i got to admit, no1 does it better then them at being hyprocrites. lmao these guys even come up with illegal immigration excuse to deport and jail brown ppl and act all serious. i dont think i ever heard republicans even try to tell the truth. i dont understand sometimes why they do that.
I couldn't disagree more. Nuclear power as with health care should not be a for-profit industry. When you have a private enterprise, the owners will always cut corners in an attempt to increase profits. Perhaps you're not aware of how the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) keeps lowering the standards that these plants have to follow, rather than force them to be compliant with original standards. They still haven't figured out what they should do with the spent fuel, nobody wants it in their back yard. There certainly are other issues as well; possible earthquakes, rising sea levels, disruption of the power grid caused by CME's or something else. What would we do if suddenly the power of the whole US went out? It would take years to restore it. It seems to me that humans have a real problem considering their actions on future generations and anticipating the long term effects of our actions.
We have shown time and again that we can't use this power source responsibly. I'd rather take our chances with fossil fuels; or better yet let's develop another source of power. After all, we're the smartest species on the planet, right? (sarcasm) It's just a matter of time before we have another accident here.
The difference in nuclear power in Japan and America is that in Japan they tried to save the reactors and didn't resort to salt water before it got critical. If you read about 3 mile island thecompany took action quickly and filled the reactor up with concrete. In the united States it is safety before profits.
I would like to also respond about the difference between the people over here and in Japan. I can't say anything about the Japanese because I am not there. I was in the New Orleans area for one year after Katrina and I cannot tell you how many times I had my ass chewed off because they had to take off the propane tanks themselves and go get them filled. I am not saying that everybody in the area was lazy but 75% that I meet was and it was about even in all races. Now this doesn't have anything to do with right or left as I don't even know which side I stand on.
It is criminal that Japan has not evacuated.
We really live on a planet that is much, much too small for nuclear power. An accident is NOT negligible nor it containable . An accident is a international disaster
People are already getting sick and the young are so vulnerable to this contamination
rich-3241763
What are you talking about, your statement proves you have no idea about which you speak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG!!!!!!!!!! Look out the SKY IS FALLING, WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's get some facts straight and stop with the little girl hysteria, Japan has a total land mass of 145,840 square miles. If we calculate the area of Japan that is uninhabitable for now we get Area = Pi r squared = 3.14 x 36 = 94 square miles 1/2 of which is in the water so we have 47 square miles on land.
That leaves 145,793 square miles that is not contaminated!
Why in the world would you evacuate Japan?????????? What kind of nonsense is that????????
And just who is getting sick? How many are getting sick from radiation and how many from hysteria?
The Current Radiation Level in Japan
Except for the proximate areas near the nuclear power plants, there is no dangerous level of radiation detected in Japan. Tokyo is NOT within radiation contamination concern area, located over 200km (124 miles) away from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant facilities. The radiation level in Tokyo is similar to that of New York City. The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) and other international organizations confirm that the radiation level in the atmosphere is within a reasonable safety level to human health.
Read from REAL sources NOT biased "It's the end of all life on earth" sites:
http://www.japantravelinfo.com/news/news_item.php?newsid=431
you actually get your information off a Japanese travel site?
and as the article states there are many who do question that they have not evacuated. By how far is disputed, but not that they should have done much more evacuation. 1/3 of a thousand kids tested in Japan now have a cyst in their lymph glands. yes, they are getting sick
and you do know that Japan has CONTINUALLY raised its safe levels just so they can say it is safe?
Rich - I want to be on your side. I agree that it is inane to believe information regarding the extent of radiation coverage that is posted on a travel website. However, your statements would carry a lot more meaning if you cited your source.
What is a "crumbed" house? Ahhh! Top notch MSNBC reporting and editing rears its ugly head again.
rich-3241763
Are you just on here to cause hysteria among the weak minded or are you just bored? If you would just take the time to click on the links embedded in the article you could find out that Toyko, as of today, has a background radiation level of .054 microsieverts/hr. THATS THE SAME RADIATION LEVELS AS IN NEW YORK CITY!
You got any links to verify that and how many of these kids had cysts before the radiation?
Does not mean that people have been exposed to those levels. And this was specifically done to allow the Fukushima Plant workers to legally stay longer in the plant to work and the workers agreed to this.
http://www.japantravelinfo.com/news/news_item.php?newsid=447
yea i agree! with their technology they should have evacuated earth years ago and converted mars atmosphere and be living there right? just where would "japan" go?
haha, dont worry though, they'd be SURE and tell you if it was dangerous!
lets build loads more, in all YOUR guys states mmkay? how bout texas or arizona?
believerof
Everyone would be better served if they would worry more about Radon gas in their home rather than the Radiation levels in Japan.
http://news.consumerreports.org/home/2008/01/radon.html
i cant post links here but the site -exksf- reports from Japanese government and written in a japanese paper
ex-skf.blogspot.com/2012/01/1117-children-over-30-of-3739-tested.html
"Total number of children tested: 3765
No. of children found with lumps 5.1 millimeters and larger: 26 (0.7% of total)
No. of children found with lumps smaller than 5.1 millimeters: 1117 (29.7% of total"
by the way pediatricians say they have only HEARD of one or two children who ever had a cyst in the thyroid before.
This is extremely rare
one last word-look up Thyroid neoplasm on wiki these were tests on kids under 18. Wiki talks about finding these on kids- and it is not good
something even creepier is the Japanese govt isnt testing to see if they are benign or not- so much for the govt. they basically have written off these kids
this happened in Chernobyl
rich, my wife was a child in Bulgaria when Chernobyl happened, and drank contaminated milk. She has cysts in her thyroid and has been diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis.
"The problem with allowing residents to come in and "Grab whatever they want" is that most of those things are contaminated. What is the point in having and exclusion zone if you bring the contaminated material out? Granted, some items can be decontaminated such as tools and such but I imagine it would not be economically feasible to presume that the government will decontaminate just anything." <-- Thats what the Japanese is doing to a city of 300K 40 miles away according to the article. If it can be done to everything in that city, why can't anything and everything that can be decontaminated in the exclusion zone be done? There are still vehicles in that zone, so again, if that city can have its vehicles decontaminated, why not this area? Seems sorta stupid to have decontamination of one area and not the other on everything. Basically if one area is bad to live in, then an area 40 miles away is also bad, why is only an 11 mile radius not safe, but an area 40 miles away ok, even though they have to spend millions(maybe billions) to decontaminate? Seems they should make the exclusion zone larger(like maybe 50 miles) to be safe.
