Mehdi Marizad / Fars via AP file
A car that was bombed by two assailants on a motorcycle in Tehran on Jan. 11, killing Iranian nuclear scientist Mostafa Ahamdi Roshan, is removed by a mobile crane. The photo was distributed by the semi-official Iranian photo agency Fars.
By Richard Engel and Robert Windrem
NBC News
Updated: 11:14 a.m. ET -- Deadly attacks on Iranian nuclear scientists are being carried out by an Iranian dissident group that is financed, trained and armed by Israel’s secret service, U.S. officials tell NBC News, confirming charges leveled by Iran’s leaders.
The group, the People’s Mujahedin of Iran, has long been designated as a terrorist group by the United States, accused of killing American servicemen and contractors in the 1970s and supporting the takeover of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran before breaking with the Iranian mullahs in 1980.
The attacks, which have killed five Iranian nuclear scientists since 2007 and may have destroyed a missile research and development site, have been carried out in dramatic fashion, with motorcycle-borne assailants often attaching small magnetic bombs to the exterior of the victims’ cars.
U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the Obama administration is aware of the assassination campaign but has no direct involvement.
The Iranians have no doubt who is responsible – Israel and the People’s Mujahedin of Iran, known by various acronyms, including MEK, MKO and PMI.
“The relation is very intricate and close,” said Mohammad Javad Larijani, a senior aide to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, speaking of the MEK and Israel. “They (Israelis) are paying … the Mujahedin. Some of their (MEK) agents … (are) providing Israel with information. And they recruit and also manage logistical support.”
Moreover, he said, the Mossad, the Israeli secret service, is training MEK members in Israel on the use of motorcycles and small bombs. In one case, he said, Mossad agents built a replica of the home of an Iranian nuclear scientist so that the assassins could familiarize themselves with the layout prior to the attack.
Much of what the Iranian government knows of the attacks and the links between Israel and MEK comes from interrogation of an assassin who failed to carry out an attack in late 2010 and the materials found on him, Larijani said. (Click here to see a video report of the interrogation shown on Iranian televsion.)
The U.S.-educated Larijani, whose two younger brothers run the legislative and judicial branches of the Iranian government, said the Israelis’ rationale is simple. “Israel does not have direct access to our society. Mujahedin, being Iranian and being part of Iranian society, they have … a good number of … places to get into the touch with people. So I think they are working hand-to-hand very close. And we do have very concrete documents.”
Two senior U.S. officials confirmed for NBC News the MEK’s role in the assassinations, with one senior official saying, “All your inclinations are correct.” A third official would not confirm or deny the relationship, saying only, “It hasn’t been clearly confirmed yet.” All the officials denied any U.S. involvement in the assassinations.
As it has in the past, Israel’s Foreign Ministry declined comment. Said a spokesman, "As long as we can't see all the evidence being claimed by NBC, the Foreign Ministry won't react to every gossip and report being published worldwide."
For its part, the MEK pointed to a statement calling the allegations “absolutely false.”
Response to article from the National Council of Resistance of Iran
Ali Safavi, a long-time representative of the MEK, underscored the denial after publication of this article,
"There has never been and there is no MEK member in Israel, period," he said. "The MEK has categorically denied any involvement. The idea that Israel is training MEK members on its soil borders on perversity. It is absolutely and completely false."
The sophistication of the attacks supports the Iranian claims that an experienced intelligence service is involved, experts say.
In the most recent attack, on Jan. 11, 2012, Mostafa Ahamdi Roshan died in a blast in Tehran moments after two assailants on a motorcycle placed a small magnetic bomb on his vehicle. Roshan was a deputy director at the Natanz uranium enrichment facility and was reportedly involved in procurement for the nuclear program, which Iran insists is not a weapons program.
Previous attacks include the assassination of Massoud Ali-Mohammadi, killed by a bomb outside his Tehran home in January 2010, and an explosion in November of that year that took the life of Majid Shahriari and wounded Fereydoun Abbasi-Davani, who is now the head of Iran’s Atomic Energy Organization.
In the case of Roshan, the bomb appears to have been a shaped charge that directed all the explosive power inside the vehicle, killing him and his bodyguard driver but leaving nearby traffic unaffected.
