By Meghan Frank and Jessica Hopper
Rock Center
In South Africa, home to three quarters of the last remaining rhinos on the planet, conservationists, private game reserve owners and security forces are waging a desperate battle against poachers intent on killing the country’s rhinos for their lucrative horns.
“It is an epidemic. It’s a war that right now we’re losing,” Graeme Rushmere said. “It’s not a South African issue as such, it’s really a global issue.”
Rushmere owns Kariega Game Reserve, a nearly 25,000 acre private reserve. The reserve is home to critically endangered black rhinos and white rhinos.
Rhinos have roamed the Earth for millions of years, but at the turn of the twentieth century there were only about 50 white rhinos left in the world. All were in South Africa. Over the course of several decades, South Africans brought the white rhino back from the brink of extinction. Through incredible conservation work, there are almost 20,000 white rhinos today. The recent spike in poaching has South Africans worried that all of their hard work to save the rhino will be reversed.
Just a decade ago, only about a dozen rhinos were poached each year. Last year, poachers killed more than 400 rhinos.
For Graeme Rushmere and his friend and neighbor Dr. Will Fowlds, the fight to stop the poaching is personal. They lost one of their beloved rhinos, Geza, after his horn was brutally hacked off by poachers.
“We called him Geza which means ‘the naughty one,’” Fowlds said in an interview to air Wednesday night on NBC's Rock Center with Brian Williams. “It was because he had such a naughty playful character.”
Fowlds is a wildlife veterinarian and co-owner of a wild game reserve named Amakhala.
Fowlds has dedicated his life to caring for animals and restoring their habitats, especially the rhinoceros. He still remembers the first rhino that was ever brought to his property. It was Geza’s mother.
“When she stepped off that vehicle and walked out onto that plain and started grazing immediately, it was as if something just fell into place,” Fowlds said.
His first rhino became pregnant with Geza. When he was born, the mom put her baby calf on display.
“It was as if she wanted to show it to the world. She was so proud of her little son. So those were special days,” Fowlds said.
When Geza was three, Fowlds sold him to Rushmere as a way to help grow the rhino population.
“Geza was one of our first four rhino that we introduced back into that wilderness area that basically then had rhino back on it for the first time in probably 160, 170 years,” Rushmere said.
In February of last year, Rushmere received a devastating call that poachers had attacked Geza and that incredibly, he was still alive. Rushmere alerted Fowlds who rushed to the reserve.
“I went in by myself and when I came around the corner and first saw him, obviously the first thing that strikes you is that there’s an animal that’s supposed to have horns on it and not only were the horns gone, but a large part of his face was missing too,” Fowlds said through tears. “It was just an all consuming sight of pain and agony and confusion. It was an awful thing.”
Rarely are poached rhinos found alive. The poachers had knocked Geza out with a tranquilizer dart and then hacked through his skull with a machete to get every inch of his horn.
“I couldn’t explain why, why someone would do such a thing, but to be there with that animal, I just, I just kept on saying, I’m so sorry boy,” Fowlds said.
Fowlds examined Geza and knew he could not be saved. Before putting the rhino to sleep, he made an agonizing decision to bring a cameraman to document the rhino’s suffering. He hopes the footage will help raise awareness.
“I still don’t know if I did the right thing. I think that will only be known when I see results, if I see the level of poaching start to decrease,” Fowlds said. “Maybe I can say to myself, well part of that had something to do with those images we were able to show the world, but at this stage, I still don’t know if I made the right decision.”
Hundreds of rhinos like Geza are under brutal and bloody assault because of an increasing demand for rhino horn in Asia.
“The worrying thing is if the escalation continues for another one or two more years at this rate, we will very soon start to lose more animals than we can produce,” Fowlds said.
Tom Milliken monitors the illegal rhino horn trade for an organization called Traffic and links the uptick in poaching to increasing wealth and purchasing power in places like China and especially Vietnam.
“Vietnam’s entry into the trade is what has driven this upsurge that we’re witnessing now,” Milliken said.
On top of increased purchasing power, rhino horn is being marketed in a new way. Milliken said that the traditional medicine systems of Asia have long promoted rhino horn as a way to reduce fever and other ailments like nose bleeds, but an urban myth has recently taken hold that rhino horn can cure cancer. Scientists have studied rhino horn and found that its medicinal value is virtually non-existent.
“Suddenly rhino horn was being promoted in a very lucrative market as a miracle cure and that has led to just carnage in Africa and the highest prices for rhino horn that we’ve ever seen in its history,” Milliken said.
An average sized rhino horn in Vietnam can sell for as much as a quarter of a million dollars, which makes rhino horn gram for gram more valuable than gold or cocaine.
“Highly orchestrated, highly choreographed” rings do the poaching and selling of the rhino horn, Milliken said.
Milliken explained the crime syndicates have “the modern threads of technology: cell phones, computers, Internet.” They also use helicopters, GPS, thermal imaging and powerful medicine to tranquilize the rhinos. That medicine is typically only available to veterinarians, meaning that the very people who are supposed to care for the rhinos are assisting some of the poachers.
In South Africa, the upcoming trial involving two veterinarians, a helicopter pilot, a wild game reserve owner and others accused of slaughtering rhinos, has shocked the country.
Desperate to stop the killing, several short-term measures have been taken to try and protect the animals.
On the reserve where Geza was killed, owner Rushmere moved the remaining rhinos closer to the lodges where his anti-poaching patrol could keep watch on them. He also decided to dehorn several of his rhinos. When done properly, it doesn’t hurt the rhino to have its horn cut off and the horn grows back. Graeme hopes the dehorning is just a temporary solution.
Neal Carter/NBC News
“They’re measures which make you feel you’re going backwards. I mean to dehorn a rhino is defacing a beautiful animal and it’s just, it’s contrary to all of our gut instincts about conservation and wildlife, but it’s a life saving measure. It’s one of those decisions. It’s a lose, lose scenario,” Rushmere said.