I am amazed how the MSM is not making the lies as big of a deal like Chernobyl was. Russia was VILIFIED in the press for lying about Chernobyl after it and putting out lies, yet because Japan is "friendly" they get away with lying in the press, no such vilification(like the Soviets got) comes. Its swept under the rug because Japan is good, russia was bad
Mike, the Soviets were vilified for not evacuating its residents until two days after the explosion. Trying to deny that the event occurred, didn't announce that it had occurred. In fact, it wasn't until alarms went off at a nuclear facility in Sweden did the Soviets acknowledge the "incident." They downplayed the amount of radiation that was released, and did not inform its own people or other countries the true amount for years. My wife, who grew up in Bulgaria still remembers how the government there said no contamination reached there and that all food was safe to eat and drink.
major tod. do you know these are facts that you are touting? or is this what you were told the facts are. do we know the real facts? can we extrapolate from information that is not factual. or maybe the jury is still out on this type of disaster. we don't know anything. but we do know that material is landing on the beaches in hawaii every day and that is pretty far away. is it out of thinking that we are being lied to every day about most things. or to you believe the Gov tells us the truth. i would be very afraid if i lived in Japan. and the people there that can afford to leave are doing just that. that is a statistic that can be proved!
rich-3241763 works for Japanese government.
bob-2445440
I'm assuming you are talking to me but it's Major Tom not Major Tod LOL.
Anyway, look here at the present day radiation levels in Major Japanese Citys:
http://www.japantravelinfo.com/news/news_item.php?newsid=447
And you will see Toyko is .054 microsieverts
Go here and find the background radiation levels for New York City:
http://digistar.com/boston/
Look at the graph at the bottom of the page for micro rem per hour and it averages out to approximately 9.5 micro rem per hour that equates to .095 microsieverts per hour so Tokyo at .054 microsieverts per hour actually has less background radiation than New York City.
I was a Nuclear Weapons Specialist in the Navy so I know something about radiation and it's effects. Knowing how something works helps you to better understand what other people are posting.
If people want to be irrational so be it, but just because people are irrational doesn't make it a "Real" problem. I have the feeling that educated people are not going anywhere.
Rich
Then you post:
So, which is it? cyst in their lymph glands? or cyst in the thyroid?
Rich
Thyroid nodules, or lumps, are quite common, occurring in more than 50% of the world's population. Moreover, the likelihood of developing a thyroid nodule increases with age and in part represents the aging process of the thyroid gland.
http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/thyroid/nodules.html
Major tom- who works w/the nuke industry in their feel good division-
"...the likelihood of developing a thyroid nodule increases with age and in part represents the aging process of the thyroid gland."
Major-these are NOT old people they are not older kids. all are under 18. this is NOT common for young children at all. so your getting old theory is moot
try using your brain instead of our wallet
rich-3241763
I'm an Electrical Engineer and could care less about the Nuclear Energy Industry except that they keep a close eye on their safety regulations and their required maintenance.
The PROBLEM with the report you linked to is ENORMOUS and if you would use your brain you would understand it.
Where is the CONTROL GROUP? With no control group your findings will be and are garbage. What percentage of children in the US have nodules on their thyroid and have no symptoms? Do you know this answer? When do we start getting nodules on our thyroid? You have not asked the critical questions, such as why did the Doctors think nothing of kids with a 5.1 mm or less size nodule.
Also, do you know how big 5 mm is? It is less than .2 inches, that's about the size of a BB.
To learn more about the ongoing nuclear disaster in Japan , go to ENENEWS or Fukushima Diary.
The original article is here: http://www.pref.fukushima.jp/imu/kenkoukanri/240125shiryou.pdf. I have not had time to read it yet, but shall in 24 hours or so. The newspaper report on the report (which does not seem to add any information) is here: http://www.minpo.jp/view.php?pageId=4107&blockId=9927368&newsMode=article. Note that both the original report and the newspaper report are 7 weeks old as I write this.
lokay5
I was wondering when the master spell checker would log in and post links to dubious websites, welcome lokay5 ;-) I have missed your humorous take on this.
I read the report at http://www.pref.fukushima.jp/imu/kenkoukanri/240125shiryou.pdf; unfortunately, it contains no information comparing the control group (if there was one) with the "experimental" group. Selection was not random. Most of the report concern testing that was (at the time the report was written) going to take place.
Meanwhile, there's been no bug coverage of this in the media in Japan that I've seen.
WhenceOneWonders
Yep, "No control group" just @!$%#ing brillant.
I apologize for agreement ("concerns," not "concern") and typing mistakes ("big," not "bug") in #2.24.
I can't believe that rich meant the entire country of Japan should be evacuated. If he did, that's indefensible overreaction. I too get tired of the fear mongering that is passed off as news.
But I'm not exactly sure what Major Tom is questioning here either. There is a very large area in a small, densely populated country (where every square inch of real estate is prized) that all agree is, and will be for a long time, uninhabitable. No, I don't need a 'link' for that.
A circle with a radius of 12 miles is 24 miles wide, and in a country that needs all the room it has, even if half of that circle is ocean, there has to be a very compelling reason why everyone has to be kept away. The pressure to re-take the land has to be enormous, and the moment it can be people will be back there.
You can't pretend this is anything but a bad mess. It is a bg piece of land that was polluted enormously. We can't afford to let this happen with regularity, so what are you saying about the "little girl hysteria"?
Yes, but wait!!!
Why were all of Japan not evacuated last time they had 2 nuclear "disasters" within a few month, and possibly that is why the Japan children still today have problems coming from/moving from all over Japan, I mean it is pretty bad to have radiation spread out like that (with a big bang) and for the next few thousand years being able to detect those bomb explosions!--Possibly that was another type of God's will?
But I guess we need to actually see a Chernobyl or a few more bombs go of on the "test sites" watching with just sunglasses here to understand why we have # 3 cancer illness on the globe.
Yes, I do know a lot about the actual molecules!!
It is very interesting that Southern Companies has been desparately hiding the fact that it is Toshiba who designed these two reactors. (Toshiba bought and absorbed Westinghouse some time ago.) The reactors being built in Georgia would could not be legally built in Japan BEFORE their disaster. Since the disaaster Toshiba has shut down all its nuclear design and production operations in Japan, both under the Toshiba and Westinghouse names.
There is less than 1% of the necessary liability insurance available to cover the two new reactors and the two existing reactors should there be a severe incident. The American taxpayers are solidly on the hook, just as the Japanese taxpayers are, for any accident or design flaw.
