Mehdi Marizad / Fars via AP file
A car that was bombed by two assailants on a motorcycle in Tehran on Jan. 11, killing Iranian nuclear scientist Mostafa Ahamdi Roshan, is removed by a mobile crane. The photo was distributed by the semi-official Iranian photo agency Fars.
By Richard Engel and Robert Windrem
NBC News
Updated: 11:14 a.m. ET -- Deadly attacks on Iranian nuclear scientists are being carried out by an Iranian dissident group that is financed, trained and armed by Israel’s secret service, U.S. officials tell NBC News, confirming charges leveled by Iran’s leaders.
The group, the People’s Mujahedin of Iran, has long been designated as a terrorist group by the United States, accused of killing American servicemen and contractors in the 1970s and supporting the takeover of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran before breaking with the Iranian mullahs in 1980.
The attacks, which have killed five Iranian nuclear scientists since 2007 and may have destroyed a missile research and development site, have been carried out in dramatic fashion, with motorcycle-borne assailants often attaching small magnetic bombs to the exterior of the victims’ cars.
U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the Obama administration is aware of the assassination campaign but has no direct involvement.
The Iranians have no doubt who is responsible – Israel and the People’s Mujahedin of Iran, known by various acronyms, including MEK, MKO and PMI.
“The relation is very intricate and close,” said Mohammad Javad Larijani, a senior aide to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, speaking of the MEK and Israel. “They (Israelis) are paying … the Mujahedin. Some of their (MEK) agents … (are) providing Israel with information. And they recruit and also manage logistical support.”
Moreover, he said, the Mossad, the Israeli secret service, is training MEK members in Israel on the use of motorcycles and small bombs. In one case, he said, Mossad agents built a replica of the home of an Iranian nuclear scientist so that the assassins could familiarize themselves with the layout prior to the attack.
Much of what the Iranian government knows of the attacks and the links between Israel and MEK comes from interrogation of an assassin who failed to carry out an attack in late 2010 and the materials found on him, Larijani said. (Click here to see a video report of the interrogation shown on Iranian televsion.)
The U.S.-educated Larijani, whose two younger brothers run the legislative and judicial branches of the Iranian government, said the Israelis’ rationale is simple. “Israel does not have direct access to our society. Mujahedin, being Iranian and being part of Iranian society, they have … a good number of … places to get into the touch with people. So I think they are working hand-to-hand very close. And we do have very concrete documents.”
Two senior U.S. officials confirmed for NBC News the MEK’s role in the assassinations, with one senior official saying, “All your inclinations are correct.” A third official would not confirm or deny the relationship, saying only, “It hasn’t been clearly confirmed yet.” All the officials denied any U.S. involvement in the assassinations.
As it has in the past, Israel’s Foreign Ministry declined comment. Said a spokesman, "As long as we can't see all the evidence being claimed by NBC, the Foreign Ministry won't react to every gossip and report being published worldwide."
For its part, the MEK pointed to a statement calling the allegations “absolutely false.”
Response to article from the National Council of Resistance of Iran
Ali Safavi, a long-time representative of the MEK, underscored the denial after publication of this article,
"There has never been and there is no MEK member in Israel, period," he said. "The MEK has categorically denied any involvement. The idea that Israel is training MEK members on its soil borders on perversity. It is absolutely and completely false."
The sophistication of the attacks supports the Iranian claims that an experienced intelligence service is involved, experts say.
In the most recent attack, on Jan. 11, 2012, Mostafa Ahamdi Roshan died in a blast in Tehran moments after two assailants on a motorcycle placed a small magnetic bomb on his vehicle. Roshan was a deputy director at the Natanz uranium enrichment facility and was reportedly involved in procurement for the nuclear program, which Iran insists is not a weapons program.
Previous attacks include the assassination of Massoud Ali-Mohammadi, killed by a bomb outside his Tehran home in January 2010, and an explosion in November of that year that took the life of Majid Shahriari and wounded Fereydoun Abbasi-Davani, who is now the head of Iran’s Atomic Energy Organization.
In the case of Roshan, the bomb appears to have been a shaped charge that directed all the explosive power inside the vehicle, killing him and his bodyguard driver but leaving nearby traffic unaffected.
Although Roshan was directly involved in the nuclear program, working at the huge centrifuge facility between Tehran and Qom, Iran’s religious center, at least one other scientist who was killed wasn’t linked to the Iranian nuclear program, according to Larijani.
Speaking of bombing victim Ali-Mohammadi, whom he described as a friend, Larijani told NBC News, “In fact this guy who was assassinated was not involved in the nitty-gritty of the situation. He was a scientist, a physicist, working on the theoretically parts of nuclear energy, which you can teach it in every university. You can find it in every text.”
“This is an Israeli plot. A dirty plot,” Larijani added angrily. He also claimed the assassinations are not having an effect on the program and have only made scientists more resolute in carrying out their mission.
Not so, said Ronen Bergman, an Israeli commentator and author of “Israel’s Secret War with Iran” and an upcoming book tentatively titled, “Mossad and the Art of Assassination.”
Bergman said the attacks have three purposes, the most obvious being the removal of high-ranking scientists and their knowledge. The others: forcing Iran to increase security for its scientists and facilities and to spur “white defections.”
He explained the latter this way: “Scientists leaving the project, afraid that they are going to be next on the assassination list, and say, ‘We don't want this. Indeed, we get good money, we are promoted, we are honored by everybody, but we might get killed. It isn't worth it. Maybe we should go back to teach … in a university.’”
There are unconfirmed reports in the Israeli press and elsewhere that Israel and the MEK were involved in a Nov. 12 explosion that destroyed the Iranian missile research and development site at Bin Kaneh, 30 miles outside Tehran. Among those killed was Maj. Gen. Hassan Moghaddam, director of missile development for the Revolutionary Guard, and a dozen other researchers. So important was Moghaddam that Ayatollah Khamenei attended his funeral.
Unlike the assassinations, Iran claims the missile site explosion was an accident; the MEK, meanwhile, trumpeted it but denied any involvement.
Indeed, there may be other covert operations carried out either by Israel acting alone or in concert with others, according to Bergman.
“Two labs caught fire,” said Bergman, enumerating the attacks. “Scientists got blown up or disappeared. A missile base and the R&D base of the Revolutionary Guard exploded some time ago, with the director of the R&D division of the Revolutionary Guard being killed along with … his soldiers.”
Bergman added, “So, a long series of … something that was termed by an Israeli (Cabinet) minister … as ‘mysterious mishaps’ happening and rehappening to the project. Then the Iranians claim, ‘This is Israeli Mossad trying to sabotage our attempts to be a nuclear superpower.’”
Dr. Uzi Rabi, director of the Dayan Center at Tel Aviv University, said the supposed accidents could all be part of “psychological warfare” conducted against Iran. “It seems logical. It makes sense,” he said of possible MEK involvement, “and it’s been done before.”
Rabi, who regularly briefs Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, on Iran also said the ultimate goal of the range of covert operations being carried out by Israel is “to damage the politics of survivability … to send a message that could strike fear into the rulers of Iran.”
For the United States, the alleged role of the MEK is particularly troublesome. In 1997, the State Department designated it a terrorist group, justifying it with an unclassified 40-page summary of the organization’s activities going back more than 25 years. The paper, sent to Congress in 1994, was written by Wendy Sherman, now undersecretary of state for political affairs and then an aide to Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.
The report, which was obtained by NBC News, was unsparing in its assessment. “The Mujahedin (MEK) collaborated with Ayatollah Khomeini to overthrow the former shah of Iran,” it said. “As part of that struggle, they assassinated at least six American citizens, supported the takeover of the U.S. embassy, and opposed the release of the American hostages.” In each case, the paper noted, “Bombs were the Mujahedin's weapon of choice, which they frequently employed against American targets.”
“In the post-revolutionary political chaos, however, the Mujahedin lost political power to Iran's Islamic clergy. They then applied their dedication to armed struggle and the use of propaganda against the new Iranian government, launching a violent and polemical cycle of attack and reprisal."
Sean Gallup / Getty Images file
Maryam Rajavi, president of the National Council of Resistance of Iran, greets several hundred Iranian expatriates who had gathered to welcome her at Tegel Airport in Berlin, Germany, on March 22, 2010.
U.S. officials have said publicly that the information contained in the report was limited to unclassified material, but that it also drew on classified material in making its determination to add the MEK to the U.S. list of terrorist organizations.
The MEK and its sister organizations have since the beginning been run by Massoud and Maryam Rajavi, a husband-wife team who have maintained tight control despite assassination threats and internal dissent. Massoud Rajavi, 63, founded the MEK, but since the U.S. invasion of Iraq has taken a backseat to his wife.
The State Department report describes the Rajavis as “fundamentally undemocratic” and “not a viable alternative to the current government of Iran.”
One reason for that is the MEK’s close relationship with Saddam Hussein, as demonstrated by this 1986 video showing the late Iraqi dictator meeting with Massoud Rajavi. Saddam recruited the MEK in much the same way the Israelis allegedly have, using them to fight Iranian forces during the Iran-Iraq War, a role they took on proudly. So proudly, they invited NBC News to one of their military camps outside Baghdad in 1991.
“The National Liberation Army (MLA), the military wing of the Mujahedin, conducted raids into Iran during the latter years of the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq War,” according to the State Department report. The NLA's last major offensive reportedly was conducted against Iraqi Kurds in 1991, when it joined Saddam Hussein's brutal repression of the Kurdish rebellion. In addition to occasional acts of sabotage, the Mujahedin are responsible for violent attacks in Iran that victimize civilians.”
“Internally, the Mujahedin run their organization autocratically, suppressing dissent and eschewing tolerance of differing viewpoints,” it said. “Rajavi, who heads the Mojahedin’s political and military wings, has fostered a cult of personality around himself.”
The U.S. suspicion of the MEK doesn’t end there. Law enforcement officials have told NBC News that in 1994, the MEK made a pact with terrorist Ramzi Yousef a year after he masterminded the first attack on the World Trade Center in New York City. According to the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, Yousef built an 11-pound bomb that MEK agents placed inside one of Shia Islam’s greatest shrines in Mashad, Iran, on June 20, 1994. At least 26 people, mostly women and children, were killed and 200 wounded in the attack.
That connection between Yousef, nephew of 9-11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, and the MEK was first reported in a book, “The New Jackals,” by Simon Reeve. NBC News confirmed that Yousef told U.S. law enforcement that he had worked with the MEK on the bombing.
In recent years, the MEK has said it has renounced violence, but Iranian officials say that is not true, that killings of Iranians continue. Still, through some deft lobbying, the group has been able to get the United Kingdom and the European Union to remove it from their lists of terrorist groups.
The alleged involvement of the MEK in the assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists provides the U.S. with a cloak of deniability regarding the clandestine killings. Because the U.S. has designated the MEK as a terrorist organization, neither military nor intelligence units of the U.S. government, can work with them. “We cannot deal with them, “ said one senior U.S. official. “We would not deal with them because of the designation.”
Iranian officials initially accused the Israelis and MEK of being behind the attacks, but they have since added the CIA to the list. Three days after the Jan. 11, 2012, bombing in Tehran that killed Roshan, the state news agency IRNA reported that Iran’s Foreign Ministry had sent a diplomatic letter to the U.S. claiming to have “evidence and reliable information” that the CIA provided “guidance, support and planning” to assassins directly involved in the attack.
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton immediately denied any connection to the killings. “I want to categorically deny any United States involvement in any kind of act of violence inside Iran,” Clinton told reporters on the day of the attack.
But at least two GOP presidential candidates have no problem with the targeting of nuclear scientists. In a November debate, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich endorsed “taking out their scientists,” and former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum called it, ”a wonderful thing.”
The MEK’s opposition to the Iranian government also has recently earned it both plaudits and support from an odd mix of political bedfellows.
A group of former Cabinet-level officials have joined together to support the MEK’s removal from the official U.S. Foreign Terrorist Organization list, even taking out a full-page ad last year in the New York Times calling for the removal of the MEK from the U.S. terrorist list. Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, former U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey, former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton; former Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, former FBI Director Louis Freeh and former Rep. Patrick Kennedy were among those whose signatures were on the ad.
“There’s an extraordinary group of bipartisan or even apolitical leaders, military leaders, diplomats, the United States … the United Kingdom, the European Union, even a U.S. District Court in Washington, said that this group that was put on the foreign terrorist organization watch list in 1997 doesn’t deserve to be there,” Ridge said in November on “The Andrea Mitchell Show” on MSNBC TV.
U.S. politicians also have been pushing the U.S. government to protect the 3,400 MEK members and their families at Camp Ashraf in Iraq, about 35 miles north of Baghdad. With the departure of U.S. troops, the MEK feared that Iraqi forces, with encouragement from Iran, would attack the camp, leading to a bloodbath. At the last minute, however, agreement was brokered with the United Nations that would permit the MEK members’ departure for resettlement in unspecified democratic countries. As of this week, there’s been little movement on the planned resettlement.
Jassim Mohammed / AP file
Iranian fighters with the National Liberation Army, the military wing of the MEK, clean armored personnel carriers in 1997 after a field exercise near Camp Ashraf in Iraq.
The Iranians see what’s happening as terrorism and hypocrisy by the United States. They have forwarded documents and other evidence to the United Nations – and directly to the United States, they say.
“I think this is very cynical plan. This is unacceptable,” said Larijani. “This is a bad trend in the world. Unprecedented. We should kill scientists … to block a scientific program? I mean this is disaster!”
Daniel Byman, a professor in the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University and also a senior fellow with the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution, said that if the accounts of the Israeli-MEK assassinations are accurate, the operation borders on terrorism.
“In theory, states cannot be terrorist, but if they hire locals to do assassinations, that would be state sponsorship,” said Byman, author of the recent book, “A High Price: The Triumphs and Failures of Israeli Counterterrorism.” “You could argue that they took action not to terrorize the public, the purpose of terrorism, but only the nuclear community. An argument could also be made that degrading the program means that you don’t have to take military action and thus, this is a lower level of violence and that really these are military targets, where normally terrorist targets are civilians.”
But ultimately, Byman said, there is a “spectrum of responsibility” and that Israel is ultimately responsible.
Ronen Bergman, while not speaking on behalf of the Israeli government, suggests that there is a justification, citing an oft-repeated but disputed quote in which Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s said that Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth.
“Meir Degan, the chief of Mossad, when he was in office, hung a photograph behind him, behind the chair of the chief of Mossad,” notes the Israeli commentator. “And in that photograph you see -- an ultra-orthodox Jew -- long beard, standing on his knees with his-- hands up in the air, and two Gestapo soldiers standing -- beside him with guns pointed at him. One of -- one of them is smiling.
“And Degan used to say to his people and the people coming to visit him from CIA, NSA, et cetera, ‘Look at this guy in the picture. This is my grandfather just seconds before he was killed by the SS,’” Bergman said. “’… We are here to prevent this from happening again.’"
Richard Engel is NBC News' chief foreign correspondent; Robert Windrem is a senior investigative producer.
Leave a Comment:
Enemy of enemy is friend?
TERRORISTS
There are bad terrorists and then there are our terrorists.
The War On Terror was BS from the Gitgo.
My thoughts exactely, rx7turbo!! lol!
go israel!!!
From the "Gitmo" too.
When they are attacking a sole individual for a purpose to meet an end they are assassins not terrorists, Terrorists make attacks to instill fear to meet their goal, So the Iranian people do not have anything to fear unless they are Nuclear Scientists building Atomic Bombs.
You call it what you will, but I think we the US need to stop spending our money and sending our kids to die in the Middle East to protect a country that lives by their own rules; I have no idea what it is we get from Israel, other then campaign money for whore politicians, but as an American citizen I say let Israel fight their own wars. If they live they live and if they don't they don't, has no effect on my life one way or another.
Maybe we should move everyone our of Arizona and give it to the Jews and they can have their holy land right here in the country that protects them anyway?
*Wonders how long that guy was tortured and told what to say on camera?*
"Where no counsel is, the people fall, but in the multitude of counselors there is safety." (Proverbs XI:14)
המוסד למודיעין ולתפקידים מיוחדים
more deaths the merrier!
Israel is best in the business. Let it do its heart's content.
This time, instead of dragging us in their business, let them take Saudis along with them. Saudis are the bravest in ME.
If they want, they can use nukes also.
At the start of the article it says:
Then, as in the middle it states:
They said this info comes from - "Much of what the Iranian government knows of the attacks and the links between Israel and MEK comes from interrogation of an assassin who failed to carry out an attack in late 2010"
I'l bet this guy talked, considering what this TERRORIST NATION Iran did to him. He'd say ANYTHING, to stop the torture....
ANYWAYS...KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK - WHO EVER IS DOING IT....
I love the rationalizations of "but but...this is different terrorism - it has just causes..." Thats what ALL terrorists say! Shame on our pandering of Israel.
Wow, U.S. Citizen , do you actually think that makes a difference?
How would you term the actions if foreign agents killed a notable U.S. scientist or politician?
From the article:
They are assassins. The are saboteurs. The agents of a foreign government, engaged in extralegal acts of violence.