Lorinda Hern has taken an even more drastic measure. Her family owns the Rhino and Lion Nature Reserve outside of Johannesburg. They decided to inject the horns of their rhinos with a parasiticide that she claims is safe for the rhino, but would make humans sick.
“We’ve armed our rhinos. We’ve armed them. We’ve treated their horns and if you do consume the horn, you do so at your peril. I can guarantee you, it will not have the desired effect,” Hern said.
Hern and her family made the decision after two of their rhinos were killed. The poachers used tranquilizer darts and the animals were found dead the next day.
“It’s still hard to speak about it because of the excessive cruelty of it. If you do need to kill it, then just kill it. Don’t make it suffer and it doesn’t understand what’s happening to it. It’s the most vile, inhumane act,” she said through tears.
Others have added microchips into the rhino’s horns and taken DNA samples that can be used to track rhino horn sold on the black market.
Most of South Africa’s rhinos roam the country’s large national parks, making them easy targets for poachers.
“It’s actually got to the stage now where we’re at home, the phone rings and you [are] now sort of terrified that it is another rhino,” said Rusty Hustler, head of security for South Africa’s North West Parks and Tourism Board.
Neal Carter/NBC News
The fight has turned deadly for humans too. Twenty-six poachers were killed last year.
Hustler said that South Africa’s military has been deployed in some public parks to fight poachers. In others, park rangers have received paramilitary training and joined anti-poaching units.
At Pilanesberg, a park under Hustler’s watch, ecologist Stephen Dell said that it’s been several years since he has worried much about the balance of plant and animal life. Instead, he’s become like a soldier fighting a war against the poachers.
“It is absolutely a war, they’re armed so we have to be armed…it’s difficult for us to stay one step ahead of them because they’re the ones who are prepared to take the risks and big risks. People are dying in this, poachers are dying,” Dell said.
One member of the anti-poaching unit at Pilanesberg told NBC News that he’s willing to risk his life for the rhinos.
“It cannot defend itself. It doesn’t have a gun,” Mpho Motshegwe said. “Poachers have guns, so I’m willing to stand up and fight for the rhino because it can’t fight for itself.”
For Dell, the ecologist turned warrior, he fears we’re nearing a tipping point in the survival of the species.
“When you have done it for so long and there are very few success stories in conservation and the rhino is one,” Dell said. “Poaching is taking out animals that are young and female, they’re not going to breed. They’re gone out of the system. You’re going to go straight into a vortex of extinction and that’s how it happens.”
Click here to watch Harry Smith's full report, 'Last Stand.' The report aired Feb. 22 on Rock Center with Brian Williams.
Leave a Comment:
If the horn can be removed and it regrows without killing the rhino, then why kill the rhino? It's like chopping down a tree to get the fruit!
because poachers are friggin retards. They do not have the balls to tangle with a living rhino, much easier to them to kill it first.
Coz to properly dehorn a rhino cost over $1,000 ... it's kinda like surgery.
A poacher couldn't care less and just takes a power saw.
Geowil, poachers do not kill the Rhino first. They tranquilize it, remove the horn, and leave it to die. Geza was found alive with part of his face removed. He had to be put to sleep.
Agreed that poachers are retards, though.
How do I join and anti-poaching unit? I'll provide my own weapons and ammo. Maybe I'll mount the heads of poachers in my living room.
I wouldn't kill the poachers. I would just tranquilize them, cut off their nose and leave them where I found them.
The poaching industry is tied directly to terrorist groups. It is time to escalate the war against poachers, and make certain that the choice to be a poacher is certain suicide, for the poacher and all those who would give aid and comfort, as well as the whole chain, especially the end consumers. If we are in the age of globalism, then we should send people to cut the faces off of the Asians whose sick perverted disregard to the earth can no longer be tolorated.
The horn has to be removed very carefully, per this article and others that I've read - and poachers don't have time for that. They are just greedy rotten humans that think of nothing but themselves. The market in Asia is where this has got to stop. Rhino horn does nothing for humans, but it is very important for the rhino. Human beings - sometimes I wonder - are we really the more intelligent species?
Why would you call poachers that do this, HUMAN BEINGS.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Anyone caught poaching or buying rhino horn or elephant tusks should have their noses removed without anesthesia. I am an American but I am embarrassed as a human being that there are still people in the world that think rhino horns will give you magic powers. So very embarrassing for us all.
Because this is how the Chinese, and other ignorant, pathetic, stupid, backwards Asians think.
Consume! Destroy! All in the name of erections!
To say nothing of the equally pathetic Africans who poach these fine animals. Some vision of the future there, Nostradamus! What will you do when you wipe them out? How will you feed your 12 children? US taxpayer pity?
Now you'd think that some brilliant Chinese scientist (with his US taxpayer funded college education and Ph.D.) would come up with a way to either disprove the disgustingly backwards myth about virility and horns, or, alternately, a way to synthesize it in the lab and become rich.
Too bad about the Rhino. Good thing sweet, innocent 8 lb Baby Jesus is going to save the West!
LOL
So,so many things to lump under an execution umbrella. Poachers, pirates,murderers,child molesters......and the list goes on and on!!
This is like the drug war. The only way to stop it is to dry up demand. There needs to be a massive educational effort in (mostly) Asia about what the demand for rhino horn is doing. People need to understand the consequences of buying this stuff.
This saying comes to mind, every time I hear of another possible extinction of wildlife caused by greedy humans.......
South Africa should enact a "no fly zone" over the parks and put them under radar surveillance. Any unauthorized helicopters get popped by the SA Air Force.
What do you expect from MAN. They destory everything in their path. MAN has no respect for wildlife just like they almost wiped out the Bald Eagle/Elephant, Mink for their furs, ect......now the Rhino. SHAMEFUL. MAN shows no respect for ANYTHING BUT GREED.
Poachers are humans.