Chris,
All reactors were built before 1978. GE was acquired by Toshiba in 2006. So these are a Westinghouse design reactors.
No --- the two are old reactors of Westinghouse PWR design. The two new ones are just licensed to be built. They are Toshiba designs based on pre-1978 WESTINGHOUSE designs that do not meet current Japanese safety requirements, let alone those that will undoubtedly go into effect before Japan ever builds a new reactor. Toshiba acquired WESTINGHOUSE in 2006, not GE. Because of the reaction to the Japanese disaster, the value of Toshiba-Westinghouse Nuclear LLC fell so low that Toshiba acquired the outstanding 20% of shares from Shaw Group in Sept 2011. The Shaw stock rose significantly and Toshiba fell dramatically on the news. In fact, the stock drop in Toshiba was so bad that many analysts do not believe that Toshiba can survive long term unless it can unload many of its diversified holdings, Toshiba-Westinghouse Nuclear the first among them.
I wish people would do at least a little bit of research before posting stuff that is so easily verified as wrong. It also helps to read the while article before spouting off.
I did I am only stating that these are a Westinghouse design and they are. All were built before 1978 the facts stand. This is a simple search away which I just checked again.
Chris-749391
You make some good points but let's do some FACT checking:
1. Number of people who have died due to radiation exposure in any Commercial Nuclear Power Plant in the US in the last 30 years............ ZERO!
2. Number of people who have been killed in the US in the last 30 years in Gas and Oil Industry related accidents......... needless to say the number is in the thousands. How many miles of US coastline have been polluted by Oil Spills?
3. Number of people who have been killed in the US in the last 30 years in the coal related accidents, mine explosions, black lung disease, coal ash dams, etc, etc........... again the number is in the thousands and thousands of acres of land polluted so bad no one can live there.
How many people have died due to the Fukushima accident............ ZERO! and more land has been polluted in the US by coal mining by-products than is contaminated in Japan by radiation.
Yeah, that big bad Nuclear Boogeyman is going to get you if you don't watch out.
Cows you can eat in the dark...YUM YUMMY.
Reading this article reminds me of that show "Life after People". Of what happens to our homes, animals and all we have built up when we are no longer there.
Kind of scarey when you think about it.
@jungle jim....funny comment, but interesting topic.
I wonder if anyone is doing a study on these feral cows. It's been a year since the disaster, and these cows are alive, and eating grass that is dusted with fallout.
I wonder how they are affected, if they show signs of radiation sickness..(although they sound pretty healthy to me...chasing people)
I have been wondering about this ever since I read an article the other day, about a group of people, that have been rescuing people's pets. How long would this type of exposure take to show symptoms..?
Just curious...
Pam Montgomery
Here is a website that may help answer your question. Also, just how much radioactive materials have the cows ingested would be part of the equation.
If someone receives a whole body dose more than 1,000 rem, they will suffer vascular damage of vital blood providing systems for nervous tissue, such as the brain. It is likely at doses this high, 100% of the people will die, from a combination of all the reasons associated with lower doses and the vascular damage.
http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/risk.htm
Animals generally have far shorter life spans than humans. Most of the cancers that develop as a result of radiation exposure do so over a span of time. Deaths that can be directly correlated to radiation fallout will be hard to pinpoint since there are other factors that can cause certain cancers.
Look to Chernobyl for the long-term effects. There have been some excellent documentaries about the after-effects of radiation exposure. Now there are to be two nuclear plants built in Georgia. They will cost billions. In terms of energy production, nuclear energy is extradordinarily expensive energy. Billions to build the plant and still, there is nowhere safe to dispose of the nuclear waste. Note that it was spent fuel rods that caused much of the grief at Fukushima.
Animals may have shorter life spans but they still give birth. If that is happening without incident, and there have been several generations since Chernobyl, then they are not being affected as one would expect.
My nuclear physics professor in college worked in his early career with Bremsstrahlung radiation extensively. A particularly dangerous type of radiation for human exposure. He taught me when he was well into his 80s and, at the time, was leukemic but quite lively and healthy appearing. Many people get leukemia in their elder years so was his death caused by radiation? Who is to say when you die at 89 after all his direct work with radiation?
Chernobyl has remarkable LOW effects for the expected and projected dangers.
Overall 500,000 people worked on the Chernobyl disaster; in ten years 50% of them were dead, 20 years and 80% were dead. I doubt that they used 60 year old labor, but mostly young men.
Japan has a volunteer radiation checking club who detected fatal levels of radiation in down town Tokyo. And what about the seals with skin falling off from radiation sickness?? Who knows what went into the ocean.
The really big issue will be the birth defects that this will cause in Japan. Then the cancers.
I believe that our government can safely and effectively regulate something as potentially dangerous as nuclear power, not!! The first thing that happens is lobbyists buy off the government and regulating office's. This is described in the article.
There has got to be a better way, if I have to put solar panels on my roof, that is what I'll do before accepting nuclear. I'm a Chemist.
The EPA tested waste dust from a cement plant that was located 30 miles away from a military arsenal that made Plutonium triggers for nuclear bombs. The EPA detected plutonium in the cement dust. Plutonium doesn't occur in nature, it is only man made, so it could only have come from the arsenal, 30 miles away. And they work with pounds of Plutonium, where as at a nuclear power plant they work with tons of radioactive material. You will be exposed.
And I am beginning to think that we do not hear all that there is to hear about the dangers of Nuclear. Is it possible that the media is biased? They are corporations that can be owned by anybody (with a vested interest).
So we say "so what, no big deal". Until we have a child that is born with cancer or is born dead due to genetic defects. But then it is too late to do anything about it. The environmental damage is done. As described in this article, it cannot be cleaned up, it lasts for thousands of years, can't be seen, the only thing that can be done is to leave. Is it our rite to do this to future generations in the name of cheap power? And once DNA is damaged it is passed on to future generations. There is more to cost than just the cents per kilowatt hr. Also: Corporations have responsibility to society just as much as responsibility to stockholders (most stockholders probably don't even live in the US).
Carbon Dioxide green house gases: Where did the oil and coal come from in the first place. They were ancient forests and animals. Since carbon is the limiting factor in plant growth we will just see more plants. Studies show that tree growth is accelerating. Crop production is at all time highs. Note: Bubbles caught in prehistoric amber have been analyzed showing ancient atmosphere contained fifty percent more oxygen than today. Trees give off oxygen and there are a lot more trees than there are cars. Lets see, the media says the down side is bad weather. Rising sea level, haven't actually measured a rise yet, but boy its going to! Much better to let future generation deal with genetic mutations!!