If it was done to us, it would be wrong. Somehow people feel it is alright for Israeli agents to go around attaching bombs to cars in Iran.
Maybe they water-boarded him.
Terrorism is war, it is easy for some countries to do it..It takes a smart military to fight it.
AHEM........your mortal enemy yesterday but suddenly your best bosom buddy friend today? Uh huh. Yeah. RIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.
Tell you something folks - war makes the most peculiar bed mates, eh????
Tomato - Tomahto - Our "assassins" are doing good and the mujaheddin are good when they do work for the Mossad/CIA but "Terrorists" when they work against us. That is the face of our Political system.
Blowing up building with thousands of people in them for no reason other than to kill and instill fear is terrorism, Killing an individual that is building nuclear bombs to kill millions of innocent people is the correct preemptive action, This administration and all previous ones use it? So what is the problem?
Rock City w/Brian Williams is a failing program and needs to increase its ratings. What Rock City and Mr. Williams fails to do is mention that Iran is threatening Israel with destruction. Rock City w/Brian Williams is giving aid and comfort to Iran. Israel is doing nothing more than what any nation, including the U.S. would do to protect its borders and citizens. The U.S. entered another Nation and assassinated BinLaden, he has been responsible for the killing of thousands of Americans. Iran is a nation that is governed and fully supports terrorist that continue to kill thousands and is attempting to get a hold in Iraq. Targeted assassinations to neutralized an individual has been part of the survival of nations for centuries. What you do not hear from other countries is their News Programs, hungry for ratings, putting that information out for everyone to see. I see this as O'Bama actually supporting attacks on Israel, the information came from sthe upper levels of the O'Bama Administration and not from "the man on the street".
Politics makes strange bedfellows.
Yeah, they probably waterboarded him 180 times...no wait a minute, that would be if the US caught him.
The time has come to cut Isreal loose, they cause about 90% of thteir own problems. As one poster noted above, the only thing we get out of the deal is boat loads of money for political WHORES like gingrich and santorum.
Talk about a double standard. The funny part is there are still meatheads in the US who really belive the old "they hate us because we're free" BS. They hate us because of our double standard - Do as I say, not as I do.
This is Israel taking care of their own business, fighting fire with fire, and the best people can do on here is complain about it.
Go Israel
We have a written and signed statement that claims no involvement by MEK and Israel in the bombings/assassinations and an anonymous source saying that the Iranian Government has evidence that this is going on and that the US Government is aware of it. I think that unless the anonymous folks want to step up into the spotlight with their evidence, they can't be believed. It very well could be the Iranian Government behind the attacks. Remember that so far most of the "scientists" that have been targeted are very low ranking individuals in their project - people in positions like the "Director of Procurement". We also have the leader of Iran standing up publicly calling for the complete annihilation of Israel, he's working on developing missiles that can carry a nuclear payload and he's got the program going to make the warheads.
We shouldn't question the motives of a country that is bent on wiping another country from the face of the earth just because they hate them because of what reason again?
You gotta wonder if these guys are using all of the bombs Isreal gives them or are they saving some for the day when they can use the against Isreal.
I'd love to see what some of these pro-Isreal posters have to say, when this group uses one of these bombs AGAINST Isreal.
To all of you people saying these are targeted attacks - did you completely skip the part where they bombede a mosque and killed 26 and wounded over 200 - MOSTLY WOMEN AND CHILDREN.
It's sad that people CLAIMING to be American have no idea what that means. Would somebody please show me where in the Constitution it says we can use assasination to eliminate our enemies? How can we ever be expected to be taken seriuosly when we don't even follow our own rules?
So, Mossad. Wow. Big f**king shock there, right?
It wasn't too long ago that Obama stood at the UN and denied the Palestinians a homeland to show solidarity with Israel, and now you have the nerves to make such a statement.
Maybe Obama is releasing this information, with Israel's consent, for the same reason that Israel is releasing information about its planned bombing of Iran's nuclear facilities.
Well, for one, the Geneva Convention generally frowns on blowing up civilians. You know, unarmed non-combatants. Like it or not, the dude was a scientist, not a soldier. Legally, he's off-limits. So that's why the US and Israel have to be all 007 and stick a little magnetic bomb on his car.
Israel is a terrorist country which does not deserve one penny of US taxpayer money! Screw these terrorists, they are no better than the people they supposedly fight.
Terrorism was a Bush II propaganda term to rally America for an invasion and the conquering of Iraq. In reality how can one country call someone a terrorist when they kill civilians and find it ok to kill civilians themselves? Both sides' killings furthers the country's goal. Terrorism is fast becoming one of those overused words, maybe we should just go back to enemy, their isn't much need for propaganda in a free and informed society.
What he meant to say was "we are here to do this to others."
The main difference between a terrorist and an assassin is that the terrorist has no regard for civilian life. In fact terrorists often target civilians to spread fear.
I think it was Albert Camus who said: terrorism is what we call the violence of the weak, and we condemn it. War is what we call the violence of the strong, and we glorify it.
The mafia would say, "Not a thing."
I'll start worrying about Israel being terrorists when they start randomly killing Muslims. People that buy into this propaganda are most likely our gullible friends, the libs.
Double standard Zionist regime full of illusion in their policy just like their friends the Syrian regime, why they are friends, because Syrian regime never done any thing to harm their relationship with the Zionist and they are equal on war policy, killing people to maintain their grab on power, I call all the Jewish people to revolt against the Zionist, just like their half brothers from different mothers the Arabs are doing today and support the revolution of change against the wrong policy in the middle east and stop the illegal destruction of the ancient people to satisfy the oil money ediction and cashomanija putting behind the interest of the regional people.
The Zionist already used a banned weapon the cluster bombs against their Neighbour Lebanon killing thousands of people, and they have a hand on nuclear weapon pile including their nuclear projects do exist in the small nation in a tiny region risking the Jewish people life and others who live around them. Higher risks from Zionist to use banned weapon than any other state in the entire region.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. They've never done that.
F*cking moron.
If we are going to list MEK as a terrorist organization for their part in the over throw of our puppet, the shah, then we must also call the CIA a terrorist organization for their part in the overthrow of Mohammed Mossaddegh who did nothing but ask BP for more of the profits from Iranian oil to stay in Iran, or Salvador Allende of Chile who the CIA overthrew then installed Pinochett, one of the worst mass murderers in history.
JoeB - Last time I checked, Obama wasn't Irish.
Chris, settle down with the personal attacks, and show me the instance you are talking about.
http://www.npr.org/2011/05/23/136580099/obama-gets-in-touch-with-his-irish-roots
Well, you are well prepared arnt you Chris,,,and very liberal arnt you haha. Do you not think Israel is provoked into these attacks? Muslims like to use their own women and children as shields just to fool fools like you.
Using the logic of the Israel's apologists, CIA should have murdered the Israeli scientists working on the ILLEGAL nuclear program as well. Iran has as much right to a nuclear defense as Israel.
Reading all these comments is a sad thing. And we as Americans wonder why the Muslim world supported Bin Laden in his attacks against us.
Did we not call it terrorism when the USS Cole was attacked, how about the Khyber Towers, The Marine barracks in Beirut, the US Embassies in Africa? Under all your justifications above about the Iranian scientists being legitimate targets, then these military and governmental targets were legitimate too.
Oh, I see. It's okay to kill civilians when you're "provoked". Nice logic there, you f*cking asshat.
Since NBC isn't exactly known for it's integrious reporting one has to take this report with a grain of salt.
It is war...as long as they arnt deliberately going after women and children, they arnt stooping nearly as low as their opponents. Take your blood pressure meds lib
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWpFkhH2AZA
Nope, that tank wasn't "deliberately" shooting at that kid whatsoever, nope, not at all. You blind hypocritical moron. Wake up.
Kornfed (GMO corn I presume), I take it you have never been to Gaza or the West Bank. Israeli tanks roll through the streets quite often, killing everything in sight, men, women, children, babies. I have a Irish friend who was shot while trying to save a baby from being deliberately ran over by a tank.
Israeli "settlers" sit on hills with high powered rifles and shoot the Palestinians as they try to walk to their olive groves to earn a living. If a Palestinian family is on land wanted by a Jewish settler then they will be removed or killed.
There are many organizations that try to go in and document how the Palestinians are being treated but the Israeli's will not allow any cameras into the area. Why do you think CNN, MSN and Fox talk about what happens but never seem to have any feet on the ground in Gaza or the West Bank? they have cameras in every other war zone except that one.
The Palestinians are an OCCUPIED people being held prisoner in their own country, they are fighting bcak with the only weapons they have, their humans bodies. I have had many friends from all around the world go there to see for themselves and they have all said the same thing, Israel is treating the Palestinians the same way the Germans treated the Jews in the early 30's, like cattle.
If a foriegn power took control of the basic nessecities of life in our country and shut them off at random or sent tanks rolling down my street on a weekly basis I would strap a bomb to my chest a blow them to hell too.
I don't have any more use for Muslims than I do Jews or Christians, you have all done nothing but fight over whose "god" has the biggest ding-a-ling for the past 2000 years. There are many of us who just want to live in peace in an "imaginary friend" free world.
"Kornfed"
His "roots" Kornfed. Didn't say he was Irish.
Iran has vowed to wipe Israel off the map....Consider the restraint Israel has shown by taking these scientists out instead of a full on attack. Israel can actually wipe Iran off the map, but are not as irresponsible as their foe
Your post is biased Chris 629698.
Israel will do whatever it takes to protect their citizens. If people don't like it they can just move to Hell.
Just a little excerpt of Iranian style justice:
Yea they're a bunch of dicks.
Kornfed thinks there is a difference between killing kids with a tank and killing kids with a car bomb. That tells you what kind of person you're arguing with.
This is not proof that Israel are terrorists hahah. I watched your propaganda. It didnt impress me much Chris
Yeah, bombing kids with white phosphorus is a great way to protect your citizens.
Exibit A....liberal logic on full display. Leave America if you dont like it bud. Go join the Jihad
Do you believe anything the government or cia says?
I actually would have to believe this report. The Obama administration has shown from the beginning they would throw Israel, (the only truly democratic society in the area) and the only true pro western country under the bus if he had the chance. So I do believe the reports because Obama is no friend of Israel, but he sure likes bowing to the Arab kings.
As for killing the scientist, Israel is fighting for their lives. We have a government that has openly stated that they are committed to destroying Israel and every other non Muslim country. If any of you idiots think Iran deserves any better then why don't you move there, they are not our friends and have not been since the Shaw left.
And for you that want to know why Israel has bombs? Lets see, they had every boarder with forces committed to killing them and driving everyone of them to the sea. They had just went through a event where genocide was tried against them and they will never let it happen again. We need to wise up, get these people out of Washington that do not realize they are our only true friend (yes, even Saudi Arabia has schools funded by the government that teaches we are all infidels and should die). I get amazed by you Rachal Maddow followers that support these people without realizing that if they had their way you would be first on their list to die. In fact being a lesbian Rachal would be put to death under their laws. Sometimes I wonder where you head is, because you need to pull it out of you @ss and really look at the world not through any of the presses eyes (they are just party supporters and not news casters anymore, but use the internet and do some research, you might actually learn something.
Their mission of making a nuclear bomb. I have no problem with this campaign really. Better than sending our own guys.
Well off to work, I will leave the boards to the unemployed (kornfed) and the trolls (kornfed).
Just a thought, did Brian Williams come up with that name himself, "Rock Center"? How gay is that? and no offense meant to gay people but that is the gayest name for a news show since Fox and Friends.
ummm, when you gode a tank, well, its a tank. You want to die when you gode one. Furthermore, how do we know that that tank was even from Isreal? I didn't see any markings. How do we know that the poeple that are killing those palistinians aren't palistinians themself? We know NONE of these things, little bits of these things tell us so, but why believe them. Spys can plant evidence just as eisaly as police.
I say good for isreal, there finally steping up to the bat to stop there own destruction. If you want further proof that Iran wants Isreal dead:
I'm more concerned about Obammy's Kenyan roots than any Irish roots.
Teabag dipsh*t logic on full display.
The warfare landscape changes with time it seems. So now we have drones that are systematically targeting individuals for assassination purposes by the Obama administration. They are proud of this accomplishment so there is no denying the purpose. Before that human intelligence got close enough to do the job similar to what is happening with these nuke scientists. The end result is that the perceived bad guys, plus collateral damage of innocents are removed and thus posing no more of a threat.
With all the killing in that part of the world, I imagine there are hundreds of thousands of family members with permanent pain of seeing a loved one to them, murdered and thus spurring more revenge. This is why the Palestine and Israeli conflict continues because at this point both sides have absorbed massive pain and agony and they can't let go of it in order to take a first step forward.
What I found interesting about this article was the group of both democrats and republicans that have lobbied to get that terrorist group off the terrorist list. Fascinating how an issue can bring together parties that normally disagree if it is sunny or not.
So footage of a tank shooting at unarmed children is "propaganda". Okay, guy. Whatever you say. You just can't face the truth. It's okay; it's easier to keep your head in the sand. I understand.
I am proud of you deprogrammer!!
Chris, there are documented cases where Israel has acted wrongly. There are also many documented cases where America has acted wrongly. Abu Grave comes to mind, but there are also the military civilian killings, the Black Water stuff, but you know all that. War destroys human character, and prolonged war takes it's worst toll in human depravity. Israel has been in a non-stop existential struggle since May 14th of 1948. Their enemies are sworn to "drive them into the sea" and "finish what Hitler started". Their enemies use women and children as suicide bombers. They use AMBULANCE as military conveyance and hide inside schools and hospitals. They regularly targe Isralie buses, schools and places where their young people gather. But, I can tell from your posting that means nothing to you and with your super human sense of right and good that YOU would never allow yourself to fall into the trap of dehumanizing your enemy or doing anything morally reprehensible. Have you read "O' Jerusalem", I recommend it and you might learn something.
One sign that Israel was involved is the extraordinary measures that were taken to insure that innocent civilians were not harmed. Only the people directly working on the project to kill all of the Jews in Israel are being targeted.
From the article:
lol, it's really funny that people found this video so offensive they collapsed the post I put it in.
Here you go, people. Watch an Israeli tank shoot at kids. Go FREEDOM!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWpFkhH2AZA
... you mean, since England took land that it appropriated from its indigenous population and arbitrarily gave it to them. And since then they've been doing their best to force these indigenous peoples off these lands. You mean since then, right? That's what you're talking about?
Oh, thank god they're only targeting specific civilians. Because as long as you only kill the civilians you want to kill, that makes it all better. Killing unarmed noncombatants is cool as long as you target them.
Think of it this way, people: would you consider it "okay" if a suicide bomber blew up the house of a Lockheed Martin engineer because he was designing bombs that would be used to attack Afghanistan? Would that justify it? Hmm?
Here you go Chris...lets compare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNNTcHq5Tzk
I'll worry about MEK when the supreme psuedo-representative of God steps down; disbands his Revolutionary Guard, his so-called 'al Quds' muharibun militia, and his basiji thugs; allows free and fair elections; and stops threatening the United States.
Chris,
With your line of thinking, you need to pack up your stuff and give your property back to the nearest native american because that is what we did to them. So is it OK for you to live on their land that we took, but you want Israel to give up and move. Hypocrite, act on your convictions or stop this silly talk.
More of the Obama administration standing with their Muslim brothers. This administration is doing more to destabilize the Middle east than the last four combined. Thank you President Obama for pushing us one step closer to the Apocalypse. The only Arab state to honor negotiations with Isreal has fallen to the Muslim brotherhood with the encouragement of Obama and his lap dog Hillary Clinton. His administration is leaking or substantiating information that will be used to further inflame the radical masses in the ME. Pissing off the Iranian people with sanctions that hurt their citizens far more than their Mullahs. Abandoning Iraq and telling the Taliban the day we'll pull out of Afghanistan so they can wait it out and be ready to step up. This can't be simple incompetence. Somebody has a plan and it isn't pretty.
The nation of legalized terrorists in charge of the military and intelligence needs the help of other terrorist groups?!
Yup, let's fall back on 9/11 once again, Kornfed. It's not like it's used to trick stupid people into going to war or anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YOh-rpvjYg
So I'm kinda waiting for an answer, people. Would it be justified for an Afghan suicide bomber to blow up a Lockheed Martin engineer here on American soil because he designs weapons to kill Afghans? Hmm?
If it was their main goal to stop our nuclear development....yes. Doing it now would be a random killing...we already have the technology
You cannot ignore circumstances that led to this. Iran has vowed to wipe them off the map. This is not a game to them. The threat is very real...in fact, if they do nothing they could perish all together.
@ Chris - actually that was said by Sydney J. Harris not Camus but it's still a good quote.
This is not moral equivalence, it's direct real-world equivalence. If it's okay for Israel to kill a scientist who designs weapons for Iran to kill Israelis, why is it not okay for an Afghan to kill a scientist who designs weapons for America to kill Afghans? There is nothing about morality here... it's completely practical.
Stop demonizing the good people of Israel with your poopaganda Chris. Go to Palestinian and join Hezbollah.
Deprogrammer how ignorant can you be?