Mike Duh wrote this:
Geowil, poachers do not kill the Rhino first. They tranquilize it, remove the horn, and leave it to die. Geza was found alive with part of his face removed. He had to be put to sleep.
Agreed that poachers are retards, though.
How do I join and anti-poaching unit? I'll provide my own weapons and ammo. Maybe I'll mount the heads of poachers in my living room.
#1.3 - Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:47 PM EST
ObeyTheLaw wrote this:
Hey Mike, I wonder if you had those heads shrunk, {shrunken heads} if they would be worth some money? Maybe the Asians would be stupid enough to buy them if you tout them as having more medicinal and sexual enhancing powers than rhino horns do!
But unlike rhinos they are not endangered. Infact they are so overpopulated they are destroying the ecosystem. Perhaps we need to consider culling the herd.
I agree, this planet should have about half the population that what we have now.
Elephants are also under assault. This is actually species genocide, make international laws, and send in the bounty hunters, quickly. If the the US can remote target terrorists, they can target poachers as well.
I agree!!! make it open season on poachers!!!
Execute ON THE SPOT any person caught poaching or/and preparing to kill these innocent animals. The souless B@ST@RDS are NOT worthy of living any longer......Kill 'Em ALL; Let God Sort 'Em out.
BETTER YET, Send in Bounty Hunters with a $50,000 reward for video of poacher in action, his head and weapon. Video shows these EVIL Beings as they work BEFORE they kill these rhinos
Thanks for reporting on this! Until recently the US news media hadn't been covering stories like this. Sure it is in South Africa but the survival of these precious animals affects us all!
Awareness must be raised so that such atrocities can be denounced!
For anyone seeking to help - google "saving private rhino".
I like the idea of poisoning the horns. As others have said, the only long-term solution is to eliminate the demand. If a rhino horn is worth $250,000 you can bet there will always be somebody figuring out a way to kill them. Let the word get around that rhino horn kills you, and I bet the price would drop pretty fast. No money, no poachers. Done and done.
BG-1026147 Actually yes they have, alot of times it gets drowned out by politics though. But, now that you are paying attention.....maybe you'll notice how many stories are out there about other species........It is becoming very alarming what Man is doing to its Wildlife populations. We are already reaching the point of no return on our fish populations crashing in our Oceans..........
I just watched Rock Center with Brian Williams - Rhino poaching. SIMPLY put I cried like a baby. I mean I sobbed for the Rhinos, but also for the loss of humanity with regard to this poaching! Kill anyone harming these precious animals. And blank those that believe rhino horn does anything for us stupid humans.
IWonder,
NO THEY ARE NOT!!! They are worse than the scum on the bottom of a shoe!! Kill anyone caught doing this!!
Execute any poachers on the spot!
Start killing them on the spot and you'll see poaching become a thing of the past. Frankly, anyone willing to kill an animal in such an abhorrant way deserves to have their own balls cut off.
I agree! Those poachers need to be executed on the spot!
This article made me sick to my stomach. I feel so strongly for this cause, along with the elephants. It is heartbreaking. We have to eliminate the demand for ivory. I can not imagine anyone wanting ivory from these majestic beings. Furthermore I can conceive how they can torture these animals. Yes kill all poachers on site!
Agreed, sandra. But it's also necessary to do something about the Asians who are fueling this horrific crime. (They are also making whales, dolphin, and tigers extinct.)
Skylark, I know what you are sying and agree. Although we all hear that the ivory and rhino horns is most likely going to ASIA. I would like hard statistics before I point fingers too much. I think we need to put humanitarian demands on these countries. I too follow the dolphins and whale efforts. Pure disgust. It really does bring me to tears.
The punishments have to take place on the supply and the demand side. Asian governments could do a lot to help, except their politicians have the Strauss-Kahn disease and are probably buyers, too. Making poaching a capital offense is good start as it will push the price up. In North America we have similar problems with poachers taking bald eagles for their feathers (Aboriginal demand) and bears for their paws and gall bladders (Asian demand).
The suppliers and buyers should be publicly thrown into a wood chipper.
ORB, I agree 150% with your post.
Agree.....kill the poachers on the spot!! I am sick and tired of everyone killing/capturing wild animals. Leave them alone and in the wild where they belong.
Poachers are nothing but cowards!!!
Poachers are killed when caught, but your trying to find these people in the dark in the middle of nowhere. It's a bad situation!
The Rhino's are just the TIP of the iceburg..........The shark population is crashing due to the demand of shark fin soup. The shark are caught have all their fins cut off and are thrown back into the ocean (alive).......
The Silver back Ape population is crashing because of the Asian demand for the properties from these Great Ape's, and the poachers can get 30k for just one DEAD animal.
The Elephant population is struggling because of the high demand for Ivory. They are killed like the Rhino's and left for dead, for no other reason than money.
People are right when they say they need to stop the demand. In China alone there is a very high demand for endangered species animals, used for medicines and foods that they use for their magical properties. What will they do when there are NONE left in the World??? What humanity has done to the other species that inhabit this earth will come back to haunt them, when this planet is NO LONGER habitable, because of its lust for money.
If the Rhino's survival is dependent on Asian government's enforcement, the Rhino is doomed. That are as corrupt as any in the world, and there is no accountability.
Personally, I would like to see a chemical solution. Find something that the Rhino's could ingest and contaminate the horn, turning those who ingest the power from the horn something nice, like testicular cancer.
Dale, that is discussed that in the article. Injecting the horn to make humans sick, but not the rhinos. That is the first time I heard of that. I hope they do that to all rhinos!
I thought asians were supposed to be smart. Tiger dicks, gorilla balls, rhino horns, shark fins, is there any trash part of any endangered animal these retards WON'T pay a million bucks to eat? Maybe instead of building iPads they should be going to school, maybe to learn that there is no such thing as magic? Or maybe they should just grow up and get over their obsession with having tiny asian epeens. No matter how "big" your economy gets, your little "buddy" is still going to be tiny. Rhino horn can't help you, deal with it.