Although Roshan was directly involved in the nuclear program, working at the huge centrifuge facility between Tehran and Qom, Iran’s religious center, at least one other scientist who was killed wasn’t linked to the Iranian nuclear program, according to Larijani.
Speaking of bombing victim Ali-Mohammadi, whom he described as a friend, Larijani told NBC News, “In fact this guy who was assassinated was not involved in the nitty-gritty of the situation. He was a scientist, a physicist, working on the theoretically parts of nuclear energy, which you can teach it in every university. You can find it in every text.”
“This is an Israeli plot. A dirty plot,” Larijani added angrily. He also claimed the assassinations are not having an effect on the program and have only made scientists more resolute in carrying out their mission.
Not so, said Ronen Bergman, an Israeli commentator and author of “Israel’s Secret War with Iran” and an upcoming book tentatively titled, “Mossad and the Art of Assassination.”
Bergman said the attacks have three purposes, the most obvious being the removal of high-ranking scientists and their knowledge. The others: forcing Iran to increase security for its scientists and facilities and to spur “white defections.”
He explained the latter this way: “Scientists leaving the project, afraid that they are going to be next on the assassination list, and say, ‘We don't want this. Indeed, we get good money, we are promoted, we are honored by everybody, but we might get killed. It isn't worth it. Maybe we should go back to teach … in a university.’”
There are unconfirmed reports in the Israeli press and elsewhere that Israel and the MEK were involved in a Nov. 12 explosion that destroyed the Iranian missile research and development site at Bin Kaneh, 30 miles outside Tehran. Among those killed was Maj. Gen. Hassan Moghaddam, director of missile development for the Revolutionary Guard, and a dozen other researchers. So important was Moghaddam that Ayatollah Khamenei attended his funeral.
Unlike the assassinations, Iran claims the missile site explosion was an accident; the MEK, meanwhile, trumpeted it but denied any involvement.
Indeed, there may be other covert operations carried out either by Israel acting alone or in concert with others, according to Bergman.
“Two labs caught fire,” said Bergman, enumerating the attacks. “Scientists got blown up or disappeared. A missile base and the R&D base of the Revolutionary Guard exploded some time ago, with the director of the R&D division of the Revolutionary Guard being killed along with … his soldiers.”
Bergman added, “So, a long series of … something that was termed by an Israeli (Cabinet) minister … as ‘mysterious mishaps’ happening and rehappening to the project. Then the Iranians claim, ‘This is Israeli Mossad trying to sabotage our attempts to be a nuclear superpower.’”
Dr. Uzi Rabi, director of the Dayan Center at Tel Aviv University, said the supposed accidents could all be part of “psychological warfare” conducted against Iran. “It seems logical. It makes sense,” he said of possible MEK involvement, “and it’s been done before.”
Rabi, who regularly briefs Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, on Iran also said the ultimate goal of the range of covert operations being carried out by Israel is “to damage the politics of survivability … to send a message that could strike fear into the rulers of Iran.”
For the United States, the alleged role of the MEK is particularly troublesome. In 1997, the State Department designated it a terrorist group, justifying it with an unclassified 40-page summary of the organization’s activities going back more than 25 years. The paper, sent to Congress in 1994, was written by Wendy Sherman, now undersecretary of state for political affairs and then an aide to Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.
The report, which was obtained by NBC News, was unsparing in its assessment. “The Mujahedin (MEK) collaborated with Ayatollah Khomeini to overthrow the former shah of Iran,” it said. “As part of that struggle, they assassinated at least six American citizens, supported the takeover of the U.S. embassy, and opposed the release of the American hostages.” In each case, the paper noted, “Bombs were the Mujahedin's weapon of choice, which they frequently employed against American targets.”
“In the post-revolutionary political chaos, however, the Mujahedin lost political power to Iran's Islamic clergy. They then applied their dedication to armed struggle and the use of propaganda against the new Iranian government, launching a violent and polemical cycle of attack and reprisal."
Sean Gallup / Getty Images file
Maryam Rajavi, president of the National Council of Resistance of Iran, greets several hundred Iranian expatriates who had gathered to welcome her at Tegel Airport in Berlin, Germany, on March 22, 2010.