Rock Center is what the building they are in has been called since it was built in 1933. THe Observation Deck is called "The Top of the Rock"
Rockefeller Center (The Plaza is the Middle of Rock Center and 30 Rock (Ever heard of that) is the center of it...Hence Rock Center. NewYorkers call it that and have done so for almost 80 years.
To the UnAmerican fascist who states those who "don't like it should leave" about the US...No, we will stand against your fascist warmongering and hatred. Which you so blatantly display.
How anyone can express support for a group which was connected to 9/11 is beyond me. THis attitude is what created Saddam, BinLaden, Noriega ...hired and trained and paid to do our dirty work...did not work out well then and will not work out now.
Brainless Redneck who apparently likes corn- your vitriol says a great deal about your particular brand of crazy. It must be awful to live with so much hate in your heart.
This debate is absurd. Terrorism is terrorism, regardless of who is targeted. Israel has used a designated terrorist group to target civilians. Period. There is no debate to be had here. Israel is guilty of financing and supporting terrorists, and I'm pretty sure that the U.S. knew all about it.
It is time that we U.S. citizens demand complete detachment from the rogue state of Israel, and seize all of their U.S. assets, ban AIPAC from lobbying our government and cut of the $3Billion in aid we pay them each and every year.
Be a patriotic, Constitutional American- put America 1st. If you are such a fan of Israel, we would all love it it you moved there. Now let the adults talk and stop posting your hate on these boards.
If the article is true then was it a group of terrorists who killed Bin Laden? The word terror is used as a catch-all to stir people today, it no longer carries merit. The true terrorists, those who hold the anti -Israel and anti west agenda are anti-Semites like the pathetic writer of this article, those who favor Iran and their anti female society, bent on their goal, the ultimate suicide bomb that would destroy the earth and send them to virgin ville, those who embrace Nazism to this day. Israel has every right to surgically remove those individuals who represent a threat to its citizens. We should be doing the same. No, this is not terrorism. Terrorism is "Shock and awe" to kill 55 people. Terrorism is breaking up a hundred thousand American families for years, some permanently to settle a squabble between two rich families, of corrupting a government to set up a protection racket, and installing an Arab sympathizer to "run" it all.
I asume you are talking about me. I merely told him that there is an option to his hatred of America...he can leave. He can certainly choose to stay in a place he hates if he wishes as well. I'm not a warmonger...I was against us going into Iraq. I still root for my own countrymen though.
Except Israel already has nukes, so at best Iran is only trying to reach parity, so your argument is f*cking stupid.
Chris,
There is a big difference between building a bomb to kill one to three people and building bombs to wipe out a nation. Israel is justified, Afghanistan would be justified if Israel publicly stated their reason for these bombs was to wipe Afghanistan off the map. Israel may have made the first strikes in all its wars, but if you look up the intelligence you will see that these countries were poised to attack either that day or the next. Israel can not take that kind of hit and fight effectively, especially under the land they had at the time. So yes they are justified, and personally if they attacked the leadership of Iran they would be justified too, in fact as a ally, we should not only support them but help them. As for invading Iran, Israel does not have the means to do such a thing, they are built to defend not to occupy, while Iran is built for the opposition.
The party of civility is representin' today!
Chris,
Your reply is f@cking stupid. Israel has never openly made it a policy to use nukes first, or to direct them at a country they are for self defense. Iran has made it it's policy openly stated that if they have nukes they will use them on Israel. This is the problem with you liberals, you think you are so smart you are stupid. You would hope a murderer would change so you would hand him a gun to protect himself and then sit it shock when he uses it on you.
You put on these rose colored glasses and look at the world as if every place is like here. I have been around the world, it is not, there are countries that will kill you just because. No reason, the person just felt like it. You liberals need to wake up and look at what is really out there before you get us all killed. The only difference is I will make sure I use you as my human shield.
Pick your racist nation and back it.
I'm not even kidding. There are no good guys in the region, so you pick the players to support your strategy.
If its not Israel, its Saudi Arabia and UAE where they cut off your hands for some crimes and deny women rights.
The alternative, as pointed out, is Iran and Syria. Look at how those governments treat their people. Actually even a lot worse.
Pull out of the region? I call BULLS**T on you unless you have been, at least for the past year, paying your gas station 3 times their price to compensate them for not ultimately getting their fuel from the Middle East.
So, just another case of yes, I support Israel, the racist, nuclear armed, civilian killing as little as possible but only for political reasons, terrorist nation.
The translation went more like "The government of Israel shall fade into the pages of history." But you'll never believe that, and you'll never go check for yourself. Because you love your discriminatory tribal mentality.
Iran is allowed, by treaty, to build nuclear reactors, and use nuclear power for peaceful means. In fact, as a result of signing the NNPT, all present nuclear power signatories are obligated to helping all non-power signatories achieve such peaceful technology advances.
The US Constitution commits all Treaties that the US enters into as the Supreme Law of the Land.
Ergo: People like you are enemies to our US Constitution
Kornfed,
Don't you love how liberals yell at everyone about how full of hate they are, but if you disagree with them they are always the first to yell negative insults at us or better yet call us racist. Sadly, being called a racist used to carry a stigma with it, today it just means you do not agree with Obama and his socialist agenda. And people wonder why hatred and racism keeps raising it's ugly head, because in the end its people like 'Chris, Scot, and the rest of the idiots' walk around and believe everything the talking heads on ABC, CBS, NBC say, and then you have another group that takes anything Fox says as gospel truth, rather then do a little research and find the truth themselves. Our schools our nothing but socialist breading grounds because we have liberal professors brow beating students into submission, I got kicked out of classes because I dared to confront their ideology with fact (God forbid), and now sadly they are trying to do the same to our little children.
Just because everyone keeps collapsing this, I'm going to keep posting it. Again and again.
An Israeli tank shooting at children. Clearly unarmed, waving children. Feel good about yourselves, folks. This is the team you're backing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWpFkhH2AZA
This article is (purposefully?) misleading. There is a lot more story than it is telling.
When Britain pressured the US into kicking out the democratic government in Iran and installing the Shah, it put the US CIA in charge of creating the brutal and repressive SAVAK. While the CIA has "fallen on its sword" and accepted full blame for "teaching Nazi interrogation techniques, including torture, to the SAVAK" it is simply not true. The CIA subcontracted the process to the Israeli Mossad --- at the time a hugely lucrative contract for any country the size of Israel.
The Mossad drew primarily on disaffected Muslims but also on the sizable Jewish and Christian communities in Iran --- many of whom had serious axes to grind with the government. The Mossad ran the SAVAK directly out of Tel Aviv with even the Shah's security people left out of the loop. The CIA complained loudly that the Mossad was also cutting them out of regional intelligence.
When the Revolution came in Iran and the Shah was kicked out, the incoming rebels hunted down some of the SAVAK leadership and much of its administrative staff and publicly executed them. But tens of thousands of agents and operatives and their handlers escaped overseas or simply disappeared into the Iranian populace. The Mossad continued to operate the survivors as its private intelligence service in Iran.
Over time these agents and operatives rose in Iranian society, often reaching mid-level management and even Revolutionary Guard positions as a matter of course. They kept Israel supplied with a steady stream of intelligence, but also allowed Israel to thoroughly infiltrate groups such as MEK. And even then, the Mossad played a double game, "allowing" the CIA to fund groups such as MEK, but retaining operational control for themselves. And they did not share what they knew. The CIA gets to read things like the Mossad's assessment that Iran currently has enough fissile material to build four modern nuclear weapons in the New York Times.
The problem that Israel has is that in keeping the SAVAK as an active extension of the Mossad in Iran, they have created a situation where there really is no point to ejecting the current political/religious regieme. A very similar anti-US, anti-Israel government would just step up to replace it. The "Green Party" dissidents that we see on the news are just as violently anti-American and anti-Israeli as the people they seek to replace.
The Iranian people really do hate and despise the Americans, British, and Israelis, but more for their historical actions against the Iranian people than for any purely political or religious reasons. The lists of crimes against the Iranian people is long. From providing Sadaam with the equipment to manufacture weaponized mustard gas and binary saran to be uses against the Iranians to unleashing the Shah on the Iranian people. Now they see sanctions and ask themselves if the US will see Iran as another Cuba --- to be punished continuously and permanently no matter how much the circumstances may change.
I don't think that Iran's course is right and figure that eventually there will be a miscalculation that has the potential to escalate out of control. Israel would like to see it because their right-wing government feels that getting the US and Iran going at each other would guarantee future US aid money, especially military aid. The situation is much more dangerous that that with North Korea because the Iranian military lacks the incredibly tight discipline that marks the NK military. That very lack of discipline is what can make a miscalculation more probably.
Can you imagine a nuclear arsenal in the hands of a fanatic leadership country such as Iran. You do what is takes to not let it happen.
Just the mere sight of my redneck name sends them off into a turrets-like rant of obscenities. Liberals think emotionally. It is not surprising that they would argue emotionally as well.
I know, it would be unthinkable if a religious, militant country based on an ancient anachronistic God got its hands on nukes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel
Oh, crap.
Chris I love your fiction, now could you please provide some facts that are actually facts and not a report from the news channels or Time. You won't because you can not, every time I do this I wait for the fact, they get pulled, I pull government, and outside sources that show the statements are untrue and then the liberals resort to what they accuse everyone else of: hatred and name calling.
*Tourette
Went to school in Mississippi, did we?
No, it's a video of a tank, shooting at an object behind the children, not in view of the video camera.
what the tank was shooting at, is not made known in the video. It is propaganda, spread by, more than likely, anti-Israeli propagandists.
it was a pallywood production.
Thank you for the correction. If I can get free editing, I'll take it! Went to school in California...maybe thats my problem
Um, yes. They both believe in and kill people for imaginary reasons, which are ironically based on the same stupid original belief.
Then why defend one entirely over the other?
Because at least Iran is honest about it.
Poor Chris
Actually, Iran has never said that. Not once. Not one single time. That's just a made-up talking point that Israel supporters like to parrot but never think to check whether or not it actually happened. Because it didn't. No official Iranian source has ever said they will use nuclear weapons on Israel.
Trying to muddy the waters again Chris? Do they need to state the method? haha
No, I'm just calling out a liar.
Do you drive Chris?
Czechoslovakia disappeared from the map. Who nuked them?
haha. Chris, are you a lawyer by chance?
Lots of comments restored, although:
It's Rock Center, JoeB-460595...it's in the header and URL. Pretty sure Rock City mainly refers to a rap album.
1.23, 1.37 deleted, killerteam banned, calling for the death of all Muslims. Don't encourage genocide, folks.
1.43 deleted, Chris-629698 copypasting without attribution from a Wiki page.
...
Chris-629698, Kornfed, you're each suspended for a week for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
...
deprogrammer, Tbenton, you're each suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
LOL@ people who think that using shape charges is done to eliminate collateral damage! You people are so clueless... Shape charges are used only because the bomb can be small enough to be easily placed and still do the job. Israelis also use rockets in their whack jobs that kill plenty of innocent bystanders. They never care how many other brown people they kill as long as they murder the intended person.
Kornball...
While you have made some good points, statements such as the above nullify your creditability and questions your compentance.
I believe more terrorist activities have been done by the US than anybody else. What else would you call using drones to attack in Pakistan. Then there are the other activities in Libya, Pakistan, Afganistan, and who knows where else. Isreal comes in at number 2 for this, and other activities against the arabs. Who is better?
Top Iranian Nuclear Scientist?? Man, they drive that P.o.s.? Jew's, Muslim's.....blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!! F' them and their idiot idea's! NUKE THEM BOTH! Please just shut up about ur religion's!! Jew's u cause all the world's problem's to date! Muslim's, just shut up about ur camel raising life's, and just live them!! I think the best solution is to Nuke the shlt out of both of their countries! They are never going to shut the f' up!! Just look at Israel! SHUT UP, nobody want's to hold ur hand's anymore!!! We don't care about ur religous fantasies anymore, really never did! F' off!!!!!
wow...so many Israel hatters in one place...hope you'll never have to experience them f***N arabs throwing rockets at your child's kindergarten... or them damn brain washing kids with guns yelling 'death to israel'... bunch of morons sitting in their suburban neighborhoods reading a confession of a tortured failed assassin..wow... rot in hell iran, iranian scientists and all Israeli hatters...
Israel is brilliant.
Now Iran will be looking for, and upon capture, executing this Terrorist Group. You better darn believe it. The Terrorist group MEK, etc. are really giving up their lives. They were wooed by money, and the hatred of their own Government, Iran. In a true sense they are martyrs for the cause..
No one can blame it on Israel, re: the deaths of the scientists. It is the Terrorists who are risking taking down their own Government from bldg. up their fast track research/implementing Nuclear Warfare to destroy the entire Middle East; not just Israel, and the United States. Am sure Pres. Obama is somewhat involved in helping them out.
It also is a puzzle, why the Israeli's Top Intelligence Secrets are being given away by printing all the details of this undercover operation.
"The Regime in Israel should disappear from the pages of time/history."
Even a pacifist could support that statement...
Kornfed suspended for a week for what? I dont see any personal attacks. Interesting mode of discipline Newsvine.
So glade so many of you Americans support state sponsored terrorism. BTW the MEK bombs civilian targets too. Just like you claim that we can retaliate for terrorism so can Iran.
Skorned,
They don't appreciate our creativity at Newsvine. They banned me for a week for calling someone a butt head and another time for telling someone to take a shower!
Why is everyone so offended by Israel doing this. Iran supports Hamas and Hezbollah attacking Israel. All this means is that Israel has sunken to their level and no longer has the moral high ground.
Skorned,
Certain points of view are appreciated more than others it would appear.
I don't think I'd classify them as terrorists, personally. Terrorists attack civilians with the goal to intimidate the general public. This isn't the goal of the ones Israel is training. Honestly, I don't see the difference between Mossad killing one scientist and one of these guys doing it for them.
Now if they were training these guys to drive car bombs into a crowded area to kill one particular target, I would have to consider that terrorism as that is striking fear into the public. Even though it may not be intentional.
The tribe should remember this, murder is murder-- it doesn't matter if its one person or 6 million. If Israel attacks Iran's nuclear facilities that's exactly the same as when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941. Either neither is wrong or both are wrong. You can't have it both ways.
Mike, you really do not think that murders like that have an explicit aim to terrorize civilians? They say: we can kill whoever we want, wherever we want. It is a show of force and capability - classic purpose of terrorism.
Israel has been murdering Palestinian politicians all the time. They simply call them 'terrorist suspects' and kill them at will. That is not terrorism either?
No matter what heinous and illegal thing Israel does, the brainwashed people support it, for one reason or another. They call themselves 'good Christians' or 'good Jews', but in reality they support an obvious EVIL and ILLEGAL act.
DO NOT BE AN APOLOGIST FOR EVIL AND CRIMINAL ACTS - regardless of WHO performs them, or WHY. That is a golden standard of universal morality and justice. Take the high moral standard - do not sink down to the filth of your enemy.
Chris, I know you have been banned but for everyone elses sake let me just say I watched the video and saw it differently. Tanks that close to a target don't miss. They clearly shot a warning round, or shot at something going on behind the kids. If that tank wanted those kids dead they would be, one round into the side of the building they were standing near would of killed them all yet they all lived because the round was just near them.
I'm fine with every country doing what it needs to win, it's called war. Only politicians and liberals think you can go to war kill people in a rule abiding way that is superior to others killing of people. Man up and do what has to be done and don't apologize for it.
Iran has been supporting terrorist groups for decades, Israel using one of their disenfranchisedgroups against them is a little different. It's not retaliation on Iran's part when Iran started it and Israel responded.
The CIA is behind this!!
That way when we do invade Iran, we will never have substantial proof that Iran had nuclear weapons and then we'll be in the situation as in Iraq. - It's better for it to be a mystery than there to be proof that there wasn't any nuclear weapons.
The same thing happened in Iraq!!
epinona, just last week, the supreme leader of Iran declared that Israel is "a cancer that needs to be cut out"
and the translation that said "Israel should be wiped off the map" ws supplied by an Iranian news agency,
the exact translation is also debatable, ONE canadian supplied an alternative translation and all the jew-haters jumped on it
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9060354/Irans-supreme-leader-vows-to-confront-cancerous-tumour-of-Israel.html
so all the idiot claims about the "peaceful intent of Iran" are pure and utter bull@!$%#
The fact is, Iran could be exploring nuclear energy without the use of plutonium or uranium. There are other radioactive materials that are not nearly as dangerous and do not create byproducts that can be weaponized. Or they could invest in hydrogen energy sources since that is a growing industry.
The truth is, if all you really want is energy, there are many other methods and resources to utilize besides highly dangerous and volatile radioactive materials that can go nuclear. Their insistence on obtaining nuclear power via plutonium and uranium is a transparent excuse. Sure, Israel has nukes, but they have long been a nation that is surrounded by people wanting to eradicate them, and it's purely a defensive measure.
