By Anna Schecter
Rock Center
A curious global industry has emerged that caters to wealthy foreign women willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars to give birth in the United States and get instant U.S. citizenship for their babies. The hefty price is worth it, according to these women, because it paves the way for easy access to American public schools, universities and jobs as the children get older and green cards for the whole family once the child turns 21.
The women stay at controversial birth tourism centers, often hidden in suburbia. The centers have riled neighbors and ignited outrage on Capitol Hill.
“They are gaming the system…and people should be put in jail,” said Representative Phil Gingrey (R-Ga), one of several members of Congress trying to put an end to birth tourism.
The United States is the only country in the developed world other than Canada that grants jus soli or birthright citizenship. The U.S. law dates back to the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, ratified after the Civil War to ensure that all freed slaves and their children would be American citizens.
NBC News gained access to four birth tourism centers in the New York City borough of Queens. The owners, all women, said they know their industry is controversial, but they hope it will soon be recognized and supported by the U.S. government.
“Yes, our business is a sensitive topic, but we have a lot to offer the American culture and economy,” said Katie, a business owner who asked that her last name not be used.
“These women are the economic elite…and they are fueling the economy here. I take them on shopping trips…one woman bought 15 Coach bags,” said Katie, who said she piles her pregnant clients into her van for the hour and a half drive to Woodbury Commons, an upscale outlet mall in New York where shoppers can indulge in such luxury brands as Prada, Gucci, Dior, and Coach.
Katie runs her business out of two houses, one for pregnant women and one across the street for new mothers and their babies.
“I spoke to a lawyer before opening my business to make sure I would not get into trouble with U.S. authorities,” she said.
As with the other businesses NBC News visited in New York, many of Katie’s pregnant clients are Chinese women who were already in the United States or who travel back and forth between countries. She said the percentage of her clientele who are birth tourists varies from month to month, but she has had close to 150 clients in all since she opened her business in 2008.
She said her clients all want the comforts and familiarity of the traditional Chinese practice of zuo yuezi, a term used for the month of rest and recuperation for the mother following birth. According to Chinese tradition, the mother rests while the babies are cared for by a nurse. Feeding, bathing and sleeping times are meticulously organized in charts. A chef cooks a special diet of Chinese food with lots of meat, seafood, and cooked vegetables for new mothers. They eat five times a day, and do special exercises to slowly build back their core muscles.
“Chinese culture has a lot to offer in terms of pregnancy and new mothers’ health,” said Katie, who added she hopes that her business can spread the healthy traditions to other cultures.
Her business also helps the women navigate the logistics of obtaining American birth certificates, passports, and Social Security numbers for their babies before they fly home to China.
“We help them get information, even drive them to where they need to go to get the papers, so in the fastest possible time, they can get everything settled,” she said.
The cost of the rooms in her house range from $2,000 to $5,000 per month, depending on the size of the room, length of stay, and the woman’s financial resources. The price includes food, laundry, and care for the baby.
The women give birth in hospitals near the birth tourism centers, paying in cash. The hospital fees alone can reach as much as $10,000. Parents usually stay three to four months and spend a total of as much as $30,000 for lodging, airfare, and medical expenses.
Katie said demand has grown so much that she had to rent her second house last year.
“In August alone I had to say no to three prospective clients,” she said.
One wealthy new mother renting a room at Katie’s facility told NBC News that she came to the United States from an eastern Chinese city for the final three months of her pregnancy.
“For my baby, it’s a chance to, a step to two countries’ cultures…Chinese culture and American culture,” said Mrs. Chao, who asked not to be identified by her full name.
While in the United States, Mrs. Chao and her husband bought an iPad, suits and dress clothing, luxury brand perfumes and baby clothes from brands like Polo by Ralph Lauren.
She said that she hopes her newborn daughter, Emily, will return to the United States to attend high school and college. When Emily is 21, she could apply for her parents to become legal residents in America.
Lily, from Beijing, was also staying at Katie’s facility, and asked that her last name not be used. She told NBC News that she was pregnant with her fourth daughter and that she would have to pay a fine if she were to give birth in China. China’s one-child policy discourages women from having more than one baby.
Emmy, staying in the room next to Lily’s, came from Shanghai to give birth. She said she hopes to bring her daughter, her second, to the United States for schooling.
“The mentality is healthier for children in America,” said Emmy. “In China, the children are under too much pressure in school and they have to take too many tests.”
There are no official numbers on how many women are coming to the United States as birth tourists. The most recent statistics from the National Center for Health Statistics show that births of babies on American soil to foreign mothers increased from 5,009 births in 2000 to 7,462 births in 2008. This is a tiny percentage of the more than four million babies born in America each year. There is no tracking system in place to record which countries the mothers are from or why they are in the United States.
Most of the pregnant women come to the United States legally on tourist or business visas and the State Department says it cannot turn away a woman solely because she is pregnant. However, officials do have the right to turn pregnant women away if they can make the case that the woman is coming for the express purpose of taking advantage of American health care.
"When determining if an individual will be allowed to enter the U.S., Customs and Border Protection officers take into consideration the date the child is due for delivery and the length of time the individual intends to stay in the U.S.," a State Department spokesman said.
Southern California has been the hub for birth tourism centers for Asian women over the past decade, usually from South Korea and China.
In March of this year, authorities in the Los Angeles suburb of San Gabriel closed one center after neighbors complained about noise from the babies.
“It was kind of strange seeing the pregnant women walking around,” neighbor Taylor Alderson told NBC News.
City officials closed the center for operating a business in a residential area without a permit. The owner was fined $800.
Still, birth tourism businesses have popped up across the nation over the past five years.
NBC News found dozens of web sites offering packages to expectant parents from around the world, including China, South Korea, Turkey and Eastern Europe. They advertise birth tourism centers in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, Miami, and New York.
Some of the Web sites blatantly advertise the advantages of free public school in America, a chance to get grants to colleges like Harvard and Yale, and an easier path for the whole family to get green cards once the child turns 21.
Republican lawmakers have taken aim at birth tourism. Representative Gingrey introduced legislation in January that if passed would prevent the practice. He said that both Katie and Mrs. Chao, while not breaking the law, are certainly violating the “spirit” of America’s birthright citizenship law.
“They’re taking advantage of our country and they’re really not giving anything in return,” he said. “They have crunched the numbers and they know that even though they have spent $30,000 in this birth tourism cottage industry that in the long run, they’re going to get a whole lot more out of that than they put into it.”
Gingrey wants the 14th Amendment to be reinterpreted so that citizenship is only given to children born in the United States to at least one American parent or a parent who is a permanent resident.
“They have gamed the system and the misapplication of the 14th Amendment has allowed them to do that,” said Gingrey.
Angela Kelley, the vice president of immigration policy and advocacy for the Center for American Progress, disagrees with Gingrey. She said that a reinterpretation of the Constitution is unrealistic and would undermine the fundamental nature of the United States.
“I don't see this type of legislation having any traction, or being taken seriously,” said Kelley. “I think something as really fundamental and integral to this nation's character: that you're born here, you belong here, that we're not a country club that you apply to-- that would be met with enormous resistance from all sorts of quarters...from left and from the right.”
Kelley said that she does not in any way condone birth tourists.
“It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, the idea of somebody… taking advantage of something that is so unique and important to the character of this country as birthright citizenship,” she said.
However, Kelley argues that banning birth tourism would be impossible to enforce without drastic and unrealistic measures. She said enforcement would hypothetically require costly pregnancy tests for potential female visitors of childbearing age, a complete violation of a woman’s privacy.
“And really, our government resources being used to do that, rather than track down terrorists or other people who actually mean to do us harm? I mean, there's...a cost-benefit ratio here that's crazy, not to mention just frankly, insulting to women,” she said.
Looking at the issue as a whole, according to Kelley, the number of foreign women coming to the United States to give birth is extremely small and there are far bigger immigration problems for Congress to solve.
“Of the top 10 problems facing this country, this isn’t even in the top hundred,” said Kelley, who added that cracking down on birth tourism is not only a waste of time and resources, but also potentially short-sighted.
“I don’t know if 20 years from now, what we’ll have is—someone who was born in this country, left as an infant, came back…and then discovers a cure to cancer,” she said. “I think we’ll celebrate that moment, who that person is and probably, the thing that we’ll celebrate the most is that they chose to come to this country.”
NBC News' Rima Abdelkader contributed to this report.
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We Americans are the biggest bunch of saps on the planet.
We let these people use us and our Constitution like we're a bunch of cheap ladies of the evening.
Pathetic. When will our legislators ever grow a spine and stop this abuse?
AGREED!!! SO sad but true!!!
When studying the fall of the Great Roman Empire, similarly you see that they gave away land and titles to non-Romans in the years before the collapse of the Western empire. Unfortunately, we already know how this will end!
We wouldn't be letting these abuses continue if I had my way. I'd have every abuser of the 14th amendment arrested. I'd also see to it that the amendment was clarified so it would be less open for abusive interpretation. The amendment was made to protect the children of freed slaves in the USA -- NOT for illegal Hispanic border-crossers and rich Chinese women to set up a leeching umbilical cord to tap whenever they want free benefits from our country.
With this kind of BS going on, my friends, who have gone through the hard work of attaining U.S. citizenship, are really being slapped in the face. I resent this and I wish our government would put a stop to it immediately. RICH ANCHOR BABIES!!
We would sell out to anyone for some cash. I guess we should be honored that they spend few thousand dollars buying expensive bags but what about the thousands spent by our government for their kid"s education and everything else that comes with being a legal resident? It is all about GREED around the world, there is no more honor left. What does this say about the Chinese people who don't want their kids born in China? How pathetic.
Notice, you see, that money talks again. Women who can 'afford' to have their kids here are the ones who get the benefit. So do you really think this will ever be dealt with? Not when your piggy faced politicians need the money so they can get reelected, so they can get more money themselves.
Kind of crazy that we have so many idiots occupying different cities in our country complaining about the lack of opportunity in this country while we have these other people wanting the chance to have all of the opportunities that this country offers. I am almost inclined to let this continue so we can have a better society of people who like this country, even though I feel that what is being done is wrong. But what is more wrong, our own citizens bashing our country or new citizens who want what we have to offer?
"The United States is the only country in the developed world other than Canada that grants jus soli or birthright citizenship. The U.S. law dates back to the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, ratified after the Civil War to ensure that all freed slaves and their children would be American citizens."