U.S. officials have said publicly that the information contained in the report was limited to unclassified material, but that it also drew on classified material in making its determination to add the MEK to the U.S. list of terrorist organizations.
The MEK and its sister organizations have since the beginning been run by Massoud and Maryam Rajavi, a husband-wife team who have maintained tight control despite assassination threats and internal dissent. Massoud Rajavi, 63, founded the MEK, but since the U.S. invasion of Iraq has taken a backseat to his wife.
The State Department report describes the Rajavis as “fundamentally undemocratic” and “not a viable alternative to the current government of Iran.”
One reason for that is the MEK’s close relationship with Saddam Hussein, as demonstrated by this 1986 video showing the late Iraqi dictator meeting with Massoud Rajavi. Saddam recruited the MEK in much the same way the Israelis allegedly have, using them to fight Iranian forces during the Iran-Iraq War, a role they took on proudly. So proudly, they invited NBC News to one of their military camps outside Baghdad in 1991.
“The National Liberation Army (MLA), the military wing of the Mujahedin, conducted raids into Iran during the latter years of the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq War,” according to the State Department report. The NLA's last major offensive reportedly was conducted against Iraqi Kurds in 1991, when it joined Saddam Hussein's brutal repression of the Kurdish rebellion. In addition to occasional acts of sabotage, the Mujahedin are responsible for violent attacks in Iran that victimize civilians.”
“Internally, the Mujahedin run their organization autocratically, suppressing dissent and eschewing tolerance of differing viewpoints,” it said. “Rajavi, who heads the Mojahedin’s political and military wings, has fostered a cult of personality around himself.”
The U.S. suspicion of the MEK doesn’t end there. Law enforcement officials have told NBC News that in 1994, the MEK made a pact with terrorist Ramzi Yousef a year after he masterminded the first attack on the World Trade Center in New York City. According to the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, Yousef built an 11-pound bomb that MEK agents placed inside one of Shia Islam’s greatest shrines in Mashad, Iran, on June 20, 1994. At least 26 people, mostly women and children, were killed and 200 wounded in the attack.
That connection between Yousef, nephew of 9-11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, and the MEK was first reported in a book, “The New Jackals,” by Simon Reeve. NBC News confirmed that Yousef told U.S. law enforcement that he had worked with the MEK on the bombing.
In recent years, the MEK has said it has renounced violence, but Iranian officials say that is not true, that killings of Iranians continue. Still, through some deft lobbying, the group has been able to get the United Kingdom and the European Union to remove it from their lists of terrorist groups.
The alleged involvement of the MEK in the assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists provides the U.S. with a cloak of deniability regarding the clandestine killings. Because the U.S. has designated the MEK as a terrorist organization, neither military nor intelligence units of the U.S. government, can work with them. “We cannot deal with them, “ said one senior U.S. official. “We would not deal with them because of the designation.”
Iranian officials initially accused the Israelis and MEK of being behind the attacks, but they have since added the CIA to the list. Three days after the Jan. 11, 2012, bombing in Tehran that killed Roshan, the state news agency IRNA reported that Iran’s Foreign Ministry had sent a diplomatic letter to the U.S. claiming to have “evidence and reliable information” that the CIA provided “guidance, support and planning” to assassins directly involved in the attack.
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton immediately denied any connection to the killings. “I want to categorically deny any United States involvement in any kind of act of violence inside Iran,” Clinton told reporters on the day of the attack.
But at least two GOP presidential candidates have no problem with the targeting of nuclear scientists. In a November debate, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich endorsed “taking out their scientists,” and former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum called it, ”a wonderful thing.”
The MEK’s opposition to the Iranian government also has recently earned it both plaudits and support from an odd mix of political bedfellows.
A group of former Cabinet-level officials have joined together to support the MEK’s removal from the official U.S. Foreign Terrorist Organization list, even taking out a full-page ad last year in the New York Times calling for the removal of the MEK from the U.S. terrorist list. Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, former U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey, former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton; former Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, former FBI Director Louis Freeh and former Rep. Patrick Kennedy were among those whose signatures were on the ad.
“There’s an extraordinary group of bipartisan or even apolitical leaders, military leaders, diplomats, the United States … the United Kingdom, the European Union, even a U.S. District Court in Washington, said that this group that was put on the foreign terrorist organization watch list in 1997 doesn’t deserve to be there,” Ridge said in November on “The Andrea Mitchell Show” on MSNBC TV.