I think it is ironic that religious beliefs have wrought so much terror and death upon the world, especially that region. Is it really such a difficult concept, to just live and let live? We all have our own countries, why do we need more? What is this constant need to conquer all about? Why does anyone care what some people in another country are doing or believe? Muslims can believe what they want, Jews can believe what they want, Christians can believe what they want......who gives a crap? We all have our place, so just accept that and live with it. Why is that so damn hard?
Lately Newsvine makes me go through a confirmation process to prove I AM NOT SPAM. More on point, lots of name calling not too much thinking going on. Israel usually acts on it's own and without using intermediaries that is their pattern. The U.S. can't keep much of anything quiet so look elsewhere. Russians could be but not likely. Homegrown maybe, seems good, easy to blend, in short logistics trail all to the good drawbacks closed society lots of internal security going on to the bad. Use of shaped charge not to difficult to make so that's not a problem. So with no firm leads and a governmrnt known for lieing we wait for another clue.
Did the spam thing again
I just want to ask the people who are bemoaning this as an act of pure terrorism one question: Israel is generally a friend to the US, Iran is generally hostile and Iran has also made intentions clear, in English not in Arabic, that given the slightest opportunity, they would build a nuclear bomb, maybe even dozens, and launch them against Israel and the US, and now people want to cry foul because Iran nuclear scientists were murdered by Israeli forces working with a group that decries the current government in Iran? So I guess the French were also in the wrong when they helped to blockade the British during our own Revolution. After all, Americans were the terrorists against the British crown. Yea, someone tell me George Washington and Benjamin Franklin should not have been fighting, in their various ways, against the British because it was solely terrorism.
So you condemn the actions of Hezbollah, and the Palestinian PLO who fire rockets into Israel, use suicide bombers to kill their civilians right?
I don't care who does what, one side (Israel) has elections, lets all religions walk freely amongst each other, and has signed peace treaties in the past (Egypt and Jordan)and held to them. And one side (Iran, Syria, Palestine) has mock elections, totalitarian rulers, kill those who disagree with their ideology. One side is friendly towards America and does billions of dollars in trade, the other side threatens us and attacks our troops in the region. I think Israel and America do have more of a moral high ground, but even if they didn't I wouldn't give a $h!t because war is hell and I'd rather have me and my friends win then the side who wants me to convert to Islam or lose my head.
Yes Logic - I condemn ALL terrorist acts and never voiced any support for Arab terrorism.
Lately Newsvine makes me go through a confirmation process to prove I AM NOT SPAM. More on point, lots of name calling not too much thinking going on. Israel usually acts on it's own and without using intermediaries that is their pattern. The U.S. can't keep much of anything quiet so look elsewhere. Russians could be but not likely. Homegrown maybe, seems good, easy to blend, in short logistics trail all to the good drawbacks closed society lots of internal security going on to the bad. Use of shaped charge not to difficult to make so that's not a problem. So with no firm leads and a governmrnt known for lieing we wait for another clue.
I think its's funny that a terrorist nation is complaing about terrorism.
I think its funny that people think Israel is as bad a country at a nation that specifically targets civilians with terrorism.
Like I said, I am not going to call Isreal the good guys. That tank video is useful in that it shows Israeli tanks not specifically targetting the children, and yet also not caring much if the children were in the way.
So, if you are anti-Israel, you are pro using children as human shields.
If you are pro-Isreal, you are pro-not caring if children get in the way.
Go ahead and keep this moral arguement up as if it matters. And as if you don't care about oil tripling in price.
It is speculators on the commodities market that are responsible for driving the price of oil. How many of these speculators are Jews? I don't know, but I would guess that it is quite a few - likely the same ones who profited handsomely from 9/11 related trades PRIOR to this event taking place. To a large extent Mossad funds its black operations through trades based on the inside information. Much like CIA smuggling drugs or guns.
That way when we do invade Iran, we will never have substantial proof that Iran had nuclear weapons and then we'll be in the situation as in Iraq.
@ what_the_81
You don't read the news a lot do you? Even the current administration KNOWS they don't have nuclear weapons yet. They've stated this. It's the threat of them building a nuclear weapon. That's what all this sabre rattling is about.
If you don’t think the U.S. is involved your are in denial. Why do you think they have our Drone? Our country is broke and we are interfering with other countries when we have plenty of problems we need to fix and take care of in America first! If we don’t recognize and categorize our problems, how are we going to know what it is that needs fixing? I hope we can come together as a nation and figure out the solutions to our problems.
We allow a foreign entity (Federal Reserve, neither federal nor a reserve, a group of mostly European banksters) to control our currency! This system is why you, I, economies and nations are debt slaves!
We let Wall Street run our government! Wall Street is Washington and Washington is Wall Street! We have a two headed one party system serving their masters Wall Street and the Federal Reserve!
Our presidential politicians in both parties are going to spend approximately 1 billion dollars each on their campaigns this year, yet we are laying off fire fighters, teachers and policemen. Two billion dollars on presidential campaigns, is that insane or what? Then, we allow the Super Pac’s with little regulation and full anonymity to influence our American elections through the sheer volume of money that will most likely be used for negative advertising!
Our congress is bought and paid for by lobbyists and are involved with insider trading, doing the bidding for those who put the most money in their pockets! They get rich while we the “freeloaders” get cuts to Medicare and Social Security all the while they receive a tax payer salary and health benefits for life for themselves and their family compliments of the “freeloaders”.
We've legalized Corporations (Citizen's United) as people! They can now buy any election they want to, from sheriff to president! They don't even have to be American corporations! Corporations have severed their moral contract with America. It used to be you worked hard and helped them gain success and you shared in their success through better wages and benefits, all you get now is a pink slip.
The BP Corporation will likely not be charged with any criminal malfeasance in the largest natural disaster in history. The oil leak continues to flow and there are reports Corexit is still being used without any oversight by the U.S.. Many scientists claim the gulf loop current has been broken as a result of the leak. If you want evidence of the leak just talk to the residents and oil spill workers living along the gulf from Texas to Florida.
We invade a different country every year! Killing and displacing millions of people and spending trillions of dollars to enrich the Oil, Banking, and Corporate cartels!
The Census Department of the American Federal Government recently reported that “50% of the nation’s population were living below the poverty line”.
50 million people can't go to a doctor because they don't have health care!
47 million people need food stamps just to feed themselves!
25 million people are unemployed or underemployed!
15 million people's mortgages are worth more than their homes!
Our national debt is going on 17 trillion dollars! We pay off our debt with more debt! That is like putting gas on the fire! They tell the U.S. citizens it is their fault because they don't live within their means! They fail to mention it has everything to do with corrupt business and political leaders and the Federal Reserve and their fractional reserve banking system!
The worlds GDP is 65 trillion and the derivatives market is estimated at 1.4 quadrillion. If Greece defaults at 100% and If the ISDA (International Swaps and Derivative Association) labels this credit event a default, our 5 largest banks who own 97% of world’s derivatives will crash. They can’t pay on the credit default swaps owed associated with Greece! But that’s ok, we’ll bail them out again! You know their motto, privatize profits and socialize losses! QE3 has already started with the currency swaps.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac the flagships of our housing bubble that has burst! The housing market used to be what was fueling the middle class as manufacturing was being outsourced to foreign countries, it got over leveraged like our banks and stock markets and there is no resolution in site!
They tell us social safety nets, Medicare and, Social Security that you and I paid into is Socialism when the largest recipients of social welfare in the history of the world are our “Capitalist, Free Market” banking and financial institutions! Remember the bailouts? We keep bailing out the banks to the tune of tens of trillions and we're told it's because they are too big to fail and all the while we allow them to get bigger! We are witnessing the biggest bank robbery in history and the banks and financial institutions are doing the robbing!
Our media (presstitutes) are bought and paid for by corporations and treat us like mushrooms! Reuters and the Associated Press try to tell us what to believe and think, such as unemployment is at 8.3% and falling, war is peace, they hate us for our freedom, the terrorists are out to get you, the economy is great, borrow and spend! etc…
Our constitution, our most sacred document as a country is meaningless!
We have lost most of our civil liberties through the passage of the Patriot Act and National Defense and Authorization Act! They have authorized the use of spy drones in American skies! You can be surveilled by any number of Federal agencies, have your phone and compute tapped, bank, medical, and private records accessed! We are molested at the airports or radiated for “security” etc…!
We have created another cartel the “Prison Industrial Complex”! We have outsourced our incarceration of United States citizens which consists of over 6 million prisoners! This exceeds the number of prisoners held in the gulags of the former Soviet Union at any point in history! All objectivity of prison reforms has flown out the window in exchange for profits! No prisoners no profits! Are there prison lobbyists? You bet and loaded with cash compliments of you and me!
The Military Industrial Complex is King, our defense budget is larger than the rest of the world’s combined! We are the enforcement arm of all the world’s cartels! The policeman of the world! In our countries short history we have bombed over 60 different countries! The outsourcing of our security to private military companies like XE (formerly Blackwater) is increasing dramatically!
We let the elite divide us so that they can keep us in fear, distracted, and divided to the theft going on right in front of our eyes each and every second of the day!
What is wrong with this picture and what does it say about us that we allow this to take place? We have lost our moral compass and our priorities as a country and need to get them back! We have plenty to take care of here, let’s concentrate on fixing America for awhile!
One $1K magnetic bomb per target by MEK is cheaper than $1M per target by US forces. Israel it would seem has negotiated a better bargain than the bargain negotiated by either Bush.
This article is well written.
I remember that Israel was accused of using weapons in Gaza that were designed to lower the collateral damage. In other words only the terrorist was shredded and the innocent bystander who was a short distance away was not harmed. They are known as DIME weapons.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/dime.htm
Israel was also using cluster bombs in Lebanon to maximize collateral damage, as well as incendiary phosphorus bombs. Humanitarian my rear end...
"Bergman said the attacks have three purposes, the most obvious being the removal of high-ranking scientists and their knowledge. The others: forcing Iran to increase security for its scientists and facilities and to spur “white defections. He explained the latter this way: “Scientists leaving the project, afraid that they are going to be next on the assassination list"
Probably a effective strategy, and since Iran has made 'existential' threats against Israel, and not that surprising.
I think that Israel is getting tired of waiting for the United States to remove the threat with 'sanctions', and they will attack soon - likely by the end of Summer, according to our CIA Director (Panetta). They might also wait and strike shortly after the November elections to take advantage of the 'lull' of a transition.
The interesting thing to see will be Obama's reaction. It will put him in a difficult position, since he will not want to offend powerful Jewish interests in this country.
So few people died in Lebanon 1,125 when compared to the deaths that are occurring as we speak in Syria. Syria has yet to use cluster bombs to maximize collateral damage.
Israel would be well served if they actually did in the next war what they were accused of doing in the previous war. Dropping cluster bombs and bunker busters on Hezbollah and Lebanon to maximize collateral damage can lead to fewer deaths in Israel.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6981557.stm
The killing of civilians always happens in war. They are always targeted. We killed them by the thousands in the plants making weapons in WWII. I really don't see much difference in blowing up a factory and the workers with a bomb from a B17 and blowing up the head of the program developing new weapons.
Not really much different than blowing up a car with some terrorist mastermind using a drone. Israel might not be in a declared war against Iran, but they are surely in a cold war with them. Could anyone blame the US if we blew a scientist up that was working on nuclear weapons for al qaeda?
Scot H. Nichols, you're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
...
Ray-2459046, don't advocate for the murder of everyone in a religion. You're suspended for a week for violating #5 of the Code of Honor and if you do this again you're banned.
Could anyone blame a Taliban loyalist for killing a US nuclear scientist?
Nope, if they were in fear that the weapons were destined for them. Just like I think that it is fair that the taliban kills our soldiers, CIA, and other government people working in their country. As far as I am concerned, they are fair game. I would rather they not be killed, but I think they are fair targets. Whereas somebody working for some NGO providing water to people would not be considered a fair target.
The real difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is whether or not your side wins. If you win, you are a hero, if you don't, you die or go to GITMO or Belmarsh Prison.
saeid: you seem to think history only began in 1979. Perhaps if you put the Iran hostage crisis in the context of earlier US actions in Iran (like deposing a democratically elected, secular leader), your carefully chosen list of the history of terrorism might be more illuminating.
The Obama administration uses assassinations as a tactic every time a Predator or Reaper drone attacks and kills suspected terrorists in Pakistan or Afghanistan.
The Obama administration is sitting down in secret talks with the Taliban.
The Obama administration plans to turn over Taliban Gitmo detainees in an attempt to buy Taliban cooperation in a quicker withdrawal from Afghanistan. Imagine if Congress had learned during WW2 that the White House was in secret talks with Nazis or Imperial Japan in order to negotiate a US withdrawal and retreat!
LEARN MORE: Search for FOX NEWS or NYTIMES articles on Obama administration talks with the Taliban and release of Taliban prisoners despite bipartisan opposition in Congress to these talks.
duqu, we aren't going to win in Afghanistan like we did in Germany or Japan. the only reason that Iraq quieted down like it did was because we talked to the Sunnis their, if we hadn't, the surge wouldn't have done spit.
Afghanistan has never been conquered by force, and only a completely delusional fool thinks we can do so. the only way you would "win" is by exterminating them completely, and if you think we should try to do that, you aren't any better than the nazis you are whining about.
And WE are expected to believe this story because----it is from NBC-----NOPE---
TO many times in the LAST 3.75 years the --MEDIA---has run BS stories---mainly to make theobama look good OR to taint the TRUTH. Whether it is about the REAL WORLD events or as NOW about the TRASH ELECTION that thenobama is running.
SOME how I don't see Israel getting in bed with these terrorists--the MOSSAD is the BEST in the world at getting into a country and obtaining ALL the INTEL that they need--AND if need be pull off a dark op. SO unless this TERRORIST group has turned over a new leaf--there is a HUGE question that remains to be answered.
TODAY thenobama is going to address the UN--an ORG that has never really been for the U.S. OR ISRAEL---and ONCE again we will see the NOBAMA toss ISRAEL under a bus--by NOT standing firm and CALLING a spade a spade---ADMINAJERK and his GENERALS are looking at OUR COUNTRY as nothing but a PUSSY NATION--one that under NOBAMA has allowed ALL of the third world to walk all over us and IRAN intends to take FULL ADVANTAGE of OUR WEAK LIMP WRIST-ED PREZ!
YA ALL remember this---BARRY was raised as a MUSLIME in INDO and was told when he came here by his COMMIE MENTOR to say he is a CHRISTAIN---this is in the BOOK LIES about MY FATHER---aka DREAMS!
I QUOTE OBAMA---
Quote
" I ADMIRE RUSSIA, I HONOR THE RED NATION.' -FRANK MARSHALL DAVIS 1947-
"I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you @!$%# with me, I'll kill you all."
--Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
"They told (us) to open up the Embassy, or "we'll blow you away." And then they looked up and saw the Marines on the roof with these really big guns, and they said in Somali, "Igaralli ahow," which means "Excuse me, I didn't mean it, my mistake"." Karen Aquilar, in the U.S. Embassy; Mogadishu, Somalia, 1991
"The above was brought to you by a DHS-CERTIFIED TERRORIST---A VIETNAM COMBAT MARINE-AMONG OTHER PLACES---a VETERAN with an ATTITUDE" jscusmc69 65-2005 USMC RVN 65&67
and a delusional, psychotic too.
WELL If Im a as you say---delusional,psychotic---then YOU have NOTHING between your ears--in OTHER words an EMPTY HEAD---shame that I and others spent the time and BLOOD to protect people like you.
My post above and your answer means I hit a nerve and THE TRUTH.
Have a nice day and YOU deserve whatever you clowns get!
So what does the US gain by releasing this information? It just does not make sense to release it unless the Obama administration hates Israel.
obama DESPISES Israel! He DESPISES the USA also!!! This much is very obvious! The muslim would do anything to destroy Israel and us!
Trying to drag us into another war. If they can force Isreal to have to actually invade Iran then we will get dragged into it at some point.
It also puts a lot of people's lives in danger, TBA, so shame on the people who published it.
TB
I was thinking the same thing. Why would the US come out with this. This type of info should be kept under lock and key.
obama is a muslim! He was born in kenya! He's a communist! He hates america! He's gay! He's a terrorist!
lol.
Yes, yes, but enough about his good points. What are you trying to say?
I'm not exactly an intelligence analyst and I have no access to any kind of privileged information. I could have told you that this was going on. I've seen reports of Iranian scientists driving to work, a motorcycle drives up and magnetically attaches a bomb to the car. You'd have to be stupid to think it was anybody but Israel acting through local agents.
So exactly who's lives are in danger with the release of this information? Iran knows it, they're on the receiving end. They're the only ones we wouldn't want to have this information and they've already got it.
I believe if you read the translation, instead of Faux speaking-in-tongues, that Iran's desire is to wipe Zionism (not Israel) from the 'map' of history, but US:UK literatchik lack that finesse of awareness, and it doesn't sell any Twitter space.
Let's look at the scoreboard, Frank! How are we doing?
Number of countries the Persians have attacked in 100 years: 0.
Not very good, Don! They need to work on their offense!
Number of countries the US:IL SS have attacked in 100 years: DOZENS
Go Team USA:IL~~!
Lowest external government debt in entire world: Iran
Wankers! Pussies!