If our politicians would fix the wording of the amendment to more explicitly aply to only what we know it was intended for, rather than intentionally abusing the amendment in attempts to buy votes the problem would be resolved. Until that happens our nation will continue to be robbed like a sleeping man on street corner guarding a pile of cash.
Actually, if you look into "birth tourism" you will find that it is a VERY small percentage of US babies born:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-08-17-birth-tourism-arizona-border_n.htm
4,255,156 babies were born in 2008, so "birth tourism" is not a big deal, and the women are here legally.
I'm not trying to use numbers to prove an opinion of mine, so I will add that the article goes into the number of babies that are born to un-documented or illegal immigrants, that number was much higher in 2008: (same link as above)
This article makes it sound like Birthing Centers are giving the US an overload of babies, which is frankly not true. Illegal immigration is producing around 8% of babies born - when these babies become citizens they will be supporting the American women who have decided not to have children (24% in 2008) - that is 1/4 of legal, American women who will not give birth - the immigrant children will help pay Social Security, etc... so really, in my opinion now, it is a good thing to have babies born here for the future of the country.
Above stat from: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2010/06/25/childlessness-up-among-all-women-down-among-women-with-advanced-degrees/
Yeah, and those outlet Coach bags are made in China!
You are all missing the point that they are leaving once the child is born. They are taking them back to China (in this case) to grow up Chinese. They are paying for the hospital stay with cash. All they are really doing is giving their child an opportunity they would not otherwise have in the future. There is no drain on the US taxpayers here.
The American law that allows this is evidence of the suicide wish of the country. The law defies common sense and rationality. To paraphrase Charles Dickens, if the law says this then the law is an ass, an idiot.
An anchor baby by any other name is still an anchor baby. When will Congress address the immigration problem?
The Constitution can be amended. It's time for a balanced budget amendment as well as a correction to the 14th Amendment.
But if you want to get really sneaky, the states can pass a law taxing the foreign parents for giving birth. Let's say it's an even number like $1,000,000.
If you don't pay your taxes, we have punishments for you.
So when they try to bring their parents back in, they will have $1,000,000 plus penalties and interest waiting for them.
But more importantly, the majority of Anchor Babies are not born to the wealthy on Visas.
MSN showed it's liberal colors again by not mentioning the number of babies born to illegals. And the illegals don't pay for delivery or other hospital bills!
We simply need to give the illegal immigrant parents of Anchor Babies the choice of taking their baby back home with them to their country, or having the child become a ward of the state.
That is COMPLETELY Constitutional.
And even if thet don't put a tax on babies born to foreign citizens, they can AT MINIMUM MAKE THEM LIABLE FOR THE HOSPITAL BILLS!
There is no Constitutional Protection for the Parents! We must end the policy of allowing illegals to stay here because of their kids. If you are illegal - you must leave.
There is no Constituional Authority given to the Federal Gov't to force State Schools to educate illegal aliens. Or to force Hospitals to care for them. They would become accessories to ongoing crimes. It's time to prosecute a few hospitals and press the issue. The Federal Gov't would have to issue immunity for the Hospitals, and there are no where near enough votes to do that in Congress.
As army-3854635 aptly stated - you are missing the point. This article is about Birthing Centers which cost the US nothing.
Birthing centers are NOT illegal immigration acts - that is another topic, I'm sorry I brought it up, but if I didn't give all the information, I would be jumped on for giving misleading information.
Yeah, my great-grandparents didn't come here to just so these people can do the same...wait....
Suggest all you "No Anchor Babies!" ignorati actually learn a little American history; and, maybe turn off Fox news to read a book every once in while. The fact is immigration is GOOD for the country. Especially if the people are affluent enough to pull this kind of stuff off.
whiney retarded jackasses.
So the last argument was that this child can come back in 21 years and discover the cure for cancer. They can also come back into this country in 21 years as a serial killer. Why roll the dice? If at 21 they want to become citizens, let them apply the right way just like any other immigrant. The 14 Amendment needs a serious overhaul to prevent this abuse of our system.
The truth is that there is really nothing in the 14th amendment that actually say that any child born on US soil gets citizenship. It is an interpretation that needs to be challenged in the courts. The actual applicable section of the text of the amendment reads:
Whether or not foreigners visiting on tourist visas are considered "... subject to the jurisdiction ..." can be debated since they are only here temporarily as visitors and are not fully subject to all US laws. If a court challenge is made and the Supreme Court rules that these children are US citizens, then it is high time we start the process of amending the Constitution to change it. We need to put an end to this fiasco once and for all. What is going on today is definitely not the intent of the amendment at the time it was ratified and it should be corrected. The amendment should be changed so that only children born to legal residents of the United States are granted automatic citizenship.
Wait a minute, here you imply the constitution needs to be changed to reflect changes in time (like its so much easier to come here and have a baby vs 200 years ago), but when it comes to guns which we are allowed to bear to defend us from the British no changes are needed. I'm confused. (Actually, I'm all for updating the constitution to modern common sense, and for me that includes the 2nd)
of course tourists are subject to all US laws, but that isn't what the term means.
The 14th Amendment was for the former slaves. To declare them as citizens even while many couldn't prove where their parents were born. Many didn't even know their parents at all.
It needs to be changed NOW. NO CHILD should be granted automatic citizenship unless at least one of his parents is a US citizen. If we got rid of the "Anchor babies" and their Illegal parents we will solve much of what is wrong in this country. In some regions, such as TX, AZ and CA "Anchor babies" take up a good third of the school attendance. Think of how much better our schools there would be if the teachers had less students in their classes and could actually TEACH.
In Boston, the greatest number of Illegals are Irish. Send them home, and the same deal. Less students, much more attention in the classes.
For the jobs that their parents do, require welfare recipients, those who get state housing, etc. work a certain #of hours a week. We're not talking rocket science here. Very few of the jobs require specialized training, and there is no reason why those collecting welfare can't work. I'm not talking about handicapped, or the elderly. I'm talking about the 16-50 yr olds who do nothing but sit around collecting. Let them collect the wages the Illegals were getting, and give them a sense of actually giving back to the communities that have supported them.
And if they don't want to work, cut their support.
alleskacke, I agree with you completely. The 2nd amendment was about "forming a militia".
So Ryan in Texas, you want the hospitals to turn people away who might be illegal who are seeking medical care?? Really??? Man that is just mean-spirited not to mention ignorant. The purpose of healthcare providers is to help those that need care, especially those that need it the most! It's not to make a profit, this type of thinking needs to end. Whether the laws need amending is one thing, denying access to basic human needs is something altogether different, and not something we ever want to be associated with in this world!!
From what I understand the 2nd amendment was about forming a militia then afterwards more about being able to hunt for food. At the time, being without a rifle can mean starvation and death. Now that we have an established arms forces and the ability to go to our grocery store to get what we need, over hauling the 2nd amendment would be a great idea.
We are talking about apples and oranges. Women who come to this country specifically to have a baby, while paying all bills from their own pockets are very different from babies born to parents in the US illegally. Birth tourism has the potential of returning young adults that are above the poverty level and may actually have a K-12 education that will qualify them for the schools that have tuition's well above what will be paid by our government. These children have the potential to raise the educational bar for all American children and improve our standings in subjects like math throughout the world. Most of those that choose to stay after completing their education will be contributing citizens.
Lets put our moral indignation where it belongs. How can we change the fate of those current American children benefited by programs like "no child left behind" and broad funding without any academic benchmarks, that are currently flooding American higher education.
As far as our Hispanic population, specifically the illegal immigrants, trying to solve the problem of those already in this country before stopping the influx, is really backward! Although the economy and unemployment has at least helped that problem. In fact we have American citizens trying to figure a way to get into other countries for the work.
Oh well have another cup of tea and polish those shotguns some more! Logic and humanity will never win the day!
This is total BULL $HIT! Come on Obama, you love to use your power of executive order, make these babies citizens of the country the parents come from, NOW!
These Chinese mothers pay their own expenses, are well-to-do, then take the kid back home. Maybe the kid will want to return some day and attend college here, as some math/science brainiac - what's not to like? And as someone pointed out, this is a very small percentage of births in the big immigration picture. Fix the current laws, don't try to prevent the well-to-do immigrants from coming, or having to do dumb tricks like leave their families at this time of joy in their lives and go to a "birth center".
Geez, I had my whole family in and out for months when having kids, and certainly my husband was there - these ladies shouldn't have to do this.
Not only will these babies grow up in another country, they will be able to come to America as an adult and possible be President. They will be able to buy as many guns as they have money for and will be able to do as the illegal's doing in this country already, live off every Tax Paying American! Change our 14th Amendment now! We don't need anchor babies or illegal's using their SS Cards to do what ever they want. Put our date of birth or some form of ID on SS Cards or stop using them for ID. SS# use by anyone other than the owner should be a crime! This Country is F#%& up. You don't see people trying to invade China, Iran or any other country why are we letting it happen here? If your parents aren't American's you shouldn't be either! At least not tell you're 18 and then only if you do it legally. No one should walk across the border and think they are here legally! What is going on in this country is total destruction of American laws. No one should be able to pick which laws (Federal Laws) we obey and which ones we don't, not even the President. Our President takes an oath when he accepts his job, if he can't do it he should resign!
Every pregnant non-citizen in this country should be required to leave the country before giving birth.
Well...apart from the fact that this Chinese "brainiac" - LOL, (sorry) - that you refer to would be taking the space that rightfully belongs to a child of American citizens, there is nothing not to like...nothing at all
Of course, if you are an illegal immigrant, you get the same benefit...at no cost!
Stop the Insanity!
Well robbo - in case you missed the news - America is not exactly "full up" with math/science kids. We are woefully lacking in those - so, if the kid would have come here anyway in 20 years, his momma has just cut to the chase and paved the path for him/her to bypass our currently dumb immigration laws. Asians are very practical - I have several in my family now, so I know.
Lundy - You can give them care but turn them in to immigration to have them deported. There is nothing wrong with that.
But no, Hospitals do not exist to provide free healthcare. Even the Charity Hospitals still get money from taxpayers.
People need to eat, but just because you are hungry doesn't mean you can steal food from the grocery store or eat a meal at a restaurant and not pay.
If you tried that, you would go to jail.
And healthcare should be no different. If you can't pay, then you still owe the money. If Gov't is going to reach into someone else's pocket to pay for you, so be it.
But if you are here illegally, they can't just make payment arrangements.
So they need to be turned in to the authorities for deportation.
So the illegal gets the care, then the boot.