U.S. politicians also have been pushing the U.S. government to protect the 3,400 MEK members and their families at Camp Ashraf in Iraq, about 35 miles north of Baghdad. With the departure of U.S. troops, the MEK feared that Iraqi forces, with encouragement from Iran, would attack the camp, leading to a bloodbath. At the last minute, however, agreement was brokered with the United Nations that would permit the MEK members’ departure for resettlement in unspecified democratic countries. As of this week, there’s been little movement on the planned resettlement.
Jassim Mohammed / AP file
Iranian fighters with the National Liberation Army, the military wing of the MEK, clean armored personnel carriers in 1997 after a field exercise near Camp Ashraf in Iraq.
The Iranians see what’s happening as terrorism and hypocrisy by the United States. They have forwarded documents and other evidence to the United Nations – and directly to the United States, they say.
“I think this is very cynical plan. This is unacceptable,” said Larijani. “This is a bad trend in the world. Unprecedented. We should kill scientists … to block a scientific program? I mean this is disaster!”
Daniel Byman, a professor in the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University and also a senior fellow with the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution, said that if the accounts of the Israeli-MEK assassinations are accurate, the operation borders on terrorism.
“In theory, states cannot be terrorist, but if they hire locals to do assassinations, that would be state sponsorship,” said Byman, author of the recent book, “A High Price: The Triumphs and Failures of Israeli Counterterrorism.” “You could argue that they took action not to terrorize the public, the purpose of terrorism, but only the nuclear community. An argument could also be made that degrading the program means that you don’t have to take military action and thus, this is a lower level of violence and that really these are military targets, where normally terrorist targets are civilians.”
But ultimately, Byman said, there is a “spectrum of responsibility” and that Israel is ultimately responsible.
Ronen Bergman, while not speaking on behalf of the Israeli government, suggests that there is a justification, citing an oft-repeated but disputed quote in which Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s said that Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth.
“Meir Degan, the chief of Mossad, when he was in office, hung a photograph behind him, behind the chair of the chief of Mossad,” notes the Israeli commentator. “And in that photograph you see -- an ultra-orthodox Jew -- long beard, standing on his knees with his-- hands up in the air, and two Gestapo soldiers standing -- beside him with guns pointed at him. One of -- one of them is smiling.
“And Degan used to say to his people and the people coming to visit him from CIA, NSA, et cetera, ‘Look at this guy in the picture. This is my grandfather just seconds before he was killed by the SS,’” Bergman said. “’… We are here to prevent this from happening again.’"
Richard Engel is NBC News' chief foreign correspondent; Robert Windrem is a senior investigative producer.
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This is a totally untrue article. The MEK have absolutely nothing to gain from killing Iranian scientists, if they were going to target anyone it would have to be top Iranian officials.
This has the nasty smell of the Iranian regime and possibly scientists that it wishes to get rid off for one reason or another, or even more twisted (but very likely) planting bombs and carrying attacks to discredit its opposition who is pursuing legal action in the US to be removed from the American terror list, something which was done by the EU many years - why would they jeopardise that after all this time? Get real MSBC - you are seriously barking up the wrong tree!!!!
You need to read more about the MEK
Israel and Proxy Terrorism
By Robert Wright
Feb 13 2012, 8:43 AM ET 82
Should Israel be classified as a state sponsor of terrorism? That question is being debated in the wake of a story that NBC News broke late last week.
link to theatlantic.com
Friday, Feb 10, 2012 8:59 AM Eastern Standard Time
Israel, MEK and state sponsor of Terror groups
link to salon.com
One of the most under-reported political stories of the last year is the devoted advocacy of numerous prominent American political figures on behalf of an Iranian group long formally designated as a Terrorist organization under U.S. law. A large bipartisan cast has received substantial fees from that group, the Mojahedin-e Khalq (MEK), and has then become their passionate defenders. The group of MEK shills includes former top Bush officials and other Republicans (Michael Mukasey, Fran Townsend, Andy Card, Tom Ridge, Rudy Giuliani) as well as prominent Democrats (Howard Dean, Ed Rendell, Bill Richardson, Wesley Clark). As The Christian Science Monitor reported last August, those individuals “have been paid tens of thousands of dollars to speak in support of the MEK.” No matter what one thinks of this group – here is a summary of its activities – it is formally designated as a Terrorist group and it is thus a felony under U.S. law to provide it with any “material support.”