Highest external government debt in the world: US:IL
Go Team USA:IL~~! We are go for power-up to $20 T!
Please sir, may I have some more?
(get that kid out of here!)
Last remaining shari'ah banks defying US:IL USURY: Iran
I have a used car I'd like to sell them, Frank!
Haww, haww, haww!
Last remaining oil competitor to the House of Saud: Iran
Go Team USA:IL~~! We issue all the petro-dollars!
Last remaining treasury of gold bullion and gems: Iran
Mmmmm, bullion .... argghhlllll! ~( 8^(I)
Don't be a puppet douchebag and claim you are morally better as a Republican (Santorum and Gingrich), terrorism by ANY government is still terrorism. For being a Republican who supposedly are "Right-To- Lifers", I find it disturbing that you find it horrendous to kill unborn babies, but all good with blowing the crap out of scientists. Also, I am quite sure that we are just as dirty in this as Israel. Now, do you actually need to question why these countries hate us so much?
P.S. The term Douchebag is generic, not meant for anyone except for those who categorically fit into the profile, not directed at any 1 individual.)
Hey i have news for you they were blowing us up in Iraq.
nik: i'm just making fun of the obama haters who who show up with the usual and predictable nonsense about obama. Its cheap entertainment. :)
Anything to go against our President. Communist, socialist, anti-Christian, pro abortion, hates America, hates Israel, Food stamp president, redistribution of wealth, cavorts with American terrorists, Jeremiah Wright. Where do you Republican clowns find the times to be happy and chill a bit. This rabid right wing c r a p is getting old. But they use it all the time, back to the days of Lee Atwater and their hero Ronald Reagan.
It's all code language. Reagan...Atwater?....heros?...how?
TBAustin - I felt the exact same way when I read this. But the Obama administration can ALWAYS rely on NBC and MSNBC to release this kind of information that can NOT do anything but fire up liberals to paint Israel as terrorist aggressors.
Tell me - what would YOU do if our country was continuosly threatened with annhiliation? Israel is using whatever they need to for their very survival.
ninnybon: Iraq wars' dramas are being repeated!
Israel will vanish; Saudis and co increase oil prices and enjoy; British, French & co will jump and vanish in stages; US to carry the cross!
In our cases, more will be on streets!
Yes, Casandra, the very last thing we want to do is publish the truth in the media. That would be a big mistake.
Instead let's hear more about Brittany Spears latest stint in rehab.
As far as putting other peoples lives in danger, I don't believe anybody is surprised by this news, least of all the Iranians. Also, if the news costs the lives of a couple members of the People’s Mujahedin of Iran, I may not celebrate; but I won't cry either.
And now your IP address and info is put on the SS watch list, dopey!
Wright spews more hatred and racism than anyone on the planet and Obama sat in his church for 20 years! Oh, I forgot; Obama was just there and didn't hear a word he said!
Unless things change I think we have already won our last war. It seems that to many people can't keep their mouths shut. Yes, we are supposed to be an open society. But, that doesn't mean we have to be a stupid society. Heck, we have the press going all over the place and being allowed to tell the enemy, whoever it is, what we are going to do and how we are going to do it before we do it.
The only conclusion I can reach is that this administration has been lying to the American people. Sure, they've been telling us that a nuclear armed Iran is unacceptable. But, then they come out with this kind of stuff that undermines allied efforts to make sure that Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons. We don't want Iran to have the weapons, then we publicly chastise Israel for thinking about making sure that they don't have weapons, which just so happens to advise the world, including Iran, of such plans.
So, you can look at this several ways. One is that the administration, not just this one, but a number of them are too stupid to accomplish any objectives. Another is that this administration is looking to help the Muslim Terrorists and is secretly hoping that we have sharia law imposed in this country, with Obama being the Supreme Mullah. A third way of looking at it is from the standpoint of the libs who think that this is a country run by corporations. From that standpoint, the government never wants to do anything that easily and conclusively accomplishes something so that the corporations can continue to profit from the need to continue to solve the problems (after all, as long as we don't actually solve them, but just continue to try to solve them, then the need to fund the corps is still there). Realistically, it's probably a combination of all of the above.
Long story short, it doesn't matter what country has nuclear weapons at this point. No one is going to use them. It's just to prove to everyone else how big your penis is. That's it.
Chris: Ordinarily, that is so. But, what we are dealing with is different. We are dealing with a society that sees nothing wrong with strapping bombs on their kids so they can go blow themselves up in the mall. And, they don't have any shortage of volunteers who want to do so so they can acquire 72 virgins in the hereafter. Given that you still think that there is no way they would use a nuclear bomb? Wish I had your confidence. Glad I don't have your naivete.
" In a November debate, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich endorsed “taking out their scientists,” and former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum called it, ”a wonderful thing.” "
And these guys are supposed to be "Christians"?
Brad: You heard a few minutes of soundbites from 1 or 2 of Wright's sermons, and then say ALL of his sermons for 20 years were "racist"? Were you there to hear all of his sermons from start to finish(in context)?
ASSume much, don't you?
If that's the case, at least 75% of Americans can be labeled as bigots/racists(or just plain rotten people) for things they have said out of anger.
It wasn't too long ago that Obama stood at the UN and denied the Palestinians a homeland to show solidarity with Israel, and now you have the nerves to make such a statement.
Maybe Obama is releasing this information, with Israel's consent, for the same reason that Israel is releasing information about its planned bombing of Iran's nuclear facilities.
witchrunner, if you really believe that anyone on the planet is at risk of a clandestine nuclear bombing, you're a f**king idiot. You can identify exactly where a nuclear bomb originated from its isotope ratio. The idea of Iran using a terror network to nuke Israel or America is a fantasy straight out of a Tom Clancy book... it's not going to happen. If Iran domestically produced and utilized a nuclear weapon, they'd get called out on it in a flat second and NATO would flatten them.
this is what you get when you want the government to be more open. infor comes out that shouldn't get out. can't have it both ways , open or secretive, sometimes it's better to let it out and be free from the secret than pay forever to keep it quiet
Israel is NOT threatened with constant annihilation. For starters, they got a highly trained military that's more than capable of self defense, even when faced with multiple aggressors. They've successfully defended themselves and even attacked others in the past, what makes you think they're any less capable now?
Chris, who's the idiot? Iran has said it would use a nuclear weapon against Israel, and they don't care who knows because they believe Allah will protect them.
Say they build 5 nuclear weapons and use one on Israel and then issue a statement saying if there is any retaliation they will use the other four against European states, or countries who supply the world with oil. You think NATO would do anything then? Do you not know anything about these crazies? They don't care if their flattened, they're all suicide bombers with one big bomb in mind.
Obama is a terrorist that has taken over this country and turned it into a food stamp nation in exchange for votes. There are now more people being subsidized by the government now than in any time in this countries history and getting worse every day.... and this is by design.... Barack Hussein Obama is a marxist muslim that hates this country and he is doing one hell of a job in destroying this country while you stupid libs collect off the workers of this country. Liberalism is the enemy, and its time we go after you slugs.
I know that Israel has nukes and Iran isn't stupid enough to nuke them. This isn't a huge logic puzzle, "LogicReguired"; I figured with a name like that, you'd understand these simple concepts.
This is the stupidity you get when you try to make rules to war. Have the balls and smarts to say we want to protect ourselves and OUR INTEREST. If you get in our way we will destroy you. You idiots want to be such pussies about everything and have some moral high ground to go to war, and fight that war without anyone not in uniform getting killed. Grow up, these b!tche$ over there would kill you and your children and destroy everything we have if given the chance, luckily their still trying to advance from rock throwing so we got time, but some day they will be nuking the $h!t out of people and what will you and your NATO / United Nations do then. The last time we got peace we had to bomb the holly living crap out of some countries to get it. We are all friends now so let's try that strategy again.
Right spartan! Israel is the only country that has preemptively attacked all of its neighbers within the last 50 years. It is also the only country to attacked unprovoked the US and not have any retaliation for the score of dead sailors it left behind not to mention the hundreds injured. Accident they say? when The USS liberty in international waters was flying a 13 foot cerimonial flag on a clear day? They are a hostile country that has violated every UN directive concerning their country since it was formed. Still we support them politically, financially and militarilly
What, like those silly "rules of engagement" that our armed forces operate under? You're a silly little armchair Call of Duty soldier; go run along and pretend you know the first thing about combat somewhere else, little boy.
Iran isn't stupid enough to nuke them????? Says who? You? The people are religious fanatics who talk about destroying Israel everyday of their worthless lives!! Try listening to them before you determine what they will and won't do. They say they will do it, they talk about how the day is coming soon, how can you be so blind to believe what they have said for the last 50 years isn't going to happen once they're given the chance. My logic is to believe people when they say they are going to try and kill me and then go and build I bomb to do it.
Condescension, and name calling, the argument style of the left! Thanks for playing.
Really? The last time I checked, the economy tanked before Obama took office, and currently the economy is improving and jobs are increasing. Food stamp nation doesn't seem to apply, at least not as a result of the current administration. Marxist? I don't agree with all of his tax policies, but I don't see widespread seizing of private assets and redistribution to the proletariat. Muslim? His former pastor may have some questionable politics, but being Muslim wasn't part of it.
I'm an Independent, I mostly identify with Libertarian policies, and I disagree with many of Obama's policies, but I am so sick of counter-productive name-calling, especially when it runs directly counter to reality. All that does is convince your opponent that you don't, and won't, have anything to say that is worth listening to, and further reducing the chance of collaboration and progress in the future.
Karl Marx was totally against religion. He called it the opitae of the masses, so how can Obama be a Marxist Muslim? People like you are what is wrong with this country and you're just too stupid to realize it. I guess that the home schooled education you conservatives like to preach about, because our liberal schools are filled with actual knowledge, wisdom, logic, reason, and critical thinking.
our schools are filled with liberal democrat teachers that turn out little illiterate communists when they graduate. I have had to interview plenty of them when i was still working and they all expected to make top day for doing no work, while hardly even able to read and write.... the best thing i can say about our school system and our teachers is thats its disgusting and liberalism and unions have destroyed this country
Joseph,
You might want to look into the true unemployment figures before you state our economy is improving (the people that no longer on unemployment because it ran out, and the ones who have given up looking for jobs are not included in these figures, do some research and our true unemployment when Bush left was at about 10%, it has never dipped under 17% since Obama has come into office). The stimulus money, most of that was kept aside so that could be released now so that the economy would look better come election time, this is nothing but a political ploy. As for Obama, could you please explain then why at this point he is over $3,000,000 in legal cost (at our expense keeping his grade school, middle school, high school, and all college records sealed; what is he hiding?
He came into office promising unity, and then even with a super majority when he could not get a bill passed he blamed it on the republicans (the party of no), when in reality they had no power to stop the bill. But then at least they stood and fought for what they believed, I live in Wisconsin, and when the Democrats do not get what they want they run and hide, bunch of cowards, they should be impeached for not doing the job they were elected to do.
The sad thing is come election, we are stuck between bad and terrible, but I would rather vote terrible out of office and have bad in before we lose this country of ours, (if it is not too late already).
And you want fairness, then lets look at Obama the candidate and the president. Guantanamo, he made a pledge to shut it down, now he wants it open indefinitely. He yelled at Bush for going to war without congress assent, but I do not recall one vote cast giving him the right to help with Libya. He promised that Israel would remain our close ally, yet he has bowed to Arab Kings, invited the Palestinians to a state dinner, and snubbed to prime minister of Israel and would not even meet with him. He said he would have a open administration working hand in hand with both parties, then shut out the republicans and passed the bills he wanted with a super majority, and the ones too radical for even his party he then blamed the Republican for blocking it. He has been nothing but smoke and mirrors, a charlatan, and has ended up making Bush look good (and I did not think this was possible).
To me I hate both parties, they both stink, just they smell different. We need new blood, a new party or parties and start bringing this country back to what it was intended to be. Sadly, if our founding fathers were alive today, they would be called terrorist, because they would try to overthrow these people, they care about nothing but themselves and staying in power. No party cares about this country and would rather ruin it then give up power. We the people need to vote them out, bring in term limits for all political offices, and bring back the citizen politician that cares about us and not some special interest group.
chris: you throw around the concept of "Iran is not stupid" as if the concept of being stupid is a universal concept. You also have far greater faith in NATO than most people. I wouldn't bet that if Iran blew Israel off the map that NATO would jump in and blow Iran off the map. Plus, since you seem to think that they will always act intelligently, why do you think it is so intelligent to strap bombs on kids to blow themselves up? Why don't you do the intelligent thing and strap a bomb on your kid?
If someone threatens to kill you are you really not going to do anything about it and just trust that "they wouldn't do that because they don't want to facet the consequences?" You may want to take that route, but I'd much rather trust that they are telling me the truth and take action to make sure they can't touch me. Trusting that someone is lying doesn't seem to be a "wise" course of action to take.
Nothing, just an attempt to make it look like US is in the clear on this
1. There is a big difference between 'releasing' information and a 'leak'.
2. It was already common knowledge.
3. It kind of makes MEK look good to a lot of people.
If you were the 'supreme poobah' of Iran, would you risk it?
Right - depends on who let it out
1. You're waaaaaay off topic.
2. You can't possibly be serious. How many Americans are registered Communists? When was the last time a Communist won a state or national election in the United States?
Sounds like sour grapes. I'm guessing you fared poorly in school. The teachers do a much better job than the moronic politicians who try to impose their own political views, like the Texas School Board trying to remove Thomas Jefferson from the history books and making memorization of Jefferson Davis's (insipid) Confederate inaugural address mandatory.
commonsense,
I think the term is socialist, not communist. Bernie Sanders of Vermont is a self admitted socialist. Most of the major news media supports a socialist agenda. The President is a socialist, he even admitted that the constitution is to "limiting" for him. CZARS are a communist tactic as well.
Henry from AZ, you're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
Well heck then that makes republicans Fascists or Nazi's right?
Nazi is derived from the word National Socialism. Who is trying to nationalize things? That question is rhetorical.
commonsense: It doesn't matter what I think. Obviously I wouldn't strap bombs to my kids. Why take a chance? If they don't have nuclear weapons they can't use them. If they have them, they just might use them. Why do you think they are working to get them? So they can hang them up in the living room?
Iran pays off Hezbollah to set off bombs and launch rockets into Israel to kill women and children all the time. Turnabout is fair play; at least Israel targets individuals. If they did business like Iran they would just have thugs blow up marketplaces in order to kill everyone. Let me go cry crocodile tears for the hypocrites that make up the Iranian government.
All good points....
Biggest problem in the world today? US empire.
joeu: Damn right! If it wasn't for the US, the thugs of the world would have free reign. Damn the US!
And that US empire, man they are nothing but imperialists! Imagine. Europe gets taken over by the Nazis and what does the evil US do? They go and take over all of Europe! The Japs decided to drop a few bombs on a little harbor called Pearl Harbor and what does the US do? They take over Japan! Heck, the list goes on and on. Iraq sits around and has a decades long long fest and what does the US do? They go in and take over Iraq and steal all their oil at cheap prices. Heck, the US empire so vast, there's hardly anyone left that aren't citizens.
Logic Required - Since Iran denies they are even pursuing a nuclear weapon capability, I having trouble understanding how it is they say they would use a nuclear weapon against Israel?
Is logic required to understand such an assertion?
Why is it that as soon as Iran is discussed peoples fears run away with them, and suddenly they see the Soviet Union in 1962, or Germany in 1939.
Iran is a second rate power; it lacks the population, infrastructure and resources to go toe to toe with any of the other nuclear powers on the planet, except perhaps North Korea.
Also, having met a few people from Iran, I know that they are no more suicidal than people of any other nation.
ya right....The end of a string of the most liberal jibberish possible....Catch up on your history then come back to talk about Israel and the Middle East.
In the meantime, pray that the single individuals being killed are worth the millions possible if these people can actually deploy nuclear weapons....
justoneguy - you apparently have just-one-brain-cell functioning, or you might have read and understood my entire sentence.
You need to take a course in remedial English, so you actually understand what is being said around you.
Or... you can just keep spouting complaints about liberal jibberish, which you obviously cannot understand.
justoneguy, since you seem to be so big on history;
how many countries has Iran invaded in the last century, and how many countries have we invaded in the last century?
which country overthrew the elected government of the other in the 1950s?
I don't like the current aberration that is running Iran now one bit, but if you think that a lot of this isn't our own fault, you are deluded
Good for Israel!!!!! They are working in self-defense!!!!
Are you sure or have they turned into a bully? Doesn't Israel have nuclear weapons themselves? Oh, I can have it but you can't. What hypocrites we are.
Henry from AZ - the difference is Israel isn't using nuclear weapons to expand their religious beliefs, as the zealots in Iran leadership clearly would when they have them. Not my view - just taking them at their own words !! Pushing Israel "into the sea" seems to always be in the rhetoric coming out of Iran.
Then the same could be said for Hamas or Hezbollah. They are just acting in self-defense. They are defending their homes, their land, and their people. So how is this any different?