But think about it, if a hospital knowingly doesn't report an ongoing crime like child abuse or illegal residency - they are becoming part of the crime through a cover up.
Hey Cassandra, the "news" is that proficiency in math and science are not the exclusive province of the Chinese in particular or asians in general
the fact is that we certainly need to revamp our educational system to stop pandering to the lowest common denominator and those who talk the loudest while blaming their kid's dismal performance on the school and/or teacher
but that's no excuse to make it easier on those who cheat and bend the rules to their advantage...as some asians (and here I'm talking about the Chinese in particular) are so adept at doing
hs,
You made your point well.
This is an easy "problem" to rectify.
If any non-U.S. citizen woman enters the U.S. and she is pregnant - then if she gives birth while present in the U.S. - the baby will retain the citizenship of the originating country of the mother.
Our politicians are too cowardly to address and resolve this issue - for fear of being called xenophobic.
America is struggling to feed, educate and provide health care for our own citizens - who without schemes and shenanigans - were naturally born in this country.
We can not swing our door open to the world - to "take care of the world."
...and I am all for helping foreign countries who are in need of financial assistance concerning natural disasters, wars and who need financial and technological aid to develop their country's infrastructure.
However, we must put our own citizens - first.
The comparison between the 14th and 2nd amendments is not a fair one. I agree that the 14th amendment is outdated in the sense that it was created to rectify a situation that no longer exists, and is now being exploited. OTOH, the 2nd amendment is still relevant. Examine it again; it states that people owning weapons are necessary for Militias, which are necessary for a free and secure State. Militias in their original sense may be outdated, but the concept of ensuring freedom and security through the threat of force is not.
This has to STOP..change the laws. The law should be one of the biological parents has to be an American citizen even if the child is born on American soil. If not then the child is not an American citizen ( the new born had no choice..so its not like the new born wanted to be an American citizen)!
They fly here have a baby, then fly back to their own country. Now that baby grows up to hate America and becomes a terrorist..but allowed into the USA because he/she was born here!
@ JD in SD (# 1.17) who stated:
Unless the visitor has Diplomatic Immunity, they are subject to the laws of this country. If they drive drunk, kill, rape, they go to jail - and then get deported. The only "Laws" visitors are not fully subject to are paying taxes and leaving the country on time. The last time I checked, it is not illegal to give birth in this country.
If they need to go to the hospital, they get a bill (paid before they leave the hospital) - most pay for health insurance coverage before they visit the US.
Pyngwyn, I am not against the 2nd Amendment, but in my opinion your argument is flawed. If firearm ownership were necessary to ensure "freedom and security though the threat of force", that contradicts the military's oath of protecting against all enemies, foreign and domestic. In a domestic uprising, the military, by oath, will harshly put down the armed uprising, so I am not sure the government would be afraid of an armed uprising that a few guns owners could bring.
Time for our "elite" Congressional representatives get a SPINE and change this ancient amendment.
If that happened, expect to see a termination of "anchor babies" and the City, State, and Federal costs of supporting them, their Illegal parents, and more than likely some of their relatives, would DRAMATICALLY decrease.
Here comes the Liberal, get everything free, counterattacks.
Wait a minute.....our elected representatives cannot agree to agree to anything.
Confussed-1578043, This is not a dicatorship, Obama can not just give out executive orders because you thinks he should. We live in a democracy, so congress and all the people get to decide. You must have a problem with Obama being President, because women from other countries have been coming here for years to have their babies. Texas and California, are notorious for that, should we have blamed Bush, hell no, they were not his babies and the hospitals delivered them so let's blame them. We live in a democracy, so executive order or not, Obama will have let the people decide. I'm sure you are smart enough to see that's what he does. He goes around the country talking to the people and getting their point of view. All president's can use executive powers, if need be, but except for war time it is seldom used. Obama is no. 44, in the president's line, have we not afforded all the rest the same opportunity we have Obama???? I know we have, and we did not raise any "Hell" in doing so doing so. We could, as a nation, do so much better if we took the time to think and treat every person regardless of race, or religion, the same way we would want to be treated. Yes, it would be hard, but them it is hard for us to be considerated the most powerful nation on the face of the earth, too.
Much ado about nothing -- These people are paying their way. They're not taking advantage of free medical care or any such thing and the percentage of paying customers is so small as to be negligible. However, if they want to take advantage of our educational system for which we, as permanent residents pay and have paid taxes and they have not, they should be made to pay into the system.
Susi-Oh,
I think you are contradicting yourself. First you say
Then you say
So which is it? Are they paying their way and this is "nothing" or are they taking advantage?
If you read the article, many of the advertisements emphasize being eligible for consideration to elite schools as U.S. Citizens and the grants and other financial aid that goes along with it. There's no obligation to pay 21 years worth of taxes. And then they will line jump in front of others seeking citizenship or permanent residency. Is citizenship only about who can pay for it?
Again citizenship should mean more than the coordinates where one was born.
An interesting ASIDE about the 14th Amendment! At the time of its passage, and beyond, Native Americans were not included and not considered citizens. There were some exceptions to this rule too complicated to go into here, but generally speaking they were denied citizenship in the territory which their ancestors had inhabited for tens of thousands of years. There were, of course, many disadvantages to this status, but some advantages as well. One advantage being that during WW I they were not subject to the draft. However, so many Indians volunteered and served so well that after the war, congress changed the law and granted them citizenship. ----- Live long and prosper!!!
If you read the records of the speeches made by the ones who drafted the 14th amendment you would see that it wasn't supposed to include tourists. The 14th amendment has been perverted to something outside it's original purpose and goal.
army-3854635,
(First, as I was writing my response, I realized that there may be some confusion over the word "State." In the 2nd Amendment, I believe that it's meaning is that of the People comprising the State, being separate from the Government. As the Government has grown, the meaning of State has shifted to an emphasis on Government. I'll use more precise wording below.)
As you are not against the 2nd Amendment, I am not against the military. That said, the military is a tool of the Government. As long as the People and the Government are in some sort of agreement, this isn't a problem. But if they become opposed to one another, the military will obviously side with the Government (As much as the People and the Government are currently in disagreement, though, we are nowhere close to the point where bullets should be flying!). The point isn't for the People to be able to defeat the military, but for the People to have the threat of force at their disposal in order to prevent the Government from taking the revocation of liberties too far.
The 2nd Amendment is less about facilitating an armed uprising than it is about preventing the Government from creating a police state. It's easier to subjugate by force a people who do not have a means of retaliation. Of course the People couldn't win in all-out, total war against the Government, but I have enough faith in the honor and morals of our servicemen and women that I don't fear that particular scenario.
So, when I maintain the 2nd Amendment is to ensure the freedom and security of the State, I mean the People, as opposed to the Government.
With all my raving about the 2nd Amendment, I guess I need to be ranting about the 14th. :-)
JS in SD made a good point; it says very clearly in the text that one of the conditions of citizenship is being subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. While this should legally rule out this brand of "drop-in, drop-out" Birth tourism, it has no bearing against the "Mexican anchor baby" syndrome.
At the same time, how exactly is it determined whether or not a child is subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S.? I guess that's why there is a specific statute pertaining to citizenship at birth.
[An aside- I apologize profusely for my use of "it's" when I meant "its" in #1.45; I'm a Grammar Nazi]
"The hefty price is worth it, according to these women, because it paves the way for easy access to American public schools, universities and jobs as the children get older and green cards for the whole family once the child turns 21."
In California, it hardly costs anything - the prospective mothers from Mexico just stay with friends and relatives, get free pre-natal care at taxpayer expense, then get welfare for the 'American child', plus get to eventually have free residency for their whole family when the 'American citizen' turns 21.
Such a deal. A few hundred Chinese per year is nothing compared with the hundreds of thousands from Mexico each year. Currently, half of all births in California are from illegal immigrant parents.
One way or another they will come, How do you stop population growth/migration unless you have War...I agree with you but still won't vote Republican my time is spent with them.
alleskacke,
The 2nd is about giving individuals the ability to defend themselves from the monsters among us, and from gov tyranny.
This citizenship by birth does nothing to protect people from life or death (unless someone comes from a war torn country) as guns do.
When studying the fall of the Great Roman Empire, similarly you see that they gave away land and titles to non-Romans in the years before the collapse of the Western empire.
The titles to Roman citizenship were given in exchange for services rendered--often military service. America does this as well. Fast track to citizenship can be attained by joining the US military. Do you also want to end citizenship for those who are willing to lay down their lives for our country when most Americans would not?
"Living off tax paying Americans"
Confussed, these are not kids who are likely to come back and "live off the tax-payers". They are from wealthy homes, where education is a priority, and the majority seem to be Asian, where the families would be extremely shamed by any child trying to do that. These people want to give their children opportunities not available in their native countries. Seems to me that's how our country was founded. These kids, if they come back, will be highly productive citizens, not welfare bums. Please get your facts straight before spouting off. A little common sense should have told you what is so obvious to many of us.
I think we should revoke citizenship of people invoking ridiculous statements about the meaning of the constitution.
NBC News gained access to four birth tourism centers in the New York City borough of Queens. The owners, all women, said they know their industry is controversial, but they hope it will soon be recognized and supported by the U.S. government.
It might be if Obama wasn't up for re-election, hopefully the next President will address this problem of skirting our immigration laws.
You mean like the great Ronald Reagan did with Amnesty? Or Bush II with his Guest Workers progam?
Look back - the Republicans did more to open these floodgates than Democrats
Your anti-Obama slip is starting to show. I know women from the Caribbean and other Latin American countries that's been coming here since the 1970's to give birth to little Yankees and then returning to their respective countries.
Since the time of Jimmy Carter; but you wait until now to blame President Obama; again your anti-Obama slip is showing.
Maybe you should just stop shaking your head to think straight.
Yeah, well. People who like to smoke pot hope it'll one day be legal and supported by the government too. But it's not. These people should be treated just like any other criminal who's flagrantly violating laws for their own profit.
The 1986 amnesty was Ted Kennedy's idea, and strictly enforcing existing immigration laws from then forward, promised by the Simpson-Mazzoli Act, was supposed to be part of the deal. So Reagan (who later said it was the biggest mistake he made) and Congress (Dems and Repubs alike) went along and gave amnesty to almost 3 million illegal aliens, sending the message, that if you can steal in and stay long enough, the Americans will reward your illegal acts by giving you amnesty. How strong was that message? We now have 4 times as many, or more, wanting amnesty.