And just where in the story did it ever mention rhino horn being used for anything sexual?
@Rick. It is not mentioned in the video but rhino horn is used by asians to enhance their sexual performance. But it has no effect since rhino horn is simply the protein keratin, which is the same stuff as human hair.
Care to provide any links to back up your claims? I have seen nothing except that it is a "common misconception" that it is used as an aphrodisiac. As for it's efficacy at treating anything else - Chinese scientific studies certainly seem to support the idea that it does have benefits.
Cornu Rhinoceri Asiatici: antipyretic, antioxidant, protein analysis - full article. And I'm sure that another 5 minutes of searching would find even more info - to bad that so many people won't even bother to put that much effort into looking into something.
There certainly are better alternatives to rhino horn (IMO) - And studies have shown water buffalo horn to be as effective (and much cheaper); but, some stubborn TCM practitioners believe that rhino horn is superior to all substitutes and they believe in it as a life-saving medicine. I certainly don't agree - but, hey - I haven't been around for thousands of years either.
Slavery has been around for thousands of years, too, but I don't need to be a slave to know that it's a bad idea. Why would you make excuses for people slaughtering endangered animals to use their body parts in magic potions? Got a side business in poaching, perhaps? Every person who takes this stuff, and every "practitioner" who dispenses it, shares the guilt for these crimes. As long as people perpetuate the myth that it's okay to use these things (or that they have any actual medicinal value), the killing will not stop.
I had a chinese "practitioner" tell me that eating mushrooms was the best cure for pneumonia because "penicillin comes from a fungus, you know?" Logic doesn't enter into it, any more than any other superstition, and it deserves no more respect or deference than the Tooth Fairy or that african prince who wants to email you a million dollars.
And where do you get that I was providing "excuses" for these abuses? If you read any of my posts (including the one above) you would realize that I do not support this. I was just correcting mistaken ideas. Do you think that it is OK to perpetuate lies and myths as long as it serves a good cause? If so, how is that radically different than other people promoting any other lie or myth that they think serves a good cause?
And certain mushrooms do indeed have proven anti-bacterial properties. And we are continually finding benefits in other medicines that have long been used in ancient cultures. So just because it doesn't fit in to your idea of logic, doesn't mean that it is of no value. Sorry, but scientific proof does not revolve around your obviously delicate sensibilities.
By the way, does your delicate sensibilities prevent you from using drugs available in the US that were tested on animals? The crimes of this cruelty will not stop until you do. What about the drugs that have been responsible for decimating the population of the very ancient horseshoe crab? Or do you feel that it is alright to nearly kill off an animal that has been around for about 450 million years - just not a rhino or elephant?
Correct, science revolves around science, and science says that "traditional" medicine is 99% useless and 1% coincidence. I suppose my references to saving endangered animals and such gave you this notion of my "delicate" nature. Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with killing animals, I just have a problem with stupidity. I read the "scientific" study you cited. It's from a joke of an institution whose job is to support the credibility of "traditional chinese medicine" and it has zero credibility. Your follow-up post seeks to gain further scientific credibility by referring to a wikipedia page. Futhermore, that wikipedia page (which you could have written, for all we know) doesn't even say what you claim it does. It says SOME studies have found SOME compounds in SOME mushrooms that MAY have anti-bacterial activity. This "discovery" is vague pseudo-science BS. Are the compounds in a biologically available form? Can the body absorb them through the stomach? Can they withstand digestive acid? Do they occur in useful concentrations (i.e., would I have to eat a truckload of mushrooms to get one dose)? This is not science, this is marketing. Keep making your excuses for these scam artists, and I'll keep taking the air out of it. I can do this all day.
Care to provide any links supporting such a lofty claim of what "science says?" Of course not. I have no problem hunting down better references; but, what's the point of doing so for someone who themselves doesn't want to be bothered with putting any effort into showing any support of his silly claims?
I agree with you about deploring stupidity. My point was that we can be just as stupid in our own actions. The hypocritical attitude of many on here sets my teeth on edge - thus my rants.
You do realize that many of our current medicines are plant based do you not? Drugs for everything from pain relief to cancer treatment are being derived from plant and animal sources. These drugs do not magically become beneficial once they have gained the imperial decree of science that they are indeed so. While science is indeed useful in discovering the what and why of a plant's effectiveness, they do not suddenly cause it to be effective. The NIH tests thousands of plants a year for beneficial properties; once a benefit is determined, it is often up to the pharmaceutical companies to determine which they wish to pursue. Many plants are shown to be beneficial, yet the companies do not decide to pursue them for various reasons.
What of the use of the Foxglove to treat edema since 1785? Did it truly only become effective over 100 years later once science decreed it to be so and used it to make digoxin? What of the bark of the willow tree? Was it really completely ineffective back in ancient Sumeria and similar cultures even before Hippocrates noted its benefits in the 5th century BC? Was it's use completely ineffectual for the Cherokee Indians who used it long before science discovered it's benefits in the 19th century when they extracted the active component and produced aspirin? I think not. And what of chiropractic? Was it truly ineffectual for the first 100+ years of it's existence - before the AMA was legally forced to change it's guidelines concerning it in the 1980's? Morris Fishbein - the former Secretary of the AMA - once called chiropractors deadly "rabid dogs," and likened them to an unscientific cult. Or perhaps chiropractic has only become effective in the past couple of years when studies have shown it to actually be effective.
As for the scientific studies from what you called a "joke of an institution" - well, I noticed that you failed to present any evidence contradicting their findings. Am I supposed to simply take your word for it? I don't think so. What credentials do you have to make your opinion of the institution any more credible than that of a bum on the corner?
Your child-like faith in the supremacy of western medical knowledge would be endearing were it not for your seemingly stubborn adherence to the idea that just because they haven't yet pronounced something as being beneficial - it therefore is not. I used to feel that way myself; but, the past dozen years or so have stripped me of that notion.