Henry from AZ - stewgotts,
You two just don't get it do you? Iran is a Radical Islamic State bent on eliminating Israel in the name of Allah. The only reason they haven't attempted this yet is they don't have a big enough stick. They want one and the entire free world wants to stop them.
Is that different enough for you?
Stewgotts - How is launching missles into reisdential neighborhoods with the intent to kill civilians defending anything in your mind?
Since in this case, it's Israel attacking Iran, isn't Irans development of a nuclear bomb actually its self-defense against Isreal?
Israel knows that once Iran has a nuclear weapon, they will no longer be allowed to act like the "Bullies" they are.
Hamas and Hezbollah went to war with Isreal and lost. they became part of Isreal so they are terrorist in their country. no matter which way you look at it the west bank and Gaza strip is Isreal. they reap the rewards of the win
jonedep, are you really that stupid. The dumbing down of some so-called Americans!
Israel seems to be freer than most other countries in the area, but it's still running this special flavor of apartheid--Palestinians face constant and severe discrimination.
Yeah, totally! Self-defense! Like, as in, Israel already has a f**king sh*tload of nuclear weapons and just doesn't want anyone else in the sandbox to have cool toys too; that kind of "self-defense", right?
Jim
No I like to think I'm pretty smart - unlike yourself.
To me, being an American, means you actually believe in the US Constitution - ALL OF IT - unlike yourself.
People like you read the Constitution and still have no concept of due-process, cruel and unusual punishment.
I bet you even claim to be a christian - all the while supporting murder and killing.
Palistinans = muslims = the enemy that wants us all dead
Israel = all it wants is peace and be left alone = democracy
solution = eliminate muslims
Israel has had the capability to eliminate Iran or Palestine or anybody else in that region for quite some time and have they exercised it? No so how can anybody call Israel bullies?
You're no better then the Musslims they are forced to defend themselves against. One preemptive strike would do them a whole lot of good and they sit trying to negotiate and live peace. Bullies indeed.
You people are being missed on F O X N E W S website.
Israel is a Radical Jewish State hell bent on cleansing all of historic Palestine of its original Christian and Muslim Inhabitants. What don't you get? Firing rockets into a residential neighborhood that was just build on your old neighborhood after your home was demolished is self-defense. During Cast Lead Israel knowingly bombed homes filled with civilians and destoryed residential areas including schools and hospitals. They routinely shoot young children for getting too close to a fence. How is that self-defense?
Israel is the only country that has preemtively attacked every one of its neighbors as well as the US in the last five decades. It is the only country to attack wthe United states without provication killing scores of sailors and injuring hundreds more in what they say an accident by unmarked aircraft on a sunny day, in international waters against an unarmed vessel flying a 13 foot cerimonial flag that could be seen for miles. It is the only country that never has retaliation for these deaths due to such terrorism. They are only our friend when they want their funding or our support. They are terrorists. Ask any crew membor of the USS Liberty on that final voyage... hunddreds injured, 34 dead.
are these supposed to be facts are did you just pull them out of your ass like i suspect? None of what you say is true at all.
And honestly believe that Israel instigated that type of behavior?
Those kids might be straped with explosives. It has happen before.
Israel is not the instigater in this region .
Believe what you want and vote for Newt.
The world is overpopulated anyway
Why did Isreal put it 'self' in Iran - looking for a place to park their nuclear arsenal?!!!
stewgotts,
Here are your own words!
It's not at all clear that nuclear weapons can be used to "expand their religious beliefs". (What does that odd expression even mean, anyway?)
I don't relish the thought of an Iranian bomb, but the truth is, even if Iran develops nuclear weaponry, they will soon enough realize that they have something they can never use.
We all assumed this was going on. The US special ops are everywhere doing basically the same. This is a designed leak. Wonder why? US wants to disavow any involvement maybe? The Iraseli's want credit so they can play mum maybe? Why though, would we or the Israeli's "out" such an important ally or tool inside Iran?
The difference is that Israel doesn't claim that Iran should be wiped off the map. I'm sorry so many people seem to have trouble with this concept, but anti-Semitism does that to you. Israel would have no issue with Iran if the loonies there didn't insist on the destruction of Israel. Israel and Iran (Persia) are not natural enemies as their ancestral lands have nothing to do with each other.
Chris, I would recommend a few things for you. One would be to go visit the middle east. Go to Israel, Egypt, Jordan, talk to the local population there. It is very easy for you to sit in front of your computer in complete safety and dictate to other people what they should be doing. If you actually visited these places (based on your comments - it is quite obvious you never have) and got a better understanding of the conflict you would be able to make more informed and more intelligent comments.
You have never had to live under the constant threat of war, you have never had to live under the constant threat of bombs going off in your neighborhood, so therefore how can you think you are qualified to dictate to the Israelis what they should be doing? If you are so worried about the "stolen land" as you call it, you have a lot of protesting to do as every single country on this earth has been founded on somebody else's land. In fact, most of the land of Israel was purchased, legally. Quite unlike the land you currently inhabit, if you are so concerned about stolen land, I would suggest you offer up your home to a Native American. I think you can see how you are a massive hypocrite, telling Israelis to just leave the land they have built up, yet you are not willing to leave the land that was stolen from the native americans. The Israelis have turned an undeveloped desert into a modern day paradise, it is actually quite impressive. They have no oil, yet have the best and most diverse economy in the middle east. Instead of their leaders building more gold palaces and gold cars for themselves, they invest their wealth into building up the country and its citizens. Please provide me the names of Muslims who have contributed to the arts and sciences, literature etc.. over the last few centuries - how many nobel prize winners have there been? Now how many Israelis in just over 60 years.
I am definitely not a Republican (I may lean towards fiscal conservatism in some cases), but am very liberal on social issues and am a true independent and look at issues from all sides. There really is no justification for your hatred towards Israel other than jealousy maybe? I'm not sure why you hate Israel so much to be honest. Israel has contributed so much to the betterment of the world since their existence, meanwhile the Arab countries and Iran have contributed zero - let me repeat that ZERO. I don't agree with a lot of what Kornfed says, but he is 100% accurate in you trying to equate moral equivalency between Muslims and Jews. It doesn't exist and you easily fall for the propoganda of Hamas and Hezbollah. They purposely release pictures and videos like the ones you show as part of their overall strategy. They purposefully shoot rockets from schools, hospitals, using children and women as human shields, knowing full well what the Israeli response will be. Then they parade these pictures in front of the media - quite clever if you ask me and good enough to fool people like you - but not clever enough to fool intelligent people. The amount of restraint Israel goes through not to kill innocent civilians is more than any nation on this earth has ever done in the history of war. What nation do you know drops pamphlets and comes over the loudspeaker telling civilians to leave before they are about to strike back at bombs being launched their way? You sit in safety and comfort and have the nerve to tell Israelis what they should do Chris?? You have no idea what they go through on a daily basis and despite all this, they manage to have a thriving society. I implore you not to just read somebody else's anti-semitic blog and comment on it, but to do your own actual research. Travel the world, talk to people, inform yourself, become a responsible citizen of the world rather than some troll sitting behind his computed spouting nonsense.
commonsense -
You're not all all clear on how Iran would expand it's religious beliefs?? Have you been living in a cave?? They want to have an Islamic caliphate in the whole region !! And having Israel smack in the middle is unacceptable to them.
And these idiots saying Hezbollah and Hamas are "just protecting themselves" really are screwed up in the head. Firing missiles at civilian populations is tantamount to DEFENDING themselves?? In what civilization?
Would that "soon" be before or after they lob the first on into Israel?
Some of you stretch my imagination to try and grasp your logic(?).
"I'm gonna kill you... I'm gonna kill you... I'm gonna burn down your house and kill you..." and on and on...
"Nawwww... He isn't gonna do that! It's against the law! They'd put him in JAIL, maybe even execute him! He isn't gonna do that..."
MURDER is against the law and in some States the punishment is DEATH but there are a lot of prisoners on DEATH ROW who knew, without a doubt, that if they killed someone they would probably go to prison and die for it but they did it ANYWAY!
Do you, somehow, think the leaders of Iran are going to have an "epiphany", see the light and after spending all that time, money and human capital decide a nuclear bomb wasn't a good idea after all? Just, suddenly decide to leave Israel alone?
Where do you come up with this logic(?)??? They believe it is their right and duty to wipe out Israel and anyone else that doesn't convert to Islam!
Do you not listen or read the NEWS? The Islamic leadership in IRAN believes they are supposed to BRING ON Armageddon so the WORLD can be saved by the coming of the Prophet!
They WELCOME the Nuclear Holocaust and are willing to be the "fuse" to start it!
History seems to show that when one becomes involved in assassinations people die. Just look at the history of the US Kennedy family. Who was it that was assassinated in south east Asia shortly before John and Bobby were? Who was it that coined the real or imagined fearful phrase: “The Asian invasion?” Does not the US, in many ways, have very close ties to Israel? Who is next? Stay tuned: time will tell.
If you are a student of history, you will also notice, that as the human race, we never seem to learn from our past, that wars aren't worth the loss of life, not even one life.
Perhaps Jackie had Kennedy wacked...after all the sleeze bag was screwing interns in Jackie's bed.......and I am sure she knew about it....wonder who Obama is screwing besides the American people.....It seems to be a trend with Democrats.
beanne,
It's a trend with people in power. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_sex_scandals_in_the_United_States for a comprehensive list. Plenty of both parties in there.
beanne, forgot about Newt didn't yah?
New Gingrich is a Democrat? He must be. He married two of his mistresses; cheated on all of his wives; wanted an "open" marriage (all of this while criticising Clinton on his affair with Monica Lewinsky) and served divorce papers on his wife while she was in the hospital recovering from breast cancer surgery. Or, is this the trend with Republicans? Can't figure this one out.
beane: obama is screwing all of America, period. so far he has helped the middle east, kinda funny when he isn't Muslim, duh, bet you he is. can't be a Christian, man doing what he is doing to America and the Catholic church.
when religion figures out that church and state has to be separated, this country will become great again. the fall of the USA is mostly of the church trying to take over government. they talk of smaller government but makes more laws limiting our independence. aka a marriage between a man and woman, trying to stop abortion, funding faith based initiatives, laws against gay marriages, freedoms that government should have no part of telling us what we should do! It's more government or less but not both
Michael
I gotta say - Obama hasn't screwed me half as bad as Bush did.
thats because obama stuck it up your ass and your too dumb to know it. It also means that you dont work and collect off the government. Only welfare slugs and the non - workers come out ahead with the boy obama
Kaufman, Gingrich is not my choice for POTUS, but you ruined your argument when you mentioned the service of the divorce papers. Even the ex-wife said she requested the divorce and was not served on her "death bed". Perhaps you are confusing him with John Edwards.
Furthermore, it was already clarified that he was not looking for an "open marriage"; he was looking for a divorce from the first cheating girlfriend. He wanted to divorce her becauser he had higher political aspirations that Marianne didn't want him to go for; she wanted him to stay home and be her boy toy. When he said, "Calista doesn't care what I do", he meant career-wise, not morally.
Marianne wanted him to make her his entire world while he had other plans. Perhaps instead of responding as a spurned woman, she should reconsider that she got what she asked for, having been the slut when he was married to the first wife.
Now, is that why you think we should keep that nasty POS oBAMa in office with his nasty cow wife spending millions on her lavish lifestyle? Seems that has nothing to do with him and his government homeboys doing their best to hurt Israel and ruin America.
Okay, I am ready to be collapsed and threatened with law enforcement investigation for exercising my First Amendment right now.
Are you another one of Newt's lovers or something? Do you have any sources to back up your claims or are you just shrugging off everything his ex wives say and believing everything Newt says?
Damn i cant believe these backwards assed Israelies are working with
a group that has killed a bunch of Americans.
Israel only cares about its self, they are no ally of America.
They will never have peace.
Fred
I counted five rights gauranteed in the first ammendment, being an idiot wasn't one of them.
Mike: Have a "little" respect for women, lay off "Obama bashing".
jonedep, I never called oBAMa an idiot but if the dunce cap fits he can wear it. Don't bother hiding your feelings; if you think he's an idiot just say it; you have that Consttutional right...until he tries to completely take it away.
Rickster, implying that I am gay does nothing to support your position that you do not like Gingrich. In fact, your name calling only diminishes any credibility you may have borrowed. That being said, perhaps you should put Marianne's comment into perspective instead of being duped by the choppy sound bytes that were put togwether and called an "interview".
Perhaps when you lkearn to read just a little better you will understand what "Gingrich is not my choice for POTUS" means.
Rickster, By the way, I also cited his first wife's public clarification of the circumstances under which she was served with the divorce papers. It was his first ex-wife and their two daughters that stated the wife wanted the divorce and was not served under the conditions that the Lame Stream Media have indicated. That negates your supposition that I was, "just shrugging off everything his ex wives say and believing everything Newt says ..."
Perhaps you should try taking a Berlitz class or a Rosetta Stone course in basic English skills; you won't look so silly next time.
Come on MSDNC...If these guys were in Libya or Egypt you would call them "rebels", but since they helped Israel you call them terrorist...
Excellent point
uh..."dissident" is the same as "rebel".
Uh...dissident may be the same word, uh...but the headlines used another word... uh..."Terrorist"
uh..they are OFFICIALLY a "terror group" as per the official listing. The headline is accurate. Then in the first sentence they are described as a dissident group.
And technically I don't see the word "terrorist" in the headlines.
seems pretty accurate and balanced to me. its a complicated situation and the article portrays that.
whining about what MIGHT have happened in DIFFERENT circumstances is kind of silly...("IF they were from libya blah blah blah")
Wrong, SecState Clinton calls MEK terrorists.
George W. Bush called MEK terrorists.
Ronald Reagan also called MEK terrorists.
I believe Der Cheney stated that "any country which supported terrorists would become an outlaw (pariah?) among the 'community of nations' (sic)"
Put on your sorry shawl and worry beads, 'da 'BFF' IL gone to 'da dark side.
For all those who condemn the actions by Israel, what do you think is going to happen when Iran get a nuclear bomb? Do you seriously think this pariah state really needs the technology to have electric power plants? They have been given alternatives and offered help to develop transparent nuclear technology to allay the fears of their neighbors and the world but insist on a shroud of secrecy around their program. Israel is doing the world a favor taking out those whose sole mission is to make Iran an nuclear power. Israel has never threatend Iran's existance and stated publically that their mission was to destroy Iran's society.
Israel sucks, Iran sucks harder. End of story.
muslims suck
Spartan
Great post.
Maybe Iran will get a nuclear bomb and they will blow each other off the face of the earth - end of story.
Remember the USS Liberty..... It will tell you who the terrorists are. Enough said!
killerteam
Spoken like a TRUE christian.
Ah, it's nice to know that Iran is finally reaping the benefits for all those years of supporting Hezbollah attacks on Israel.
Amen! And for supporting and conducting attacks against our troops in Iraq...
Since we were in Iraq 'legally', because Cheney proved there were 'WMDs', or if not exactly proved, repeated the Big Lie enough times that he got the SC vote!
The Soviets give aid to Grenada to build an airport, and Reagan goes off the deep end trying to salvage his disastrous first term worst recession since the 1950s by attacking a sovereign nation, ...but woe to the Iranians for protecting their flanks.
Not just Hezbollah. Hamas and sundry others, while repressing its own people by terrorist means (mass executions etc.).
Herman, the Democrats in Congress had full access to the intelligence that GWB and Dick Cheney did... and they voted FOR going to war.
I guess what you are saying is the Democrats either lied to you, or didn't bother reading the intelligence before declaring war on Iraq (FYI, Congress declared war on Iraq, not Bush).
Those fools who voted for the war, did so because they were sold a bill of goods by the Zionists in the Pentagon, the Zionist controlled media and the Zionist lobby groups, starting with AIPAC, who have members working on the staffs of most congressmen. They thought they were voting for the "Cakewalk". See below:
Zionist warmongers like Ken Adelman and the Zionist Washington Post pushed the war in an editorial titled, “Cakewalk in Iraq.” Jewish supremacists Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz told you that Iraq would “Welcome us as liberators.” Iraq became the longest war in American history. Here is a report from USA Today: “Pentagon officials estimated for the first time Wednesday that up to 360,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans may have suffered traumatic brain injuries.” Now that’s not counting tens of thousands who have suffered maiming, amputations, or death in this war based on lies.
Wolfowitz, the architect of the war, claimed the war would cost around 50 billion dollars and last a month at most. His cabal of fellow neocons fed the NY Times Zionist writers a line of bs about anthrax and WMD, which was all untrue. The Mossad was also instrumental in providing false intelligence to the US.
milidad
Boy are you WRONG.
Congress had access to intellegence provided to them BY the Bush administration. Intelligence that had been doctored and manipulated.
They even lied to their own people, just ask Colin Powell. That's why he resigned. He went to the UN and gave his BEST "Adlai Stevenson" speech and laid out why we should invade Iraq. He later found out that 80% was either outright lies or examples of "they should have known better".
Do your own research, go look at the speech Colin Powell gave to the UN. We now know that almost all of it was either outright lies or exagerations of threats that weren't really there.