So, let's give these 12 million illegals amnesty and in another 20-25 years it will be 48 million wanting amnesty. Does that sound like a good idea to anyone?
@ hs321
Yep, and Reagan still passed it. Reagan had the veto power...he passed the amnesty bill without any of the enforcement anyway...he wanted to win Latino votes away from the Democrats who usually have an easier time courting the immigrant communities.
The US is now the only developed country that does this free-citizenship for popping out a baby.
Rather than attracting educated professionals who are law abiding and responsible, they have to spend thousands and wait years to even qualify for a citizenship application. Meanwhile, poor, virtually illiterate (even in Spanish) farm-hands and laborers stream over the borders with their pregnant wives and girlfriends and start popping out little social-welfare machines.
Illegal immigration doesn't only negatively effect the US, it also negatively effects the countries that have these emigrants. Mexico and Honduras for example reap billions of dollars annually from remittances (i.e. money transfers back over the border) and this creates a dependency the keeps their own countries from improving.
I feel for the plight of people that are fleeing tyranny and oppression...it's part of Lady Liberty's motto. But nowhere on that scrawl does it say:
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to exploit an exchange rate difference and leach off of social welfare programs while working under the table and avoiding paying any taxes"
or
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to make a lot of money under the table and dream of the day they go back to the rathole they crawled over from and live like a Patron"
I want people in the US who want to be Americans...period...end of statement
seriously,
I haven't researched it but I know Canada does. The UK doesn't make you a subject, but you do have right of abode, with citizenship if you meet residency requirements (basically a green card). Haven't looked at what other countries in europe do.
Quite frankly, it isn't as big a problem as people make it out to be. Immigration will generally prevent someone who is visibly close to due date from even entering the country as a tourist, so that means that they would have to enter the country for a long period of time prior to delivery. Tourist visa's are generally for 6 months, so it isn't a big issue that people will travel to the US to just have their baby.
Illegal immigration is a different issue, but that is far more complex and even there, anchor babies isn't that big of a problem.
One thing for sure shown by this behavior, America is not a despicable country as the Liberals claim. If they were right no one would want to risk everything and pay so much to have their child born here. That they do is proof positive of the goodness and desirability of a being an American and a refutation of the Liberal criticism. The problem is everyone can't be one. These people need to remain in their countries and bring about the adoption of the principles upon which America was founded - free enterprise, freedom of speech, press, religion, etc. Then they can have " America " where ever they are and won't need to come here.
Maybe Obama didn't start it, but he's doing nothing to help curb it. He's more worried about the Hispanic vote than doing the right thing. He's doing what's best for him, not for us.
Obama won't do anything because his own aunt has been living in Boston Illegally, in public housing since around 2002. Her plea for the right to be here because she was afraid of going back to Kenya was denied a # of times. Until it became headline news of course. NOW she's here legally, because as Obozo's aunt, she will be threatened if she goes back.
Of course the President had no play in this. He wouldn't lie to us. yeah right.
"You are all missing the point that they are leaving once the child is born. They are taking them back to China (in this case) to grow up Chinese. They are paying for the hospital stay with cash. All they are really doing is giving their child an opportunity they would not otherwise have in the future. There is no drain on the US taxpayers here."
Army must have missed this part of the article. "Some of the Web sites blatantly advertise the advantages of free public school in America, a chance to get grants to colleges like Harvard and Yale, and an easier path for the whole family to get green cards once the child turns 21."
I think Obama also had an Uncle or half brother who snuck on over as well. He suddenly became a legal citizen over night. Maybe this is why he's so reluctant to do the right thing. Again, his decisions are solely for his own gain, not for the betterment of the country.
For those Obama supporters, be careful that he doesn't decide that inconveniencing you would be beneficial to him. He'd think nothing of putting you out. He's all about himself at all costs. He's shown this a few times before.
Nick - don't confuse them with the facts. Sigh.
Which "facts" am I confusing? Are these birth tourists abusing the spirit of the 14th Amendment or not?
The unfortunate truth is the government won't do anything about this since both ruling parties are too busy Hispandering for the 2012 elections.
Steve, Don't forget Carter letting Cubans come into Fl. in the early 80's. We were sure lucky to get those rapists, murderers and mentally unfit. As far as GW Bush, those guest workers are now on the verge of being sent back to their country of origin. The program was only temporary.
The Cubans came flooding into Miami and now it's more like Little Cuba. They squeezed out the legal US citizens and took over. I've been there, you'll be hard pressed to find any that speak English, they play the Cuban national Anthem, many are anti American, the place has gone from nice to dump in many places. You can't work there because nobody will speak to you in english. What the hell was Carter thinking? That's what happens when you take a peanut farmer and make him your leader.
There is absolutely no bad thing that can happen during birth to the mother or baby that these people do not deserve.
Oh bloggit, that's just great, wish ill upon one of those babies born here. THEN the taxpayer will be on the hook for a medically fragile infant, you can better believe it. How idiotic, besides cruel.
@ Jonathan-2055273
How does the UK handle people working without authorization to work? My understanding is they take a pretty dim view of those that work under the table, and the Europeans have the Roma to deal with.
Um, I'd say you are under-estimating. I have lived all my life in Southern California. Born and raised in areas that were rife with illegal aliens and "clown houses"
I know first hand what illegal immigration does to a neighborhood, a community and a city. It is detrimental. Here are some of the major factors:
Those were just the issues that directly affected me as a kid. There are tons of greater financial and legal concerns beyond that as a whole and amounts to more than 14 billion/year in California alone.
Just as a disclaimer, I have friends whose parents were/are illegals. I have no problem against the people who are illegals...many of them are very kind and welcoming...and if you can speak Spanish fluently, the restaurants and stores in SoCal barrillos have some amazing cooking and will give you stuff that's not even on the menu that would blow your mind!
But I can also account first-hand for the mentality. Many dream about making a load of cash and hitting the road home. Many of these people don't identify themselves as American, they don't raise their children that way either, nor have any inclination to BE American. Many of these illegals aren't the Irish and Italian immigrants from the 19th century fleeing famine and tyranny.
Many of these people are simply hard-working interlopers, exploiting an exchange rate difference and the cost-savings of working under the table while collecting social benefits.
The parents who are both born in the USA can have a baby in China and that baby is still a US citizen..but not a Chinese citizen.
Think of all the famous movie stars today that are having their children born in France or other countries outside the USA...why they do it who knows, but they are still a US citizen (the new born).
That's why the Republicans would be foolish to compromise with the DemonCrats.
You will get blamed for their bad ideas 20 years later.
Besides, we tried it their way for 80 years. It failed and Gov't is nearly broke with not much to show for it.
Time to go back to Constitutional Gov't.
That lives within it's means.
And understands handouts are for emergencies, not people's whole lives.
At least these women are here legally and focused on educating their children, unlike the illegals for whom we are paying hospital bills, welfare, housing, and higher insurance rates because they do not bother to have car insurance, etc. Fortunately for us, scholarship is one of the highest tenets of Chinese culture. If these babies come back as citizens, they will be competing with the Chinese scholars who currently populate our research labs on post-doctoral studies. And BTW, if the US is so hard on the rich, how come the rich want so much to come here for the opportunities? We could do worse than encourage this population from the east.
What is the problem? These are WEALTHY people!! We need these kinds, not the scumbags who sneak in from Mexico and use government services!!!
Seriously
Deportation, like most other countries do.
Anchor babies are a different problem from the issue of illegal immigration. It implies that people are coming into the US specifically to have a baby, then to go home. This is very different from an illegal alien coming in to the US to work and end up starting a family.
I know first hand what illegal immigration does to a neighborhood, a community and a city. It is detrimental. Here are some of the major factors:
I would expect this to be the case. Would you call the police if you expected to be discovered as an illegal?
That is the same issue with poverty in general.
If the child's parents are working, they are in some way contributing. I am wondering if you would prefer that these children grow up illiterate.
It sucks getting hit by a drunk uninsured US citizen, That put me in the hospital and killed my fiance. So remind me how that doesn't suck
This is the reality for a lot of people, illegal or legal aliens, not sure what the illegal part has to do with anything.
Look, I am not saying that immigration isn't an issue that needs to be resolved, but that is a FAR bigger and more pressing issue than anchor babies. The fact is that the number of people that are coming into the US JUST to have their baby isn't that big of an issue. Focussing on it is good optics, but really bad policy, because you are taking away focus from issues that are of much more pressing need. You know, like comprehensive immigration reform.
Agreed, I definitely got side-tracked on the illegal immigration aspect of anchor babies as it is not part of this article...but read down my comment, it is a very relevant part of the subject.
Indeed. But as a function, because illegals are less likely to call the police than law-abiding residents would, it allows low-life miscreants to also move in, which detriments everyone, legal resident or otherwise. Much like a weak immune system allows an infection to get out of hand.
Not really. People in poverty don't necessarily work under the table, and those who make use of such social services, but drive around in Escalades, etc. should be doing time in prison for fraud!
People who are simply poor are on the radar and their income is typically documented and their employers are responsible for the pay, general safety and welfare of their workers. Illegals cost the state disproportionately when they are injured because the employer is able to pass on the cost of both having a safe work-environment, paying a prevailing market wage, and taking responsibility for their laborer's injuries onto the state/city/county by way of ER-visits, welfare/WIC/foodstamps, etc.
Additionally, anchor babies typically can qualify for greater benefits than typical legal resident poor people because the former has no documented income while the latter does. Most social benefits only max out for those who are in crippling poverty...you'd be surprised what the threshold is to be able to receive maximum benefits if your family's income is documented.
It pays more to cheat the system...like it or not.
The child's parents are working under the table, tax free, they typically buy their consumables in cash and shop in stores in the barrillo that don't report cash earnings. Compound this with the cost-per-head of each student that schools must bear...which side takes the greater expense? Is there a net gain in all of this? When public schools are funded by property taxes and headcount, what happens when you have headcount, but lower property taxes because single-family residences are now supporting many more people than intended? What are the added costs for those additional teachers to meet the headcount?
That's not a fair assumption. Knowledge is power and an informed populace is an asset while an uneducated and ignorant one is a detriment.
I don't want schools to turn away children, legal or otherwise, just like I don't want hospitals to turn away the injured/unwell just because they can't prove legal residency.
I do however want to crack down on employers of illegals, as they are the primary reason why many illegals are in the US in the first place. The US saw a drop in illegal immigration during the rise of the recession because jobs were drying up for them. If that's not a perfect case-study for showing how removing jobs for illegals deters a significant proportion of illegal immigration, I don't know what is.