I've had medical problems for over 30 years now - yet for the first 20+ years, the doctors said that they could find nothing wrong. The doctors are still saying that they can find nothing else wrong. Even after my health crashed a dozen years ago, the doctors didn't believe anything was wrong - in spite of the fact that I had went from a highly functioning individual with a near photographic memory to a person incapable of remaining awake who had trouble remembering having a conversation 10 minutes after it ended. It was left up to me to search scientific data and medical reasearch for answers to my problems - and then I had to argue with doctors to even bother testing me for the conditions that I had found that could be the culprit behind my ill health. I frequently would have to switch doctor's over and over until I found one willing to test me (even if they did so reluctantly). The doctors even failed to find the cause of one of the problems I complained about until a golf ball sized growth appeared on my neck overnight (it still took them almost 10 weeks to test it) - it turned out that I had stage IV-C cancer. The doctors now have me on a dozen medications for various problems - all but two of which provide little noticeable benefit. Out of all the problems that tests have shown that I do indeed have - only one of them was actually discovered by the doctors first - it was something that I had yet shown no symptoms of that they found by accident while testing for something else. It is a sad state of affairs when a patient has to do the research, test, and diagnose himself - then argue with doctors to get medically tested - before he can get treatment for a problem.
I have used many supplements over the years to alleviate my symptoms - most of which provided little benefit (at least at the doses that I took for my particular generalized symptoms); yet, there are indeed some which have helped. Once I started researching my symptoms, I was better able to look for things to address specific problems (as opposed to my previous generalized approach) - and I have found more success. I am forced to use these supplements until I can wear down the doctor's resistance to test me for a specific problem - after which I can make use of better "real" medicines. But out of the 4 most effective things that I take - 2 are actual medicines and 2 are supplements.
So regardless of your particular objections - I stand by my belief that things can indeed be effective before medicine determines them to be so.
Oh, and get over yourself. You are not nearly as good at "taking the air out of" anything as you seem to think that you are. Your inflated opinion of your own capabilities has given me a chuckle though. Thanks
You miss the point. Of course some traditional remedies are useful, that would be the 1% coincidence I referred to. The point is, the fact that something is regarded as medicinal by some tradition or other should not be regarded as evidence that it is, because the traditional belief is not based on any reliable data. Yes, you could get your aspirin effect by drinking willow-bark tea. The point is, the only reason we know that any of these things work is because there has been some actual study to show it. Without scientific data, we would have to go through the hundreds of useless herbal cures to get to one that might actually have some benefit. Or you could just take an aspirin.
On a related note, just because a drug is derived from a plant or animal does not mean that plant or animal is medicinally useful in its natural form. Many of the plants used for medicines are poisonous in their natural form. Before recombinant technology allowed us to make it with bacteria, insulin from hogs' pancreas kept diabetics alive. This doesn't mean diabetics should eat more pork.
Oh I got your point perfectly, and I agree with your summary here (except for possibly the 1%). However, it seems that you still have failed to see the points that I was trying to make. Point one was that science's acknowledgement of a plant's beneficial properties - in and of itself - produces no change in the actual efficacy of the plant. My second point was that the failure of the pharmaceutical companies to invest the millions of dollars necessary to exploit a plant's benefits by bringing it to market also has no effect on the benefit that the plant may actually provide. The companies may simply feel that there is not a big enough market for a particular type of drug for them to recoup their investment - yet the people who could benefit from the drug still deserve to get some relief from their ailments. The companies may also decline to exploit a plant's benefits because similar (or better) drugs may already be on the market - yet people react to medicines differently and an alternative drug may provide an effect for some that may be more beneficial than a similar drug. I get more benefit from ibuprofen than I do from ketoprofen - whereas another may not (I usually do better with older medicines than the "new improved" ones). There is one medicine that is quite beneficial for me - yet, has largely dropped off of the market (in a convenient form) - so now I have to spend 30 minutes to take it in the only form left available instead of the 30 seconds it used to take - when they decide to drop production of that form, I will have nothing (there are no equivalent medicines that provide a benefit). My mother has a problem with bursitis; there was an old drug that took care of it for several years (it is no longer available) - she has to take the newer "better" drugs every six months, and they still aren't as effective for her. My point here is that the decisions of the pharmaceutical companies are motivated by profit (as is only natural); but, a lack of profit making potential does not invalidate the effectiveness of a substance.
Another thing to take into consideration is that the various compounds in a plant are usually tested individually; but, the maximum benefit that a plant provides may rest partially - or wholly - on the synergistic effect between the specific compound and various other phytochemicals normally available within the plant (or in a combination of plants). It can take dozens of years (if at all) for science itself to recognize this synergy.
I fully understand the benefits of medicines over natural remedies and the problems inherent in the use of herbal supplements (QC, standardization, etc.); but, I simply do not think that that warrants dismissing natural remedies out of hand. I have spent quite a bit of time and heartache arguing on forums with people who have been diagnosed with cancer and have decided to forgo established treatment in favor of traditional medicines - or worse yet, with people who have been conned into taking patently dangerous chemicals (ozone, caustic plant residues, a super reactive form of bleach, etc.); so I do not advocate natural remedies over actual medications (but neither do I dismiss their possible benefits). I do not generally rely on the purported benefits of traditional medicines - other than as a starting point for my research. I avail myself of actual scientific studies before making a choice; and I don't limit those studies to only those done in the US. I prefer to know the mechanism of action before I decide to try something; but, I do not believe in just sitting around waiting for scientific understanding to catch up and solve a problem.