Dav1bg
I don't want to call you a liar Dave but your post has me wondering:
From the World Health Organization: The Expert Group concluded that there may be up to 4 000 additional cancer deaths among the three highest exposed groups over their lifetime (240 000 liquidators; 116 000 evacuees and the 270 000 residents of the SCZs). Since more than 120 000 people in these three groups may eventually die of cancer, the additional cancer deaths from radiation exposure correspond to 3-4% above the normal incidence of cancers from all causes.
The radiation levels in downtown Tokyo never got above 10 times background level in any one day and that was for a very brief time. that amounted to 0.809 (that is less than 1) microsievert with 100 microsievert for just one chest x-ray.
If they detected "FATAL" levels of radiation then why did no one die from Radiation poisoning???????????
I don't know where you are getting this crap from but Marine Biologist don't say anything about radiation exposure as a cause. Plus Polar bears eat ring seals if the seals were radioactive then the Polar bears would get sick and die and THEY ARE NOT.
Biologists say possible factors include immune system related diseases, fungal infections and man-made or bio-toxins, and they’re also considering the possibility that one disease caused the sores, which then allowed other pathogens to infect the seals and cause some of the other symptoms.
http://www.ktva.com/home/outbound-xml-feeds/Mystery-Illness-Affects-Ringed-Seals-136001393.html?m=y
Plutonium does occur naturally in nature, looks like you are batting ZERO, nice try though. You have posted so much nonsense I'm not going to bother to comment on the rest of your post.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=do-transuranic-elements-s
Major Tom,
It's common knowlege that WHO (World Health Organiation) is the lap dog of the nuclear industry as is the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency), both of which have down-played the seriousness and the extent of the nuclear contamination of Japan, and whose sole purpose is to promote nuclear energy.
For more information on the on-going nuclear crisis in Japan go to;
ENENEWS.com and fukushimadiary.com.
lokay5
ENENEWS.com and fukushimadiary.com. The TABLOIDS of the Fukushima disaster, according to them the First Lady had a baby by an extraterrestrial alien. Yeah, that's who I want to get my news from.
, "according to them the First Lady had a baby by an extraterrestrial alien
Sorry. Wrong again. Nowhere does enenews have any such article. Prove it.
The author should be arrested for entering peoples homes, and buisnesses without permisson. Takes a lot of nerve to enter the zone with a person that has permisson to get his belongings, and conduct himself in this manor.
The author went with a government "monitor" and with Japanese government permission. The Japanese have really pressed hard for the government to allow lots of people like this to go into the exclusion zone and tell them what things are like. The "belongings" in the exclusion are the property of the Japanese government. This is a necessary first step for people to get compensation for their losses.
Your handle and post combine make you appear to be a gun nut of the "shoot first and go to jail later" variety. But gun nuts are something they don't have in Japan.
Yes, freedom and property are owned by the government and can be taken away when ever they want to right?
The Japanese government isn't taking away any freedoms except a probability of people dieing from radiation poisoning.
In a disaster like this, the government takes ownership as a first step toward compensation. This was done as an emergency acta and for an area much smaller than what American nuclear experts advised.
I do suppose that some would consider it a "freedom" to be allowed to die from radiation, but I am not one of them.
The Soviets didnt force everyone to leave the Chernobyl exclusion zone. There are still hundreds living in it. If some of these Japanese want to live in the exclusion zone, they should be allowed.
Also the Jap Govt should ALLOW ALL OF THEM to come in, and grab EVERYTHING they want to grab, not just come in and out a few times a year to grab stuff. If the Govt owns all their possessions to determine how much each person gets, how come so many are still living in shelters a year later? Guess the Govt aint paying as much for their possessions as they claim.
Of course the government could "say"your home was contaminated and take it. There was a popular restaurant in my city, the Federal Government decided to build a large courthouse in the city, they could have chosen many places, but they picked the restaurant and surrounding property, the owner refused to sell, they told him, sell it to us, or we will condemn the property and take it and you will get nothing. The story was in the local paper.
Chris - 74****
I agree, there are too many "freedom" nuts in America we see everyday. So many people died during Katrina because they thought its their right to ride the storm, and in the end water basically drowned them. Every year people refuse to evacuate during the hurricane and many of them die because they ignore the evacuation warnings!
Again its their born right to be suicidal and ignore the government and that's the freedom we are talking about...
Until they have the capability to build a nuke plant that can absorb an 8.5+ earthquake screw nuke plants. lol
The problem with allowing residents to come in and "Grab whatever they want" is that most of those things are contaminated. What is the point in having and exclusion zone if you bring the contaminated material out? Granted, some items can be decontaminated such as tools and such but I imagine it would not be economically feasible to presume that the government will decontaminate just anything.
@ Chris, You need to criticaly read the artical as it states the Gov. is giving special permission to former residents to collect some of their belongings. Note the KEY words former residents. This author taged along with a former resident that wanted to obtain equipment from his factory. NO WHERE in the artical does it state that the author obtained any sort of Gov. permission to enter the area let alone peoples homes or place of buisnesses. You're right about one thing only, and that is I'm a gun nut!. So, just stay out of my home, and you'll have no problem with me.
Mike, the Soviets did force everyone to leave the exclusion zone around Chernobyl and it is still uninhabited. And it is a crime to enter the area without permission.
raddave
There are people living in the exclusion zone around Chernobyl, They may have been told to leave at some point in time, but have returned. There are a handful of people living there.
It is still illegal for them to live there though. Fortunately for this lady, Ukraine is a very poor country and probably does not have the resources to enforce the law.
Why not? The animals around Chernobyl are doing fine. The amount of radiation animals and humans can tolerate, when not delivered in a large sudden dose, is quite remarkable. People thrive even.
JenniWest
" The animals around Chernobyl are doing fine. The amount of radiation animals and humans can tolerate, when not delivered in a large sudden dose, is quite remarkable. People thrive even."
Uh huh. Sure they do.
Honey, you've been listening to way too much (M)Anne Coulter. He's a firm believer in hormesis which also, apparently, can change a man into a "woman".
JenniWest: I don't believe the "animals around Chernobyl are doing just fine." True, there are animals living there, but I seem to recall the relative proportions of species (that is, the ecology) has been affected.