The point is, that if illegals aren't coming in, they are not having/bringing kids that will be enrolled in public schools. Those seats can be left available for legal residents, or classroom sizes can shrink so that education is better for all remaining students.
I wasn't aware of that, I'm terribly sorry. I hope that the offender was charged for 1st degree murder, as it takes prior planning and a conscious decision to get behind the wheel drunk, especially with not having any insurance.
Pardon me for making a point off of this. Did the offender disappear off into Mexico without a trace? It happened to my parents on each of the occasions. How do you pin down someone for damages when they have no record of existing in the country?
Legal immigrants that want to become US citizens are more deliberate and operate by the books. They might stay in the US until they retire. In any case, that's their prerogative, because their work in the US has been legitimate and they've contributed a share to the society as mandated by law. Illegals can and sometimes do have the same mentality, but they do so under the fabric of our laws, but enjoy all of the same benefits...it's not an equal give/take by a long-shot no matter how you parse it.
Missing the forest for the trees. The 14th Amendment is a key foothold that is used to access ALL of the major social benefits and advantages available to American citizens. Whether people stay in the country after they make use of the 14th Amendment is further insult to injury.
How many people would illegally emigrate to the US if they could not access all of the social benefits like low income housing, welfare, WIC, aid to families of dependent children, etc. through their child's SSID? Sure, they'd still be able to visit ER's and enroll their kids in public school...but it would end there.
They're not necessarily wealthy ... only wealthy enough to afford travel. It is the principal though that people manipulate our system and this is just one more way that it happens.
Tomorrow, Monday October 31, 2011, the 7 billionth person will be born somewhere on the planet. The resources of the world are strained. Basic human necessity, water, food, shelter are scarce to at least 1 billion there are 2.6 billion on the planet that are impoversihed and the number grows at a staggering rate. The population of the world has grown by more than 1000 percent in a little more than 120 years and in the last decade added 1 billion ... 1 to 1.3 billion added to the world every 10 years! And where do they all want to be? Where the resources are relatively plentiful and that is right here in our hemisphere and more precisely in our relatively stable and safe country.
The old saying that "charity (love) begins at home" is relevant. We should take care of our own people and then hopefully be able to influence and spread our success to other countries as time goes on. But if we don't safeguard our nation we will be overrun in a matter of decades. Right now there are 25 million illigal aliens in our borders, 10 percent compared to the estimated legal populace. We should allow as many quality aliens into our country as [possible and we shoudl do everything we can to keep out those who do not contribute to the future success of our nation... It is about time this country was run like the business it is. If the "business" of the USA fails because we are usurped by surges in population that have an agenda to take take and keep taking we will be powerless to maintain our balance.
This is one thing that the US Congress should heed before they criticize China by the way for China's population and growth policies. We need to clean our own house before we tell them what to do.
Actually, seriously, you're wrong. USA is not the only "developed" country to do that. My ex-husband was born in England, of American citizens. He grew up having dual citizenship up until he had to give up his British citizenship in order to join the Air Force.
Britain has a birthright citizenship? I wasn't aware?
Can you provide a link? It looks like one of the parents has to be a British citizen in order to be able to pass down citizenship to a child. And that there are some complexities if the parents aren't married, the child is not automatically a British citizen until the parents do marry and the citizen-spouse applies on behalf of their child to the Home Secretary.
Acquisition_of_British_citizenship
Pardon the Wiki article, but it looks legitimately sourced.
According to the article, it is possible to become a naturalized British citizen without having a British parent, but it seems to follow relatively closely to how the US handles that matter as well...I do not see anything about birthright citizenship...but I do see something about a child born of EEA-citizens before year 2000 can be a British citizen.
I'm curious to see your backup
I wonder how many of the Nazi extremists complaining about this have ancestors who received THEIR citizenship just because they were born here...
My ancestors didn't show up a week before the birth of their children simply to get in on the freebies. they came to make a life for themselves and their family. That isn't the case here.
Typical liberal - "wondering" about the past in order to fabricate a self-serving lable and judgement of others while ignoring reality and refusing to fix problems.
Thanks DoubtingThomas for your very useful and relevant contribution. (sarcasm)
I'ts a good thing you noted your sarcasm pjam, otherwise your conservative friends would have been confused.
It's also quite telling that you would equate anti-nazism with liberalism, given that there was no reference to political affiliation. You and your tea party ilk should come out of the closet and carve schwastikas into your foreheads so that decent people can recognize you.
Doubting Thomas:
It's nothing short of disgusting to read people comparing the Nazis with people here who are speaking out against the "birth tourism" industry. Can you even begin to comprehend the world-changing actions of the National Socialist party of Germany? These people tried to obliterate an entire race of humans through slavery, starvation, abuse and murder. Over 12 million Jews, POWs, Gypsies, homosexuals and political "enemies" were exterminated by the Nazis and you are comparing people who don't want the 14th Amendment abused to these monsters?? Unbelievable.
Jabooby:
You obviously have no understand of the symbolism of the swastika, or the group it represented. Your comment is almost as disgusting as Thomas'.
mmr, it's about time someone mentions the other groups of people killed by the Nazis. Most of the time, only the jews are mentioned. Thank you!
As a Palestinian I've always been told to keep an open mind, not to discriminate against others, not to be too nationalistic, that people all around the world have a right to our land even if they come here without our permission. Well, I'd like to turn the table and tell Americans the same thing.
How do you like it now?
This topic irritates me. The world is different today, this loophole needs to close.
who cares ... 10s of thousands of dollars? Are we worried about people who can spend 10s of thousands of dollars to get this done? Seems to me like there are other areas of us border gaps that need to be addressed before we worry about the worlds wealthy getting citizenship by manipulation.
People pay thousands to sneak across the border. Every cent they have... This is what we want? No way in hell.
downwithplutocracy - so what you are saying is that it is OK for the wealthy to drop their kids from the womb on US soil. The United States then is something that CAN be bought and sold. And then our own poor should just be thrown under the bus???? Money talks...... To my way of thinking ANY potential citizen should have to go through what our ancestors did.....or go the Hell home.
This is actually more about making it easier to escape china than sneaking into USA.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
WELL I THINK AMERICA HAS OVER DONE THIS!
Wilberta -- Times and circumstances change and we must too.
This is an OUTRAGE!!!! How dare they inject tens of thousands of dollars into OUR BROKEN ECONOMY in the short space of a few months while committing an ENTIRELY LEGAL ACT!!!! People like this make me sick! They're supposed to spend tens of thousands of dollars on paperwork over a period of years, not put it directly into the economy where it would actually benefit people instead of being squandered by the government! How dare they pay to take up space in OUR hospitals, when they could take their filthy money and spend it on some third world economy! And for what? So they can send their kids to live here later on as productive citizens? It's a travesty I tell you! These kids are going to get the best education money can buy whether it's here or in some other country, so I say they should grow up to be the engineers, doctors, lawyers, and otherwise productive and profitable citizens of SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!
KathyKramer said:
The United States then is something that CAN be bought and sold.
Yes it is. Land is for sale. Homes are for sale. And if you have the money you can buy a visa and citizenship papers--$5,000 is the current going rate from the initial application to visa and work permit, and $10,000 for the rest of the journey to a naturalization certificate and official citizenship.
To my way of thinking ANY potential citizen should have to go through what our ancestors did.....or go the Hell home.
I don't know if they make those old wooden ships anymore, and I'm also fairly certain that if today's immigrant landed at Plymouth Rock they would certainly NOT be allowed to start cutting down the nearest trees for a fort as defense against the natives who are already here.
Now, if you happen to be African-American, and/or can trace your ancestry back to the slaves--then yes, some immigrants are already going through what your ancestors did, it's called human trafficking.
And victims of human trafficking are undocumented and treated the same as the criminal illegals who brought them in because neither ICE nor the mjority o Americans distinguishes between 'undocumented' or 'illegal'. For these modern-day slaves it's deportation camps for years, orange jumpsuits and shackling, penalized at every turn because they don't speak English, cleaning toilets with bare hands, fed food with maggots in it and not given eating utensils, toothbrushes, soap, towels, showers or even clean clothes, abused and raped in these deportation camps without the right to protest, the right to see a lawyer or free legal help or even make bail or bond.
If someone presents at the US border and says "I'm seeking asylum" they're automatically escorted to ICE detention too.
KathyKramer said:
The United States then is something that CAN be bought and sold.
Yes it is. Land is for sale. Homes are for sale. And if you have the money you can buy a visa and citizenship papers--$5,000 is the current going rate from the initial application to visa and work permit, and $10,000 for the rest of the journey to a naturalization certificate and official citizenship.
To my way of thinking ANY potential citizen should have to go through what our ancestors did.....or go the Hell home.
I don't know if they make those old wooden ships anymore, and I'm also fairly certain that if today's immigrant landed at Plymouth Rock they would certainly NOT be allowed to start cutting down the nearest trees for a fort as defense against the natives who are already here.
Now, if you happen to be African-American, and/or can trace your ancestry back to the slaves--then yes, some immigrants are already going through what your ancestors did, it's called human trafficking.
And victims of human trafficking are undocumented and treated the same as the criminal illegals who brought them in because neither ICE nor the mjority o Americans distinguishes between 'undocumented' or 'illegal'. For these modern-day slaves it's deportation camps for years, orange jumpsuits and shackling, penalized at every turn because they don't speak English, cleaning toilets with bare hands, fed food with maggots in it and not given eating utensils, toothbrushes, soap, towels, showers or even clean clothes, abused and raped in these deportation camps without the right to protest, the right to see a lawyer or free legal help or even make bail or bond.
If someone presents at the US border and says "I'm seeking asylum" they're automatically escorted to ICE detention too.
@ KYPIAKOC
And how much do you think these birth-tourists will consume in social program dollars through their child's citizenship? For the low, low price of 10K, these people are able to churn out a new ward of the state.
I doubt that the taxes that this business pays for their services even remotely matches the future burden that these newly minted citizens will have on the country.
If they raise the kid in their home country, it doesn't cost the U.S. taxpayers a dime, nor does it benefit the taxpayer until the child comes back and gets a job and pays taxes. If the parents decide to move here and get jobs so as to put the kid through school, it most likely benefits the taxpayers since they will most probably pay more in taxes than their child uses in the education system. It's a win-win for the U.S. economically speaking.
You're assuming the Chinese government will allow these parents to leave.
Someone said 'why dont these parents just emigrate her legally instead of feding into thisbirth tourism?'