My father was given 6 mo. to live with his cancer - a couple of years longer if he underwent standard treatment. The standard treatment fried his heart and killed him in 5 months. My aunt had the exact same kind of cancer (to the same extent) - she refused treatment and lived 5 years. The thing is that science was conducting trials on a drug that had already been FDA approved for treatment of a similar type of type of cancer - studies which had already shown a benefit for his type of cancer in trials conducted in Britain. American trials required that he not have attempted any other type of treatment previously. While I was trying to convince him to go for these trials, the doctors convinced him to take the standard treatment. My father didn't live long enough for the US trials to prove that this drug could indeed have been beneficial (just like the British studies had previously). He had three small spots on his lung that the doctors wrote off as representing metastasis - in spite of my showing them scientific research that had been done indicating that such a low number of small lesions was highly indicative of separate individual occurrences of cancer - not metastasis. If they had tested his cancer the way that was done in the research - and I was right, his diagnosis and treatment could have been vastly different.
It took medicine 26 years after the start of my problem to recognize that what I had been describing to them was indeed a legitimate condition; but, by this time it was to late for me. With a lack of treatment my health had crashed, causing many more problems to occur and persist in spite of the relatively successful treatment that I now have for the initial condition. The real kicker is that a simple, cheap, readily available medication and/or treatment (available for the common - but for me undetected - root cause of my problem) - given at anytime during the initial years of my symptoms - would have prevented the problems that I now have (and would have drastically improved the quality and course of my entire adult life). There are several supplements that could possibly have reduced the severity of the problem as well. If only the doctors hadn't simply written off my health complaints for all those years - I wouldn't be sitting here on disability now.
I apologize for my lengthy posts. It seems that I am no longer able to determine how to make my remarks short and concise. My point here is that there are many people who have problems that don't show up with conventional testing - or there may not be effective treatments currently available. These people still deserve to have a chance at improving their symptoms in any way possible. Yet with the current disdain that is showered down upon traditional treatments by the medical community, many people will never know or accept that they could possibly be of benefit. I don't claim to know how to get around the problems inherent in trying to figure out how we could change our system so that it might allow for, test, and regulate alternative treatments - my critical thinking skills are not what they used to be before the crash (I had once aced the Mensa exam); but, I do know that it would likely first require a paradigm shift in the attitude of the medical community. What a shame that such a shift is likely never to occur.
And thanks for the update on the use of bacteria. I hadn't been aware of the shift away from porcine produced insulin.
Yes, the recombinant technology has really revolutionized the bio-pharma industry. Insulin was first, no doubt because of the massive ready-made market, but they have used it now to make all sorts of proteins and enzymes like human growth hormone, estrogen, and lots of others. Talk about everyday sci-fi, who would have imagined that 50 years ago? Just mix up a vat of broth, throw in some modified bacteria, and bingo, you got 2 tons of insulin. Much easier than gutting a thousand pigs.
I think I understand your position. I think we are saying more or less the same thing, but from opposite angles.
LOL!!! Indeed it is!
The little that I am aware of in the field of bio-pharmacology has me very excited! It's silly, but I do get flushed when thinking of all the possibilities. I feel the very same way about nano-technology (more along the lines of my interests). We truly do live in wondrous times!
If you can understand where I'm coming from, then I do indeed think that we may be on the same page - at least close enough for government work.
Offer free viagra or whatever to these Asian egomaniacs and save the RHINO!!
I read they mix in viagra with the rhino horn powder, so it will work.
now this is what we need to call "war on terror"...let's save things that are worth saving....
I'd pay for a hunting license to kill a poacher.
Yeah Right on! I've hunted and fished my whole life. Always followed the rules, got my masters in wildlife biology. I'd glady pay the price for a liscense to whack the poachers. People don't get it that the greatest conservationest in the world is the legal hunter. It's the illegal ones that drag us all down in the dirt. We should start volunteering time to take a watch over the animals. god forbid some jackass came to take what I'm watching over...
To the Asians, let me tell it like it is... You are a Dumb MF if you think Rhino horn is going to give you a hard on. The ecological waste is upon your hands my you rot in hell!
Easier said than done. These people are like the Mexican drug lords. They are heavily, heavily armed, and have enough money and power that local police are too afraid to fight them. The guys going to gather the horns are probably no higher up the criminal ladder than the drug runners in Mexico. It's the organization of the poaching buisness that needs to be destroyed.
Kill the poachers on the spot. Make it too costly for them to poach then go after the middlemen and up the line.
Perhaps the WWF can approach the US government for the loan of a drone or two and set them up as live training excercises for our military. The messsage will soon get out, "Poach and get potted." We can post the videos of this instant justice on the net.
Kill every poacher on the spot. Now.
First cut off their penis then shoot them.
GAWD! Somebody educate the idiots who think that rhino horns and all the other animals parts are aphrodesiacs. Do it AFTER you have rounded them up and they are hanging upside down by their balls. Cheech!
Wel then you'd have to wipe out half of China, since many of these items go toward the sale of Chinese "medicines."
Wipe away!
Well think about it - anything long and hard is phallic... so sad, would love to have some of these poacher's heads on my wall...
They aren't taking these things as medicine in our modern, scientific sense of the word 'medicine'. They're treating rhino horns the way the chinese emperors use to thing gobbling jade and mercury would lead to immortality. It's a more spiritual kind of medicine. Telling them it won't actually do any medical good for them is not going to stop them from taking it.
I agree that we are not blameless here in the west, but in fact it is China that is mostly to blame for the current decimation of the rhino, elephants, and tigers. I would happily support armed force against them to try and protect what is left of the animal population, those the Chinese haven't killed off yet.
Take any poacher you catch, shove the horn up their A$$ and parade them to the world. After that, with the horn still stuck where the sun doesn't shine and put them in extremely close proximity with a rhino, however, wiothout a weapon. After that, if they survive, tether the poacher to the ground, using the rhino horn and let the ants or whatever have a snack. These marauders do not need to go to court or be punished by statute - they need the same kind of treatment as they are giving to some poor animals.
It would even be better if a living rhino were still attached to the horn when you shove it! Wouldn't need the rest of your statement!
Now that's a good idea, with the rhino still attached!!!
Kill the poacher
Let’s reverse this and shoot the poachers and harvest there
organs for transplant.
I'm pretty sure I don't want their guts in my body. leave them to rot to feed the food chain. Hyenas seam to be a good solution. dragout a few poachers and stake them down.