Ever heard of Valarie Plame? You known about the reports that Iraqi intellegence agents were trying the get metal tubes to make WMD. This was presented as fact - there actually were "reports" of this taking place. That was the intel given to not only Congress but the entire world. The part that was left out was that our own CIA said it was BS and NOT credible. That's the part they left out, that's the willfull ommission of the truth - or LIE.
The part about a connection between Iraq and Alquedda came partly from a detainee at Gitmo. You know, one that was waterboarded over and over. Well they kept asking him "what do you know about an Alquedda connection"? After repeadily beng tortured he said "sure I know all about Saddam and Alquedda". The only problem is that he was lying just so they would stop torturing him.
Sad that people are still willing to belive that GWB and Cheney were truthful about WHY we invaded a country that had done nothing to us. They lied to the US public, they lied to their own cabinet officials, the lied to Congress, and they lied to the world.
I hope you do recall the Communist government of Grenada took over in a bloody coup in 1979 suspending the nations Constitution, the population of Grenada did not have a say in this take over. Also we did not invade simply because your comrads...er the Soviets were building an airport there but that the USSR, Cuba, Nicaragua (all socialist/communist countries) were bringing arms in. Our help was requested by what was left of the democratically elected government as well as surrounding island nations who were growing concerned for their own safety.
Granada was liberated and free elections were held (oh the US was sooo evil!). The people of Granada were able to freely choose their form of government and they chose a Parliamentary democracy and their Constitution had been restored.
Read it's history.
Funny how you socialist libs neglect to mention these major parts of history.
You people don't really know the true history of "ISRAEL"!? Read It!! These people are bully ass terrorist from the beginning of their bs history! The only difference is back in the day they would just get sent on their way, and they would coward right on out. Now, we back them(pisses me off)! Like a Nazi officer said....."we would take their children from them, and they wouldn't fight us, they just let us take their children"! They didn't want to die right then themselves, so they didn't even fight for their children!! Millions of them in big groups, and they just stood their with that stupid f'n look on their faces they've had for thousand's of year's! Plz stop backing these criminal's!
Check out the past lives of top Israelis, including their PMs. They were involved in terrorist organizations and actions against the British! Israel may have nukes, but her greatest weapon is the memory of the Holocaust. When things don't go the Israeli way, they bring up the camps, and it's a big pity party. When they're spying on us (Pollard) or killing our sailors (USS Liberty), it's all so hush-hush on their part. I trust them not, never have, never will.
MtnGrrl, good thing they don't give a rat's behind what you think. Keep running your ignorant mouth from your pedestal in the mountains, where you are not surrounded by people that want to kill you. Perhaps when someone wants to kill your children you'll feel differently.
hell mtngrrl. I don't trust you, so everything is fine...
translation of ralphh's babble:
blah blah blah zionist blah blah zionist blah blah zionist blah blah zionist kill the jews zionist blah blah blah evil jews blah blah blah seig heil blah blah
All you Jew haters are just morons remember what those terrorists did on 9/11 imagine what that idiot would do if he had nukes, and to even mention the holocaust as a pity party makes all you nazis no offense to all my german friends, half my family lives in Isreal, and has served in the military including my dad and none of then are terrorist, all i can say is you love those terrorist countries so much why don't move there, they will kill you on the spot.
Good job Obama administration put isreal in spot they must actually go to war yay! What a group of idiots..... Who cares if they are doing this its how things are done in the middle east. Crap Iran was blowing up our soldiers in Iraq or giving Bombs to terror groups to do it for them.
how does this report mean isreal has to go to war? This is all information that was publically known, since iran made the charges first. you act like this changes anything for isreal or iran. it doesn't.
ninny, Iran has not killed one soldier in Iraq, nor has their been any hard proof they provided even one IED to Iraq. Iraq has been making IED type devices on their own for decades. They are mostly home made devices.
Do you have a problem with the fact that the US armed Iraq, in their war aginst Iran?
The the US, with Britain's blessing, installed the Shah and a brutal and repressive autocracy backed up by the Mossda-trained SAVAK. The people were brutalized and slaughtered by the thousands, but the US got half of all the oil revenue, so they were very happy with the Shah.
In the Iraq-Iran War, the US supplied Iraq with military equipment and more importantly to the Iranians, the training and equipment to make mustard gas and binary nerve gas (tabun) which was used against the Iranians. We backed and supplied the very same Sadaam that we later hung.
The embassy hostage situation came about because Iran wanted the Shah sent back to Iran to stand trial for crimes against his own people. The US refused, protected him abroad, and finally brought him the the US for permanent residency when he was found to have cancer. This really outraged the Iranian people since only the US and British governments among major governments, actually supported the idea of not returning the Shah to Iran.
As a candidate, Reagan agents (including Rumsfeld) made promises of military spare parts and other aid to Iran if they would hold the hostages until after the election. They decided that there were no conditions in which American politicians could be trusted, because Reagan was so willing to sell out his country and support two groups against his country was supposedly opposed --- Iran and the Contras. They kept citing the Persian version of "there is no honor among thieves" as why they never trust American politicians.
Then there have been the embargos, the constant bickering, the feckless backing of Israel against everyone, and most importantly the continuous double standard of saying that it is okay for Israel, a warlike country who has fought constantly with its neighbors, to have nukes, but to say that Iranians, who have never attacked a neighbor, cannot have them. No person with more than a 3rd grade intellect sees this as anytiing except dangerous arrogance on the part of the US.
Ralph,
It's even more bizarre than that. We also armed Iran, under the Shah, before the revolution. So, in the early 80's, Iranian F-14 Tomcats would come under fire by US supplied Iraqi SA missiles.
I remember an AP photo of Dick Cheney shaking hands with Sadaam Hussein at a state dinner in Baghdad in the early 80s. I wonder if Vader Dick misses old Mustache . . .
Who cares who they use in getting the job done. Since when is the Obama administration so moral? They have no problem killing Americans in Yemen, not that I don't applaud that strike. When it comes to Israel somehow they have to be holy. I say use anyone to kill these genocidal maniacs.
Exactly you have to use a different method when you do not have billions of Dollars of predator drones, This really is like the frying pan calling the kettle black?
Saying we should "ki|| these Zionist genocidal maniacs" will get you prison time.
It's a felony to even SAY that in EU, that's how tight the IL leash is on your neck.
Now sit up and bark! IL wants another $3 billion of your last life savings!!
Good dog! That's a good dog!! Now roll over....
-
When we adopt the tactics of the Dark Side, we join the Dark Side.
you should be ashamed USA and New Media as now you have and will have caused people to die from this story----may God have Mercy on your souls for the deaths that you will be accountable for-try telling God why you thought it is OK to report news that will cause deaths-----
I know this is hard to understand, but one stupid official letting his mouth get ahead of his brain does not mean the rest of America is behind him. You don't have dumb politicians in your country?
you realize there is nothing new in this story? Iran made these charges already. Its public knowledge.
Who is going to die from this news? The enemy already knows what's going on, unless they're so stupid that they believe their nuclear scientists are the most unlucky SOB's on the planet. I personally do not think they are that stupid.
Because we still have free speech in US and aren't muzzled by your Askenazim.
The most disturbing thing about this story is how many Americans are upset that it was published.
In the old USA, we used to have these people called investigative journalists. They often reported on the the secret hijinks of government, and we appreciated their work because we thought the American people ought to know what was going on. That was back when we still believed in government by the people.
In the neoUSA Police State, the citizens are so brainwashed they actually become angry if anyone leaks information to the public.
haha, no doubt Cassie.
Friend for me?
Awwwwk!
She hate me!
If Iran sponsers Hezbollah and other groups then let Isreal sponsor who they want. Iran can't whine about a policy that themselves in fact use. As for America and the Obama administration, maybe they weren't in on the killings but our own CIA uses tactics and Iranians to further our own agenda. War with Iran is inevitable and when we kick their backside in a blitz not helping with rebuilding which is the cause of dragging on of wars, their Supreme Leader can whine to another group as for the United Nations, they are not united and we should not be a member, what a waste of money. America supports 67% of all the budget from Unicef to Peace keeping missions in Darfur, that seems to be working out so well.
No one wants to address or even mentions the REAL problem. Just look at a list of the top 20 countries with the highest birthrates.. they are all in Africa and the Middle East. Guess which country has the 4th highest birthrate in the world? Afghanistan!.. with one of the poorest economies.. so these desperate kids turn to religion (often violent religion) for support. And of course it all serves Islam very well... a little peace, love and responsible family planning would change the whole region for the better. This is the problem that NO ONE addresses in Africa.. Darfur especially.. a lot of people are dying because a lot of people are being born!
Yep, and if we are going to go to war let’s make sure that Iran is told all the intelligence connections a head time so they can be KILLED..... Again this shows just how stupid we have become just to get 5 MINUTES OF FAME..... The old saying LOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS still holds true.....
since we're not going to war with iran your post is irrelevant.
And just like our Social Security Trust Fund now 'owns' 48% of the $15 trillion in unfunded Fed deficit debts for these Perpetual Crusades 'contingency actions', but we have ZERO say in war policy, or how much our SSTF will be tapped to pay. You realize USA is completely dead busted flat broke, or are you living in Israel?
God's "Chosen People" were not chosen because of their upstanding nature.....for the Son was sent to not for the righteous, but to bring sinners to repentance.
DO NOT KILL comes to mind when thinking of terrorists,
jesusiswatching: You say "chosen people". I say "sons of GOD". Only thing JC did was steal each christians identity. One of the most criminal acts happening today. The "chosen" and "sons of God" are each that seek and find and not just a spot on a map.
TERRORISTS
There are bad terrorists and then there are our terrorists.
The War On Terror was BS from the Gitgo.
There is no such thing as murder to a religious fanatic. it is always 'the hand of God'.
Is that what obama calls himself...oh yes "God"
i never heard obama call himself that..are you hearing things in your head that aren't there beanne? tinfoil is on sale at walmart. :)
As Rev Billy Graham said to the crowd, when we stood before him in the WADC mall in the summer of 1969, "Bomb the gooks for Jesus!!"
Then he dove into his swank limo as Huey's bombed the crowd with tiny american flags on little white parachutes, ....and on their next sortie, dropped pepper gas.
Nice religious mafia you guys have.
What is the point in publishing this article?
Ratings, political ammo to give the GOP something to work with. Reckless journalism.
The same point of most articles. To inform people. See not everyone in this country has bought into the bs Israeli narrative and believes that we should be offering them the unconditional support that we do. If Egyptian terrorist had been killing Israeli scientist while they were building their first atomic bombs would that have been acceptable news. Israel, the country that decries terrorism more than any other is using terrorist to further their own goals. It just shows how immoral they really are. If the Israelis were developing a new fuel that would replace oil would it be ok for the Saudis to assisinate those Israeli scientist to protect the economic well-being of their country? People in this country need to educate themselves a little bit more about the true causes of the Arab-Israeli conflict instead of just repeating the same old tired bs. "They are surronded by enemies, Arabs wanna kill all Jews, all the Israelis want is peace." If you believe any of that you're just plain ignorant and uninformed
The point of the article is to up readership. It is the reason MSNBC runs these rumors about Israel and Iran. This article source is "U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity." In other words, even if someone could have made the whole thing up, it is published as fact.
yes by all means this information will be very useful to me and millions of others who have no control over any of it. For Iran that's another story. I'm a realist, well informed and very well educated. Keep stoking the fire and stirring the pot it's almost dinner time. Isrealis want's, go beyound peace, do the math, and read up on you're History. All we want is peace as the Euro's told the Native nations people, and throw in all you're land as well.
Last month, Time Magazine ran the same story. They cited "unnamed Western intelligence sources."
Why is it OK for the Obama administration to target American citizens with his drones and wipe them off the face of the planet...but he has a problem with Israel defending herself? Obama is a Jew hater and an American hater plain as the nose on your face.
what does obama have to do with this? lol, jew hater and a american hater? wow, pretty strong words from the safety of your mothers basement. :)
vermontguy,
Read between the lines.....MSNBC does not do anything w/o the permission of the almighty dictator Obama cause they are his biggest cheerleaders. Why else would they print such an article but to make Obama look like a good guy and the Israel look bad. He has NO plans to support Israel and he is hoping that Iran gets the nuke so that they can wipe Israel off the face of the earth....If you don't think that this administration uses the news media ( as all Presidents do when they are on their side) then you are the one that needs to get out of the basement.
lol, got your tinfoil hat adjusted beanne? dictator obama?
maybe they "printed" this article because iran is in the news and people might come here and read it and make revenue for msnbc? lol, sometimes the simplest explanations work just fine.
Unlike you, I don't see conspiracies everywhere.
Guess what, we don't care what religion you are! We are a secular nation! Official US policy since Reagan is to sanction any country which supports terrorists.
Go out, Israel!
That's why we attacked Afghanistan, since neither the Afghan people, nor the Taliban, had anything WHATSOEVER to do with the Saudi terrorists who planned and funded (one small part of the PNAC) attack on America.
Why is it so hard for some people to understand why this story was printed? Its news........rather big news. When Hamas fires a rocket that is news and no one complains, so what is the problem here? Why should our media and us as a country bend over backward at the cost of our morality and legitimacy in the world to white wash the crimes and hypocritical politics of Israel? Last time I checked this was the United States not Israel and I was typing this in New Jersey not Tel Aviv.
Lets see,Israel hates Iran, Iran hates Israel. USA funds Israel, Israel spends it on "terror" organization? Whats wrong with this picture? Wake up America,DC is a Racket! If you don't think DC had a hand in this,your sleeping at the wheel. This is going to effect your economy in a bad way. For starters,think gasoline price.
Of course the US had their hand in it. Israel is the only Democracy in a region surrounded by dictatorships and extremists. And yes, they are extremists because they don't believe in the same things we do and they are a threat to a way of life that all Americans would agree is a pretty good one.
As for gas, Iran alone can't affect our gas prices dramatically and we already pay significantly less for gas than any other country in the world.
Israel killing an Iranian scientist is not terrorism, it's a war. Every country in history has killed key individuals that pose a threat to them in order to gain the upper hand. Bin Laden was killed by the US because he is responsible for killing thousands of people and plotting to kill more.
Israel is an ally to the US and is the world's leader in technology R&D next to Silicon Valley. They have helped the US develop military technology that we otherwise wouldn't have and in exchange, we support them as the only democratic state in the Middle East.
For all you on here bashing Israel and blaming Jews for all the problems, you are missing the point - This is not about race, religion, or political affiliation. The basic fight in the Middle East is the controlling powers in the Arab countries not believing that Israel has a right to exist or that a Jew has the right to breath. That's a humanity problem.
Furthermore, those "1%, elitist Jews" that some of you are bashing on here are the ones that have the ability create jobs in America so you can get off your couch and stop making outlandish comments on these websites.
Sorry I wasted my lunch responding to this rubbish.
OOOh-RAH! Brogbrog. Simple and to the point. The dynamics are beyond common comprehension. This is war. Eat or be eaten... and the USA is the chef! I'll have seconds, please. To everyone, who's table do you want to eat from?
If we are going to fight terrorists then we need to go in with a win win win attitude and do whatever it takes to win. Diplomacy is only when normal people are fighting with normal people
You will never win an argument, much less a war, against a CONCEPT. It has always been here, and as long as there is injustice in the world, always will be.
people decrying they are called terrorist must have missed where they have been labeled such since the 70s. Not Obama's term
Just because Obama is a Left Wing Liberal Socialist Extremist does not mean that he has caused all the problems
just because you call him a socialist extremist doesn't make him one..except in your warped mind. :)
No, "the reason we have him in charge" is because for 35 years we have been following CONSERVATIVE economic policies and theories. The results are there for any INTELLIGENT American with a modicum of research skills to see.
And for the record, what "insults" were there? Vermontguy stated the previous commentor had a "warped mind". And his comment is pretty warped and is directly from the Faux News, Rush Limbaugh soundbite playbook. And you spend two full paragraphs accusing him of everything from basically being a deadbeat, to having no education.
From your comment, if ignorance is bliss, you are an incredibly happy person. Now please, be my guest. Call me a "leftwing nutjob". Because to be specific here, your opinion means about as much to me as 3 year old's opinion. Actually less, because the 3 year old might have an opinion I value. And would undoubtedly state in much more intelligently.
u mad bro?
In support of liberals in general; I would rather be a leftwing nutjob than a rage filled impotent Obama hating conspiracy theorist weak minded FOX-ruled puppet of Bif Pharm, Big Oil, Big Ag, and Big Finance.
PS I work, pay taxes, drive a nice car and live in a nice house
Whew! Now lets breath and relax. Guess what, life doesnt have to be so bad.
Don't guess what a terrible person another user is, never helps the discussion. Vermontguy is an idiot banned, first post flameout.
This article is totally irresponsible. It is the kind of act that can start wars simply because some nut reads it and does something stupid. No one in the right mind doubts who was involved in these assassinations. One only has to look at who has the most to gain. This is pathetic and just plane wrong.
how so? this information was publically released by iran already.
If the Iranians were smart they would start respondng, in kind. Israelis and Jews make easy targets throughout the world. Start knocking off a few of these and they would put an end to these incidents.