What if they can't? What if the Chinese government is holding a family member hostage to make sure they don't 'defect'?
What if the only thing these desperate mothers can do is ensure their children have a chance at a future somewhere outside Communist China?
@ KYPIAKOC
And if they enroll their kid in US public school?
And when they apply for Pell grants for college?
And when they get preferential treatment for US citizenship applications for their family?
What makes you think that a child raised in another country is going to be interested in living in the US for any longer than they need to?
How much do you think that all costs the taxpayer?
Just because they have US citizenship guarantees none of your scenarios of them being a patriotic, working American pan out. But I can tell you all of the lovely benefits that they could easily apply for like the other 14th amendment-children are used to squeeze out of public coffers.
lol@10,000
Cost me about 50K just to get my E visa. That doesn't include citizenship, or the right to stay.
This business model is similar to one renting-out their season pass to Disney Land to people on Craig's List. Not illegal per se, but incredibly unethical.
Rewrite the 14th amendment. This would even stop the Mexican women from having kids here so that they can stay here.
This is not just the rich, whose children, we assume would at least have job skills and education. I am a bleeding liberal heart, but this is ridiculous. Here is one example, of tens of thousands. Let us call her Sandra, she is jumping for joy as we rent her little "no frills' room with a lightbulb and a fan in third world Belize. The joy is not us, it is her baby boy who just received his US passport in the mail. A few months ago she paid an extended visit to her husband/boyfriend who lives in New York and has a work permit. While there she had their her baby. Oh, and to boot she told us how EASY it is to have a baby in the US, how they pay for everything, even give you food and milk after the child is born. I assured her that for most of us it is not easy to have a baby and the government does not foot the bill!!!!!!I told her we, my husband and I were the ones extending her such service. She had a sense of humor, laughed, thanked us and made sure we stayed safe. So let us propose and follow through with a law, that no child born in the USA can be a citizen unless one parent is a citizen and I don't include having some paperwork as counting.
hoxie:
...I don't include having some paperwork as counting.
I was adopted at eight months from overseas by an Illinois-born Vietnam Vet who spent almost $20k on a legal green card, baby passport, and visa because I had no birth certificate, being an abandoned baby. Dad and Mom brought me here, legally adopted me in the state they were residing, had a birth certificate issued to show them as my parents, then threw everything else away bcause I was now legally their child and they saw no reason to ever tell me I was not.
Then after they die I find out from ICE that even though I'm legal in my state,I am not legal to ICE because they lost the copy of my adoption paper. And because THEY lost that paper I was told I would be deported and not allowed back.
According to your reasoning, that paperwork didn't count. Does my Dad's $20k count? Money that he earned fighting for this country in Nam and Korea?
Like you I am progressive and reading this makes me furious. We need to change the law. This should stop immediately and the 14th amendment having served its purpose after slavery, needs to be repealed during immigration reform. I would bet that at the local level there is something that could be done via zoning laws which I am sure require licensing and inspection for something like this.
Sounds like these folks are exactly the type of immigrants we want; financially secure, educated, and ready to contribute. They are not taking public assistance, but are actually contributing to our economy.
These are the ones we want??
Actually these are not the ones we want; all this does is make it easier for some future dictator to target the U.S. for his/her gain.
Sounds like these folks are exactly the type of immigrants we DON'T want: People who are willing to ignore laws to do whatever they want, to get benefits they know they're not entitled to. The last thing the USA needs in more criminals, wealthy or not.
This number is nothing compared to illegal Mexican immigrants' babies born in USA. Soon USA and Canada will have to make changes to 14th Amendment.
Right Jacqueline and the Drug Cartels have lot's of money too, do you want their kind here having babies?? This just happened in California when a Cartel drug dealers wife went there to have her twins and then went back to Mexico after they were born. How is that for you eh?
I live in an area with a large Asian-American population, as well as folks from many other cultures. I love the benefits all this diverstiy brings. My children enjoy having friends from all over the world.
When will we learn that immigration makes our country stronger?
And the women in this story are not breaking any laws.
If their economic status is that strong, they could apply for visas as investors. As long as they are investing a certain amount of money and creating jobs they can do it legally.
Our immigration laws need to be fixed - right now the wait time to unite families is nuts - the kids could be halfway grown before the paperwork gets sorted out. When I worked with little kids from around the world, but mostly Asia, some little kids from the Philippines were having to wait 4-7 years to join their mothers here - who were now citizens (with a military husband, for example) and had younger half siblings born here. These kids have to wait so long, their connection with their parent is cruelly broken - which is why I'd never agree to a law that breaks up families.
Cassandra said:
Our immigration laws need to be fixed - right now the wait time to unite families is nuts - the kids could be halfway grown before the paperwork gets sorted out.
Here's an article from AP (I can't make the link stick):
On the bulletin posted for September 2010 is an explanation of the different visa categories -- employment-based visas and family-based visas are all based on specific numbers of visas allotted each year for each category and five countries that have a specific visa quota. Mexico is included in that list, as well as China (mainland born), India, the Dominican Republic and the Philippines.
Every category also has a limit to the number of visas that can be issued, but what's more troubling for Wilson and other immigration attorneys in Tucson isn't really the limit on the number of visas, but the backlog that prevents immigration from happening in a timely manner.
Mexico happens to be the most backlogged of all the countries on the bulletin. For example, next month the State Department will look at petitions of brothers and sisters of adult citizens that were filed in January 1994, but if you are from China, they are going to be getting to petitions filed in October 2001. “It's really complicated. When they are talking about the preferences they are talking about the degree to the relationship you have and what preference you are in the visa system. So then let's say you're Mexican and you have a brother or sister in the United States who petitions for you. Here we are in 2010, and they are processing petitions that were filed in 1994. So that's a wait of 16 years," Wilson says.
There are detention camps for what ICE/DHS calls 'unaccompanied minors'; if your parents are legal but you are not--or the documents that prove you are have been lost--you're sent to one of these. Explain to me how we can call ourselves a fair, just, free nation when children as young as 18 months are separated from their parents and held in detainee camps. Because they are minors and undocumented they don't have a right to legal representation even if they could understand what was happening and ask for a lawyer. And because these minor camps are sometimes so far away from their parents it's difficult, if impossible for parents to enlist legal aid to help their child. ICE has no real-time tracking system to see which detainee is in which camp so it can take days, weeks, even months for a parent to track down a child. ICE/DHS can move you without notice from detention in your state to one in another without notifying local authorities, relatives who may be here legally, or any immigration attorneys that may be handing the case.
Actually Evil Eva, the drug cartel leader's wife is a US citizen. She could have had her twins on the moon and they would have been eligible for citizenship. She had them in California because of the superior healthcare, it didn't have anything to do with citizenship. Having twins is a tricky proposition, one can't blame her for wanting the best situation she could find.
Not all immigration makes our country stronger.
People that want to be Americans make our country stronger.
There is a distinct difference between someone merely exploiting our national generosity, institutions and exchange rates and one who comes to the US, wanting to be American.
We don't need parasites, we need patriots
There are many ways to be patriotic. The Chinese (and other foreign investors) own much of the debt that's funding our military right now, while most Americans scream for lower taxes. Who are the real patriots?
Like those nice low interest rates? Thank the very people you are trashing. Their willingness to invest in our bonds is what's keeping us afloat right now. So, why should we be upset when they want to make a much deeper investment in America? We should be thankful.
So the Chinese are patriotic Americans? Are you f*cki*g stupid? The want to own us and if we continue down the path of shipping American jobs to them and buying their cheap labor junk, they will. They come here to perform espionage, get schooled in our universities, and return to china to counterfeit our technology. Low interest rates for who? The banks are tight as hell and not making them available to those who really need it. Of course the 1% get those rates and better.
No Thanks for the Chinese unless they are fellow native born from Chinese immigrants who came here to leave communism and slavery behind years ago.
Stupid because I have an opinion different than yours? It seems the truly unintelligent thing to do is painting all people with the same brush. Believe it or not, many people of non-european ancestry are decent, honest and hard working.
FWIW, I'm far enough away from stupid to recognize the rising powers of the 21st century and the globalization occurring right now.
gerryt said:
If their economic status is that strong, they could apply for visas as investors. As long as they are investing a certain amount of money and creating jobs they can do it legally.
What if they can't 'do it legally'? You're assuming China allows emigration. But if someone's status is that strong China will likely not allow them to leave.
What if these mothers can't escape communist China and this is the only way they can see to ensure their children have a chance to live Communist or live free?
In the US today given our current Immigration laws, if these women present themselves at our border or an ICE office and say 'I'm seeking asylum', they are immediately taken to ICE prison for being an 'arriving illegal'. They can be locked in that prison for years while ICE sorts out the red tape, and women's health care, particularly for pregnant women, in ICE custody is abysmal--Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have put ICE on their s%$t list for the human rights violations.
These women will accept the gilded cage for them but want something better for their children and they are willing to come here and spend thousands and thousands of dollars to try and ensure that. If Chinese society collapses and Communism falls these children will be able to come to the US and beg asylum WITHOUT needing to sit in ICE prison for years.
Nope, China only holds the majority of debt that's held by foreign governments. The vast majority of all held debt is still owned by Americans either through Congressional borrowings from Social Security, as well as the Fed's holdings and lastly the various central banks, mutual funds and insurance companies.
Oh? You mean the taxpayer subsidized low interest rates which are being suppressed so that BofA and other large institutions don't have to compete for deposits, can have instant arbitrage by trading in the open markets and not have to offer an interest on savings that even remotely reflects inflation? That low interest rate? Or are you referring to the one that people could get if they have perfect credit? For the most part, I only see the rates on consumer credit rising incredibly quickly to match all the bank-fees and other BS that uncompetitive businesses can get away with when they can feed from the government teet.
Thank goodness for that low rate, because otherwise all of those institutions that can issue their own debt would have to offer a premium above a reasonable risk-free-rate (i.e. the T-Bill rate...which is largely governed by the Fed's prevailing rate) that isn't ridiculously low. Geez, if GE and Walmart couldn't avoid issuing stock to finance their activities, I think my head would explode!
Um...China buys US debt to peg its currency below the US dollar. They aren't doing it because they're worried about us. They're doing it because keeping their currency suppressed creates an exchange-rate sink-hole that draws international outsourcing and foreign industry onto their soil. And no, their cheap labor doesn't make our products more affordable (Apple, Intel, GE, HP, IBM, etc. don't sell their products at a discount), it only improves the bottom lines of large multinational corporations, that use that money to pad their executive bonuses at the expense of sending as many jobs as they can over seas.