If someone with time could track down this information, all surely would be pleased.
Why not? The animals around Chernobyl are doing fine. The amount of radiation animals and humans can tolerate, when not delivered in a large sudden dose, is quite remarkable. People thrive even.
Tell us about the birds at Chernobyl, Jenni. You know, the ones whose brains are now 5% smaller than they used to be before the accident.
Come on. Tell us how that's really an evolutionary advantage.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_9387000/9387395.stm
Birds living around the site of the Chernobyl nuclear accident have 5% smaller brains, an effect directly linked to lingering background radiation.
The finding comes from a study of 550 birds belonging to 48 different species living in the region, published in the journal PLoS One.
Brain size was significantly smaller in yearlings compared with older birds.
Smaller brain sizes are thought to be linked to reduced cognitive ability.
...Insect diversity has also fallen, and previously, the same researchers found a way to predict which species there were likely to be most severely damaged by radioactive contamination, by evaluating how often they renewed parts of their DNA.
This makes me think of all the nuke plants on the east coast of the US. These areas in the eastern part of the US are due for some extreme seismic activity in the years or decades to come.
What happens if just one of the many nuke plants on the east coast where to suffer this type of accident? What happens if many more then 1 where to suffer this type of accident ?
I understand that nuclear power is virtually necessary in this day and age but I do not see any urgency with respect to the possibility that large parts of the US could become uninhabitable if a single natural disaster damaged or destroyed many nuke plants at 1 time.
Of the many things we have to concern ourselves with, this is one thing that we should be getting our heads out of our butts on.
They'd probably be fine. Keep in mind the Japanese plant survived the 9.0 earthquake just fine; the engineers did a fantastic job considering it was 40 year old technology. The thing that did it in was some idiot put the backup generators in the basement, and the rest of the power grid was not as hardened as the reactor buildings, so they lost power. When the tsunami came (the plant survived that, too) the backup generators were flooded, the cooling system lost power, THEN all hell broke loose.
So the take away is: dont put the backup generators in the fuggin basement and the plant will be back online in no time to provide power to assist during post-earthquake clean up operations.
I agree. It was the cooling systems that failed resulting in a meltdown. I hope, in the least, the backup cooling systems have been inspected and reinforced. While I am not a fan, per se, of nuclear energy, I am a fan of all the convienences it allows me to have. And so, I have no choice but to live with it.
I
@Remydon,
The earthquake severely damaged the reactors control systems and disconnected them from the power grid as well as damaging all of the cooling ponds used to store fuel rods, both active and spent. The tsunami was only the coup d'grace. The damage from the earthquake alone would most likely have resulted in the same meltdowns without the tsunami because there simply was not enough time to repair control systems and restore cooling systems.
Much of the problems that would have prevented restoration of the reactor systems came from damage to the cooling ponds and this was done mostly by the earthquake.
The major design failure was that the whole plant was built on fill and subsidence had not been properly calculated. This meant that the tsunami wall was nowhere high enough and cooling ponds were actually very, very fragile.
The only good luck the Japanese had was that two of the six reactors were down and completely cooled and one more was offline and shut down for routine maintenance.
Oversimplification is not a good way to try to understand things.
On both coasts and all the land in between should be looking at this! These plants are aging and accidents are going to happen.
Chris,
#1 The reactor control system backups and automation worked perfectly fine, the control rods were inserted and fission stopped BEFORE the tsunami hit. They even managed to turn off the emergency backup pumps that were capable of running off primary power in anticipation of the tsunami, but at least in reactor 1 could not reactivate them due to the flooded generators. Reactor 3's cooling system operated on battery power for a while but even with skilled operator control to conserve power it still didn't last long enough. The meltdown happened soley because of loss of power to the cooling system.
#2 It is impossible for an active fuel rod to exist outside the reactor, I think you just meant spent. Unused fuel rods are no more radioactive than depleted uranium and can be handled without any protective gear whatsoever (actually the handlers where gloves when manipulating fuel pins so they don't contaminate the fuel). In anycase, yes the water in the pools was boiling off once gain due to the lack of power, but it had nothing to do with the rest of the plant. In fact the Japanese really didn't know it was an issue until a US drone overflew the plant with an IR camera and saw the massive thermal blooms in the building containg the spent fuel ponds and alerted operators.
I'm working on my M.S. in nuclear engineering, I don't need to oversimplify things to understand them. I was simplifying to explain the disaster in layman's terms, and my simplification was overall accurate: the disaster would have been averted had the generators been better protected from flooding.
Remydon-2325813
It's nice to see that there are people posting on here that know something about which they speak, nice job ;-)
It's interesting that even after the tsunami struck that battery backup system kept the plants cool and under control until they ran out of charge.
wha will happen?
why EXACTLY THE SAME THING. lives will be messed up or lost, the environment wil be destroyed, the rest of the country will ridicule everyone, folks with money in the game will deny it happened and blame libuhruhls, and as usual the lowest paid people around will suffer the burden.. and the rich guys who put it in will get by scott free.
same as ALWAYS!
Remydon. Spent fuel rods are much more radioactive than depleted uranium (U238). Since you said unused fuel rods, they are thousands of times more radioactive than DU. DU is not handled with no protective gear either.
I believe I read that the damaged plant had tried to quickly bring in outside emegency electric generators, but could not use them because the connections were incompatible. By regularly conducting actual drills, a problem like this would have immediately surfaced. Some Fukushima reactors apparently do not use plutonium and some do. I would never allow the most toxic element on earth in power plants. And if there was no safe place to put any type of spent fuel rods, I would go back to geothermal power which Japan has plenty of, and wind and sea powered generators, big time.
Major Tom
It's common knowlege and easily verified that reactor 1 wa severly damaged by the earthquake and radiation alarms were sounding long before the tsunami struck.
Still trying to play it off like Fukashima was just a local incident that mainly effected some people over there. The Japanese Gov't has been lying about it since the first alarm went off and the worldwide media goes along singing the party song.
No doubt it'll be buried under piles of conflicting statistics when the first of those 400K people start dying of radiation-related illnesses -- but that's a problem for The Imperialist Japanese Empire. The people in reactor area and Fukashima city are now among the walking dead, but give 'em a raincoat and vacuum cleaner to keep them busy. Look, new Toyota, new Sony, no problem, Joe.
And the miles long swatch radioactive junk in the ocean? And the tons of deadly toxic water dumped right from the reactors into the ocean? We SAID no problem, Joe! Here, new Mitsubishi car, shut up!