Iranian group’s big-money push to get off US terrorist list
SPECIAL INVESTIGATION: A roster of influential former US officials is speaking at rallies in support of removing the MEK, an Iranian opposition group with a violent anti-American history, from the US terrorist list. A decision is expected within weeks.
link to csmonitor.com
Now this is a very interesting article
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/02/israel-and-proxy-terrorism/252971/
Israel and Proxy Terrorism
By Robert Wright
Feb 13 2012, 8:43 AM ET 83
Should Israel be classified as a state sponsor of terrorism? That question is being debated in the wake of a story that NBC News broke late last week.
Citing unnamed US officials, NBC reported that Israel has used an Iranian opposition group to carry out those much-publicized assassinations of Iranian scientists. The group in question is the M.E.K. (Mojahedin-e Khalq, or People’s Mujahedin of Iran), which since 1997 has been designated a terrorist group by the United States because of its alleged assassinations of US citizens.
The argument for considering Israel a supporter of terrorism comes in two varieties:
1) According to NBC, Israel gives the M.E.K. the funding, training, and weapons to carry out the assassinations–and that would seem to constitute support for a terrorist group.
2) Leaving aside the M.E.K. involvement, there’s the argument that the assassinations inherently constitute terrorism. Andrew Sullivan and Kevin Drum had previously suggested that whoever is behind the assassinations is committing terrorism, but this NBC story is the first mainstream media corroboration of the widespread suspicion that Israel is behind them.
After the NBC story broke, Paul Pillar, a former CIA official who teaches at Georgetown, dusted off the definition of terrorism used by the US government for purposes of keeping statistics: “premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against non-combatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents.” That, says Pillar, is what these assassinations are.
As far as believing what MS-NBC states, is far from believable, since they are a Liberal news media. I listen to 100% and believe maybe 25% from MS-NBC and the rest of the media outlets! As far as that goes, journalist now a days are a joke. Our media is nothing like it use to be 20-30 years and farther back. You could believe back then, because stories were verified. Today, you have the government tell the media what it wants us to know. Listening to news from outside the USA is entirely different. So ,you have to weed out the BS and come up with some logical facts or story. Some people can't and don't know how to read between the lines. What it states is the gospel to them, the masses and some other fairly smart people. Don't believe everything, you can prove any way you want depending what side you sit on!
U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the Obama administration is aware of the assassination campaign but has no direct involvement.
And this is to be considered news? Anonymous?
Great journalism. Not.
Iranian officials initially accused the Israelis and MEK of being behind the attacks, but they have since added the CIA to the list. Three days after the Jan. 11, 2012, bombing in Tehran that killed Roshan, the state news agency IRNA reported that Iran’s Foreign Ministry had sent a diplomatic letter to the U.S. claiming to have “evidence and reliable information” that the CIA provided “guidance, support and planning” to assassins directly involved in the attack.
Could it be? Not our government. Using our military? No.
and you believe that Iran is always the truthful party?
these are the guys that torture their own citizens into televised false confessions.
You make the victims to murders and the murders to victims with reports like this!
Where is a similar report about 70 hanged people in Iran this year alone, 16 of them in public? Where is the report about the Evin prison? What about Gohardasht? No informations about the gross human rights violations in Camp Ashraf (irak) since 3 years and for dacades against familiy members of the MEK in Iran.
Do you really think that Israel would allow to slaughter their "great ally" MEK in two major attaks 2009 and 2011 (one before the withdrawl of the US) when the MEK is so important for Israel? Why don't they protect them with UN forces or their Mossad or simply with US Troops at this place when them needed them so much, as your report suggest?
80% of tihs article are baseless allegations (mostly from annonymus and regime officials) and the rest are things that are so long ago that my grandfather could tell me about it.