Take a look at US exports every time the US$ drops in value. You want to bring jobs back to America? You want to have a thriving middle class again? How about increasing the Fed Rate to match inflation so that people's savings aren't eroded and US securities offer a return that reflects our productivity!
Take some macro-econ classes...it will open your eyes. The middle class is being ripped off big-time under the guise of "cheap debt that we need". The only entities that need cheap debt are a spend-thrift government and corporations that don't want to dilute EPS because it would dip into executive options packages.
Boo Hoo
I agree with much of what you say. I just don't agree that isolationism is the answer. I also believe its impossible to ignore the emerging powers that are China and India. If the U.S. doesn't find a way to work with the world, the world will leave us behind.
I love my country, but I don't think sticking my head in the sand is the best way to show it. China does what's best for China, India for India, and the U.S will do the same. We just have to figure out what that is.
I'd rather be part of the future than trying to hold on to a vanishing past.
Neither do I. I'm pro legal-immigration. I am anti-illegal immigration.
I think the US needs to revise how it handles citizenship applications, because it is far too cumbersome for people to do it legally, and far too easy just to break the law.
The US also needs to revise how long it takes and how arduous it is for people who want to be American, to become citizens...and how dicey it is to get employers to sponsor people to be able to work in the US long enough to be able to accomplish this feat.
As I said before, I want patriots, not parasites...you don't have to be born a US citizen to be a patriot, and you do not have to be an illegal immigrant to be a parasite...heck, I find that many people that want to become US citizens are infinitely more patriotic than many of the people I know and knew growing up in the US as natural citizens.
Yea this is real important right now.
I don't condone or advocate what these women are doing, but at least they are adding to the economy and paying their way. Not to mention the expensive shopping.
There have been millions of other women that just cross a river and go straight to an ER for free. Well, not free, but on the taxpayer's dime. Just ask any South Western State how it's working for them.
We've all seen these women. Usually about 50lbs overweight with two to four small children, pregnant with another, and a stubborn refusal to learn the English language or teach it to their kids.
These are the ones we need to rid ourselves of. They contribute nothing, but take everything they can get their hands on. These are the women that use their children as an income source. Yes, I do realize there are citizens that do this as well. I can't stand them either.
Kind of like saying a bank robbery wasn't that bad because the robber drove his own car and he paid for the gas in it....
Yeah, the bank robber'll be putting that money back into the economy too. Doesn't make me want more bank robbers any more than this logic makes me want more anchor babies sucking up our very limited health care.
People who break laws should be punished, regardless of how much money they have.
Although these children have American citizenship, many will probably never exercise it. They are already from wealthy families that are established in their "home" countries. They have no need to come to the United States for economic reasons. They may come for educational reasons, but then they will be paying the tuition and fees, or for political reasons.
If they come, they will be spending money, not collecting government benefits. All in all, it sounds like a good thing for the US and our economy.
People who break laws should be punished, no matter how much money they have. Yes they should. But no laws are being broken here. You may not like it but what they are doing is perfectly legal. Is there a flaw in the interpretation of the 14th? Yep. But until that is addressed, there is nothing illegal going on here.
What is the problem? What is the difference? There is a law proposed that someone who buys a >500k house will automatically get a green card. Same idea, America for $$. But dont get me wrong, I dont mean to be cynical: that is how America became great.
Anyone that knows the history of the 14th amendment would know that anchor babies (which is what these are) were NEVER the purpose of it. People like Angela Kelley are purposely distorting the original intent of the amendment and twisting it to fit what they want, not what is good for the country.
This is a major security risk also.
Security risk? You do realize the the US trains soldiers from other countries. I was on a plane from Frankfurt, Germany to the US - the plane was not very full but there were 20 very pregnant Lebanese women on the plane. I asked one why she would risk flying so pregnant, her answer, so her baby would be a US citizen - her husband was training with the US military and this was a planned pregnancy and her trip to the US was paid for by the US military. It happens everyday with almost any nation we deal with - driving a car is a "security risk." If you are so scared of something different, stay inside.
black kettle,
actually the 14th does deal with that. The soldier and the family of that soldier is not under the jurisdiction of the united states (being a member of a foreign military) and therefore would not be eligible to be a citizen. It is the same thing as someone under diplomatic authority having a child in the US, the child wouldn't be a citizen.
If the wife pays for a birth off-base her child is a citizen. If I am completely wrong, please give me the sentence in the 14th Amendment. I understand the:
The wife is not subject in that case, only the father - regardless, if the baby is born at a regular (non-military) hospital, it is an American. The flight is for a "family visit" and paid for by the military - the birth is non-military as long as it is not done at a military hospital.
Black Kettle,
A risk is just that, a small possibility of something happening. Everything is a risk including breathing. But might I remind you that due to the fact that our immigration laws and our borders aren't not truely enforced, we had a situation a decade ago that killed a few thousand of our citizens?
So I guess you don't have a problem with random people from other countries (say... the Middle East) flying into our country, have a baby with dual citizenship, that can come back into the country 20 years from now with no questions asked....
Trying to deflect my point with a story unrelated to what I said proves that you see my point, but are a supporter of this birth tourism.
Birth tourism is not what the 14th amendment is about, nor is it what it was ever intended to be about.
To those people who state...there isn't that many so its not a problem....
You do realize that over time this will create a lot of problems....already the population is too large (not enough jobs) With natural growth of actual citizens, and unnatural growth from anchor babies and illegals it only makes it worse...
give it time....30- 50 yrs...you'll see
AlexM-2364525 - aside from your comment being completely off topic, NO, I do not have a problem with people from the Middle Eastern countries - you are condemning millions of people who have nothing to do with terrorism. What about Tim McVeigh? Does he get a pass from you because he was a good 'ole American boy?
PS: buildings don't collapse at free-fall speed onto their blueprint, it's not a "conspiracy theory" just physics - especially building 7.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc7.html
AlexM-2364525 - I wasn't trying to "deflect" anything - I was simply stating the obvious that the 14th Amendment judicially protects what you call an "anchor baby" -you don't like that fact, that's your opinion. I personally do not have a problem with the 7,400 babies that are born here legally to legal mothers (no matter their country of origin) that little 0.17% (in a year) does not phase me in the least....there are roughly 4 million babies that you would deem acceptable (per year), you should be happy.
Black Kettle,
Every race, religion, political party, etc has their fanatics, you're a prime example of this. Tim McVeigh falls into that category also.
You were trying to deflect since you didn't address my direct point in a thread I started.
Unlike you, my direct alliegance is towards the legal citizens of this country that didn't receive their citizenship through some obvious loophole. Every child that goes to our schools, our colleges, receives our social services, etc that is not a true citizen is taking food out of the mouths that are, is taking education away from those that are, is stealing from those that are.
If you can't see that, then I don't have anything else to say to you.
Not deflecting, until the Supreme Court says otherwise, a BABY born in the US is a US citizen.
I didn't see a thread you started, I responded to ONE post
Fanatic - no
I have no children - if your last argument was true I should not have to pay for the schools in my area, yet I do - without the child tax credit.
Your people really got the shaft from the white men, it is a disgrace what has happened to you and your the only true Americans. All the rest of us are from foreign countries but not you. Now the very people who stole your land won't share it. Who knows one of these immigrants might be the one who finds a cure for cancer.
I have an idea - make the stipulation of citizenship for these "US citizen" children be that they must serve in the US military when they come of age. Bet that would slow this sort of thing down.
How about making all able-bodied US Citizens serve in the military or other public service for at least 3 years before age 28, OR if they are out of the country during part or all of that time, during the first 10 years they reside here as an adult.
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Serving in the U.S. Military is not a punishment, thank you. I would not want someone who is foreign born serving in the military because it's a stipulation for their citizenship. I'd prefer to fight along side someone who is willing to defend the country, not coerced.
Even better, make it universal for ALL citizens. I did my time... did you? Does that make me more a citizen than you?
Let's make all of Congress and children of age in the White House fight in our wars as well.
@DonR - I agree, make something universal. If someone has a disability (medical) that would prevent them from armed services, they can work in country - help Appalachia, plant trees, teach in the inner-city etc.
Hey Kathy...how about your kids serving too? And I'm not talking so BS feel good school project either...real service from real Americans and all that...
I am all for requiring 3 yrs of military servic in order to have full citizen benifits (medicare, SS, student loans.....) for all people (excluding special cases ... disabilities)
Just a reminder--the terrorists who blew up the World Trade Center had paid all the fees and things to be legally here.
Now imagine that we pass this law requiring that anyone who wants to become a citizen serve in our military. That terrorist just got a free pass into our country's military bases and defense systems--imagine one of them walking into Fort Bragg in NC for training; or Parris Island for training, or Quantico for training--and blows it up. What if a group of them coordinate, and all of them detonate at the same time?
I wanted to go into the Army when I was younger. When was in 6th grade I would put on Dad's Army fatigues and march around the house. As I got older and I realized my 20/210 vision would classify me squarely in the 'not suitable' category, I set my sights on being police sketch artist. I even worked to get a scholarship to art school. Then right after my parents died and I graduated high school, I found out I was illegal beause Mom and Dad adopted me (something they NEVER TOLD ME) and ICE had lost my adoption paper and were therefore going to deport me.
After spending three years in ICE prisons and a deportation camp, I got out and tried to find work. Because of that 'former illegal' tag, I was now ineligible for any local,state, and federal job. I was on welfare and food stamps when the Census Bureau came through the welfare office hiring people to go door-to-door, and I got in line with everyone else...and was then rejected because I was formerly in trouble with ICE.
Every employer I apply with from now till the end of my life has to be told I have an ICE file. My background check will come up clean, no arrests, no speeding tickets, not even a parking ticket, but it will show that I have a three-year prison record. When I try to explain that to an employer it takes me an hour to get the whole story out and many won't hire me after that because they don't want to have to deal with ICE in any way, shape or form.
I found a job with my current employer by coming in as a temp; when they hired me they sat through the whole hour-long explanation and then said, 'why is ICE penalizing you for them losing your paperwork?'
I didn't have an answer for that because I don't know either.
By the way, there is a distinct difference between someone coming in for birth or for that matter any other medical tourism who pays his or her own way and someone who knowingly comes in with an expensive medical condition then goes to the local county or charity hospital knowing they won't be turned away.
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The former is actually good for the economy. The latter is only "good" in that it gives us a chance to show that we are a compassionate country. Too many people taking advantage of our compassion tends to make us less compassionate.