@Bills Catz,
1) You are correct that the Japanese government and TEPCO have told really bad lies, given out misleading information, and withheld a lot more. But from their perspective, they are just trying to let the public find out how bad it was in dibs and dabs so they can absorb the information without being overwhelmed. This reporter was undoubtedly part of the government's trying to be more transparent.
2) The media reports what it sees and what it is told. There was considerable media scepticism during the event because they information from the Japanese government did not match at all what they were hearing from experts in this country. The media, especially in Japan, was the best source of information available to the Japanese people. Some media did stuff like putting in their own network of radiation monitors and reporting the readings.
3) No one in Japan or anywhere else is trying to portray it as a localized incident that will be quickly cleaned up and people will move on. The American nuclear power industry would like it to be seen that way, however.
Bills Catz
Chris-749391
You two are too funny, "OMG! THE SKY IS FALLING AND WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!" You two better get indoors before it is too late!
Unfortunate. Reminds me of that quote from Star Wars: "Where do you get your delusions, laser brain?"
Fukishima is a local incident. Distrust of government and media doesn't make that any different.
This goes to show you how fked up the media is!! This guy and prob all like him will kill them self's just to make a story! WOWA...maybe that is not a bad thing!
Wat a minute. Is not Hiroshima a thirving city now? They had one heck of a lot more radiation, Alfa and Beta Particles as well as Gama. Did they abandon any land? No they cleaned it up, smartly and now enjoy life. Samo samo for Nagasaki. Any "land" at all abandoned? Engle is a slut, he lies.
fukushima is much worse than hiroshima -168 times worse
google it. this site doesnt let post links
@Katlan,
The cleanup after Hiroshima and Nagasaki consisted mostly of bulldozing it and building parks at the ground zero. A huge amount of land was abandoned in both cases. Local residents in Hiroshima are still cautioned not to spend a lot of time at the Peace Park because it is still radioactive enough to be a hazard to people who might go there every day.
The Japanese at the time, like virtually every other person on the planet, knew absolutely about radiation. They were the original radiation poisoning guinea pigs and still are. But from the Japanese perspective the nuclear bombs were nothing more than a variant of the fire-bombing that was slowly destroying every city, town, and village in the country. So they did jump in and begin to clean it up as they did after every other bombing raid. The people had no choice. They were ordered to do it first by their government and later by MacArthur's administration.
You just don't clean up radiation and move on.
LoL
Hiroshima killed over 100,000, 225,000 were injured/sick.
Fukashima killed no one and no one got sick.
168 sounds like a Hockey Stick metaphor.
LoL
Lots of folks did not receive that memo. I lived in Hiroshima for almost 2 years.. There were no restrictions. All has been cleaned up
Peace Park you say? Think you are confused with Nagasaki.
yeah and a million of em died too! yay!
Katlan, the explosion at Hiroshima was an air burst. There was no significant fallout, and most radiation would remain in the atmosphere. Since there was no significant fallout, after the initial burst of gamma and neutron radiation decayed, the area would be safe to re-enter after about 3 days. When there is fallout, the nuclear cloud sucks dust and particles high enough into the cloud that they become highly contaminated and it then falls back to earth, up to several hundred miles away. That is why Hiroshima and Nagasaki are inhabitable today. Where areas such as Bikini Atoll still have significantly higher levels of radiation.
Katlan, it is a lie that no one died at Fukashima. There were two bodies found in a turbine room. And to say no one has gotten "sick" from contamination is also not true, because unless it was a significant amount of exposure, it takes years for the effects to show.
Katlin is the slut! just got the memo from Rush. he knows these things!
raddave: The two people found dead inside the plant at Fukushima were basically battered to death by the tsunami. The 3 (if I recall correctly) workers who have since died had heart attacks.
Seems like with all the lieing going on between countries and in general....its only going to be a matter of time before radioactive tainted foods start showing up around the world. Add that to the growing problems of FDA inspectors not being able to examine half the foods that come into our country. Boy... thats a bit scary.
So you don't approve of keeping government small by understaffing regulatory agencies?
Better buy a Geiger counter. I wonder if Pampered Chef will be selling them?
Actually, you are more at risk from poorly cooked meats and preservatives. And poor food choices with regard to your heart and diabetic risk. But no one gives a crap about that stuff. Just pop a pill and head for McDs.
JenniWest: If you're living in Japan, you don't even have to buy a Geiger counter: you can borrow them for free at, e.g., this shop in my neighborhood: http://store.tsutaya.co.jp/storelocator/detail/2207.html.
This proves beyond all doubt that America needs to step up and build a nuclear reactor in every city ! That cesium will stop being radioactive in 30 years or so. It will make a nice history museum for the children suffering from cancer and birth defects and besides America needs energy more than people anyway. ( The sarcasm switch is in the ON position)
Actually jnessler, cesium does not stop being radioactive in 30 years or so. The half life of cesium 137 is 30.17 years. This means that after 30 years or so there will be half as much cesium 137 present as there is today. It will take an additional 30.17 years to reduce the amount remaining in 2042 by half again. The length of time required to reduce the amount to safe levels depends on the amount initially present. That assumes that we know what a safe level is, which is not without controversy.
I stand corrected.
Cs-137 decays by beta emission to Ba-137 after 30.17 years 95% of the time. Ba-137 is radioactive as well.
That is why nuclear plants have containment or exclusion zones. It's a big planet folks. The extreme benefits of nuclear power outweight the occasional dead zone of a few square miles (not even a true term since life flourishes at both Chernobyl and Fukashima.)
Don't be afraid of nuclear or radiation. Be afraid of ignorance about nuclear and radiation.
Did you know that if a nuclear plant emitted as much radiation as coal fired plants routinely do, the nuclear plant would be shut down? Why are there no protests and demands for coal plants to be shut down? Coal plants are responsible for thousands of deaths. Tens of thousands. Nuclear? Zero. (in America) and very few in areas affected by Chernobyl and by extention of projected data, Fukashima as well.
JenniWest
You're listening to way too much (M)Anne Coulter! He's a firm believer in hormesis, which apparently can change a man into a "woman".
The arrogance of man to think they can control such dangerous power without ever having an issue with it. Yet they continue to claim it is safe. In this country the government spent billions on Yucca Mountain to store nuclear waste, and before they stored any of it, and after spending billions constructing it, they found out that it leaks water and it was then deemed unsuitable. So now the plants themselves store their waste on site! What happens when they run out of room for the waste? What then? They have no plan! This stuff will be radioactive for tens of thousands of years! Two hundred generations will have to deal with the result of our foolish arrogance! It simply is not worth it!