The Black Rhino is already extinct in the wild now they are threatening the white (wide ) Rhino.
More needs to be done to shut down the demand by pushing the truth, especially in southeast Asia and China, that rhino horn has no medical value... and that many horns have been treated with poison that will kill anyone who consumes them. Just trying to stop the poaching rings is a losing battle.
Infect the horns with a weaponized virus that affects only humans. That will cut demand. By the time you get done trying to gently shove the "truth" up peoples @$$, usually you have already lost the war.
It would be impossible to try educating those people because it is a myth about them having high IQs!
That's what the one woman said they do in the article if u read it Robin.
The Asians have been told over and over there is no benefit to Rhino horn powder. The same for ground up Tiger bones, monkey brains, etc. These cretins are plain, dumb, idiot mf'rs like someone else said, who believe in the old written "health doctrines" (fantasy writings) from hundreds of yrs. ago. No common sense and imho they will never change their ways. They won't stop until they destroy every living, beautiful creature that they believe will help them sexually or health wise. No trial for poachers. On the spot justice by any means of the imagination until they become extinct.
Again, why do people continue to think those Asians have high IQs? This article proves they don't.
This article said that there has been a spike in the poaching - they mentioned the new claim that it fights cancer (smart marketing move). It is amazing what people with a terminal illness will believe as they grasp at even the slimmest of possibilities if it gives them a glimmer of hope.
I have argued for days on end - with Americans - on threads dealing with cancer (I am a cancer survivor). I argue with those who are turning from conventional medicine that is not helping them to harmful "natural cures." It is amazing how desperately some people cling to the outrageous claims of the hucksters and snake oil salesmen that prey on them. I have tried to talk people away from continuing to use such "cures" as a super-reactive form of bleach (sold normally as a swimming pool and municipal water supply disinfectant) - this is usually taken orally; ozone therapy - taken both orally and intravenously, caustic chemicals - applied on the skin, and many other things that are dangerous or simply ineffectual. I have seen some of these hucksters selling products for hundreds of dollars when all they are made out of is a natural herb and a cream - things which can be bought in the same amount separately for under $1. I have linked to scientific and medical studies, repeatedly and patiently explained exactly how these things act in the body - and how they harm instead of doing good, and I have researched the individuals selling these products - showing their criminal records for fraud and the like (definitively proving many of their claims to be false); yet some of these people will not listen to reason - they are simply so desperate to live that they will keep a death grip on any straw that might possibly provide a little hope.
So, ignoring "common sense" and grasping for straws certainly is not restricted to Asian populations. I get furious thinking of those who take advantage of these people with their false claims; but, I also get irate at those who belittle them without having been in their shoes.
I have an Idea, let the government make a Rhino Farm, harvest the horns without killing the Rhino, and sell it to Asians.. collect taxes, employment for people and everyone is happy.. except of course, the poachers... oh well, can't make everyone happy.
and you can sell the product right next to the penis enlargement cream. Which I'm sure sells a lot in Asia.
Evidently not. How about making it extremely deadly for any unauthorized persons to be within 20 miles of animal preserves.
The rhino can't help that it is a little horny...just trying to lve life La Vida Loca....cut something off the poachers instead.
Cut off their heads and display them near the villages where the poachers lived.
The answer to this problem is, put a price on the poacher's head greater than the value of the horn. Make sure the bounty is for a dead poacher.
That might help.
If a bounty is placed on the head of the poachers, can you imagine the poachers shooting each other then? That would resemble punk gangland shootings like we have here in America! Hilarious!
I wonder if those here proposing capital punishment for these crimes against animals, would also support capital punishment for crimes against humans. The average eco-nut, generally being a liberal, likely opposes capital punishment for crimes against humans. Just wondering.
I am a hunter, but I would never hunt an animal species that is in danger of extinction. I do have to make the distinction though, that if you listen to the average eco-warrior type, they believe the entire ecosystem of the planet is in danger of becoming extinct, which is simply ridiculous.
Don't know if the average person here supports capital punishment, but I suspect that the average business-nut, likely being a conservative, supports the poaching as good economic practice; and probably supports capital punishment as long as their family isn't involved.
If you were truly a hunter, you would support good ecological practices... from your comment about "ecosystem of the planet", you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I suspect that you hunt pheasant on a game farm and elk tied to a tree.
You are completely irresponsible as a hunter if you believe the world's ecosystem is not at a critical point.
Actually, the ecosystem is in danger. And the rhino, elephants, tigers, etc are essentially already extinct and are victims of human evil. And I am a "liberal" who does support capital punishment for extreme cruelty and destructiveness as is displayed by the poachers and their clientele.
Carl Sagan, who I'm guessing was just a little bit smarter than anyone here, including you, said we need to think of the earth as a big spaceship hurling through space., and every species of plant and animal life on it is a screw, nut or bolt on the spaceship. One or two falls off, no big deal, but if more and more keep falling off, we're in big trouble. There isa big ecological impact to species going extinct. Not to mention the fact that the rhino has been around a lot longer than man on this earth, and to hunt it into extinction for such a stupid, worthless reason is unconscionable.
And I'm a conservative that supports capital punishment - but, I would prefer administering a punishment that fits the crime (suffering for having caused suffering). I think there have been several excellent suggestions made here.
MWP - I, being a general eco-nut liberal, am for Capital Punishment across the board for those that kill any being illegally and in such a brutal fashion. Sorry to disappoint your "theory."
I am a conservative that is for wildlife conservation....and I do believe that poaching is linked to terrorism. Capital punishment is a nice idea. But I think there needs to be an effort by many goverments in order for this to stop. Kinda like the piracy on the high seas problem. Where's the glorious UN on this issue? No where to be found. Of course the countries that want rhino horn are communist (China/Vietnam).
Let me guess.The chinese are involved heavily in this,just like they are in the rampant poaching of Elephants.I swear,The Chinese will end up raping and pillaging,so to speak, until there are no more Rhinos,Elepephants,Sharks...the list goes on.