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The 14th Amendment was inputted due to the end of slavery and to ensure that children born to slaves would be American citizens. This Amendment needs to go away, with so many undocumented women coming to our country and having not only one but several children under the pretense of this Amendment, it has put a huge strain on our infrastructure. Mexican women are demanding welfare, WIC, cash assistance, as well as recieving FREE delivery services due to not working. While us taxpayers are feeling the brunt of this through our taxes both state and federal. Amendment 14 needs to GO!
Agreed. The whole reason for it no longer exists, since anyone who was a slave or the child of a slave in the USA back when it was written has been dead for a while. The amendment should die with the people it was meant to protect.
I believe that it is a bad idea to tinker with the 14th Amendment. Without the 14th Amendment, Congress can strip the citizenship from any group of people who are currently out of favor. President Roosevelt considered stripping Japanese-Americans of their citizenship during World War II, but was advised that the 14th Amendment prevented it.
Consider your own ethnic or racial background. What if events outside of the United States created the impression in the media and public opinion that your group are all criminals (think Italian or Russian Mafia), pirates, terrorists or worse. Without the 14th Amendment, Congress could strip your group of citizenship just to appease public opinion. Considering the rancor in Congress these days, this is a chillingly plausible scenario.
Bob - well said.
It doesn't need to go away, it just need to be written in simpler terms so that the loopholes that exist today through purposely misinterpertation go away and can't be used anymore.
Thats the sad part, anyone that knows that amendment knows why it came to exist. Yet they misconstrue it to meet their own personal gain.
Maybe some of the more raucous WASP older folk - when it comes to calling for a change to the 14th Amendment - could consider that, in about 50 years (I'll be dead), the majority of the population in the United States will be "some shade of brown". That's per the current demographers.
So don't change an important part of our citizenship rights just yet.... I have some family that would be considered WASPs (although we have Jewish dna, per FamilyTreeDna testing, and some others are a degree of Native American). I don't want those future relatives kicked out somehow - we've been here since 1690 or so, since the Native Americans didn't stop illegal immigration back in the day, and we're kind of used to it, living in the US.
Cassandra,
The problem with people like you are true racists because you're seeing it all in skin color.
I don't see skin color, I have friends of all color and work with people of all color. Color does not matter to me.
What matters to me is how you arrived in our fine country to take advantage of what it has to offer.
It's that..... black and white :)
Alex - you say Cassandra has a problem. You have a problem, she is correct on her demographics and myself, being Hispanic, saw nothing racist in her post.
I do not need the 14th Amendment "dumbed" down in order to read it.
No, it needs to stay the way it is written. If there is some huge problem, the Court can take the case.
This is just another example of how our politicians are undermining the American people's quality of life and how they continue to abuse our citizens in the name of diversity.......they are disgusting....
anchor babies
These are called Pathfinder babies.
A Luxury society like America becomes rotten to the core.
We have called this onto ourselves, like what caused the demise of the Roman Empire.
I'm wondering if the entire issue might be archaic.
Borders. I've always found that concept rather weird. Who owns the earth? Maybe it's time for everyone to open their borders and go global.
And the language thing. Now that is just ridiculous. There is no excuse for not yet having a global language.
Thats very colonial of you. Wipe out all languages except...... which one? Yours?
Go tell that to the ruling bodies in Iraq. North Korea. Myanmar. While we're at it, why don't we mandate they all become Christians. I'm sure it'd go over about as well.
There seems to be some ultra-nationalists posting on this site, telling us they want to immediately change the U.S. Constitution to suit their intolerant beliefs, regarding this one issue. (...Just saying).
rradiko "There seems to be some ultra-nationalists posting on this site, telling us they want to immediately change the U.S. Constitution to suit their intolerant beliefs, regarding this one issue."
Saying the 14th Amendment, which was written to ensure the children of slaves would be granted citizenship, is now being abused by birth tourism, is not an ultra-nationalist point of view. It is a common sense point of view. Just saying...
rradiko,
It seems that there are some extreme ultra liberals on this site telling us to disregard what our Constitution stands for and let anyone and everyone abuse us and our country for their own selfish purpose.
Listen Nick, SLAVERY was over many, many years ago and if that law was meant for that purpose, then it SERVED its purpose. This is 2011 and should be taken off the books........it's just insane and should be kept up with the changing times. I would suspect there is STILL a law laying around that says you get 50 years in prison for stealing a pig!!!!................laws should be kept up to date and this one is WAY past due!!!
Slavery isn't over. Human trafficking is alive and well.
That's very presumptive of you. In fact, I had in mind a new language with words from all the different languages in the world.
I think your knee-jerk assumptions about "wiping out" others is an example of the real problem, and won't be solved by stronger borders.
It's sad that at this late date, we haven't seemed to have learned anything. We still have stupid animals like Bush murdering people for the fun of it and destroying historical artifacts because he personally couldn't care less about them. And we still have no end of other stupid animals willing and eager to do his dirty work for him.
Americans are as ready to commit atrocities as anyone else.
I certainly wouldn't want to spread Christianity. The blood-lust and war-mongering mindset of Christianity is a large part of the problem -- much greater than Islam, for one example.
But these countries you mention -- including Iraq which we just decimated and turned into a breeding ground for terrorists, arguably so that the American people would accept the destruction of the Constitution and civil rights -- are perfect examples of my point.
What do you think the common people in those countries want?
The governments, world over, are the problem. The filthy-rich king in Morocco whose people live in stone huts without hot water, shower, and often even electricity is the problem. Those who lust for power over others is the problem.
That would include our own government, which has turned into the Gestapo before our eyes.
Does it never occur to you that while the government does absolutely nothing to actually secure our borders, it continues to insist we must lose all of our rights in the name of safety -- to the point we can't even use our own airlines to fly domestically without agreeing to being sexually assaulted?
Every single word that you say is true! I protested the war in Viet Nam and will go on protesting any and everything that is wrong. By the way the reporter who wrote this story has a foreign sounding name, maybe we should consider sending her back to where she came from.
This is totally RIDICULOUS!No wonder this country is on the skids.Why in Hell are these people allowed to do this?Why isn't the government shutting these Circuses, down?
Industry controversial? This should be AGAINST THE LAW.This country is going down hill very very fast,and THIS STUPIDITY is part of the problem.
This has got to be the MOST IGNORANT AND STUPID SET UP ON THIS PLANET.SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE AND DONE FAST TO SHUT THIS DOWN!
Ridiculous? These LEGAL babies and their LEGAL mothers accounted for 0.17% of children born in the US (2008). When they are 21, they can decide if they want to come to the US. I'm sure not all will but let's be real, birthing centers are not a huge problem.
4,255,156 babies were born in 2008, so "birth tourism" is not a big deal, and the women are here legally.
0.17% - can we say MINISCULE?
Miniscule for now. Later, when the kid has his 21st birthday, all 45 family members can get guaranteed green cards.
Only IMMEDIATE family members are eligible. So, no, there would not be 45 of them.
Let's not forget the declining American birth rate, we will need these babies to be productive citizens if you expect to get a penny of your SS back when you retire.
Limit the ability to sponsor relatives for visas to those who have lived in the Untied States or its territories for a significant period of time and you'll reduce this kind of tourism.
Normally I disagree with the crackpot protectionists of this country but this article does bring up a problem. I understand over all these women make up a very small minority of immigrants to this country and I understand the reasons we have laws protecting new born infants but something needs to be done to address this problem.
Angela Kelley maybe right but she failed to address the issue of national security, what are the potential of foreign government using these person(s) to spy on US and ferret technology and send all the advanced information back to their home country. There are many instances where naturalized citizen/ immigrants still hold allegiance to their home country due to cultural tie. How much have China gain advantage from having their spies (naturalized US citizen) sending information on technology. Their spaceship, fighter jet is similar to ours. Take the Russian with the busted sleeping spy. Green card immigrants do now pay a penny to SSA and they get SSa benefit after they reach 66. Birth tourism should be outlawed and so do giving benefits to green card immigrants that did not contribute to SSA. Minimum benefit from SSA is about $500 for a contributing working US citizen and non-contributing immigrantgets $400 plus medicare ( taxpayer paid) . After all their sponsor should be hold liable for incurred expenses. The democrats under LBJ started this program of giving benefits to non-contributing immigrants eople over 62 to get their votes
Lately the GOP has brought up some silly topics to address in Congress. So, it's strange to me that I don't disagree with this.
They really are skirting the spirit of the law. Being a Citizen should mean alot more than what longitude and latitude your mother pushed you down her birth canal.
There are kids who were born in Central America and crossed the U.S. Border soon thereafter. They grew up here, went to school here, all they know is HERE, but are not considered Citizens and have sometimes been deported.
Someone explain to me how some kid who was born on U.S. soil to parents who had NO intention of raising him here, who doesn't speak the language, or understand the culture is "American", but the kid born elsewhere but spent 99.999% of his life here is not?
Well, put. I still don't agree that someone who came over here illegally should become a citizen just because they (or their parents) got away with it for years. On the same token, someone shouldn't benefit financially because they managed to buy a plane ticket to this country and squeeze one out while they're on our soil.
It's infuriating that we won't help our own legal citizens, but we do help someone who does something shady like this article portrays. We're presumably the only country on this planet that puts up with this kind of nonsense.
These women are not just from China (as this article seems to imply). The "diversity" that is being driven so much today will be the downfall of the United States. There is no reason for women coming to the United States to give birth except for what the "baby" and it's family will get from the public taxpayers in the future (pointed out in the article). This is a policy that needs to be changed immediately and those babies born to "tourists" have their citizenship revoked. This applies to all babies born to parents who are not citizens of the United States.
Revoking citizenship based on your rules, or my rules, is a very slippery slope. Sure you are up for the ride?
How about basing it on the original intention of the 14th amendment, which was strictly to do with slaves that were already in the country... Not birth tourists, not illegal aliens.
Alex: Not only "tourist babies" and "anchor babies" but there is some question about birth on a airplane (which would make them "air babies") within American airspace! I guess it will come down to if you can spell "America" your baby is considered a Citizen! Just like the Statue of Liberty and it's original intent as being a symbol of America's Freedom, NOT "Give us your huddle masses" which came from a essay and was added to the monument later on, we have allowed true intent to be usurped to the point of being ridiculous....
Better hope there is a grandfather clause then, if we do change the 14th ammendment, or people like Marco Rubio might lose their citizenship.