The modern MEK is totally different, no violence anymore, Ashraf was voluntarily dismarmed over a decade ago (on words about it in this article!). They only try to get recognised as a legal opposition group and all the court decisions from GB, EU to the US said, that they have this right cause they are not terrorists. The only designation is in the US (Iraq and Iran too, we don't have to think about a secound why!) and its only a political decision and thats the only reason for this report cause a court ordered their removal and it is a strong support in the world to do that, because it is not legal, immoral and not an issue of a democratic system to put a group on a terrorlist to do a favor for the mullahs in the apeasement times!
If the State Department have evidence so why the secound highest court in the US said there is on evidence?
Noneless, maybe another TV Station should better examine how much money the regime will spend for buying reporters, TV stations, Parts of the State Department (not only in the US!) and Politicians. You will get many results, i think and it would explain many of the "articles" against the MEK i'am pretty sure.
If the story the sources are telling is factual, then only ONE THING IS TRUE. Iran was telling the truth about Israeli involvement in the scientist’s deaths and Israel was lying when they denied their involvement in the scientist's deaths. Truth tellers and liars. Either way, that's all we have.
I don't agree with terrorism, but talk about throwing gas on the fire. Iran never needs a reason to include the US in any problems/attacks on them. For Brian Williams to go ahead and report this is almost treasonous. They're already riled up enough. Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut.
Wasn't Iran in the triad of evil? So unless Iran cleans up their act and decides to join the "civilized" world I'm not blaming the Israelis for their preemptive strikes.
you know, its so canny how any comment that sounds like its coming from the right side or in any defense of Israel is being censored and even deleted in some cases.
I would be surprised if this comment was treated the same.
In the first place, Israel is defending itself the way the US would. Israel is not a terrorist. Terrorism is the killing of a massive number of un-involved innocent citizens. These scientists are very much involved, and these are specific targeted assassination.
Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, and Al-Qaeda are firing over 10,000 rockets into Israel a year, and this does not make MSNBC headlines. But when Israel does limited, targeted assassinations in self-defense, they are labeled as terrorists.
Alarming article. I wonder what has been left out? It is impossible to get the whole picture, and very easy to say "These are the bad guys - those are the good guys". I am posting this to increase awareness. Then people who know more about the subject can chime in and inform me better.
one must remember when dealing with Iran , your not dealing with a person who is sane and has good morals or ethics, your dealing with a psychotic nut and those type you cant reason with. if you think the little general of Iran wont use a nuclear weapon on any other country that has nukes you dead wrong. Because hes a nut job who is a Muslim extremist and who places no value on a human life, and will do anything to employ his cause, at the present he knows he cant wipe Israel off the face of the earth, but how ever if he were to obtain a nuclear weapon and use it before Israel uses there's then there is a good chance he could wipe Israel out. lets not wait till the little general gets a nuclear bomb to see if he'll use it or not
I love your show and the stories you tell. I was very moved by Harry Smith's story on the rhinos.
I agree that this article has a pro-Iranian government tainted but lets go a little further as i heard mention "the enemy of my enemy?" that comically i relate as "the enemy of my enemy?" who is "the enemy of my enemy?", who is the friend of "the enemy of my enemy?", who is "the enemy of my enemy?" which relates the common view of what duplicates the fears generated by the secret treaties of mutual defense that proceeded WWI WWII and which characterize modern foreign policy where none of the parties are trusted, nor should be trusted:
This was a view advanced by Alex Jones, who was attacked by whom is alleged to be Anonymous, whom attacked Assad in Syria, which was attacked by Clinton-Obama Israel, where we can recreate the very real paranoia of international conspiracy theorists, in what are very real international conspiracies where the lack of transparency feeds the fires much as if during the Cold War the US and USSR could not verify questions of nuclear ability.
Where the create an online cottage industry of fear that MSN and its "sic "writers" exploit as a cheap source of content that generally is not worth the printing.
conveniently leaving out the "Bush" in between. just another politlcal troll with nothing of any intelligence to say
Oh course GW Bush was included in the equation of American -Western politics where there a very real problem of political financing and lack of transparency your allusion to trolling is the black kettle calling the pot black unfortunately these issues are not properly discussion in American politics that I characterize as partisan rah rah football diplomacy/.