That is not even enough for the Asians. They have established fur factories for the purpose of marketing dog and cat fur.
You guys act like we Americans are any better. Just look at the ruckus people make when you try to place restrictions on things here.
WTF r u talking about Rick? Just another example of blame America. Typical liberal spouting his mouth off.
Get over yourself vinny! What I'm talking about are people who put blame on everyone but themselves. I'm not blaming America for anything simply pointing out the self-righteous pomposity that so many people have been exhibiting on this thread. There appear to be so many people here who seem to think that their @!$%# doesn't stink.
If someone wants to talk about the problem - fine! If someone wants to put the blame on those who commit the crime - fine! But, the ignorant, bigoted comments blaming an entire group of people for something stinks of egotistical self-righteousness - and that simply pisses me off; especially when we ourselves our guilty of the same thing (raping and pillaging until there is nothing left, etc.).
I've been a Republican since my first vote for Reagan in 1980 - thank you, and I believe in taking responsibility for what I do. But hey, if thinking that everyone who doesn't think like you must be a "liberal" makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside - well, whatever get's you through the night.
Aw. Human,s the worst species in Earth. We push anything in our way to the brink of extinction because of our selfishness. I kinda look for the day when all of us die, and some howEarth still exist, so Earth can be like what it once was before we were in this planet. Animals can live in this planet with no problems, but we humans cannot. Can anyone please tell me why species that are supposedly more intelligent than anything else in this planet cannot live without destroying everything in our path?
You need to spend a little more time watching National Geographic. Crocodiles eat everything in their path. Lions, tigers, hyenas-whatever isn't too big for them to kill. Ants? Spraying poison in the eyes of crabs to kill them to eat them. Virtually every animal on earth kills something. The herbivores destroy grasslands and the rain forests. Get off you kick about evil humans. Yes, there are some evil ones out there. But, what Rhino has started a game preserve to save the Rhino from other carniverous animals. Do people just mouth whatever wacko tripe they heard last? Is there no intelligence left out there?
Rich, yes, predatory animals will kill other animals, to eat. For survival. Not for one little piece of their body for some kind of bogus superstition. The truth is, every creature on this earth does work out a sort of equilibrium with the environment around them. I even have a picture a friend sent me of cheetahs licking and playing with a baby gazelle that they were hunting and decided they weren't hungry enough to eat it. So they didn't. They played with it a while then let it go. Humans are the only species on the earth who consumes and consumes every resource to the point of extinction and depletion. We are supposed to be better, smarter stewards of this earth than that.
Is there any reason the majority of the horn can not be surgically removed , regularly by a Vet? If the horn can be poisoned, can it safely be removed? Is a live and disfigured animal better than a dead one?
I accidentally hit #19 reply, but I will just make my other comment here. It is more than ironic that the most over-populated area of the Earth finds it necessary to tell itself mythical stories about aphrodisiacs.
Maybe they should imprison the users. Oh, the users are the ones making the laws in China.
Doesn't help when a demonstration meant to reduce poaching kills a Rhino.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46329741/ns/us_news-environment/t/south-africa-rhino-dies-anti-poaching-procedure/#.T0Pl-Hkl_IY
Ok, what is the best way for us to help?
Well, you can start by boycotting ALL Chinese products, including no more trips to Wal mart ever, Chinese mega buffets etc, and stop paying for this. Because when you buy Chinese, these guys get rich and this is what they buy.
The article says Vietnam is wanting the horn now, hence the increase in demand. So don't buy Vietnam either? I'll go even further and say the problem is poverty. When you're willing to risk death for a one-time payday it's only to keep your family alive, nothing more. As long as the rich people won't help the poor people, this will happen. As long as there is cancer and not much education, people will demand--demand!--rhino horn if they think it will keep them alive a few years longer. Maybe it's best to support a more equitable distribution of resources and education, education, education.
I lay the blame directly on the market. Primarily it is the Asian markets that believe Rhino horns have magical powers. It's made of frickin hair people. Go cut your own hair and nails and you will have just as much magical powers as the dead Rhino gave you, but first, be sure someone puts you out of your misery in the same way.
When are these people going to come into the 21 Century?
Maybe when they look to the skies and see the light of a thousand suns, and feel the winds of change?
Why don't the preserves simply dehorn their rhinos and start their own market? The massive income generated can protect the rhino populations and cut the poachers' financial balls off at the same time by offering a consistent product to the Asian markets. The rhinos stay alive, are allowed to breed and regenerate the species and the poachers are put out of business. I'm sure the fanatical freaks who promote this stuff would LOVE to have it sold to them cheaper. Asians know the bargain when they see one and won't pay high black market prices to get a deal. I think any sane human being knows that as well. Besides, don't they realize they are eventually going to run out of product if they poach the rhino to extinction? What a bunch of dumb f***ers. I'm sure some Asian investors would pay big money to get involved financially with protecting the species so they can keep feeding their libidos AND they just might even kick in to help locate poachers and get rid of them, too. Money talks and poacher s**t walks. When they put a bounty on poacher heads, let me know. I'd love the target prectice.
Feeding their libido's, with horn powder that is mixed with viagra. I thought asians were smarter.
Why don't the Chinese raise their own animals? Because it is cheaper to steal them. And when people steal from the earth, they steal from us all. Have you ever met an Asian willing to part with money?
happy2008, Their high IQs are a myth, it's about time people realize that. The only reasons why people like Bill Gates have petitioned Congress to allow more of them to attend college here in America isn't because they're smarter than Americans, but because they will accept less compensation. Corporations like Microsoft benefit because it raises their profit margin then.
I wonder why more average Americans can't see this?
We should capture and bring all the Rhinos to the U.S and then deport all chinese just to be safe :p
We need to de-horn the rhino's and de-teeth the elephants. Too many asians on this planeth not caring for anything but themselves.
And their boners!