Except the Persians haven't attacked another country since the Year Dot.
Frank, you aren't really that stupid are you? Israel ALWAYS retaliates when its people are murdered by foreign governments. Iran kills some Jewish citizens, and I guarantee double that amount of Iranian officials would suddenly BLOW UP..If the USA was fired upon every day by Canada, we would do something about it, why do you simple minded lemmings not understand that Israel is doing what it has to do to survive. 1 dead Iranian Nuke scientist is a good start.
Frank,
Isreal would leave everyone alone if people would leave them alone. All they want is a place of their own to feel safe. Everyone around them walks around with their panties in a wad because...well actually I don't understand WHAT their problem is. Maybe it is because they arn't Muslim. Reguardless, Israelis are used to this. Their people have been treated worse then dogs for YEARS. If your neighbor fired at your house everyday-killing your children, would you sit there like a coward, or would you do something about it?
Stupidity wrote: "If your neighbor fired at your house everyday-killing your children, would you sit there like a coward, or would you do something about it?"
That's precisely why the former residents of the Occupied Territories are firing back at Israel.
1954 Greada Treaty it's the treaty signed between Dwight D. Eisenhower and the Greys, ... in return for bits and pieces of their technology, we would provide them with abductees Congress added the words "In God We Trust" on all paper money. ... In February 1954 There was a meeting of governments way back in 1975 in Britain, at that meeting it was made known that the ''greys'' were totally uninterested in our welfare except for their own needs. It was also made known that the ''greys'' reside on the Moon, under our oceans and under our ground look very much like the creatures in the movie, ''Fire in the Sky.'' Human, Dolphin and Sea Turtle. Bin' around for ages. Live underground. Under the Sea. Manipulate Mankind forever." They are the ELVES!!!!! They are the war makers and doers of all evil!!!! They are Con-Trolled by a group of Humans that have been enjoying technologies........... such as we are now just scraping the surface of......... for eons. The Apocalypse is coming! "lifting of the veil" or "revelation") is a disclosure of something hidden from the majority of mankind in an era dominated by falsehood and misconception, Planet X is the key to the survival of mankind...Nibiru is know biblically as the Kingdom of Heaven or the Holy City,where the angels and God himself reside,and also were Jesus will be at the 2nd coming..Nibiru was the home of satan and the fallen angels before they rebelled. Satan and the fallen angels are locked away INSIDE earth until the Planet X returns(judgement day)
Chris--Didn't anyone telll your mother not to stand in front of the microwave when she was pregnant?
Thank you for the Scientologists P.O.V. on this issue..
Are you eligible to vote? Now that's scary.
I dont know what you are smoking but would like to try it if it makes you think like that
Chris, are you a conservative republican, if so I'll give you a pass, due to the nature of who you are.
Israel has made itself into an isolated militant supremacist theocracy/ethnocracy with ICBM nukes; a very real and rapidly increasing threat to itself and to the whole world. A pariah among nations. Justice demands that UN and NATO impose resolution just as involuntary, disruptive and humiliating to Israel as Israel has wreaked upon occupied Palestine for generations. The Jewish State must be made to recognize an armed Palestine with externally enforced autonomy, eviction of all settlers, true contiguity encompassing Gaza, the West Bank and Jerusalem together, neither pinched nor parceled, and pay punitive reparations.
Isreal wreaked upon Palestine? You have it wrong...Palestine needs to back off of Isreal. Isreal deserves to be a soverign nation of it's own. THEY have been persecuted for YEARS. Palestine is nothing but a bunch of undeveloped terrorists in training. In fact have you looked at the shape of the predominently Muslim countries in that distinct area? It is a cesspool of filth and violence. At least Isreal bring civilization and democracy to the area. I applaud Isreal for wanting to be in the area, and for trying to at least clean it up. And Gaza was Isreals from the beginning and should all be returned to Isreal. One day it will be...and that ugly mosque will be demolished.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That should be "Consumedwith stupidity".
to John WV: Have you never heard of the Holocaust? Jews in Israel (but not in America) just want to say "never again" to that. This times it's Arabs and Iranians, not Germany and Italy. So what. A holocaust is a Holocaust. Jews in Israel will take the whole world down to avoid another Holocaust. Iran will push Israel to some warlike act, and boom...the whole world will be at war again. That will not be America's fault...we don't know what to do in the whole matter. Especially we don't know how to treat Israel as a friend and ally...because Herr Hitler is alive and well(?) in the White House.
Israel cooperating with terrorists would make it a TERRORIST-SPONSIRIZED STATE!
Nobody is trying to terrorize the Iranian people, If these are state? sanctioned Assassinations it is not Terrorism, I think our little warmongers in the White House is wagging the dog?
Iran doesn't exist. The Iranian people are Persians, just migrating rug weavers and goat herders with no fixed claim to the land. Their land belongs to Israel.
'We won, you lost. It's just business, get over it. Now get off my land."
Real Old Testament folks.
"Sponsirized?"
And you REALLY think the US hasn't used this same technique before?
Hilariously dead-on, Herman!
American news is drumming, increasing tension as if the “Iranian threat” was the Super Bowl. Our Iraq debacle was similarly hyped. We Americans are again being conditioned to not just accept war, but to demand war to relief anxiety. This is happening because Israel wants it to happen. Iran has a recent history of peace and is an impediment only to Israel's cruel and outrageously exercised Mideast hegemony. Israel, AIPAC, the One Percent and traitorous monied Israel Firsters have way disproportionate control of America government and press. I'm scared and you should be too.
The only ones talking war are the Republicans get rid of them get rid of the threat
UAW? Reps,Dems??? You libs always try and make it political.... Think about what is right instead of what is good for a LIB!!!!!
Sorry, but the tin-foil hat you have on is blocking out the realization that Iran has been funding Hezbollah (which has been integrating itself in countries like Lebanon and Syria, as well as supplying Hammas) to fight proxy wars like raining down rockets on civilian populations for years. I've been to Israel several times and can feel the constant "on the edge" fear. I was at a hotel in Tel Aviv the morning gunmen on Zodiacs were were taken out by Cobras and Hueys headed for the beach. I understand what they go through. They don't have to "Control" our media. This crap happens. Two days after I left the first time, A young girl was killed or injured (I really can't remember which as it was over 20 years ago) on the same stretch of beach.
If what you say is true, about them controlling our media, then everything would be reported here, but it's not. If it really was, your head would literally spin. To make matter even worse (for you) I never met an Israeli who wouldn't be willing to give the shirt off his back for me. Really fine people, always ready to lend a hand. I'm not a fan of any "proxy war" but the dilemma for or against Israel really is unique, and having spent some time on that side of the fence, and haven seen the wonders Israel can and sometimes does (depending on who wants them dead this week) for others prompts me to love her and give my moral support.
What is right and good for both libs and cons is to get the he|| out of the Middle East and stay there.
John and UAW...get your heads out of your asses!
Yes!
How confused and stupid is this article? I suggest that we send roses to Iran and ask the head Mullah to be our Valentine. Let's kiss and make up and elect Ron Paul President in 2012. Besides, the NRA and the ACLU are both terrorist organizations along with the teachers unions and the Sierra club! Only the Quakers were pure until Dick Nixon ruined them!
hwat, Good post. I agree. I have NEVER met a Jewish person that wouldn't go out of his way to help me out. That entire region is horrible except for Isreal. The surronding nations are filled with anger, terror, and deceit. Isreal is just a conveinient target. They target Isreal when they get tired of killing their own countrymen.
Totally agree with"hwat" and “Proud To be an American-510035”. “John WV” and alike, are watching to much science fiction TV shows. Believing made-up history as facts? Where do you get your “facts”?
Iran is a terrorist sponsoring state, fact. Plan you next trip out the bubble you live in and go visit Lebanon. See for yourself how Hezbollah (terrorist organization) built in infrastructure within the state of Lebanon totally sponsored by Iran. Next sponsored terrorist group is Hamas, fact. Really, get your head out of the sand hole you’ve plant it and realize that Israel is the loyal ally of the United States of America.
You forget PETA. They're greater terrorists than the NRA, ACLU, and Al-kayduh combined.
Israel supports terrorism all around the world. They directly assasinate their percieved political enemies in other countries. They also assasinate key scientists and engineers if they are a threat to their exports. For example if Turkey builds F-16 software, since they will compete with Israel, they would be a threat. 3 engineers working on this project got killed in 1 month. Take a guess who killed them?
Does anyone remember the flotilla raid on international waters? At the same time with the raid, a rocket was fired on a Turkish naval base in southern Turkey by the Kurdish terrorist group PKK working with Israel. This was Israel's message to Turkey who irritated Israel by placing surface to air missiles in that naval base in protest of Israeli bombers who bombed Syrian suspected nuclear facility by flying over Turkey.
Does anybody remember the foiled terror attacks of Israel in Egypt? Before the Liberty incident, Mossad agents tried to blow up American targets in Egypt. Then the hope was that America would accuse Egypt and perhaps declare war which would help Israel. But the attack was foiled when the bomb exploded early and uncovered the Israeli plan.
Then there is liberty which they tried to sink with unmarked planes, again to accuse Egypt later on. The list goes on and on. Before Israel was born, the Jewish attacks on the British and Arab targets are well known. Israel is a terrorist state.
By the way, what happened to the van that was caught on Brooklyn bridge on 9/11 with explosives and Israelis in it. TV channels reported it briefly, then it disappeared from the news.
Well said, Mike.
israel also bombed the King David Hotel, kiling many Brits and others - hundreds were injured and killed. The same with the bobming of the Semiramis Hotel - a Christian-Arab owned hotel. In both of tehse instances, the terrorists were dresses as Arab Muslims to throw suspicion on that group.
Well said, Mike.
israel also bombed the King David Hotel, kiling many Brits and others - hundreds were injured and killed. The same with the bombing of the Semiramis Hotel - a Christian-Arab owned hotel. In both of tehse instances, the terrorists were dresses as Arab Muslims to throw suspicion on that group.
As for the group of Israels you are talking about, Mike, they were incarcerated here in teh U.S. for 3 months and then quietly let go. They appeared on Israeli t.v. with the defense that they were only there to "document" the event. the problem is - and which they never explained - how did they know to come to the U.S.A. on that day and document an event nobody else seemed to know was going to happen?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStJ5BgadPs
The interesting (and chilling) part of the youtube link is Colin Powell admitting that Israelis were detained in connection with the events.
Israel has to do what it must do. It is surrounded by enemies.
Ask yourselves, how many Israelies have, or for that fact, is willing to die to protect America? I am certain you will for the first part find few, and for the second part find none. Please stop allowing our children, husbands, wives, mothers, and fathers to fight and die for a people that would never do the same for us.
Scott Fisher puts it best. Israel is surrounded on 3 sides by enemies and needs to do whatever it takes to survive. If that means working with a group with a shady past, so be it.
I like how you all defend the actions of Israel when they attack civilians as well as the US when they find us eaves dropping in on them while they commit war crimes but mostly I love the way you make them out to be heroes and forget your country’s history or world history as a matter of fact
The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War.[2] The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members, and severely damaged the ship. At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula
Attack survivors contacted in 2007, by John M. Crewdson for a Chicago Tribune article about the attack, "to a man" rejected Israel's mistaken identity explanation. Lt. Gen. Marshall Carter, the director of the NSA, told Congress that the attack "couldn't be anything else but deliberate." The deputy director of the NSA, Louis Tordella, stated that the attack "might have been ordered by some senior [Israeli] commander on the Sinai Peninsula who wrongly suspected that the Liberty was monitoring his activities." In May 1968, the Israeli governmentpaid US$3,323,500 (US$21 million in 2012) as full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 in compensation to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, under threat of a congressional investigation, it finally agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the final U.S. bill of $17,132,709 for material damage to the Liberty itself plus 13 years' interest.
But the best part of this history is to this day we still give them billions of US tax payer money gotta love the irony there.
I like how you all defend the actions of Israel when they attack civilians as well as the US when they find us eaves dropping in on them while they commit war crimes but mostly I love the way you make them out to be heroes and forget your country’s history or world history as a matter of fact
The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War.[2] The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members, and severely damaged the ship. At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula
Attack survivors conta
Wrong. Very wrong. Evil incarnate wrong. It cannot be surprising to honorable men that every murderer has implacable enemies.
"How the faithful city has become a harlot! Once righteousness lodged in her. But now. MURDERERS!" --Isaiah, prophet of Israel, murdered by Israelis.
"God's people?" "Conspiring with terrorists"? "To insure their survival"?
Since when and for what reason does a gang of murderers have any right to survival?
They prove themselves to be nothing whatsoever as claimed, having nothing whatsoevfer to do with God or His promises. God is nothing more than an embarrassment to these men. For if these people truly were "God's people" they would trust in God to save them from their enemies AND GOD WOULD DO SO. But they do not trust in God. They do not even believe in God. These so-called modern-day "Israelis" are murderous frauds, even as the Bible AND ALL THE PROPHETS OF ISRAEL tell us.
All of the prophets of Israel have condemned these men. They cannot possibly win this monstrous conflict, nor shall evil ever long succeed, nor forever deceive.
"Woe undo you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, 'If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and of them ye shall kill and crucify; and of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of the righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, all these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord."
Herein is their sin, that they, to this day, refuse to honor God the Lord, and go about trying to establish their own system, pretending out of both sides of their mouths two different things: to the world, they posture as the "Chosen people of God (whom they neither believe in nor honor)", and therefore claim to be thus exclusively entitled to seize the territory of the promise to Abraham unto themselves; and to God they give a stiffarm: 'come, let us reason together?' No! But they refuse to even discuss the religious question, their leaders being entrenched in the position that there is no such thing as a "chosen" people any different from another on the face of the earth because it embarrasses them to take this position when they go to the United Nations, so they deny it, claiming to be independent of and in no need of the God of Israel, whom they despise and dishonor to his face, needing none of His laws or morals, only an army and weapons and their own self-created mandates to enforce their dominance for the sake of their meaningless dominance.
Can any such schitzophrenic state long endure upon the face of the Earth? Must it not someday utterly collapse in an instant under the weight of its own massive self-contradictory folly and prideful arrogance?
"Then He said unto me, 'Son of man, these are the men that devise mischief, and give wicked counsel in this city: Which say, It is not near; let us build houses: this city is the cauldron, and we be the flesh.' Therefore prophesy against them, prophesy, O son of man. And the Spirit of the Lord fell upon me, and said unto me, Speak; Thus saith the Lord; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel: for I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them. Ye have multiplied your slain in this city, and ye have filled the streets thereof with the slain. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Your slain whom ye have laid in the midst of it, they are the flesh, and this city is the cauldron: but I will bring you forth out of the midst of it. Ye have feared the sword; and I will bring a sword upon you, saith the Lord GOD."
"Son of man, thy bretheren, even thy bretheren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel wholly, are they unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, 'Get you far from the Lord: unto us is this land given in possession.'"
These people who have seized control of the land of promise speak a lie. They are not those who are entitled to the promised land by divine right. They are the impostors who have killed the Son, the vineyard's heir, that they might take the vineyard his inheritance as their own possession.
"Until Shiloh come, WHOSE RIGHT IT IS." THE PROMISED LAND BELONGS TO JESUS CHRIST, THE RIGHTFUL HEIR, AND TO HIS FOLLOWERS.
Therefore those imposters who have seized the land by force have no rightful claim there. They shall be cast out of it again for they speak a lie, these MURDERERS!
they are a lilsted terrorist group for having targeted killings of americans.
Mabel, nobody invited Israel to that corner of the world. They came to live there on their own. They then took up arms and kicked out their neighbors. It was their choice to create enemies around them.
Some naive, uninformed poster typed: "Really, get your head out of the sand hole you’ve plant it and realize that Israel is the loyal ally of the United States of America."
You've got it backwards. The United States of America is the loyal ally of Israel. The way you've described their relationship is provably false.
When it served their purposes, they blew up our sailers on the Liberty (most likely with our military leaders' approval!), to then blame it on their enemies so that we would support going to war with them. The truth has since been declassified for all who want to know it.
As multiple posters above mentioned, they also had ADVANCE KNOWLEDGE of 9/11, and instead of stopping it or making it public knowledge, they sent film crews to document it (who also happened to have explosive devices...but Hey!, that's been written out of history completely...), who were arrested for DANCING IN THE STREETS OF NEW YORK AS 9/11 HAPPENED. Simply put: F* them.
Sounds like my ally to me!: Anything I can do to aid them, I should do...and any time they can allow (or directly cause!) the deaths of some of my countrymen so as to advance their agenda using BS presuppositions (aka: lies), that should be cool with me too!
Want a balanced budget, and a strong, sustainable America? Cut $3 BILLION a year from Israel to start. And it WON'T mean they get destroyed: it'll just mean less attacks on places like Lebanon, less wars by us against places like Iraq, and less pro-war propaganda against places like Iran. In summary, less reasons for Iranians and other muslims to hate Israel (and us) in the first place.
Obviously Republican Primates do not watch the debates. You vote for these clowns you own the message. The only new Peresident you will have is Obama but you will have a new Democratic congress