Does anyone recall that Israel has spied on the US its ally? Or is anyone here old enough to recall what the Isrealis did to the USS Liberty a US Naval vessel? Does anyone know the power and influence AIPAC, one the most powerful lobbies in the US, has on our foreign policy decisions when it comes to ME policy? And, does anyone recall the rediculous standinig ovations Netanyahu received recently in his last speech before the US Congress? He seemed to be more popular than the President or any other member of Congress. This is sad and unfortunate. We the people need to know the full truth behind the actions of our allies if it causes us to commit to unjust and illegal wars and our government owes it to us to inform us of that fact. Our foreign policy history over the last part of the 20th century has blood on our hands as we pursued a policy guided by corporate and personal greed. Time for Americans to stand back and re-evaluate where we want our nation to be going from here on out!
OK, now what is this weird, imaginary connection to Israel?
did you know that "loose association" is a symptom of schizophrenia?
If Israel is supporting them, at the end of the day we are dealing with that country's bid at self-preservation. The world is definitely NOT a safer place with an Iran that has nuclear arms capabilities. Imagine having a closely neighboring country that publicly preaches the extinction of your country and all of it's citizens. Then imagine that country actually acquiring the capabilities to carry out that threat.
As a people, the Jews have been the most persecuted and condemed in all of human history. The Assyrians constantly attacked and looted them, Egyptians tortured and enslaved them, the Romans dominated and humiliated them, the German's and the Russians almost completely exterminated them, and sadly, anti-semitism still exists today. From it's creation by the United Nations in 1948, the new nation of Israel has ALWAYS been a target of attacks by all of it's Arab (and non-Arab, as in Iran) neighbors. The 6 day war in 1967, the multitude of terrorist attacks against Israeli citizens both in Israel and abroad are evidence that the war against Israel, though more "covert" of late, is very much at hand.
When dealing with the survival of its people and their way of life, a country is faced with difficult decisions. While I don't condone terrorism or terrorists, I do agree with a previous post that in this particular instance, when dealing with direct targeting of, what anyone would consider, "military" targets....it isn't really terrorism.
We all must be diligent and informed. If evidence shows that any nation seeks to "wipe any people from the face of the earth," it is our DUTY to oppose them.
why would Arubs come all the way to america start a war with america, by bombing a subway/hijacking.?Just to bomb Israel???? it would have been cheaper,and more in there interest , to fly the plain into israel first.... 911 was in Israelis qu. to dismantle the middle east. for israel. they bomb us now they get a united israelie middle east.
Sounds just like our "so called" ally - like when a jet crashed back in the 80's containing military weapons, as reported in the national news, it was from Israel destined for the MEK during the Iranian Revolution, all while they were holding AMERICAN hostages, both civilian and military. This was not the only jet with Israel weapons destined for the the terrorists that murdered American citizens and held others hostage, it was the only one that crashed.
Clearly, the Israeli's and Zionists do not care about AMERICAN lives, either civilian or military. Both, U.S. Generals Mullins and Petreaus have stated this during our "conflicts" in the Middle East, which all seem to benefit the Israeli's, as it is clearly not Americans that are in danger.
It was a disgrace then and as it is now - Israel is not our ally. We are the tail and they are the dog. As seen in a political cartoon, we have become the United States of Israel, as it showed an American flag with a single Star of David instead of the 50-stars.
This must be true, as every elected American President, Senator, Congressman, and Governor; or candidate, has taken the required trip to Israel for indoctrination and orientation. They all must bow down to the self proclaimed Chosen People, and take allegiance to a fanatical and paranoid people, who sadly, and pathetically, use the suffering of their ancestors to justify their actions.
If every group of people, from the American Indians, to the African Americans, to the Poles, Italians, Africans, Armenians, etc. took their suffering and Holocausts to the degree of the Zionists; for want of revenge, restitution, and vow of "never again", this world would be in utter chaos and death.