If you took man's 'arrogance' out of the equation, the audacity to think we could possibly control anything in nature, we'd still be cavemen. So um...yeah. There's that.
Yucca Mountain was defeated by ignorance and politics. Not water. The fact that the plants have safely stored their waste on site for oever half a century, without incident, is a testament not to the idiocy of nuclear but to its inherent safety.
If there was ANYTHING on the planet where you could legitimately say "They have no plan!" it is not nuclear energy. Study up.
JenniWest
"If there was ANYTHING on the planet where you could legitimately say "They have no plan!" it is not nuclear energy. Study up."
Really? So, just what exactly IS the "plan" for high level nuclear waste?
"Study up"? I studied. Did you?
Yes! Because 50 years is a long time. Yeah, right! Can't believe you even made that statement and then have the gull to say "study up". Perhaps you are a troll, just trying to get people riled up or perhaps I should take it as sarcasm.
Ho-hum.
My question is this, why not repair the plant and put it back online. For that matter why not build another one or two plants in the exclusion zone, perhaps a large solar array, wind farm etc. If the land is unuseable and wont be for millions of years make it your power production sector and have it supply power to much of the country.
Why haven't the cattle been sluaghtered? Seems like an accident waiting to happen to me. I can see mutated cows, Godzilla sized or otherwise. People eating the tainted meat. It all could go horribly wrong. Knock it all down, pave the whole area and use the land for storing of radio active materials.
Re-using the site has been proposed. It's not unreasonable; the area has already suffered a freak worst-case mishap and will probably remain difficult for decades (not millions of years, though; the troublesome isotope seems to Cesium-137, which has a half-life of 30 years). So putting in some new (better protected) reactors there would be an intelligent use of the site. But Japan is still rebuilding from the tsunami that caused the problem in the first place, and it's only been a year, so we can't be surprised that they're not breaking ground yet.
Yes, your probably right, land is very valuable in Japan and the rich want money, it didn't take too long to make Ground Zero in NY profitable again. Money makes the World go round.
If they can remediate the Cesium effectively, then they should not hesitate to re-open the plant. People do have to work there so until the dust is contained, it will remain isolated.
"If they can remediate the Cesium effectively"
"If there was ANYTHING on the planet where you could legitimately say "They have no plan!" it is not nuclear energy. Study up."
How do you suggest they "remediate the Ceisum"? What exqactly IS their PLAN?
This is an international disaster. This is not now nor will it ever be safe. We need to throw all of our mighty resources into greener technology.
analystgirl
You need to do a little analyses befor posting nonsense on here LOL.
Please explain how your analyses brought you to your conclusion.
In the mean time let me share with you my analyses:
1. This is not an international incident, it is a local Japanese issue.
2. Japan as a whole is just as safe as here in the US only the area in and around the Nuclear power plants is not safe for now but can be made safe in the decades to come.
You'd be better served checking on Radon Gas in your own home than worrying about Japan:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-05-25/news/8602070728_1_stanley-watras-high-radon-radon-levels
There is nothing that should stop our exploration of greener technologies. That should be a given. But nuclear is safe. It is clean. It is green.
Truly be careful what you wish for. Your life, if nuclear had not been invented would be the stuff of science fiction nightmares.
Nuclear power is neither "green" nor "safe". Ask anyone in Japan just exactly how "safe" nuclear generated electricity is.
"Green"? That's laughable. 50 years of electricity resulting in the isolation for hundreds of thousands of years of one of, if not THE most toxic substances known to man with no PLAN for storage or "disposal". I use the word "disposal" euphemistically.
JenniWest said;
"If there was ANYTHING on the planet where you could legitimately say "They have no plan!" it is not nuclear energy. Study up."
There is nothing that should stop our exploration of greener technologies. That should be a given. But nuclear is safe. It is clean. It is green.
And you're saying that with a straight face.
80,000 nuclear refugees in Japan right now, Jenni, who ain't thinking it's so green. You wanna head over there to preach your nuclear gospel? Go. I'm sure they'd be thrilled to hear from you. So would those folks over at Chernobyl.
shakalac
No one can say that this was not an enormous disaster for Japan but 10 times your 80,000 were displaced or killed by the tsunami, now that's the REAL disaster here.
Many seem to be writing as if, because 80,000 were displaced by the accident at the nuclear power plant nuclear power and only nuclear power is associated with risk. Consider, though, for example, the Bhopal disaster, with more than 2000 dead (at lowest estimate) and as many as 500,000 injured.
Many seem to be writing as if, because 80,000 were displaced by the accident at the nuclear power plant nuclear power and only nuclear power is associated with risk. Consider, though, for example, the Bhopal disaster, with more than 2000 dead (at lowest estimate) and as many as 500,000 injured.
So is that what you were telling the people of Fukushima while you were there working with them, Whence? And did they agree with you?
I'm curious.
shakalac: I was told similar things many times both in Fukushima and by people from the area. I honestly don't recall if I initiated the topic any time, though. Remember, large numbers of people are still around who survived the firebombing of Tokyo. (Though I'd met people who lived through the Great Tokyo Earthquake, none I know is still alive.)
Major Tom, you are working WAY too hard downplaying the harmful effects of this disaster.
You act as if statistics on paper, or radiation readings in the moment "prove" that there is no harm done.
Some of the ludicrous comments : Paving over the exclusion zone and making it "productive and useful" as solar or wind farm?
Why listen to actual residents suffering from illnesses when Major Tom can assure you that his brilliant scientific analysis PROVES no harmful effects!
Of course, no further radiation is cumulatively leeching into the air and water, let's build a resort in the exclusion zone!
I know there is a "study" to dispute this Fukushima residents complaints right?
Who could believe her? She has an agenda!
Samtheman 57 at #14.9: "Why listen to actual residents suffering from illnesses"?
If you are referring to actual residents suffering from illnesses caused by the (ongoing) radiation leaks, because it's hard to listen to that that does not exist.
If you watch the video, the man who owns the plant mentions that he had looters a few days later, after the quake...
The cows have gotten large and aggressive, I wonder what has happened to the cockroaches?
Don't worry, they will be both eaten by Godzilla.
Eric-2268883
Interesting, Cockroaches can take 25,000 times more radiation than humans with no ill affect.