And now you have American citizens, suppose leaders, that want to have the MEK taken off the TERRORIST ORGANIZATION LIST - so that we can look the other way while ISRAEL, the country that complains and murders innocent lives in the name of anti-terrorism, can use the MEK, the SAME organization that murdered AMERICANS, to murder innocent lives in the notion that Iran wants to "wipe them off the face of the earth" - which was not the actual quote by the Iranian president, it was "IF Israel does not stop murdering innocent Palestinians, and it's neighbors, than it should be forced to stop".
maybe not, but it WAS the one supplied by the Iranian english-speaking media
oh, and their supreme leader HAS stated that Israel has to be destroyed far more recently. conversely, the same leader has also stated that nuclear weapons are a sin, so maybe they will come around
Looks like if anyone has a causus belli it is Iran. Also, how can Santorum, who is a devout Catholic and doubtless believes in the 10 Commandments, call murder a "wonderful thing?"
because his big sky daddy can beat up their big sky daddy!
nyaah nyaah nyaah!
Ok, let’s see if we can make this discussion real...
Picture yourself surrounded by a gang of 10 -15 who are determined to kill you. You are strong, and well versed in self-defense tactics, so they cannot simply overwhelm you with brute force (picture a Bruce Lee movie where he takes down each with martial art moves) - Ok, so anyway, they are unable to simply overpower you. But, they have guns! Problem is, they have no bullets for their guns. Then around the corner comes the "Ammo Man" with plenty of nice deadly bullets. What do you do? The answer is, you kill him and take the bullets!
Israel knows that under the current US president, they are on their own and have to do whatever is needed to stop Iran from getting bullets (nuclear weapons). The friend of my enemy is my enemy. The scientists working on developing nuclear weapons for Iran are "friends" of the Islamic Terror State of Iran and therefore (in my humble opinion) enemies of Israel. They are therefore fair game in this battle.
I know already that someone will argue that perhaps they were being forced to cooperate. That may be true, but so were the passengers on Flight 93, but they decided to make a stand and stop the terrorists by sacrificing their own lives. What most of the "Anti-Israel" posters seem not to understand is that if Iran gets the ability to launch a nuclear strike against Israel, they WILL do it, and this WILL trigger an Armageddon type world war. Against that, a few dead scientists seem like a sad but necessary price to be paid.
We should severe ties with Israel immediately for dealing with a terrorist group. End of story.
I have to laugh at the ignorance and immaturity exhibitied by the posters on this thread. Of course countries support anyone who serves a purpose. The Soviets were our butt buddies from 1941-1945 and then suddenly became our boogeyman, and our former enemies, the Japanese and Germans became our closest allies. Grow up kiddies. The world is a big bad place. We can claim the moral high ground but it is and always has been sand beneath our feet. FDR said of Samoza Sr. the dictatorial leader of Guatamala...when an advisor called Samoza a bastard, FDR replied, "Yes, but he's OUR bastard." It has been and will always be the same for every nation. Indeed the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Period. The Israelis are doing what is in their best interest and ours too. I am sure the Israelis remember the years between 1939 and 45 and the way the US came rushing to the aid of Jewry in Europe...oh wait, we didn't. All it takes is to get a Muslimophile like Barry in the Whitehouse and we toss them to the Jihad bus. Barry is scum who wants nothing more than to break what he sees is the post-colonial power of the US by bringing us down to the level of the third world. That was the Dream From His Father that his daddy issues compel him to pursue. If there was ever someone in need of some therapy its Barry and Michelle. One has a missing daddy worship problem, the other has deep seated insecurity and inadequacy issues compounded by her field hand figure and kartaufelstumper legs. What a First Family we put in place. Its a national embarassment and the rest of the world is laughing.
It is funny that Israel chants their favorite Mantra, "Muslim Terrorism, Iran, particularly, has no qualms in using their own, home grown variety, to assassinate anyone they consider as dangerous to their safety and security.
I wrote a comment, just a few minutes ago on Foreign Policy (Blog).
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coggocog
"How come nobody told me that US foreign policy would not affect the 2012 presidential and congressional elections, before (I made fool of myself) in front of millions of Sunday TV junkies?"
The famous last words of warmongering gorilla, BN.
Rosh Hashanah, Jewish New Year, happened to be on Sunday, September 16, 2012.
"Israel fears conflict with Iran as Jewish New Year comes." ABC News WJTA
...and I am Sid Harth@mysistereileen.com
I suppose you support "running the jews into the sea" also?
Oh, I get it. We're fighting a War On Certain Kinds of Terror. Our own terror attacks are fine. It all makes sense now. Maybe we're really fighting a War On Peace?