I believe I can offer some valuable perspective as a longtime US nuclear power worker with experience at plants of the Fukushima type. But a short comment won't do it - way too complex. So I wrote a novel covering the people, politics and technolgy, bot h good and bad. (I'm not a true believer.) It is available online free, with no sponsors or ads - just google "Rad Decision". Reviews are also at the home page - people seem to like it. The climactic event is similar to the beginnings of the Fukushima tragedy.
and yet there is a poll on MSN where 54% of the US respondents want US to use more nuclear power.....
That stuff that happened in Japan ...surely cannot happen here ...right ?
Morons !!!
It's a known fact that 47% of all statistics are made up on the spot........./
Nice - I agree with that statistic 100%.
I heard it was higher. Like 85% of statistics.
I don't know what you guys are talking about but if you think the 54% stats is made up, all you gotta do is go to www.msn.com and see the poll midway down the page along the right margin ....
Because Americans are largely educated, know the benefits of nuclear and are sure as heck not giving up their power sucking ways and want to reduce dependance on foreign fuel imports. Kudos to the 54%....
JenniWest
With all due respect, Americans are not more educated than the Japanese. Also, the average American is not all that well educated in science and math. Liberal arts - does not provide any understanding of nuclear forces.
Do you, for instance, know what the half life period of radioactive caesium is ? Do you know how long it will be before the radiation affected land in Japan will be habitable again ?
But more importantly, What has education got to do with anything ? Natural disasters - Tsunami/ earthquakes/ tornadoes - they don't care how educated you are. They can strike anywhere - even nuclear plants.
Oh and how are you going to reduce our dependence on foreign oil by building more nuclear reactors ?
JenniWest said;
"Because Americans are largely educated,..."
Uh huh. Sure they are. Not like those uneducated cretins in Japan huh?
(snicker, giggle)
lokay5
Your post reminds me of a reply from a 13 year old school girl...................
MajorTom,
I enjoy and agree with most of your posts, but your ↑ comment (and your previous "OMG! THE SKY IS FALLING AND WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!" You two better get indoors before it is too late!") are equally grade school level.
- I hate when that happens. :/
LMAO! They had to hide from feral cows!? This reminds me of the feral cows you had to slay in that special level in diablo 2. I always thought feral cows were just a myth.
Hell Bovines I htink they were called, hahahaha
the feral cows are unattended livestock that become wild . I thought it was stupid also all the votes in favor for more nuclear reactors in our country when there are so many fault lines for earthquakes and hurricanes to wreck property down south .
I think we should build nuke plants in Kalifornia and the City part of New York, leak some radiation, maybe those folks will start thinking normal again, because there sure seem to be a lot of mutants in the large population areas here in the US.
Germany has abandoned the continuation of its nuclear program, shutting down the older ones, and all remaining active plants will be shut down by 2022.
bigmama1744
Yes, then they will buy their energy from France and their Nuclear power Plants LOL ;-)
Huge mistake on Germany's part. They have both very warm and very cold weather, is not a sun belt country, has large population centers, hi tech infrastructure and highly educated people. This is not a land of the Amish. Their energy demands will either force them to use the far more, unequivocally deadly coal with its huge pollution issue (including radation, BTW!) or buy power from other countries using nuclear. Or slam themselves back to the stone age.
Jenni, Germany has very warm weather? I lived for 6 years there and only say temps in the 100s for about 5 days. Most German buildings and houses don't have air conditioning, and are heated using radiators, using hot water. That water is heated using fuel oil, or solar. Their energy demands are much per capita than ours. But they will probably buy some of their power from Poland or Czech.
Germany will not shut her plants down by 2022 as stated. Merkel will be long gone and the practicality of the situation will change the course of German politics......again.
Great article Richard!
Interesting that the wild cows are still alive after a year. I guess they are letting them live to study the effects of the radiation.
"letting them live," are you kidding. From the way this article reads the radiation is so bad them thar cows outta be done dead by now!
I'd guess the radiation isn't so bad...otherwise the bovines would be dead...or growing two heads...or giving glow-in-the-dark milk...pre-cooked sirloin...what a concept!
Maybe in a few years "Cowzilla" will rise up and take on "Bull-thra!"
I went to school with a boy whose mother was a Nagasaki survivor. She was a child when the bombs hit. She married later in life and moved to Hawaii to raise a family, and they had seven kids.The oldest boy, Tommy, looked like he had been in a horrific fire. You could see, from the oldest child to the youngest, the effects of the radiation. They had pointy teeth, and all looked like they had been burned at birth, with the youngest being spared the worst of the radiation poisoning. We always wondered if their offspring would pass these traits along. Radiation = bad @!$%# for a long time.
you guys wanna be the first to eat those lovely steaks?
You all are so funny. LOL no I don't want to eat the steaks and Cowzilla may in fact already be in the works. They say these cows are going feral.
Lloyd-812061
I was in the Navy and had a girlfriend in Japan who's mother was a Nagasaki survivor and she was a beautiful girl. I have to think that what you are describing is some form of Epidermolysis Bullosa. If this women had enough radiation in her system to cause radiation burns on her babies then she would be dead.
MajorTom, you do realize that when you were calculating the area of Japan, you were using the area of a circle, with the incorrect data; the affected area isn't 12 miles in diameter. And even still, water is also affected by radiation, so you can't deduct that from your total affected area. Also, your travel website source is only talking about Tokyo, saying the radiation there is comparable to New York City. As you can see in an article on BBC, "The researchers estimate that caesium-137 levels close to the nuclear plant were eight times the safety limit, while neighbouring regions were just under this cut off" (). Although the article is from November, it is still relevant, because radiation seeps into the soil and lasts for decades. I agree that there's no major cause to evacuate the country, but for safety, there should be an evacuation in a 20-25 mile radius from the nuclear site.
Hey, Richard Engel, how about some numbers? You know, the things credible professionals use to evaluate and report on hazards. Instead of a sensationalist hit piece how about you tell us what the observed levels of contamination were?
Here's why: Because they're not scary. You'll find on cesium stuck in any cow's throat. You're in no danger from cow manure if you scrape it off your shoe like any reasonable person would do with any ordinary manure. In fact, unless you lick it or dry it to dust and snuff it up, you're in no danger from it at all.
Freaking twit sensationalist "reporters"
Merde!
I noticed they didn't mentioned what happened to all the pets left behind?...
Yes they did Moron. The cows ate them. You need to comprehend what you read better..
Turdchaser
Calling someone a "Moron" is not something we tolerate on here...... but humor is tolerated LOL...................